Let's end this once and for all
geocities(dot)ws
>It's been said that modern Greeks are racially different from their ancient predecessors, having over the centuries mixed with slaves and foreigners, including Negroids, and lost an allegedly Nordic character. The scientific data, however, shows tremendous continuity and near purity among Greeks, as well as a virtual absence of Nordic racial elements since the beginning of Greek history.
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>"It is inaccurate to say that the modern Greeks are different physically from the ancient Greeks; such a statement is based on an ignorance of the Greek ethnic character.... The Greeks, in short, are a blend of [sub]racial types, of which two are most important: the Atlanto-Mediterranean and the Alpine. Dinaricism here is present, but not all pervading; true Alpines are commoner than complete Dinarics. The Nordic element is weak, as it probably has been since the days of Homer. The racial type to which Socrates belonged [Alpine] is today the most important, while the Atlanto-Mediterranean, prominent in Greece since the Bronze Age, is still a major factor. It is my personal reaction to the living Greeks that their continuity with their ancestors of the ancient world is remarkable, rather than the opposite."
WE WUZ GREEKZ N SHIET
>In a sample of 125 Greeks from Thessaloniki and Sarakatsani, 2 Asian-specific mtDNA sequences (M and D) were detected (1.6%). No sub-Saharan African genes were observed in this population. Therefore, non-Caucasoid maternal ancestry in Greece is very low, as elsewhere in Europe.
>In a sample of 366 Greeks from thirteen locations in continental Greece, Crete, Lesvos and Chios, a single African haplogroup A Y-chromosome was found (0.3%). This marks the only instance to date of sub-Saharan DNA being discovered in Greece. In another sample of 42 Greeks, one sequence of the Siberian Tat-C haplogroup turned up. Note that other studies with larger sample populations have failed to detect this paternal marker in the Greek gene pool (e.g. Malaspina et al. 2000; Weale et al. 2001), and that its frequencies are actually much higher in Scandinavian and Slavic populations.
AYY YO HOLD UP
>In this autosomal DNA plot of genetic distances derived from 120 allele frequencies, Greeks fall entirely within the cluster containing Caucasoid populations (upper right corner), wedged between Basques and Northern Europeans, and far away from Africans and Asians:
nice reading comprehension
Where do you think R1a in Greece comes from?
It's interesting because while in the west the main Indo-Euro lineage is overwhelmingly R1b in all it's local variants, Greece has a more important input from the more north-eastern Indo-Euro branch. Could it have come perhaps with Persians?
Maybe the later Greek invaders like the Dorians were in part more related to the Aryan branch?
relax famalam. I'm greek myself
WE WUZ SOCRATES AND SHEIT.
get over it fags, the greeks were mediterranean, nords were savages at this time.
>Maybe the later Greek invaders like the Dorians were in part more related to the Aryan branch?
Any advice for a DNA test? Should I take the generic ancestry or save money for Y-DNA? Point is I know most of my ancestry so it might be a waste of money. Y-DNA has some historical value, right?
This is what Greek men look like. They'd fit in quite well in a Mexican soap opera, wouldn't they?
There, I settled it once and for all for you, OP.
>completely ignoring 500 years of ottoman occupation and rape
Ignorance is bliss.
Nobody claimed they were negroid, we claim they're Turkish rape babies.
Which is blaringly fucking obvious if you have eyes and a brain.
but im superior :(
>geocities
is this 1997?
In part yes, some lineages are strongly related to some population expansions in antiquity i.e if you are mostly European in autosomal DNA and have an European clade of R1b, you are most likely a far descendant of one of the Indo-Euro invaders from the early bronze age.
But I'm not sure if it's worthy, it's been so long ago that if you know you are fully Greek, you aren't going to notice a big difference with another fellow Greek with an entirely different paternal lineage as people mixed all around since then. It can be interesting though, consider that you can also check things like how much Neanderthal DNA you have or just check if perhaps you got some genetic diseases or something.
>Mexican soap opera
Bad example because TV personalities in Latin American countries are mostly white.
I went to Greece this summer and all the people looked white, what with this boards obsession is calling Southern Europeans not white?
That's true. I forgot just how preferable white skin is in every culture. You're thought of as literally shit even in Latin American countries if you're dark-skinned.
Do you think pic related is what a "white man" looks like? Because this is what modern Greek men look like. The ancient/modern Greek continuity meme is just that - a fucking meme.
>A recent paper has detected clades of haplogroups J and E3b that were likely not part of pre-historic migrations into Europe, but rather spread by later historical movements. Greeks possess none of the lineages denoting North African ancestry within the last 5000 years, and have only 2% (3/148) of the marker J-M267, which may reflect more recent Middle Eastern admixture.
Yes he does look white, have you forgotten what Mediterrean white people look like or are you one of those tards that think Romans were blonde muh aryan master race autis?
>fuck science and shit, this one guy represents the entire country
>dark hair
>dark eyes
>tan skin
>white
So I guess by this logic even arabs and spics are white.
>I'm supposed to believe greeks were always shitskins with arab hair.
Not a single ancient statue or mosiac look like modern greeks. Fuck your sociology nonsense.
Same with Italy only to a lesser extent. Augustus was blonde and blue eyed, Lucius Sulla was a redhead with freckles, Caesar was "tall and fair" despite spending a lot of time in spain and egypt.
if modern greeks aren't white then ancient greeks weren't white
>The scientific data, however, shows tremendous continuity and near purity among Greeks, as well as a virtual absence of Nordic racial elements since the beginning of Greek history.
He's not a full-blooded greek. He looks like an albanian or bulgarian.
He is 100% Greek and one of their Olympic athletes. You're welcomed to look him up, the name is Kostas Filippidis.
>dark hair
>dark eyes
>not white
Did someone drop you on your head? I cant believe you are one of those retards that think only blonde colored eye people are white, white people have lots of physical diversity and there are greeks with colored eyes as well you stupid fuck. The tan skin is due to something CALLED UV RADIATION YOU STUPID RETARD.
>100% greek
Says literally who? I'm greek and I don't look like a spic like Filippidis.
AYO WIR WAREN KAISER UND SHEIßE
>the ancient/modern Greek continuity meme
You know, we actually have molecular data now thanks to the molecular revolution in biology. Thanks to genotyping studies we now know that there is significant MENA admixture in modern Greek populations, averaging anywhere from 10%-22%. Pic related is one of these genotyping results from a Greek islander.
>Americans trying this hard to defend the honor of Greece
You Greek diaspora m8? Gyro-eating faggot who lives in Astoria by any chance? It's okay mate, you're not white either.
Of course you dont look him because white people have variable physical traits but Greeks do tend to have that sexy Meditterean hunk look as men and exotic mediterrean cuties as women.
Bruh I've been to Italy. Northern Italians are pretty fair, southern and sicilians are almost niggers. There is clearly some racemixing.
Greek Islanders have always had MENA influence. They're fucking islanders.
You can't just say retarded things under the guise of '""muh genetic studies''"" (source?). Some of you are so fucking stupid, christ
>theyre islanders therefore not greek
You know the coastal areas and islands is where most of the greek population live right
source faggot
no reason to suppose so, the history of the peninsula doesn't suggest Italy should've been homogeneous in any period except the paleolithic and maybe the neolithic
there is literally no reason why a mountainous peninsula with different histories of colonization and historical separation shouldn't show heterogeneity
Greek islanders tend to have the higher percentage (values such as 16% in that pic, and even higher up to 22% in other individuals), but Greeks from the mainland still have, on average, 10%+ MENA admixture.
This is your DNA you Turkish rape-baby. You can't handwave it away.
Wrong. Most Greeks live in Central Greece and Macedonia. By islanders, I mean extremely isolated Greek populations (namely Crete and Cyprus).
Stop talking out of your ass
The point is you wuzant romanz
Romans were white, and most migrated north after the fall of the west
May have to do something with the fact that Greece extended to Anatolia for most of its history.
we wuz though, and you have 0 arguments to prove otherwise, like any salty nordinigger eternally jealous of the glory of the ancient Greco-Roman world
Yeah you catch so many salt water fish from inland, you're right. The whole fishing culture of Greece is a meme.
>where are your sources
Seriously lmao, by their logic, Hitler wasn't white or anyone with brown hair or brown eyes. Its a really cancerous way of thinking
>most migrated north after the fall of the west
Source jackass?
Daily Reminder without Greeks all of these Germanic and Nordic faggots would still be dindu tier.
The Romans were actually black people..you do realize that
the Renniasance whitewashed all the ancient roman stuff....
Here's my argument I'm still waiting for yours
Show me a pale freckled redhead full blooded Italian from today
>you cant
>allegedly nordic
lmao
Please give me a source for your nonsense besides 23andme test (lmfao). Most Greek 'Middle Eastern' DNA comes from mischaracterized Hellenic Anatolians (i.e. Pontic Greeks), who were part of traditional greek society for thousands of years.
Stop embarrassing yourself.
I mean, you think that might be why you look like a Turk, Kosta?
Yeah, I think there might be something to that obviously. I could tell you why, but I have a feeling you can figure it out on your own.
I don't look like a Turk though. How do you explain that?
>what is the holy roman empire
>latin culture moving north had nothing to do with migration
>telling a greek his own ancestry
>surely he should listen to a xeno
dont even listen to these autists
"hurr durr I am a retard who can't use google"
>wikiwand.com
Here is a source. Now please commit suicide
not a single thing you wrote there is an argument, I hope you are trolling like any good bogan
there's literally millions of Italians with fair eyes and fair hair
>muh holy roman empire
It was a clusterfuck of kingdoms.
Once again you would be nothing without us Anglo shit.
Culture you clown, not people. HRE was German. As Voltaire saidz it was neither Holy, nor Roman, nor an Empire. Clown.
So proof of ancient Romans appearances from Suetonis aren't valid sources. Right.
>besides 23andme
>genotyping services are now not appropriate
I'm sorry, are you under the impression that the Jews are personally fudging the results in order to embarrass the Greeks? Is this a new worldwide conspiracy to hold the Greek people down? Maybe Angela Merkel is behind this one in some way too, right?
I don't know what you look like, Kosta.
And how is culture transmitted fuckhead? Did they telepathically adopt it?
>geocities
so 90s
no, what I'm implying is 23andme is a meme for idiots like you to eat up, because they are too retarded to understand the idiosyncrasies of haplogroups and concepts such as founders effect.
Way to prove me right. Still waiting for that source
what? Augustus could've been fair and still be Italian like the millions of Italians currently living in Italy atm.
besides, Augustus hair is described as sub-golden, which could've very likely been something like pic
If you think your is an argument then you nordicfags are more retarded than I though, guess it takes some serious retardation to challenge niggers at their we wuz game
Prove to me any of those italians arent mixed with nordic genes
I look Greek.
I know I shouldn't, but they are so blatantly retarded. Basically acting like niggers
yeah wait a sec m8 I'm gonna go outside and kindly ask blood samples from millions of native Italians to check, top kek
They're white, they're close to the fuckin people that lived there 2,000yrs ago, and ran the eastern roman empire for fuckin 1250yrs or so. What the fuck else you want from them? They cluster closest to Italians all throughout Italy, not just southern, but there is a slight bias to southern italians. They have no east asian in them overall like most Turks, they do have genes slightly from the red sea but fuck knows if it's Levant Phoenician or even Egyptian from fuck knows when. 40% or so have light eyes, not brown, considering the days of sunshine they get, I'm surprised it's not lower. They did mix a bit with slavs and others in the Balkans, but they were all orthodox back then and those people were part of the eastern roman empire. They cluster with Europeans and no one else in every damn ancestral dna fuckin test out there.
I have a Greek friend. She's a natural red head and she's pale as milk. 100% pure Greek.
Did you read your own link? Half of the population live in the coastal regions and islands
Top fucking kek
I'm sure you do. But what I'm saying is you probably don't look white. These are two different things.
...
Not an argument
So what is looking white then you tard?
Not looking like a turk
Based on our flags alone, it's more probable that I am white than you are.
HOLY smack, Kek reveals himself, be careful guys. You must be a good Jamaican, an honest Jamaican. I like Jamaican beef patties.
m8 why would you want to be white this day and age? I'm glad I'm not white if it means I'm not an autistic sissy cuck from above the Rhine.
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>Greek literature and Greek art furnish an abundance of evidence as to the pigmentation and the characteristic facial features of the ancient inhabitants of Hellas. The Olympian gods, ancestors of the semi-heroes, were for the most part blond, with ivory shins and golden hair. Athene was gray eyed. Poseidon, however, was black haired. These gods were little different if we may believe Homer, from their descendants the heroes, most of whom were white limbed and golden haired.27
... oy vey, greeks
Definitely not having 1) dark hair, 2) dark eyes, and 3) tan skin.
I mean, this should be simple. Not looking like a complete fucking spic is a good first step.
>part of the region borders on coast
>means the entire region is coastal
like I said, commit suicide
>Barring scenarios of absolute genocide the population of ancient populations are most similar to those who currently live there.
>People are surprised when modern Greeks are the most closely related to ancient Greeks, Modern Egyptians are most closely related to Ancient Egyptians, and modern Spaniards are most closely related to ancient Spaniards
I don't get why this is a thing. Do people actually believe Greeks were not "Greek" or Egyptians weren't "Egyptian?" why is this not
>we wuz faggots
Random lurker here. Family came here from Greece in 20's. Of the four siblings, 3 had blue eyes. Two had blond hair. Take this info as you will
its just a shitty meme to explain why Southern Euros dominated the Ancient world, instead of """masterrace""" nords.
Dumb shit poster
Fuck off OP Greek are white, you might have an argument for some other subgroups but not Greeks
WE WUZ EURIPIDES N SHEEEEIT
I never said that fuckhead
YOU said islanders arent greeks, when they make up 40-50% of your population
Sorry m8, my family has been here for 5 generations, and our ancestry is mostly English and Scottish, and some Dutch thrown in. This is a very common tactic that I run into when debating Greeks online. It basically boils down to:
>Y-you're just fuckin' albonigger diaspora!
How stupid are you? Do you even understand how diverse the physical looks of the white race is? You really think nordics are the only white people fucking kill yourself.
This board is full of idiots who have never seen actual Greek people in their own country before.
Oh and they were from the islands
They didn't, all of the important Mediterranean civilizations developed in Southern Europe after they were conquered by indo-Europeans
Ayy, you know your history. The ancient latins are a confirmed branch of the proto-germano-celtic group. Many of the patrician families had very fair features like light eyes and hair but of course over time they were slowly subsumed by intermarriage into the italic race and disappeared.
Greeks are probably the same way I believe the Dorians were some sort of group but even more distant, who the fuck know what ancient greeks were anymore.
>The Greeks, in short, are a blend of racial types, of which two are most important; the Atlanto-Mediterranean and the Alpine. Dinaricisrn here is present, but not all pervading; true Alpines are commoner than complete Dinarics. The Nordic element is weak, as it probably has been since the days of Homer. The racial type to which Socrates belonged is today the most important, while the Atlanto-Mediterranean, prominent in Greece since the Bronze Age, is still a major factor, it is my personal reaction to the living Greeks that their continuity with their ancestors of the ancient world is remarkable, rather than the opposite.
> But the arrival of the early Greek-speakers may have brought blondism other than that borne by the brachycephals[...]
>The historical reconstruction may be briefly summarized as follows: During the Neolithic, Greece was culturally connected with North Africa and the rest of the Mediterranean basin. The one skull which is known is of normal Mediterranean racial type.
>Between 2000 B.C. and the period of Homer, Greece was invaded three times more: (a) the Corded people (Myres calls them "Kurgan" people), who came from the north about 1900 B.C., and who, Myres thinks,20 may have brought the Indo-European basis of Hellenic speech;
>The skeletal record can, in part, supplement the evidence of reconstructed history. Six skulls from Hagias Kosmas near Athens represent the period of amalgamation of Neolithic Mediterranean, Danubian, and Cycladic elements, between 2500 and 2200 B.C.21 Three are dolichocephalic, one mesocephalic, and two brachyceplialic. The faces of all are narrow, the noses leptorrhine, the orbits high. One may conclude that a Cretan type of Mediterranean and the Cypriote Dinaric form were loth present.
No. I said that islanders are expected to have more MENA influence because they are closer to the Middle East and because they are a relatively isolated population.
Central Greece has nothing to do with it. They are not islanders.
>orty-one Late Helladic skulls, dated between 1500 and 1200 B.C., and coming likewise from Argolis, may include those of some of the "divineborn" invaders. Among these, one-fifth are brachycephalic, and apparently largely of the Cypriote Dinaric type. Of the long-headed skulls, a large number belongs now to the larger, more heavily marked varieties, and fewer to the smaller Mediterranean The similarity to the northern types, and especially to the Corded, is even stronger than before. This increase in a non-Minoan direction may perhaps be attributed to the arrival of the ancestors of Homer's heroes.
>Twenty-five Mid-Helladic crania represent the period after the arrival of the Corded or "Kurgan" folk from the north, and during the seizure of power by the Minoan conquerors from Crete
Nords arent Indo-Europeans. Also Greek and Italian natives made all the civilizations, infact the greeks had an empire in central Asia while you anglo faggots only succeeded in shit because you conquered subhumans while we conquered real people.
Most Greeks look very dark but I know one with blonde hair, blue eyes, the whole gig, same with his dad and sister. Only thing that gives him away that he might be Greek is his nose. The large majority of Greeks have dark features though
Alexander the Great was said to be blonde as well
Yup