Fantasy is what ruined Game of Thrones

It wasn't the fantasy aspect that made this show interesting. The first few seasons were the best with all of the political maneuvering and development of characters. The Dragons, Whitewalkers, and any fantasy ruined this show. They should have had Dany try to retake Westeros (heck maybe even have her free slaves) and end up turning mad. The morally gray character (like Jamie) become hero and unite with people like Jon and take down Dany. They then name Jon king not because he's a Targaryen, but because he is the hero of the war that kills Dany (whom he loved at one point).
Am I wrong?

Nah bad writing is what ruined game of thrones.

Yeah cutting Dany and the White Walkers from the beginning would have been the better choice, rather than cutting everything but Dany and the White Walkers
Seems strange that the two plotlines that were completely detached from the rest of the show are the only two that ended up mattering in the end

Dany chapters were the worst to read and watch. Jon chapters were only fun becuase of Ygritte, Mance rayder, and the betrayal of Jeor Mormont.

Having not watched the show since halfway through season 2. I read the books long ago up until the book where Dany has diarrhea. I've read most Fantasy series out there and I can safely say ASOIAF is among one of the worst, and that is compared to some truly fucking awful YA novels I've read too. The entire series blueballs you for scraps of fantastical elements so hard that eventually you stop caring and you just get bored instead. It is very apparent that GRRM didn't want to write genre fiction. If he could have gotten away with it he would most likely just have wanted to write a faux medieval Borgias-esque story with no fantastical elements at all. An editor or publisher most likely told his it was a fucking bad idea and wouldn't sell well if he did. The fantasy elements in ASOIAF are shit because GRRM obviously doesn't give a shit about it.

if by fantasy you mean kikes

>I read the books long ago up until the book where Dany has diarrhea
almost got me kek

well, obviously

GoT's succes has nothing to do with it "being" a fantasy as it spends 99% of its runtime as a high budget soap opera masquerading as fantasy

It¨s basically Dallas but the fantasy schtick gives it a cover so people aren't embarassed by watching it

>Fantasy ruined got

Fantasy saved it. It elevates a terrible show up to mediocre.

Without the fantasy, what are you left with?

A Medieval Political thriller for children-in-adult-bodies.

A watered-down, bastardized 'I, Claudius'.

GoT has had fantasy since day one and in literally episode.

I read the first two ones long before a show was announced.

Sort of dropped them and put them out of my mind after that and didn't revisit the series until the show was announced and read everything that had been released at that point.

I really can't fathom how this series blew up so much. There is so much better stuff out there. I can't stress this enough. Go to a bookstore or a library and pick something at random from the fantasy sections and chances are it will be better than ASOIAF. Not saying ASOIAF is particularly bad. It's just incredibly mediocre and just not enjoyable. I just don't get it, man.

This. First scene of first ep had that weird ass WW killing those guys in the night's watch

Teleportation ruined the show

this

>Dany turns bad because reasons
>Jaime turns good
>this somehow have to do with fantasy that ruined the show
are you sure there isn't an agenda here?

>Go to a bookstore or a library and pick something at random from the fantasy sections and chances are it will be better than ASOIAF.
list some stuff off the top of your head

what ruined GoT was killing too much relevant characters

After Book 3, it was fairly predictable about how it was all going to shake it out. But man the buildup was great.

It's basically HBOs Supernatural. Shit fanbases and went sour about the same seasons too.

>GoT
>ew white walkers
are you stupid or just a nigger

Of all the criticisms you can give GoT this is the most fucking pleb one. Go watch the Tudors fucktard.

I dont think you actually read the books, user

The fantasy elements are integral to the plot and the world. They've been there since day one. Maybe you just don't like fantasy, fucking idiot.

Nah, the series was only supposed to be 3 books. The 5 kings war was supposed to be like half a book. The Others were always the real threat, the dragons and fantasy shit was always the focus. Martin just gets sidetracked really easily, he thinks he should elaborate on every little thing. The first 2 chapters have zombies and then giant wolf puppies being given to Ned's family.

It just would've been better as 3 books with a tighter focus, with the other shit coming later as supplmentary releases that Martin could've published at his own pace until the end of time.

Did nigger fuck yo girl whyteboi?

OP here:
I have yet to hear a good counter-argument on why Dany and White Walker are a good part of the story. Yeah they may be integral but I'm arguing that's why GoT is shit. All I hear is:
>muh any fantasy is better
>muh first episode has fantasy

How do white walkers and dragons make the show interesting though?
What fantasy books are better? I think all fantasy is degenerate garbage.

They don't handle the fantasy aspects in the show all that well desu.

what makes it mediocre though?

you cucks just like the first seasons more because there was sub-par tits being thrown around everywhere. kys

The Night's Watch chapters in the book were interesting, but Daenerys and the dragons does bring the story down

Then why did you keep watching it after the first episode you gigantic retard? If ain't your bag it ain't your bag. What do you want from us?

The series was always about the fantasy aspects. Even characters entirely detached to it meet witches that give them prophecies, find magical green fire, read historical texts talking about dragons and giant spiders, there are men that can change their face on command, have spiritual encounters with different gods, ressurect dead men, and more. It's always been a fantasy series, the dragons and the Others aren't the only fantasy aspects.

You're probably rooting for Dany, user

Nah, I'm a Stannis fag when it comes to the books. Speaking of Stannis, in the second book he sends a woman to kill his brother and she does it by birthing a fucking shadow monster from her crotch in front of Davos. How is that not fucking fantasy?

That's shrewd political strategy. Why else do you think people join the Masons? So they can also birth shadow monsters that sleep with rival candidates that they then blackmail. Not fantasy.

What ruined GoT is that the good characters like Stannis, Ned, and Tywin all get killed while only bad or cliche characters live and get all the showtime like Jon, Dany and Arya.
All the good actors got killed off so you're left with nothing but bland.

Health insurance and social networking?

>stannis
HAHAHAH

>unironically using cucks
don't you belong on your containment board you fucking kike

They killed every interesting character in the show.
They killed every good actor in the show.
Most character archs are finished. (all the good and interesting ones at least, who gives a shit about Arya and Sansa anyway?)
The writing took a nose dive since D&D started to make shit up and it's predictable as fuck.
Pandering.

The fantasy element got nothing to do with it. Hell, the show opens with three guys in a forest getting chased by a blue eyed zombie.

If you dont want fantasy, watch Rome.

If you have, watch it again.

Hell, I want to watch Rome now.

go jack off to natalie dormers flat pancake tits you fucking cuck

Didn't mean to insult your fetish :3

>character arcs
>finished
>tyrion's catharsis with jaime
>jaime's real reason why he is the kingslayer revealed to everyone, absolving him of full culpability
>jon snow's heritage coming out
>what jon snow will do with said information
>clegane bowl
>the hound reuinited with arya and brienne

It's almost like you're a stupid fucking nigger

It's because since they were the most fantastical, rarely featured, and most teased at them lot points, it was obvious that's what people were bitching about wanting to see more of. Once the show writers had free rein to do whatever, they obviously went right to that.

Personally, I had the same opinion as everyone else seemed to: I wanted to see Tyrion, Dany, and Jon team up and take Westeros by storm. Apparently that's what's going down now

Arya's the only character guaranteed to live according to martin/his wife...

>"And in that moment Arya realized: she truly was A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones. The End"

Can you explain why? You kinda just keep repeating that it's bad without really saying why you think that.

>believing anything Martin says

Some people love that every little detail shit though, Stephen king does the same thing and people adore it. I personally can't stand when a writer endlessly has to describe every little detail of a scene, or emotion of a character down to an perfectionist degree, but there are people that really love that level of detail.

not that guy

malazan, joe abercrombie''s series, way of kings

Yeah it's terrible, hacky plotting on GRRM's part and the writing's been on the wall since the start that those would be the only important plot lines. Everything else was just filler to pad out the story and get all the pieces in place (the books were originally going to be a trilogy). Throw in D&D's inability to write believable plot points, dialogue, or character motivations and you have a disaster soup.

Martin only knows how to detail food.

Bait. Those are all atrocious.

nah fuck that i want strong independent women rubbing their clits together instead.

hrmm you tugging my braid?

Fantasy is a waste of time. Go read the classics.

Name 15

communist or socialist horseshit

Fantasy is a distraction from reality. The classics will help you understand your life and the nature of man. Easy choice.

I'm 32 years old, I've been to war. What the fuck are the 'classics' going to tell me about the nature of man that I do not know? Please elaborate.

cringe

>jaime's real reason why he is the kingslayer revealed to everyone, absolving him of full culpability
never going to happen, it's part of his tragedy. D&D will most likely have him stab his sister once she tries to pull a Aerys 2.0 when either the white walkers or Dany stands at kings landings gates. It's like poetry, it ryhmes. Now he can be both kingslayer and queenslayer.

>32 years old
>on an anime image board
>defending fantasy literature
Yeah I'm sure you've seen some blood-curdling shit my dude.

The first scene of the series involves a white walker cutting a man's head off and throwing it at another man, what is this? Are you retarded?

Agreed.

Unfortunately, George built magic into the series as his Get Out of Jail Free card, so it was inevitable.

The problem is he went way too far with it. King has the same problem but even he doesn't go to the extremes Martin does.
ASOIF was always just about the Stark family navigating the world and trying to stay alive. The other characters were there for support. At the beginning most of the POV characters are the Starks. Tyrion was another major focus as were a few other characters but most of what happens in the first book is from a Stark's perspective, and Dany's.

It was always about the Starks and Targs, Martin just can not help but be sidetracked. We really would still be waiting for Feast if not for his editor. The only reason anything got done after Martin decided 3 books wasn't enough was because his editor constantly talks him down from more, more, more. He wanted it to be 10 books at one point. His editor again put a stop to it. He also initially showed his editor like 1,500 pages for Feast and like 2,000 for Dance.

When you couple that with his notoriously and work ethic, his problems are far worse than King's. At least when King writes, he keeps a strict schedule and writes nonstop until he's done. He was able to write Cujo, as in the entirety of the nearly 1,000 page Cujo, while so high off coke and so drunk off his ass, when he came down from his insane bender, he didn't even know he'd wrote it and his editor had to explain to him that he'd written an entire fucking novel that was about to be published.

...

And I bet you have some real fucking insight on the human condition from reading hemingway dude.

>going through a horrific war experience only to use it to win internet arguments
I definitely believe you, buddy.

does anyone has some hope left for Winds of Winter coming out?

What do you think veterans do after service, m8? Sit around in isolated wood cabins waiting for Mattis to show up in a helicopter and ask them to come back?

Yeah if only I'd read books about dwarves and elves. Then I'd have a real grasp on reality.

you understand the meaning of life and the human nature yet you spend your time shitposting about some shit show

quit reminding me

You're right. I'm absolutely sure they bring up their service at every opportunity to win internet arguments.

>you understand the meaning of life
But I don't. That's why I don't waste my time on fantasy. Too much to learn still.

>Thinking he'll kill off Jon when he was resurrected to avoid his fate
Face it, Jon has the best plot armor out of all the characters, including Arya. If he dies, it's at the end of the series after a time skip. Danny isn't going to die either. GURM is too much of a feminist to have all the female leaders offed, especially when the only one left to challenge her is another evil crazy woman. Preston is right. It's just against GURM's personal view of the world, and he would never depict a situation that goes against his central cherished beliefs.

>implying veterans don't do exactly that

You're not American are you? Every veteran I know mentions their service almost constantly online. In fact, I can count on one hand the ones that don't, of the like 200 people I know from my old unit. It's all they fucking talk about.

first three books were always looked at highly, until the show popularized the series.
while it's true that the quality of the books drops dramatically once you hit the fourth and beyond, you are a huge faggot.

>Then I'd have a real grasp on reality.
Jesus. Go outside and live a little. That will tell you infinitely more about life than any book can.

Anyone who has actually seen shit doesn't bring it up at all.

No, the fantasy genre will teach me everything I need to know. It isn't just brainless entertainment, it's REAL education!

Yeah, you don't know many veterans dude. They never shut the fuck about it. Especially modern vets from the most recent conflicts. They're pretty open about how much they loved killing people.

That's not true at all, everyone's different. You're assuming everyone bottles shit up, they don't.

It was fantasy from the first chapter you retard.

Granted, that wasn't what made it popular at all. What made it popular was the endless speculation, which has all been dashed on the rocks so far.

Naeh.
What ruined the show was a poor sense of what makes sense and what is plausible

Every vet I've met that talks like that clams up as soon as you start to ask specifics and they realize you can tell they're full of shit.

the dark elf trilogy :o)

This intire thread is full of kikes and niggers

And that's terrible

The things he mentioned were a result of bad writing you moron

>The Dragons, Whitewalkers, and any fantasy ruined this show.

I disagree about the Dragons, they CAN work as a plot device, provided they are treated as weapons and not simply as an unstoppable automatic winning machine so YASS QUEEN can slay. I don't give a shit about the Dragons in and of themselves, but giving an underdog character a game changing boon can be interesting, provided that there are limits, and it SHOULD serve to enhance the political intrigue and strategy. Think about what would happen if it came out tomorrow that ISIS had acquired nukes. Would that mean America is done for? No, but we would be forced to change our strategy and reshuffle our priorities pretty dramatically. In the books, the tides turned in Daenerys's favor when the dragons came into play, but her victory is far from assured. Trouble is, D&D ran out of source material and now that they're playing it by ear (on a tight deadline) no less, they're cutting all kinds of narrative corners and the story has suffered for it. They have neither the creative ability nor the time to sketch out something as intricate as GRRM did, but he took twenty funking years to get there. D&D have a couple months between seasons.

The Others were always garbage though, and they are the single most uninteresting aspect of the story. I feel like GRRM wrote them in before he realized where the story was going and now he's fucked.

>Thinking Martin will live to see the end

Neil Gaiman will be the one to decide that.

>not a nigger
that must mean..

This.

I don't mind GURM's feminism so much, as long as he sticks to his anti-war stance.


The series needs to end with the Night King on the throne.
The in-fighting having doomed them all.

GRRM improvises his books

that's why they are a big clusterfuck

he wanted to be like tolkien but he sucks at fantasy, he can only write soap opera for teenagers, it's like crepusculo-tier fantasy drama