Christanons get in here

Christanons get in here.

I have a question for you. I consider myself a Christian and believe Christ to be our lord and savior but I have trouble reconciling some of what is said in the Old Testament with science such as the Earth only being thousands of years old and the story of Adam and Eve. For a while I just reconciled the two with the belief that much of the Old Testament is parables or symbolic where the message is the real thing and the story is just a way of purveying the message.

I had a thought though. Do you think it possible that the Garden of Eden and humanity started off on another planet, and when we fell from grace by disobeying God, God literally kicked us off a planet, an entire planet being the garden of Eden which was only 6 thousand or so years old, onto Earth? I always thought when reading the story what was to keep man from just sneaking back in?

God lives outside of time so 7 days could mean anything to him really, whose to say the Earth is not older than the planet which we were meant to live on before we fell from grace, let's just call that planet Eden.

Do you think it possible that Eden itself was a planet and when we were kicked out, Earth was our punishment?

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is over there.
>Do you think it possible that Eden itself was a planet
No, it's described as having a couple of Earth rivers flowing through it.

Our punishment was mortality.

Gen 3:19 In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread
Till you return to the ground,
For out of it you were taken;
For dust you are,
And to dust you shall return.”

"Yet here too He provides a benefit—namely death, which cuts off sin, so that evil may not be everlasting. Thus His punishment is changed into a mercy." - St. Gregory the Theologian

St. Basil the Great: Those who do not admit the common meaning of the Scriptures say that water is not water, but some other nature, and they explain a plant and a fish according to their opinion.... (But) when I hear "grass," I think of grass, and in the same manner I understand everything as it is said, a plant, a fish, a wild animal, and an ox. Indeed, "I am not ashamed of the Gospel (Rom. 1:16)."... (Some) have attempted by false arguments and allegorical interpretations to bestow on the Scripture a dignity of their own imagining. But theirs is the attitude of one who considers himself wiser than the revelations of the Spirit and introduces his own ideas in pretense of an explanation. Therefore, let it be understood as it has been written

St. Ephraim the Syrian: No one should think that the Creation of Six Days is an allegory; it is likewise impermissible to say that what seems, according to the account, to have been created in six days, was created in a single instant, and likewise that certain names presented in this account either signify nothing, or signify something else. On the contrary, we must know that just as the heaven and the earth which were created in the beginning are actually the heaven and the earth and not something else understood under the names of heaven and earth, so also everything else that is spoken of as being created and brought into order after the creation of heaven and earth is not empty names, but the very essence of the created natures corresponds to the force of these names.

The Eden story is a remarkably good allegory for two things:

#1. Individual human development from infancy to adulthood

#2. The evolution of societies from mobile hunters to stable civilized farmers

This is about the cat being out of the bag as it relates to intent.

There is a junction in both societal development and individual human development where it can be said: "Now you know better, and you can't pretend you don't."

First a simple series of rote prescriptions regarding external conduct were put in place, to see how humans could handle that.

The old law laid the basis for the new testatment insofar as it illustrated that following rote instruction is pointless and just amounts to "going through the motions."

It lays the basis for the new testament which is a break from the old law.

The old law was achievable. It was mechanical.

Jesus came to say that the law is not good enough. Your inner monologue and intent is what matters. However, that's an impossible degree of perfection to achieve and God, of course, knows that.

And since it's impossible to be 100% righteous regarding intent, the only solution was for our collective sin (past, present and future) to be affixed to Jesus Christ, so he could be flogged, damned and resurrected for us.

All we have to do is acknowledge that he did.

Anything factual beyond that isn't really knowable.

How do you square away science that is pretty irrefutable that the Earth is much older than 6,000 years old and that man and dinosaur did not walk the planet together, the only people I know who believe that are the evangelicals and studies show they know the least about the bible and when given the options between two statements one said by the pharisees and one said by Jesus Christ they often agree with the Pharisees. I know no Catholic or Orthodox who actually believes the Earth is 6,000 years old.

Or maybe science is just a bunch of jewish bullshit.

This is a troll thread
> I always thought when reading the story what was to keep man from just sneaking back in?
The answer is literally in the same or next verse.

Hello brother. I don't believe in the genesis. I do believe in evolution.

I don't know if the story was to be taken literally or not, but I don't believe it. I still believe in God and Jesus.

>support the use of DNA evidence to investigate crimes
>that same DNA clearly shows our evolutionary history

The Garden of Eden was the marshes in Sumer, a cradle of fertility and life in a land of desert and hopelessness. Saddam Hussein (A Muslim) has destroyed the marsh and made it 80% smaller than it once was. The Muslims destroyed Eden and it must be restored.

I just quoted two Orthodox Church Fathers. Even St. Augustine, who favored a more allegorical interpretation of Genesis, believed the Earth was only thousands of years old. The idea that only protestants take Genesis literally is mostly a meme desu.

What I would say to you is that you shouldn't need ancient religious texts to square with modern science in the first place, we shouldn't go back and change our interpretations of scripture to make sure it is compatible with what scientists say. The whole point of Genesis is to give us a spiritual explanation of why we are here and why we live in a fallen world.

Catholic who believes in a literal 7 day creation reporting in.

Then are you claiming the bible is wrong on how old the Earth is or science is wrong?

The bible doesn't ever make the claim that the Earth is just 6000 years old. I'm a creationist, but the Earth is obviously older than that.

I like the way you put all that.

WRONG, the Garden of Eden was located in Jackson County, Missouri.

The Bible doesn't say how old the Earth is. What I am saying is the patrician interpretation of Genesis tends to be more literal. Does this mean the Church Fathers were wrong about how old the Earth is? Possibly, but I don't think they were ever that concerned with being in line with modern science to begin with, so I don't really see it as a flaw in their teaching.

Oh. Well, that changes everything.

>or science is wrong?
I'm going to add that the Bible is an unchanging standard of truths. "Science" is always correcting itself and coming up with truer truths than it previously held.

The Earth was flat, maggots used to spontaneously spawn on rot and there's an iron hammer that carbon dates back to 400 million years ago.

And I think dinosaurs are the coolest animals that ever were.

I'm not Christian...
I am well read and can look at this without superstition.

Do you believe that when Moses wrote Genesis thru Deuteronomy, tales handed down over time, o.... that nothing was changed or misinterpreted through the re-telling?

I always believed the Garden, and the fall of man was an allegory. Men were hunter gatherers by nature, or God's design if you will.
He never had to toil or farm until he was cursed.

The book of Enoch describes the Angel Azazel and his followers as corrupting man, teaching him industry, vanity, and other things forbidden by God.

When we changed from hunter gathering tribes to living in cities, farming, and industry... I believe this was the knowledge of the forbidden fruit.

You have to remember, when this stuff was written, people had no reference to modern terms. The world ended when you could not climb a mountain of cross a sea. A plane for instance would be described as a golden eagle or something.

I have no problem with your faith or beliefs, but remember we are more sophisticated now. Try to read this as if you were in their mindset. Take the good messages from it, and if some of it is hard to reconcile with modern knowledge, then remember compared to us Moses was ignorant, and could only use what he had heard, and words he possessed.

>tfw my mom actually grew up Mormon there and thought the Garden of Eden was a couple miles away from her

my semi-senile grandpa still devoutly believes that Joseph Smith had superpowers

>The bible doesn't ever make the claim that the earth is just 6000 year old

"For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day."

"And he answered and said to them, Have you not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,"
>Made them at the beginning
Either you're saying that Jesus didn't know the earth is billions of years old or you're saying He was lying.

Also cf; genealogy of Jesus going back straight to Adam

bibleinfo.com/en/questions/did-creation-take-place-6-literal-days

With evolution you have dead before sin. This is a heresy.

I'm not talking about the length of the period of creation. I'm talking about the Earth being older than 6000 years, and the bible not ever making a statement on the age of the Earth.

The 6000 year theory was put forth by someone who added up all the lineages in the Old Testament. On the surface this is a fine way to figure it out, but the word "beget" means "to give rise to, to cause to come into existence," it doesn't have to mean literal fatherhood. With this in mind, it is possible and probable that many names were skipped in the lineages, naming only important names in the lineage that people of the time would have been familiar with. We see this also at the beginning of the Gospel of Matthew, with the lineage of Jesus. We aren't treated to a full lineage, only the highlights, as it were.

>"And he answered and said to them, Have you not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,"

Not sure how this relates to the age of the Earth at all.

first real post best post

>implying God's days are measured the same as our own

1 Corinthians 13:12 - For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

I understand that it is said He made the Earth in 6 days, rested on the 7th, and that there is a long genealogy one can measure out to "date" the Earth.

I grew up with a anthropologist for a mother, so I come from a different perspective on this than a lot of folks. I don't even care to pretend that any of us know how old the Earth is. Our only real concern should the coming sound of the morning's trumpet.

Light was formed on the First Day and the Sun and Moon on the Third Day because the Proto-Saturn hypothesis is true

Communist fairy tales

communism is literally taking the good things from christianity and taking away the (((((bad))))) things like God

Is the Gideon's bible a good scholarly translation of the New Testament?
>Implying communsism isn't the ultimate form of tribalism
communism has been corruptied by marxist ideas (which are merely an evolution of degenerate capitalist ideas)

Christians don't steal shit from others to redistribute.

It's personally sacrificial.

It's KJV. Make of that what you will.

I personally use the RSV, which is based on the KJV but does away with the archaic sounding language, except when referring to God, or whenever God speaks.

no the universe and the earth are billions of years old that is in scripture, 7 days where just that 7 earth days