I'm by no means one of you...

I'm by no means one of you, I pride myself as being fairly rational when it comes to differences between people and how one should go about dealing with it.

However, when it comes to Islam, I find myself doubting whether I can apply the same logic to it.

On the one hand I believe in freedom of religion and freedom to practice it, but on the other hand I can't help but notice that the current Islam has a tendency to insulate its followers and lead them into a totalitarian mindset with a billion rules to follow, all the while preaching intolerance of those who don't follow them.

This is the classical of problem of "tolerating the intolerant".

Is there a way of reforming Islam? Is there a way to castrate it, like the other abrahamic religions that today have transitioned into fairly harmless version (in comparison to more virulent forms in the early modern to medieval period.)

Will one of the outcomes of the defeat of ISIS be a reformation of Islam, as its followers realise that its current form enabled a monster to creep out of the woodwork?

>I'm by no means one of you
You haven't been coming here very long, have you?

It's simple

you put them in camps and kill them

i've lurked enough to know I shouldn't expect anything but shitposting from Australia

>I'm by no means one of you
give it time user.

>I pride myself as being fairly rational when it comes to differences between people and how one should go about dealing with it.

Making you among the ones who created this problem in the first place. Your definition of "rational" isn't rational at all. You're completely blind if you think there is any middle ground or hope of integrating Islam into your culture. Stay here and you may yet be saved.

Modern liberalism is just Marxist subversion.

Yes yes we all believe in Freedom but maintaining Freedom requires steadfast vigilance against subversive ideologies such as Islam.

It's ironic how people will be quick to say such freedom doesn't apply to Nazism but it does to Islam.

>is there a way of reforming Islam?

You can reform it really easily with napalm.

>reform it into a smoldering pile of ash

>I'm by no means one of you
Something something the abyss gaze back, give it a few more hours and you'll hate canada and start creating meme folders.

In the UK, people thought that catholics had inherently different mindsets and couldn't integrate into society without conspiring to reintroduce rule by the pope. that was a few hundred years ago.

After a few hundred years of catholic vs protestant war in Europe the issue seems to have disappeared.

Can the same happen for Islam?

(no i'm not okay with having to have a war last for centuries before any progress happens, it's just an example)

there has to be a way of forcing people to change the way they interpret their holy books without having to rely on war weariness.

Islam is pure regression. It doesn't deserve any respect at all.

None of us would have any of the freedoms that we do if Islam had its way.

i doubt it will happen, but it's impossible to predict what will happen in a few centuries. we might all become jewish for all we know

>Can the same happen for Islam?

Are you really willing to gamble to find out at the risk of your island and the entire continent it's attached to being conquered if it doesn't?

We need to simply genocide all Muslims out of the West and let them do whatever they want in their medieval sand dunes.

How about just not let them in your country? It's that fucking simple. They have plenty of their own land. You letting these "people" in is the problem itself, not figuring out how to integrate them. They were worthless in their own countries and came running to yours. What makes you think they're going to contribute any more in your country than their own?

>the current Islam has a tendency to insulate its followers and lead them into a totalitarian mindset with a billion rules to follow, all the while preaching intolerance of those who don't follow them.
>the current Islam

That's what islam has always been senpai.

>Can the same happen for Islam?
The same IS happening with Islam m80. Everywhere they go they follow the same pattern;
-low pop, peaceful, small demands
-self segregation, demand special treatment in public areas (prayer rooms in hospitals, mosques everywhere.
-breed like locusts, start infiltrating government.
-Demand halal in shops.
-keep growing in numbers, start badmouthing local lawenforcement and people. Intolerance grows fast at this point.
-Endgame: war, fully take over, eliminate every form of opposition.

Look up Lebanons history, it was a free and open society just a few decades ago. Now it's a goddamn sharia shithole.
don't be naive, it's not about the 'moderate muslim' it's about the estimated 250 million radicals set on destroying all forms of society that is not sharia ruled.

The difference is there is no Catholic bible and no protestant bible, there is just the bible, the differences between sects are just arbitrary, non Christian political shit.
Islam is Islam, the only way to reform it into being able to fit into Western society is to remove like 95% of the Quran from existence.

So the range of solutions I've read so far go from not letting them in, rounding them up into camps, to all out genocide.

Only in a pol dreamworld is that a realistic solution.

And what happens after the genocides, after that precedent has been set? Do we simply gas anyone who poses a threat. What kind of justice system do you want to live in? Don't be naive to think it'll be a temporay change to our society to carry out such a measure.

the differences are how it's interpreted you mean. The same goes for Islam, there are many versions of Islam owing to the fact there is no official church structure, and there are two branches, sunni and shia, as well as various factions within each branch.

The fact there is no homogeneity of opinion is the problem, you can't get them all reform, just a portion, there's no leadership to bride or to corrupt

Look m8, it's either one of these solutions, or you get taken over. There is no alternative, no matter how long you may look for one. You've clearly ignored a lot of what was said. There are very clear patterns present in countries that have allowed Islam into their countries. I understand the red pill is hard to swallow, but you must if you want a United Kingdom rather than Bongistan.

No.
-Stop government funding of religious buildings. Want a place for prayer? cough up cash from your community. Don't let foreign influences finance it either.
-Controlled immigration. Stop this open border bullshit.
-No more dual nationalities. Demand loyalty. Be a (insert country of origin here) and fuck off or be a (insert country of dreams here). Non negotiable.
-Dual nationalities already in: Kick out and take away citizenship of criminals.

Just to give some ideas.

do you really want to flood your land with migrants who DO NOT want your values, only your valuables?
No need for gaschambers and execution camps yet. But action MUST be taken very soon.

And he is gone.

OP is a faggot just here to bitch and moan without having any solution for himself.
Not responding to actual ideas and not capable of refuting given ideas.
"youw solutions suck, you awe all wacist"

Here is something to think about.

Say you bring in Muslims and they out breed your people and gain political power. What's to stop them from changing your country into an Islamic nation with Islamic law? Most of you are unarmed. You will live under an ultra traditionalist rule that will make Sup Forums seem left wing kek.

Your solution doesn't target islam per se, just foreigners of any kind. It's not ideal.

I agree with the first idea, that saudi money should be taken out of mosques.

The rest doesn't work when you take into account that there are lot of people with dual nationality as a result of having parents from two european countries for example.

Ideally a solution would be to break up the muslim ghettos and somehow force integration to the point their youth are "corrupted" to the point they are "culturally islamic", like "cultural christians" who just celebrate Christmas and don't know shit about actual doctrine.

my end goal is ramadan being as materialistic as christmas, what steps must be taken?

>what steps must be taken?

Looking at history is a start. My example of Lebanon for example.
Being realistic about the situation would help.
Identifying the source of these problems helps too. These ongoing wars are not helping at all.

My solutions are doable. examples, sadly, must be made.
Breaking up families by kicking out criminal members of families may deter the next one to crime and instead start thinking about what is happening.
Also giving those who want to leave their religion, a thing punishable by death within all of Islam, a platform to speak out.

We are at amoment in time where the dialogue is staggering, it's very one sided. Muslims, the sharia screamers in particular, only demand.

There are loads of examples to be found on Youtube and other sources where Muslims are simply claiming pieces of land as their own, disregarding local politics. It is sharia that counts for them and nothing else.
That MUST be dealt with one way or another.
History shows us it WILL be dealt with lest you find more demands.

Stop speaking and thinking from your own experience with a handfull of moderates. those are irrelevant and those are the ones who , if previously mentioned radicals are dealt with, have a chance at integrations and reform as you speak of.

The radicals are dangerous. Keep looking into this and I hope you'll learn. I was like you at some point, no more. Deal with the radicals and the moderates will pacify.
Stop bombing their countries of origin and emotions may settle down.
And stop letting thousands of people in every year until this problem is dealt with. Low education non westerners are very vulnerable to religious doctrine, only making the problem worse.
We cannot save the world if we cannot even fix our own problems.

Islam is the perfect system for niggers.

Your end game would work if we could convince them that they do not have to follow their teaching to a T, but if they feel they do, NOTHING we do can change them, and they will only continue to try and wipe out the West, as they see it as being opposed to what they believe in all it's forms.
So we either outlaw the idea of "Islam" or outlaw Sharia, or don't let them into our cities. Remember other (major) religions do not say that you need to kill for you god, only Islam.

You're making a domestic problem into a global one. I can't simply ignore the product of westernisation on the very people I want to integrate, it's the goal that should be achieved.

I agree that poorly educated muslims won't help and should probably not be admitted. I would probably stop immigration from bangladesh and pakistan for starters.

The problem is that all your solutions are all stick, where is the carrot? Your solutions would backfire and be percieved as an attempt to stimgatise, causing the moderates to reject wider society.

You have to deal with the radicals in a way that prevents their radicalisation in the first place, and not simply removing them from society as if they were always a radical from birth.

The radicals want you to squeeze out the middle ground so they can get their muslim vs west apocalyptic war on.

Can we just think of a more insidious way to difuse the situation.

You can't reform Islam (at least sunni Islam) since it lacks a central authority. The Catholic church has the pope which allowed for Aggiornamento and the Vatican II reform.

Well,you are right my solutions are far from perfect, so why don't you come up with something instead of just "your ideas suck" ?

Come on, critisism is easy, solutions are hard. give it a shot.

>In the UK, people thought that catholics had inherently different mindsets and couldn't integrate into society without conspiring to reintroduce rule by the pope. that was a few hundred years ago.

Anglos trying to understand Catholicism. Lol.

Also, the Amerikaner was right - you're not rational at all.

For Muslims in Western lands the solution is forced assimilation. In my country this has a proven track record of working well. France proper used to be very small. Newly acquired provinces were swiftly Frenchized by using forceful policies to eradicate local languages and customs. These policies were then used with great success to assimilate the waves of Polish, Italian and spanish migrants till in the first half of the 20th century. Then the modern left appeared and decided assimilation was evil and we should just "integrate" newcomers, allowing them to keep their culture and religion, which led to the current clusterfuck.

>In the UK, people thought that catholics had inherently different mindsets and couldn't integrate into society without conspiring to reintroduce rule by the pope. that was a few hundred years ago.

They were right then.

>After a few hundred years of catholic vs protestant war in Europe the issue seems to have disappeared.

Because the catholics were destroyed as a political power in Britain, Germany (Kulturkampf) and the protestants in France (Edict de Nantes rescinded).

Islam is a cancer to humanity and must be irradiated.

Don't bother anons

OP is a faggot who just wants to bitch and moan at the solutions we give, not actually think about the problem for himself.
Or maybe he simply has nothing because he knows we are right.

OP is a prime example of a leftist cuck, full of a dream of an ideal world, but without the guts to fight for it. And fight we must.

user out.

>meme folders
thisismylifenow.jpg

Stay a while and you will learn

I'm a Muslim and I don't think there's much point in making a well thought out serious point on this shitfest of a board, but Islam as in the religion itself doesn't insulate at all, it says to actively go "out there" in seeking knowledge. Fuckhead imams do the insulating, and the majority of Muslims are in poor and ignorant and uneducated countries like Pakiland (which is where my origins lie). I think the internet is doing a huge amount of good in these countries as it has effectively guaranteed that the coming generations will know a lot more about the world than their parents did. Really, the last couple of generations at least in Pakistan, were total cunts thanks to the dictator Zia who mandated Wahhabist Islamic education and destroyed the intellectualism that had been present in Pakistan since the country's birth in 1947 and preceding that.
Rekt

Why do you even care if they integrate or not by 2050 Britain will have British minority, what is even the point. If you gonna go full retard and let politicians change your Britain's demographics, might as well let them change laws and norms.

the only way muslims will integrate into our culture is if they convert to our religion faggot thats how culture works

Maybe we can lure them into degeneracy like the rest of society. Maybe one day the middle east can be no more fucked up than Mexico.

There is no reforming Islam
Islam is to be crushed and nothing more
It is cancer to civilization

Abrahamism is cancer.
Fuck the mohammed accords.
Fuck enlil.
Restore Ogdoad now.