I've been watching a lot of God debates recently, and was wondering if anyone had any input on this point of view on God given "free will". I've never seen any atheists bring this up, at least in this way, and I wanted to see if if any religious people think this is a valid point, or explain to me how it isn't.
It seems that whenever religious people talk about "free will" they talk about God as a sort of supreme overseer, who knows everything about everything, but has no real bearing on our decisions. It seems debates on this point tend to leave out that he is also the creator and author of everything from the beginning, which I think is important to note in all of this. I think that there's a big difference between an "all-knowing supreme overseer" and an "all-knowing supreme overseer who created everything". Knowing all things would have nothing to do with the free will of others, but the all-knowing creation of those others is what makes free will impossible.
If you knew everything about everything, but didn't create any of it yourself (everything just is how it is, for the sake of argument), you know your friend is going to put on a blue shirt tomorrow morning. The next morning, your friend puts on a blue shirt, and you were correct. The fact that you knew his choice has nothing to do with the fact that he still chose it himself, and thus his free will is real.
Now, imagine you knew everything about everything, and ALSO created everything, including your friend in this scenario. Not only do you know that your friend is putting on that blue shirt, but in this case, you're the one who created him with this urge to put on that blue shirt. Everything about him, from the color of his eyes to every cell and chemical reaction in his brain, were constructed by you. The scenario that he is in, where he is standing in front of his wardrobe, and all of the moments of his life before this moment were constructed by you, with prior knowledge of everything that was going to happen. In this case, to me, it seems that his free will is an illusion.
When religious people argue this point, they don't acknowledge that it's the creation of everything, and not just the supreme knowledge, that makes free will impossible. Of course knowing everything by itself doesn't impede free will, but when you are the one making everything and everyone with all knowledge in advance, you are, in essence, the author of everyone's will as well. It isn't "free" anymore, because you made them this way.
I know this seems kind of long, and I may have repeated myself a a bit, but often times people don't understand without it being explained in different ways. I hope I didn't offend anyone, and would like to know if anyone has a response to this.
Jacob Mitchell
Long Live Allison.
Austin Hernandez
I don't have anything to actually add, I just want to say you're right. And this point >they don't acknowledge that it's the creation of everything, and not just the supreme knowledge Is extra right. They always say "well, knowing everything doesn't mean you caused everything" when talking about something said to have caused everything.
Xavier Jenkins
I think it more like a sandbox thing I mean, from the Bible point of view the only humans created by God were Adam and Eve, apart from them we would be just the result of free will, kinda like God created everything and watch it develope. Not a creationist myself
Alexander Long
Calvinists would argue that from before creation God chose some for salvation and some for damnation. God is the author and orchestrator of all events. There is no free will. Humans and the rest of creation exist for the glory and amusement of God.
Zachary Thompson
You know what choice Truman made on using nukes.
Was that a choice of free will?
>you now understand
Ryan Bailey
thanks bud
That's a good point, but I'd say that a "sandbox" isn't a perfect analogy, since that only acknowledges the creation, and not the supreme knowledge.
When a software developer makes a sandbox mmo, for example, they only create the framework, and they know how the mechanics work. But they don't know everything that is going to happen. Since they didn't create the players themselves.
When god created Adam and Eve, he knew in advance everything that was going to happen exactly as it has. The fact that he is all-knowing, means that he could have changed the placement of a single rock, or a single hair on Eve's head, that would affect the future in any way he saw fit, and chose to create it this way. I can't seem to find any other way around this point.
