The Matrix

The Matrix Trilogy is to this day one of the most interesting film series ever made. The second and third entry were a huge step down from the first film and are arguably mediocre or even bad films on their own, as a trilogy the series still achieved a lot of what their creators set out to do.

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They're interesting, to be sure. Whatever you may think of the acting and that it was not enough arthouse and donkey fucking involved. They made an impact

>The second and third entry were a huge step down from the first film and are arguably mediocre or even bad films on their own
reddit

>The second and third entry were a huge step down from the first film and are arguably mediocre or even bad films on their own

Because they're too deep for average viewers to understand.

This. The Matrix sequels are definite pleb filters

I. Symbolism: The biggest issue people have when trying to understand the films is their need to combine all symbolism and all metaphors into one big meaning. This is obviously impossible, as the films have several overlapping layers of visual and topical references and nods to source material of vastly different origin. The Matrix borrows from Anime, The Old Testament, The New Testament, Greek Philosophy and much more, all while being heavily influenced by the iconography of traditional visual arts. What elevates the final product from being a simple rip off and qualifies its creators as more than hacks is how they reshaped known elements into something new. This is very much evident with the first film but also with the trilogy as a whole, although the second and third entry suffer from several weaknesses that make it seem like they're just the rip off I'm arguing they are not.

I forgot sum of number, but the amount of money they got for the entire first film, was ended up spending on like first 10 to 15 minutes of film. Those footage was good enough so that the studio decided to give them rest of budget, they needed to finish whole film. Sooo it didn't start out as a film that stretches out for the 3 films. I guess those are the primary reason that 2nd & 3rd one didn't quite live up to its hype.

If you haven't seen the other two films, both Reloaded and Revolutions are mediocre films at best. That's all I was saying. In my opinion films should always try to be able to stand on their own, even if they're part of a bigger series.

The depth of the story of the trilogy suggests that the claims made by the Wachowskis of having a trilogy planned out is true. They were hoping for a trilogy but realized they might only get to make the first one, so they tried to make the best film they possibly could while setting up the possibility for their trilogy. The second and third suffered from being rushed and the Wachowskis overestimating the quality of contemporary CGI alongside with pacing issues and ignoring the fact that they could still be viewed as individual films. They were produced as one big project and the films suffered from it, just as the Lord of the Rings Trilogy profited from the very same approach.

II. Philosophy: A plethora of different philosophical ideas are touched on in The Matrix. There's obvious discussion of the problem of choice and free will, ontological issues, Plato's cave analogy, Buddhism and several others. The genius of it is that the script never explicitely references most of these but simply incorporates them. Again, there is no definitive interpretation or meaning to these layers, they're just there. In our modern world we face the exact same issue of being offered a multitude of views and opinions and beliefs, of which plenty have their own merits. The challenging task is to navigate that labyrinth of values and beliefs and that is what the underlying discourse of philosophical ideas in The Matrix echoes – intended or not.

op would you still recommend me to watch the 2nd and the 3rd film

It's good because the good parts are so good that they make us imaginatively overwrite the bad parts with our own vague but tantalizing projections of what good versions of the bad parts would have been.

yes

What many people forget about the sequels is that they weren't just two movies.

They were Reloaded + Enter the Matrix + Animatrix + short webcomics + Revolutions, with subplots going back and forth through all of the above. While the multimedia combination thing wasn't executed very well, it's still a way better experience than the other big ass blockbusters' scheme of repackaging a film's story into different tie-in packages

I recommend watching them but only after revisiting the first one.

not me

I am familiar with virtually every single official media related to The Matrix, including The Path of Neo and other forgotten bits. As I pointed out before, I still think films should have a merit on their own, as their format allows people to exclusively watch one of them in cinema or at home. The experience of a film should never be fully reliant on other media. Additionally, The Path of Neo and other media deviates from the canonical storyline, which the Wachowskis addressed thoroughly in both the game itself and in several bits of the 10+ hours of additional footage in the Ultimate Edition of The Matrix Trilogy. Canon to them is essentially whatever parts of the official media you feel fit together.

>achieved a lot AS A TRILOGY
>2 & 3 were shit tho
You're saying the matrix was a great and influential movie, which it is

and this thread is pointless and dumb

III. Details: There is an incredible amount of detail in a lot of scenes. People tend to chalk these up to over-interpretation, arguing that if there's no one overarching true deeper meaning, small references or depths in dialogue are just coincidence or the just mentioned over-interpreting film enthusiast. However, the amount of nods in both visuals and dialogue must not be overlooked, if one wants to dig deeper. Although these small details do not form one obvious complete pattern, the patchwork of them urges the motivated viewer to rethink their views on how myth, philosophy and belief can be integrated in modern life.

When fighting each other during the final act in the first film, Neo and Agent Smith empty their guns, then exchange the following lines: "You're empty." – "So are you."
This is the perfect example for a piece of dialogue, where everyone can understand that interpreting this as a nod to the fact that both characters are partly code in the Matrix might be a stretch. The opposite holds true for more obvious bits of dialogue like Neo being addressed as "personal Jesus Christ", where noone would doubt that this was foreshadowing his later role as Messiah. Moving on to the interesting area in between, we find lines like the comment about Neo's training, where his commitment is described towards Morpheus with the following words: "He's a machine." Now if we combine these little details into one big picture, we can find even more hints towards how some of the less obvious bits of the story can be understood. Every single bit of dialogue that can be looked at as pretentious and empty, no matter if delivered by the Architect, the Oracle or Morpheus, has its place in weaving a web of how the things are connected to each other under the surface of what's obviously happening.

I disagree that all I wrote amounts to "2 & 3 were shit", but your opinion is up to yourself. No reason to read through the thread if you feel it's pointless and dumb, I'm sorry if I wasted your time.

Let me try and rephrase it for you: The Matrix Universe gained a lot and a vast number of open questions were answered by the second and last film. As a trilogy, the story archs and sub plots work out pretty well. Individually, the second and third film spend too much time with badly shot scenes with close to no substance while losing the ambition of being able to stand alone story wise. They still form one bigger unit which goes above and beyond the first film.

The ending of revolutions was so dark and awesomely fucked up that made up for the 2 sequels being shit.

>Reloaded was needed only to establish that the events within the triology are cyclical.(architect tv room).
>Possibly recursive too since Neo was able to affect robots "outside" the simulation and Smith could warp out.
>Actual protagonist trying to break the cycle gets annuhilated.
>Architect flat-out refuses to make a promise regarding the safety of Zion
>Simulation is restarted, the hivemind needs to harvest some sweet homunculus energy.
>Neo's body dragged somewhere by robots, probably perpetuating the cycle and taking us to square one.

>Everything is either uncertain or at its lowest possible point, but it's cool cos we just saw a mid-air fist fight stolen frame by frame from a Japanese cartoon, the guy we're supposed to cheer for won, and now soothing music is playing and we just saw a rainbow and shit and credits are rolling so its all good?

Brutal.

goddamn trinity was fine as fuck in the first movie. then they brought in belucci for reloaded and poor trin didn't stand a chance.

I see where you're coming from. There is one big difference in this 6th iteration though compared to the rest: for the first time Zion wasn't destroyed, the resistance was kept alive and there was a measure of peace between the robots and the inhabitants of Zion established that hadn't existed ever before. It's essentially the best possible outcome, considering the humans in the real world wouldn't even have the infrastructure to keep the billions of people plugged in alive, were they to wake up. Those are the facts.

Here's a perspective, open to criticism and discussion and definitely not fixed canon: It's the first step towards a new world, where everyone who wants to get out can get out and where machines might even realize that their ultimate goal and purpose is not necessarily to enslave humanity, considering they simply did that to stop the war and keep themselves active. Borrowing from The Animatrix, more specifically The Second Renaissance, humans were the bad guys in the war against the machines. They were the irrational aggressors.

being enthused about shitty movies is the epitome of redditness and tons of people like the Matrix sequels there.

That's what's decent about those movies... there is enough symbolism and the directors were competent enough to leave things to interpretation.

I haven't watched this triology in over a decade, but here's how I remember it:

1) Wasn't there over a dozen different screens in the architect's room showing multiple Neos? All making the same/similar response, but out of synch. We're told he's the 6th, but shit, he could be the 6th iteration to make it to that room a certain way. Shit, 138 other Neos could also have been there before, but he/they discovered their powers a different way or just cruised by thanks to useful sidekicks.
2) "Our" iteration of Neo doesn't heed the architect's advice either and fucks off to save Trinity too. You're assuming that this time it's all good because "our" Neo is the one, but who's to say this isn't the same cycle repeating itself? The variables aren't known, so we can't tell what is "different" this time, and can only trust the dialogue and the visuals being fed to us.
>The same applies to the magical city in the planet core. We have no known landmarks and/or decaying architecture to gauge how old this. Is it really "2050" or have thousands of years of the same shit passed, doomed to repeat itself.
>Or that the entire "human resistance" is a necessary kill-switch allowed by the AI itself to get rid of rogue sub-programs like agent Smith and rebooting?
>Wasn't part of the lore that The One disconnected himself from the matrix and founded the city? How comes my phone beeps when it's below 15% but an omnipotent God-king of the grey goo with unlimited flying search&destroy robots can't see that some cunt in pod V457Dx7449 disconnected himself but is still showing vital life signs.

3) I mean it's nice to show romantic optimism and whatnot, especially if you like the series, but it's one massive PSA for determinism raping any illusion of free will.

Comment too long, here's the kicker.

>Even if it does end on a high note and all the survivours (sans Neo who was dragged back by robots) live happily ever after with their new best friends, matter-consuming, compassionless murder-machines and an avatar of their Hive Essence flat out refusing to guarantee any safety of the humans).
>Supposing it does happen, Zion is being rebuilt off-screen, the future is bright, everyone is happy.
>Then years (perhaps months, weeks or even days since you really like the series) pass, you put the film back in the dvd/blueray player/launch the file, the first film launches, and cycle reciprocates itself, the protagonist is doomed to repeat the same mistakes and loses the same friends at the same times, and with no prior knowledge of how fucked up it all is. He has no power to change it, for he isnjust a character in a movie, and it is all doomed from the start, and a fate worse than hell. Only you can prevent this vicious cycle by not watching the same movie(s) for the fifty-eigth time, however you're too busy screaming "oh shit son! HIM AND MORPHEUS ARE FIGHTING IN A DOJO!!! WITH KATANAS!!!!!" Even though you have the choreography memorised by heart at this stage.

The Matrix was oke but the two sequels weresl really shit, bar that one dark implication. "Matrix". GODS, WHAT A STUPID NAAAAAME.

BOOOOOAAAAAAAAAAR.

people who hate matrix 2 & 3 don't really understand 1.

We can always assume everyone on screen is lying, but that would just overcomplicate things for no reason at all. If there's no clear reason to doubt what the film tells us, we shouldn't doubt it just to keep thinking. There's no logical reason for the Architect to be lying to Neo. We're not only told that Neo's the 6th iteration of The One, the Architect explicitely states that Zion has been destroyed five times before and that his love for Trinity is a first occurence. It is also strongly implied, that every reboot has followed the set rules and this is the first deviation, largely due to Neo being in love with Trinity compared to the more general love for humanity of Neo's predecessors.
Most of your questions are just unnecessary complications, I'll try and address them as short as possible.

>which year is it?
Does that really matter? It is heavily implied that Morpheus's view was wrong, so it is highly likely that about 500 years have passed instead of 100 since the installation of the Matrix. Still, not important. What does the year change?

>Human resistance is a kill switch against Smith
The human resistance is tolerated so red-pills don't actually pose a threat to the system. How the "return to the source" and "rebooting the matrix" works per protocol we do not know. We can assume that Neo has gained powers beyond what was usual for previous Ones simply because Morpheus is shocked several times even though he is closely familiar with the abilities of the previous One.

>The One founding Zion and being omnipotent
The One is said to have founded Zion, because after going to the source and rebooting the matrix that's his job. He establishes the false lore to keep things running for the sake of humanities survival. We have reason to believe that Neo's powers are slightly beyond what previous Ones did. Even if that's not the case, he decides to disobey the system when the previous Ones apparently didn't.

cont.

>tfw bobby posting is taking over

DUDE PLATO LMAO

cont.

We can assume that previous Ones never discovered how their abilities carried over to the real world, because they just rebooted the matrix like they were told.

>Neo being dragged back by robots
You can interpret that as a bad or dark thing, but especially with the music and the yellow spirit-level being pretty upbeat it's more like the machines value or appreciate how Neo saved them. There is not much logic to that, but that's how it's presented to the viewer.

>It's going to happen just like it did in the trilogy
As pointed out before, we are told several times throughout the sequels that this occurence of the systemic anomaly – Neo – is different from the previous iterations of the One.

>Matrix. What a stupid name.
Considering that's just an opinion, I'm completely fine with that. I think there's worse names around. What would your choice be for the name of an all-surrounding construct that has been planted into millions of brains? I'm genuinely curious, because I can't come up with a smart name for that.

I love this guy. Brilliant take.

I suggest fans of the Matrix read 'taking the red pill', great book that really digs deep into themes, readings and interpretations of the postmodern hellscape that is the Matrix. Thanks J Baudrillard.

Also: It really didn't get any better than Matriculated. Last animation on Animatrix by Peter Chung of Aeon Flux fame.

An eternity of subconscious robot mind rape. It doesn't get much darker than that.

THE BIG EVERYWHERE COMPUTER

Nice, made me smile. Thanks, user.

Not the guy you quote but OP, I'm really over reading up on the films, I did enough of that back when I was fascinated with it. I'm sure there's a lot of good material out there.

They're just shitty pop flicks

>Matrix. What a stupid name.

I was quoting Robert Baratheon's disdain with Lancels as a facetious way to end a long post, the name itself is pretty cool. Quite generic but at the same time unique and memorable.

The main point of that post was that the directors made it ambiguous on purpose, and that it's open to interpretation, you see an uplifting story where an everyman hero overcomes overwhelming odds to become the saviour of the human race, I see a gritty dystopian excercise in futility that (implies, without telling directly) there's a constant repetition of events, and that the heroes of the story are doomed from the start. Doesn't necessarily make it a bad story.
It's good that this can be interpreted either way, since they left it ambiguous enough. There's no Obi-Wan's ghost smiling at the camera as Will Smith lands the hellencopter after blowing up the mothership (which we see blaze up in the sky, in wide-angle lens, against the backdrop of famous landmarks).

I like the notion that they could have done that deliberately, so that every time you watch the triology, it's technically the same story in continuous recursive repetition, just different ones/neos/whatever.

There's certain a fucked up and jaded irony to that.

It's only interesting for people who have never read a book in their lives.

I couldn't catch that quote, I never read the books and stopped watching the show several seasons ago. My mistake.
Just like V for Vendetta, the idea of sacrificing yourself for something you personally believe in and think is right is something that seems important to the Wachowskis, even though it doesn't make for a good traditional happy ending.

I disagree, I especially enjoyed discovering references to things I had read. If you find the films boring due to having read it all before that's your personal approach and you're probably having a hard time enjoying films and books in general, as they all have certain repeating patterns after you read enough books and watched enough films.

>triology

from the rest of your post I assume you are being ironic and edgy, but damn, son... that's some edge.

>V for Vendetta.
It's a dystopian adaptation of Count Monte Cristo, decent enough but the original story kind of shits on it in every way.

>Two accomplices frame their young and charismatic underboss, who gets locked up for 20 years as a political prisoner in an island fortress with no trial. After 4 years of isolation, a monk in the next cave-cell digs through and they spend 16 years learning a wealth of knowledge and the location of hidden treasure.
>Protagonist escapes, amasses a fortune from the found treasure and uses it to travel the world and plan contrived Machiavellian schemes for revenge on the people who wronged him (they moved to Paris and worked themselves up to nobility)

Vs

>Hugo Weaving escapes retard hospital, squats in a mansion and strangles the people who wronged him because Jeremy Corbyn went mad with power, in a 90-minute infomertial ordered by a Chinese alloyed plastics company to sell Guy Fawked masks.

Cloud Atlas was the fucking bomb though. Jupiter Rising = ultimate shame.

Am not being edgy or ironic. If the OP really likes the Matrix, who's to say he doesn't rewatch the sequels as well.

The first Matrix was good but, the other two are fucking hot garbage.

>triology
>implying that's a word
user...

>terrible 'muh destiny' themed sci fi populated by nigs and BDSM fetishists, created by mentally ill tranny siblings
>pleb filters

Even the first one is massively overrated

More movies should have black pvc outfits

Eh. I wouldn't say too deep.
I would say too many people let their expectations and ideas about the series get in the way of enjoying the sequels ' actual story.

>choice and free will, ontological issues, Plato's cave analogy
I remember learning this shit in religion classes at Catholoc school like a year before Matrix came out.

>Not disabling auto-correct on all browsers and devices and accepting the notion that proofreading before posting is for pussies.

I also wrote "annuhulation", "isn" and pretty sure I unnecessarily used the word launch 2-3 times within one paragraph, stop being a grammar turbo-nigger.

IV. Iconography: A great number of shots are inspired by traditional iconography of the myths the films reference. The Jesus symbolism ranges from halos to central placement in relation to architecture and finally culminates in the resurrection of Trinity in a setting that strongly resembles an altar stone in Reloaded and the visual crucifixion of Neo by light in Revolutions. The focus on triangle compositions in lots of shots reinforces the trinity symbolism and again borrows heavily from traditional academic painting.

Thanks for the recommendation.

The 1960s short story "I have no mouth and I must scream" makes the eternal mind-rape seem like a weekend at a spa resort by comparison (didn't the chick willingly die anyway instead of keeping her consciousness inside the robot anyway?). It could have inspired the Animatrix episode.

The Wachowski are probably familiar with it, considering the line: "What good is a phonecall if you're unable to speak?" Followed by Neo's mouth disappearing before the agents forcefully insert something into his abdomen...

Reloaded has one of the best scenes in the trilogy. Neo meeting the Architect, once you realise the Architect isn't talking technobabble and is in fact talking perfect sense it becomes a sublime scene.

As a scene on its own it almost exclusively lives off your understanding of the dialogue and the story so far, so you'll have very different experiences depending on how well you understood the first movie and what you just saw in the second one. For many people the philosophical undertones and the perfect sense isn't apparent, maybe because they lack the understanding of the admittedly academic language the Architect is using.

I agree that it is a pretty strong scene, but as soon as you imagine not having seen the first film, it loses a lot of its meaning. I myself remember not fully understanding the dialogue when watching it for the first time and expecting advanced comprehension skills to follow the plot of a mainstream blockbuster is going to estrange at least part of the audience.

A movie cannot be philosophically deep. It's like when rap pretends to be poetry. Just play to the mediums strength instead of trying to do something that will always be inferior.

its like making a sequel to Fight Club. why would you do that? ruins the movie all together.

Loved the first Matrix...

The second and third installments were very well made technically speaking but they felt the need to one-up the special effects from the first one... and it was beautiful... but The Matrix holds up better due to less CGI.

I won't comment on plot or anything like that.. the Wachowskis dug deeper into the philosophical rabbit hole in Reloaded and even further for Revolutions...I never had the time to rewatch and unpack everything in detail...Superficially speaking, and style-wise, I enjoyed the gritty, rough aesthetics of the first film. The costumes just went to places I didn't like as well... I prefer The Matrix Neo's entire look (left) over the Reloaded new-age zen inspired and sleek minimalist look which kindof diminishes his masculinity and almost makes him A-sexual... which might have been what the W bros were looking for anyway... Neo unplugging from the Matrix and not conforming to it almost gradually dehumanizes him... the more naturally human he becomes the more robotic and systematic he acts as the trilogy goes on.

>Tldr: Overall... great achievement in aesthetics and story telling (just need to rewatch Reloaded and Revolutions to unpack the layers of meaning)... stylistically prefer The Matrix (first installment)

i was lucky enough to see the first and second matrix in theaters. i was high af during the mech shooting scene in the 2nd one lol shit was so cash.

the 3rd one i saw on tv and that shit sucked. he just becomes like god and flies through the robots and blows them up with his mind or some dumb shit i dont even remember

If The Architect was omnipotent and his goal was to guide the one to restart the program, why did he switch the doors if he knew Neo would choose the one that led to Trinity?

cus he wanted to watch them fuuuccckkkk. the architect was a freaky mofo

>he doesn't know

>tfw guts is the spiritual successor to Fight Club

they made a sequel?

there is so much in this movie just left in the back ground, you could literally wirte a book just about the subplots

youtube.com/watch?v=VdxAx3kYdWs

is it cus he wanted to fuck trinity? lul

The second two movies were blatantly vehicles for pseudo-academia intellectualism, identity crises issues, and look-what-I-can-do action scenes.

The Wachowskis took a shit in the middle of the beautiful house they built just so they could show everyone the weirdness of their shit. Last time I came over there wasn't shit on the floor, why is there now?

People who hate 2 & 3 had written imaginary sequels in their heads when they came to the end of 1. Since the real sequels violated their imaginary ownerships, they are forced, by dissonance, to take a shit on 2 and 3. It's a sign of herd behavior. Lack of self-awareness.

Architect scene is sole reason why brainlets over course of 13 years trying to meme Reloaded and Revolution into "bad and mediocre" movies.

t. raging brainlet

>bowling pin noises

I think the second movie is legit as good as the first, although we all agree that the rave scene should have been deleted and it wasn't necessary for Neo and Trinity to have sex they could have just kissed.

Its also interesting how mocked The Architect scenes were in its day. When late Millennials watch it they pretty much understand it because of all the internet they consumed. Even a phrase like vis-a-vis isn't too crazy to imagine a 19 year old understanding or even using in their speech today.

Also its pretty sad or maybe cool that The Matrix was so insanely close to what the not to distant future would be like, with all the mass shootings and really strange conspiracies of 2017 sometimes it feels like the media are just all Agent Smiths.

Also it appears that robots will someday replace us all and we'll be better off inside a pod giving energy to robots than doing anything else living our lives in a simulation.

If you told people to join The Matrix because there was no racism/sexism there I am certain most people would do it.

ima re watch the 3rd one. either its so shitty i completely forgot what even happened, or i was too dumb/bored to know what was going on

I don't think you are right about Zion because The Architect DID promise to allow humans to break free from The Matrix as part of the deal of rescuing the robots he says to The Oracle "Of course I will. What am I, human?"

>he thinks the matrix isnt real

i got some bad news for you bud

Within the sequence of the trilogy, you can see the further fall in degeneracy of the wondoloskys which coincides with the fall in quality

they were filmed at the same time retard

test post

It's like making a sequel to Donnie Darko. Why would you do that? Ruins the movie altogether

this is why isis and the taliban exist. they aint gettin no hoes.

Matrix - 10/10
Animatrix - 9/10
Reloaded - 9/10
Revolutions - 3/10

>"i wanna be rich, you know someone important. like an actor"

hehe nice meta joke there ;)

Is there a worse scene in the history of cinema than the Reloaded cave rave scene?

>dumbed down by the studio to the point that they literally were made to be action schlock and completely steer away from the original intended direction
>pleb filters
You're one of those pretentious wankstains who'd bump into discarded cleaning supplies in an art gallery and stand looking at it for ten minutes talking about the artist's intentions to your hipster friends in an attempt to appear deep and insightful.

>cypher is part of the entire control scheme, he's purposed to fall in love with trinity and feel so much like shit that he sells out thus triggering's neo's awakening
talk about a shit life

reloaded 9/10 jesus christ kid

Matrix - 9/10
Reloaded- 8/10
Revolutions 6/10
It's mostly the overzealous focus on Zion in Revolutions that brings it down for me -I'm completely fine with all the major plot points,

The problem with the second and third film was that they relied too much on action that fell almost like filler whereas the original movie felt like it had a perfect balance of action and plot to go on.

The third movie shouldn't have lasted as long as it did. They kept the themes of the original for sure but if you ask me the first movie is great if it was a stand alone movie. Pic related seemed to understand that and is also pretty good.

>Luther in the Warriors just being an agent of chaos
Someone wasn't paying attention

Just a reminder that according to canon the truce between the Machines and Zion breaks down when the Machines discover, by way of Cypherite renegades, that the humans are building a second hidden Zion, leading to war breaking out again.

>The Matrix Online
>Canon
user...