Who was right?

Who was right?

Both of them were, but for different reasons.

mask dude: memes
blue nigger: real shit

considering how cynicism and materialism is killing society, I'll go with Rorschach

Faggot

deontology. human's shouldn't play god.

The argument Rorschach was making seemed to be more about giving people the right of self determination even if it meant the whole world killing itself versus Manhattan and Veidt's view which was that if some sort of superhuman entity was able to intervene in the world's destruction that would be fine, even if it meant killing a shitload of people in the process.

Both sides have their merits but I think I side more with Rorschach.

Hear me out but maybe at the end of it all the best thing to do really would have been to let it all play out instead of having Manhattan (seemingly) interfere again, have Ozy not prevent anything and just let the war happen.
For better or worse it would have been humans making human mistakes and you don't learn not to touch the stove until you burn your hand on it. Maybe we survive the cold war thanks to Ozy framing Manhattan but no peace lasts forever, what if the next conflict is even more devastating than the realities of nuclear exchanges between superpowers? That time there wont be a big guy with his big blue schlong to blame, what if Ozy killed millions to save billions but in not allowing us to learn as a species from the deaths of billions set in motion the chain of events that leads to our total extinction?
I've never really thought about Rorscach being right before but seeing as Manhattan meddling was what was causing the cold war to go hot in the first place, maybe the last thing we should have done is utilise him again to try and stop it. Letting it run on could have been the permanent if painful solution to Ozy's potentially lethal quick fix.

Fucking nigger

Rorschach
Alan Moore said that he doesn't believe that violence is justified even to achieve a good cause. That said, both characters are fucking insane.

>insane
>calling insane characters like Dr Manhattan or Rorschach because doesnt fit your morality
>not having a vision of live based on that everything is fine or bad depends of the vision you apply to that
This website is for people under 18 years old

>under
I mean over, fucking alcohol

The Comedian

Basically this
Manhattan took up his role as a god with the power to preserve life and create it. Life is the miracle that has given all of existence meaning to him and is a miracle worth preserving at all cost. The truth getting out is irrelevant because living things cant understand the truth as he knows it, time being non linear and various other quantum truths. Rules dont matter to a man who can walk on the sun, what matters is what is what seems almost impossible to him.
Rorschach takes up what his role is, to absolutely do what he considers the values of man. Life isnt what is worthwhile, it is the value of a free individual living according to certain absolute rules that make man a worthwhile thing. Men who do not follow these laws are not men and deserve to die as animals. These values are the only thing that make mortal things worth anything. So justice must be upheld even in the face of the end of the world, because that is what is valuable about the world.

>tfw people finally start using Rorschach/violent superhero justice IRL
>instead of people beating up criminals, rapists, pedos, drug dealers, etc. who've gotten away with their crimes continually or who the police can't catch, it's fucking greasy mentally deficient antifa teenagers beating up retards from Sup Forums

Why is this timeline so cursed

BIG BLUE COCK

Manhattan could have got rid of all the uranium on the planet so the whole argument is retarded.

Even if we accept that the nukes would fly, the only way any president russia or american would fire is if they thought they could survive. Manhattan could have just told them he'd come kill them in their bunkers if they started the war.

Dr manhatten isn't utilitarianism, that's Ozymandias

>some people die but world peace
or
>noninterference resulting in global annihilation
Rorschach was wrong

but in reality no nukes were fired so we know for certain that ozy is actually a mass murdering retard

>/fit/ egged on by /fa/ vs Sup Forums

Rorschach represents the pinnacle of American values. He stands for capitalism, democracy, and follows the classical liberal (close to modern libertarian) ethic. Though he feels that breaking the non-aggression principle justifies the same in return, he ultimately wants liberty and justice for all.

He understood Veidt, Manhattan, and even the Comedian's points of view. But he came to his own conclusions, wanting the fate of humanity to rest in the hands of human beings rather than narcissistic, inhuman supermen.

Even if Manhattan was right, it wasn't his choice to make. That's what Rorschach stood for.

>democracy
>american value
lel

>some people die but world peace
world peace isn't guranteed. Remember at the end of the story Rorschach mails his journal to the newspaper.

>democracy, and follows the classical liberal (close to modern libertarian) ethic

lel.

modern liberals are represented by Ozymandias. Rorschach is supposed to represent a hardline close minded kantian conservative. At the end of the day the only thing that matters to him is justice.

Rorschach.

CLASSICAL LIBERAL. You dumb cunt.

So is anyone annoyed that these two characters will be coming into the main DC universe in the next couple of months, and not left as their own separate thing?

>>noninterference resulting in global annihilation
proof?

The Comedian

I can't believe they left out the Space Squid.

Cuckold

This

...

Hitler.

he agrees with ozy at the end though.

Utilitarianism reduces people to numbers, it is literally the most autistic philosophy out there.

Rorschach was right.

>Doc is supposed to smartest in the world.
>Doesn't realises human will always fight amongst themselves irrespective of the advancement of the Civilisation. Whatever peace there is will be short lived.
>Let millions die for a failed cause.
What a pleb.

The Comedian is Sup Forums and Rorschach is /r9k/

>Doc is supposed to smartest in the world.

When did anyone ever even suggest that. He's just omnipotent that doesn't necessarily make him smart/wise. Also he didn't "let" them die, he was getting all fucked by the tachyons at the time, remember?

>The Comedian

who the fuck would actually believe some alt right cuck who everyone knew as lunatic then the liberal possible homosexual ozy? only the fringe would buy into it but msm would not give it a thought

Came to post this.

That's not the point. The point is that peace is ALWAYS temporary

Ozy was the only one who was right

kill yourself faggot

nice post m8. quality.

He doesn't agree, he understands his motivation to do what he did. At that point, he thought doing nothing was the best course of action since people had already died. Letting the truth out would've meant that people died AND there wouldn't be any peace, even if it is temporary.

Ink Blot's logic is that people have the right to self-determination. If Manhatten truly agreed with that he wouldn't have sided with Ozy, but he doesn't and because of that it fundamentally means he agrees with Ozy. A true believer in self-determination would do what Ink-Blot did

Manhattan was right, futa isn't gay

>f Manhatten truly agreed with that he wouldn't have sided with Ozy, but he doesn't and because of that it fundamentally means he agrees with Ozy.
I understand why you'd think that, but I don't agree. I think Dr. Manhattan was being pragmatic, since Ozy had already succeeded in his plan. He might have preferred NOT to explode a shitton of people, but the damage had been done already. What good would letting the truth out do?

it could have been the GOAT comic book casting, if only fassbender was known at the time

fuck

Manhattan

>post the centrist opinion, the always correct opinion
>get namecalled

inb4 muh grey morality is gay argument

>centrist
>always correct

What good would it have done? You mean give the Earth the true reason why hundreds of millions people just died? A beautiful lie is still a lie and no self-actualization can come from ignorance - thus no self determination is possible.

I see the point you are making, but you're not seeing mine and that's my fault. I'm not explaining it the right way I guess.

The point I'm trying to make is that Manhattan is allowed to disagree with both Ubernmench and Ink Man; disagreeing with Rorschach's self determination viewpoint doesn't automatically mean he agrees with Ozy's "a few dead people justify the greater good" view.

I side with Rorschach, too. If we're unable to confront the obstacles that stop us from reaching a better future, we don't deserve one. An imaginary distraction doesn't solve a damn thing.

Rorschach.
Only "communism looked good on paper" fags say manhatten

Peace born out of fear is the most fragile and brittle type of peace. Ozymandias was a fool to think it would last.

Cuckchach is pleb tier and has stupid agenda. He is an edgy kid with mommy-whore issues and hitlord butt-mad angst
Manhattan is literally le reddit hero

Both are shit and was never truly right

Fun fact is its the villain who was the most reasonable among them

t. short-sighted fool

>rorschach
>r9k
but how
rorschach never complains about how he was wronged by society

He gave the world an ultimate enemy to unite against. To be foolish is to think that LE TRUTH or LE JUST or DEMOCRACY can actually mean something when the whole shit is about survival or total annihilation of life.

An unjust peace is better than a just war.(c) - Marcus Tullius Cicero

Grow up.

The real joke is that you think this ""unjust peace"" will last a meaningful amount of time.

A paranoia and fear-based peace is bound to crash harder than any other.

Millions of people have died for absolutely nothing.

Peace never lasts. Nothing ever ends.

See:Stalin's reign

Do burgers schools just put on Fox News and CNN in lieu of political education?

We teach that nazis are the bad guys and nothing of the communist regimes.
Which is why we have lefty shit lords like antifa.

>Stalin's reign
Oh fuck off

Strong argument.

>The real joke is that you think this ""unjust peace"" will last a meaningful amount of time.
There are no evidences in the movie that it won't
Besides the Rorschach's journal of course but that actually just means that it is HE who is the real villain and a threat to any peace.

Millions of people dying for a few years of peace and a chance, however small, to improve things vs. end of civilization and billions of dead.
Gee what a hard call to make

>There are no evidences in the movie that it won't
t. knows nothing of human history
Even the movie's ending says the ""peace"" is shaky.

Stalin's reign has nothing to do with the current discussion. Why the fuck are you westcucks libshits always pull " Le Stalin"? Were your grangrandma GULAGED there?

>vs. end of civilization and billions of dead.
Why, because you say so? Look at how the Cold War turned out.

>""peace"" is shaky.
Its still better than the radioactive wasteland ending.

>the Cold War
It turned out we don't need to have cold war to still be on the brink of a nuclear war

>he actually thinks we're on the brink of nuclear war
lmao

just like we're in a radioactive wasteland right now, yeah?

in the comic Ozy asks Manhatten if he did the right thing

Manhatten simply says "nothing ever ends"

it is foolish to believe in an endgame. there is no perfect end to history like technocrats and social engineers like Francis Fukiyama believe. there will always be reason for another change or conflict. the important thing is reducing the damage of the conflict or using the strife and change to improve the lives of the future humanity

do you anons ever feel isolated?

What

>you don't learn not to touch the stove until you burn your hand on it
I dunno maybe it is amerishart culture or the way their brain functions, but I and everyone I ever met knows to not touch the stove BE-FO-RE you burn your hand.

Watchmen is so fucking shit and It attracts the worst kind of people. Atleast the original comic has some impressive paneling and it preceded getting comics to improve as a whole, but the movie is pointless trite and anyone who gives a fuck about the characters or watchmen "mythos" is always a clown

The only impressive thing about Watchmen is the writing which is all thanks to Moore being so talented, but this doesnt automatically salvage everything around it and your average watchmen "fan" doesnt even fucking know the difference between writing and plot

Why do you dislike Watchmen so much?

I dont dislike it "so much". Im neutral in a vacuum but people overpraising it to no end causes me to appropriately counter it

The writing is good, the paneling was innovative, thats it. The dialogue like in this thread that can spawn from the philosophical standoff is admittedly intriguing but the source material achieves this in the worst way possible. If Alan Moore wanted to do a "parody" or a debunking of superheroes, he failed by making yet another "cool" universe. Although the comic does this far less than the movie, it clearly does enough to start the chain reaction. Kick-Ass (albeit comedy/ action rather than political thriller/drama) achieves this in a far less pretentious manner. When you tear away the shell of "cool superhumans fighting" watchmen as a story is nothing. It lessens the story by using crutches like Dr. Manhattan or Ozymandias being nigh superhuman, and then we have the millions of young adults who dont even give a fuck about anything but how cool Rorschack and the Comedian were. Watchmen is probably the easiest thing for me to point at when people are asking about childish things parading as mature. As much as Moore seems to dislike the killing joke, even that sells him as an artist far more than Watchmen does in its cruel "slice of life" crime tale taken to the extreme

yeah right

>Watchmen is so fucking shit
>I dont dislike it "so much". Im neutral in a vacuum but people overpraising it to no end causes me to appropriately counter it

I don't disagree with what you said about Watchmen, but "countering" it by saying it's shit isn't doing anyone any kind of favor. I see this happen a lot in Sup Forums, people overinsulting something just because someone else likes it.

how can you feel isolated arguing with dumb faggots everyday

You are humanitarian right?
You can't think in the terms of the given setting. Think in the terms of the world in the movie. You still trying to apply rules of the fictional world on our world.
It won't work here.
We don't have blueskin jesus here.
In the Watchmen world Manhattan is actually the only major thing that set in motion all it because soviets were afraid of him.

nice bait

If manhattan was omni-everything and shit why didn't he just teleport around the world and take all the world's nukes to mars?

Because he didn't want to.

The same reason he didn't stop the Comedian from killing that pregnant woman in Vietnam. For all the Dr.'s pandering, he ultimately doesn't give a shit about humanity.