So why do you think muslims stopped developing? The middle east used to be a place of envy, now its just embarrassing part of the planet. Its surprising to think about how much more developed intellectually muslims were in middle ages than now, and they had balanced view on life. I have a theory that it may have had something to do with integration of persians into new islamic empire that balanced out the arab man's desire to hark back to simple nomadic life. Even now you see it play out like this. Saudi arabia with all its wealth, hasnt done anything in realm of science or art, but Iran though theocracy at least tries to.
Heres a quote by Patton:
>"To me it seems certain that the fatalistic teachings of Muhammad and the utter degradation of women is the outstanding cause for the arrested development of the Arab. He is exactly as he was around the year 700, while we have kept on developing"
Arbas weren't great thinkers, scientists, or mathematicians like you have been told. They were conquerors who stole the advancements of other cultures and played an important intermediary role in preserving those things from the ancient world until Europeans took them up again and continued the progress. That's the most they deserve credit for.
Zachary Sullivan
And the europeans havent stole advancement from ancient civilizations? This is not a winning argument. Before Islam's conquering, arabs were just barbarians, clearly ideas such as islam helped them advance and yes, had them "steal" and further develop from other cultures. Big names in science were arab, first mention of human evolution came from arab. There was a culture pot recipe back then that worked to the benefit of all. That is lost now.
Gavin Peterson
Some high priest or immam at the time came to power and said manipulating numbers is the work of the devil. > fast forward 1000 years ALLAH AKKBAR
Justin Young
We had god by our side , you did nothing
Mason Long
It's like socialism, really. Arabs expanded and looted the wealth created by others. When it finally ran out or was destroyed, they were incapable of getting it back.
Asher Lewis
>le Islamic le golden age may may xdddd
Evan Smith
Mongols. They are the singular reason the middle east and east asia stagnated for at least 500 years. Basically europes dominance is due to that fact. Its just europes luck
Connor Reyes
the religion itself has degenerated. islam is and has been, in it's own "dark ages" for a VERY long time now, following the days where they preserved the knowledge of the greeks and shit. that is long gone and these days science is heresy. partially to blame of course is the islamic leaders, and the people who set the narrative, mainly the heads of iran and Saudi Arabia. All in the name of keeping the status quo and expanding their political influence while keeping people under their thumb, it has led to them stifling growth because it might cause changes. And changes might mean westernization, and they dont want that because then the US and Europe have influence.
islam and islamic people are basically being held back by their leadership, which has caused the religion to stagnate and go backwards for their own purposes.
After all, Saudi Arabia peddles its hardline islam not because the royals actually believe in it, but because it works in it's favor. It keeps them in power, and it creates anti-western militant forces that function ideologically instead of politically or rationally.
Evan Turner
Persia
Nicholas Thompson
>There is little agreement on the precise causes of the decline, but in addition to invasions by the Mongols and crusaders, and the destruction of libraries and madrasas, there is evidence that political mismanagement and the stifling of ijtihad (independent reasoning) in the 12th century in favor of institutionalised taqleed (imitation) thinking played a part. The caliph al-Mutawakkil (r. 847–861) enforced a more literal interpretation of the Qur'an and Hadith. Science and rationalism were dismissed in favor of revelation, and Greek philosophy was condemned as anti-Islamic.
Muslims were always shit. No work ethic, just lie, cheat, steal, kill and loot.
Colton White
In order of importance: >Salt and erosion fucking up irrigation in the ME leading to massive crop failures forcing people to become nomadic herders instead of farmers >Mongols burning every city from Samarkand to Alexandria to the ground >End of the Medieval warm period fucking the climate even further ( less rain because of NAO shenanigans) >The publication of "On the incoherence of philosophers" which doesn't discard philosophy and science by itself but is horribly misinterpreted by the general public
>inb4 no replies because Sup Forums prefers memes to facts
Joseph Martinez
This. His name was al Ghazali
Benjamin Hughes
Islam is the only major religion who doesn't believe their god is coming back. It's really that simple. There's no reward possible for them in this life so they have to remake the world to fit Muhammed's guideline in order to earn a reward in the next. There are no miracles or karma possible for them on earth, for Muslims, their god on earth is quite literally dead and never returning.
Eli Nelson
Islam firstly, inbreeding secondly. Certain sects of Islam highly discourage scientific thought. With a lot of the Middle East being theocratic states, this proves troublesome.
Ever see a Middle Eastern Islamic country accomplish anything scientifically? Not since the before the dark ages.
Ever see an islamic society score high in the olympics? Of course not.
And so on.
Jack Sanchez
The guy who lead the world into a new epic scientific world was a Englishmen named Roger Bacon in the 12th century
Jaxson Parker
Mongols and turks.
Juan Myers
They stopped because they ran out of other people's money. The caliphates were funded by conquering and taxing. They stopped conquering and thus ending the 'golden age of Islam' which truly brought forth interesting ideas and literature, architecture and so on. But again it was only because they bled their conquered peoples dry.
Also incest
Ryder Russell
t. butthurt sandnigger
Brayden Watson
t. Sunni
Zachary Cox
>fugging euro lucker dogs >t. rest of the world
Brayden Myers
When the Mongols sacked Baghdad.
William Perry
No, that's an often heard excuse though. Mongols played a part in it, but they are not the reason why the Muslim world stopped developing and stayed that way. Muslims would have eventually bounced back and continued but the Muslim world itself had changed. Basically, Muslims shot themselves in the leg when they started to see science as something that puts you further away from God.
Hunter Evans
Yeah, must be mongols. The same mongols who sacked and plundered China, which remained light-years ahead of the Islamic World.
Jose Kelly
>implying moving past the year 700 hasnt turned the west into a bunch of feminists and cuckolds
you're just jealous I get to actually have sex with my wife while you cry about the big black cock in yours, faggot.
Ayden Bennett
>before Islam arabs were just barbarians >what is mesopotamia >what is Babylon >what is Assyria >what is Egypt
fucks sake man. Islam has been a hinderance more than anything, you only had one or two heydays with your caliphates, and even those were kinda crappy as far as empires go.
And the contributions Greeks and Romans made were indispensible, not just to sciences, but their completely natively developed ideas of democracy, and political/philosophical views.
Carter Evans
U make me sad mehmet
John Wilson
I think it was the Vatican and invention of "controlled opposition". Abrahamic sky fairy cult general, it's all the same and cannot be denied it spreads like a cancer, the assorted tumors may appear different at first glance but it is all part of the same malignancy. The west was well down the path into the dark ages by the time the sand people spawned their holy lands prophet of holy doom, holy rape and holy war.
Luke Morales
WE
Ian Evans
democracy is just a liberal code word for "letting the weak have their way". it is nothing but harmful to society and is a jewish tool to suppress the alpha male.
Tyler Cooper
WUZ
Leo Taylor
>Bacon >The bane of all muslims Really makes me think...
Levi Brown
If you guys dropped Islam, the arab world would transform immediately.
Government, politicians, and economists bend over backwards to make muslims look good lmfao, when in reality the diagnosis is simple. It's islam.
Get rid of fucking Islam. Fuck.
Isaiah Cooper
Those old Muslims knew the scientific teachings in the Quran are bullshit.
Then Muslims started taking their Quran seriously and now believe the science written in it.
Benjamin Miller
Avorroesand many likeminded progressives were rejected by the religious scholars. After few centuries of translating and reading classic works, just when they started to add somethingnew of their own, such as Avicenna's floating man analogy, cunningly similar to Descartes' cogito ergo sum, fucking conservative scholars codified sharia, made it more and more strict, thanks to Ibn Teymiyya and people of the same ilk,they collectively fucked up the progress,
Zachary Jenkins
In Europe, the Enlightenment happened, which was followed by an incredible cultural revolution.
Well, the Enlightenment didn't happen in the Middle East until the late 19th-early 20th century.
However, the implosion of the Ottoman Empire, coupled with the constant instability in the area inhibited the progress of the region, and the recent complete destabilization of the Middle East (Palestine + Israel + Iraq + Syria + Yemen) will lock them up in 50 other years of trying to become stable again.
Pity that all the successful neo-ba'athist nations (Iraq, Libya, Syria) were "liberated" by the west, if you know what I mean. Education was thriving in Iraq and was the priority of the government.
Nathan Brown
Christian Lebanese here.
Should I be proud of Middle-Eastern accomplishments of the past, or is it all a facade?
John Young
Sad, but true. Have a you.
Jordan Morgan
>An increase in the influence of women in public life has often been associated with national decline. The later Romans complained that, although Rome ruled the world, women ruled Rome. In the tenth century, a similar tendency was observable in the Arab Empire, the women demanding admission to the professions hitherto monopolised by men. ‘What,’ wrote the contemporary historian, Ibn Bessam, ‘have the professions of clerk, tax-collector or preacher to do with women? These occupations have always been limited to men alone.’ Many women practised law, while others obtained posts as university professors. There was an agitation for the appointment of female judges, which, however, does not appear to have succeeded. Soon after this period, government and public order collapsed, and foreign invaders overran the country. The resulting increase in confusion and violence made it unsafe for women to move unescorted in the streets, with the result that this feminist movement collapsed. - The Fate of Empires
tl;dr Arabs are fucked today up because feminism, and feminism is the dying gasp of a nation
Landon Stewart
Mongols fucking destroyed them and they never recovered
Jaxon Robinson
Jewish humor is the best.
James Walker
Yep, always be proud of what your ancestors accomplished, but stay realist on the situation of your country now.
Honestly, I think the problem doesn't lie with islam but with arabs. North Africa was way better off than the Middle East at the end and after Islam's golden age. The conquerors of Al-Andalus weren't arabs either.
Berber master race
Andrew Wood
Berbers and Persians maybe. Arabs have more problems than Islam.
Chase Lewis
>Enlightenment didn't happen in the Middle East until the late 19th-early 20th century It never happened at all. Islamic countries (the hint is in the name) regularly reject a humanist basis for human rights in favor of a scriptural one and secularism remains a fringe movement. Enlightenment ideals are foreign to levantine cultures (in the maghreb slightly less so, probably due to colonial influence).
Adrian Reyes
>I have a theory that it may have had something to do with integration of persians into new islamic empire
Stopped reading there
Jason Diaz
Define "enlightenment ideals", please. And while we are at it "European values" aswell.
Nicholas Sullivan
I know, I know, >The Guardian But even if the introduction and the conclusion are trash, the article itself is pretty factual.
What middle-eastern accomplishment? Muhammed and his successors were by all accounts good warlords, but dunecoons have never actually achieved anything outside of that.
Even the Ottoman empire invented jack shit.
Jeremiah Moore
>So why do you think muslims stopped developing? Muslims live in the south and global warming altered their development
Chase Hall
This. Everyone who says otherwise don't know what they're talking about. By 13. Century Baghdat was the capital of education. Nezamiyeh madrasahs had no rival in the world. They were the leading institutions of high education. In 1265 Hulagu razed the city, butchered more than 200,000 civilians. Baghdat was a desolation for centuries to come. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nezamiyeh
Liam Long
muslims had all the trade wealth of the east up to india... the silk road... ancient knowledge n shieet.... pretty much gibmedat paradise. Europeans had to struggle whilst they had it easy... eventually leading to Europeans pawning them.
Matthew White
oil fucked you up, that's why people this that bosniaks are only cool muslims, because they don't have oil (only pyramids)
Thomas Long
The middle east is a shithole and always will be because the people there are stupid and quick to violence. Any culture that feels violence is the only answer to any problem will never develop.
Jeremiah Sanders
And you sadniggers just need mo money for dem progroms so you can compete with whitey, right?
Get'a load of this roach right here.
Owen Jackson
Oh right. All of a sudden, the mongols are to blame! I can't tell how often I have heared from roaches, both here and from you posting on this board how you are proud decendants of Genghis! #hailTengri
Make up your mind.
Joshua Powell
>bosniaks >cool muslims
What are you doing in Serbia and just why haven't you been lynched yet?
Nicholas Watson
...
Josiah White
I didn't say I think that way, I said people of color, like brits, danish or swedes
Aiden Long
That's not how it works
Can only really be used when comparing why european steel was better than asian steel (europe had wheat while asia had rice, and with the development of better wind/watermills, they could get higher temperatures when blacksmiths were melting shit)
refugees or "refugees"? Contributing if it's the latter
Ethan Russell
>Muslims >Developing It's literally heresy for every Ishmaelite to develop since Quran is complete life guide with static dogma that cannot be understood differently than it was 631 AD.
Caleb Wood
>they started to see science as something that puts you further away from God
What made them go that route though? Religion is a form of control which, as history has proven, good leadership doesn't need.
What made Arab leadership so bad that religion was the only way to keep their empire together? Maybe foreign influence?
Ryan Morris
Mongols+degeneracy+ weakening of their blood by importing nigger slaves
Jayden Howard
That's easy
Lucas Watson
>Make up your mind. Don't confuse me with those circlejerk teenagers. I happen to be well educated in history. I'm not shilling islam or arabs. I present the facts.
Colton Kelly
>implying we have any genuine refugees except for a really tiny minority
All the genuine war refugees who just desire safety and not gibsmedats and sluts stay in Turkey or Lebanon and don't pay thousands to smuglers to get into Europe. The rest are pawns in Soros and other leftcucks games.
Josiah Edwards
And inbreeding too
Chase Evans
They never started. They conquered intellectually advanced people and these people made the advances, not the Arabs who conquered them. Eventually the process of the Islamification of these societies was completed and progress stopped.
Julian Parker
To be a conqueror, you first have to have a fairly advanced civilisation. They had agriculture, a calendar, metallurgy, sailing, animal husbandry, medicine, trade and commerce, they communicated with other cultures, then along came a goat fucking, paedophiliac warlord who united them and empired, and when he died they balkanised and stubbornly refused to advance past the mediaeval age.
Isaiah Perez
No difference desu. Take your criminals back or we will nuke the shit out of your shitholes.
Also SAGE for Sand Nigger Thread
Brayden Brooks
Mongols.
/thread
Thomas Martin
Yeah, yeah, I know.
>ibn taymiyyah >literally one of the principal influences of the wahhabite school of thought >refused any innovation in religious dogma
He was a fucking faggot
>Moroccans >refugees Austria wat
Logan Evans
There was a muslim cleric that was very antiscience. For some reason people started listening and all progress stalled. Basically the more people tried to add to the teachings of Islam the worse it got. I think black science man had a video about it on jewtube.
Jaxon Foster
>>Mongols burning every city from Samarkand to Alexandria to the ground That is so made up, they never went to alexandria
Carter Gonzalez
The middle east was the center of civilizations until the modern period All the way from Babylon to the Islamic golden age
>inb4 hurr durr German cuck afraid of Turkish alpha
They are the equivalent of niggers. I've personally seen some of them where I lift. Sometimes I wonder, if you guys are ashamed how they trash up the image of Turkey in Europe completely.
Jaxson Robinson
White racism. It's literally keeping us from literally being on mars right now. Without whites we would literally be better off
Chase Murphy
>muslims fuck off, the Persians were the ones who ACTUALLY achieved.
Blake Lopez
There are some diasporas that are like that. Dutch Moroccans also offer a terrible image of Moroccans in Europe (they refuse to integrate and there's a big communitarianism / teenager gangs issue there). They are hated in both Morocco and Netherlands for being apes.
The issue is a little better in France, but there's a ton of north african trash that far outweighs the good persons.
It's almost entirely due to inbreeding. The arabic race is ruined because of 1400 years of inbreeding. That's how you explain the golden age; their blood had not yet degenerated.
Bentley White
Many of those civilizations you mentioned are not Arab civilizations.
Although they have become Arab-ized genetically and culturally due to the Islamic conquests.
Jace Diaz
>To be a conqueror, you first have to have a fairly advanced civilisation. Mongols say high
Carson Cox
Yes... >crime statistics of Germoney
Sebastian Cook
>Islam is the only major religion who doesn't believe their god is coming back. It's really that simple. There's no reward possible for them in this life so they have to remake the world to fit Muhammed's guideline in order to earn a reward in the next. There are no miracles or karma possible for them on earth, for Muslims, their god on earth is quite literally dead and never returning.
That makes sense, islam relies on a points system where doing more good deeds than bad will get you to heaven. If one is suicidal he would need to be a jihadist to leave this world with positive points. There is no redeemtion and original sin is non existant. Its all about afterlife, but at same time, islam does encourage discovery in this life the same way it is for jews.
Leo Parker
Kek. I didn't even know they existed. They look like ciclejerking meatheads to me.
Bentley Johnson
>The middle east used to be a place of envy Before muslims >now its just embarrassing part of the planet. After muslims.
James Green
Because they have become a herd. They believe what they are told and they despise what they are told.
They've no individuality and they've no thought for progress, seen as too 'western'.
And what caused this I wonder....
Cameron Jones
arabs have a low iq and are inbred i dont really need many extra reasons
Brody Hall
The funniest part is the Muslim Arabs look down upon non-Arab Muslims as "inferior".
Mason Hernandez
>>An increase in the influence of women in public life has often been associated with national decline. The later Romans complained that, although Rome ruled the world, women ruled Rome. In the tenth century, a similar tendency was observable in the Arab Empire, the women demanding admission to the professions hitherto monopolised by men. ‘What,’ wrote the contemporary historian, Ibn Bessam, ‘have the professions of clerk, tax-collector or preacher to do with women? These occupations have always been limited to men alone.’ Many women practised law, while others obtained posts as university professors. There was an agitation for the appointment of female judges, which, however, does not appear to have succeeded. Soon after this period, government and public order collapsed, and foreign invaders overran the country. The resulting increase in confusion and violence made it unsafe for women to move unescorted in the streets, with the result that this feminist movement collapsed. >- The Fate of Empires >tl;dr Arabs are fucked today up because feminism, and feminism is the dying gasp of a nation
I hate to admit this, but not just rome got ruined by women attaining ultimate power. It was Ottoman Empire as well. Read it up. The haram were the ones in control, the actual kingmakers, the caliphs were puppets to them.
Logan Perry
Mongols weren't just a bunch of fucking savages. They had all the advancements I mentioned in my post except not so much the sailing. They had the first postal service, which the yanks copied, ever heard of the Pony Express? They innovated siege engines and were among the first to use gunpowder for weapons.
Nathan Williams
Checked >and
Bentley Price
>and also
Unfortunately not only the cunts who are responsible for it will end up under shariah law and the niqab.
>What made them go that route though? Religion is a form of control which, as history has proven, good leadership doesn't need. >What made Arab leadership so bad that religion was the only way to keep their empire together? Maybe foreign influence?
At the time the spanish Inquistan was taking place. But before it was the crusades. Maybe it was fear that surely the middle east will be invaded by christians and islam will be history. Science and knowledge wasnt gonna protect peoples beliefs and traditions. I know people then were traumatized by crusades, at least the mongols had no religion. Could be something else entirely.
Easton Bell
>They never started. They conquered intellectually advanced people and these people made the advances, not the Arabs who conquered them. Eventually the process of the Islamification of these societies was completed and progress stopped.
Who knows, that could be it or not. If people had a taste of enlightment why would they chose strict form of religion that stops development? There must have been some practical reward for this change.
Connor Hill
Sorry, I can't read this source. Spiegel, Tagesspiegel, Welt, most of FAZ, most of Focus, SZ, Zeit. It is bad for my "blood pressure".
Anyway, we will see what they are made of during the elections.
