At what exact moment did GOT turn to complete shit? I personally think when Stannis burned Shireen

At what exact moment did GOT turn to complete shit? I personally think when Stannis burned Shireen.

Literally no point in watching after that.

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When Ned died.

This
Sean Bean was carrying that whole season

fpbp

That was the best part. Is there anything sexier than the sounds of a little girl screaming in pain? It just makes me rock hard.

I can agree to this. The Eddard scenes are all great in S1.

youtube.com/watch?v=vEB5t1qRdmY

When Barristan died I literally stopped watching the rest of the season.

Carried on watching it with my roommates next season but I never enjoyed it again.

Season 2 when they derailed from A Clash of Kings like Granpda Tywin in Harrenhal, Talisa, Daenerys in Qarth, and no Ramsay/Reek in Winterfell with Theon.

Yes S2 was when it really went off the rails.

They replaced Robb's wife with a 21th century spunky feminist because they thought a romance story would be more interesting than Robb's honor bringing on his downfall. All they achieved was showfags hating Robb for being a horny kid when in the books he's portrayed more as a victim of his circumstances that try to do the honorable thing even if it's not the smartest thing. There is so much character lost there.

It was already declining in quality but when Miss Andy and Grey Worm showed up and had whole scenes of dialogue is when It killed it for me. That's when it went full soap opera for women. They started focusing on relationships and love stories more than plot and political intrigue.

I have no idea why D&D fucked over Robb so much in the show. They made him into a retard who pissed away his Frey alliance for Essos pussy.

I nearly stopped watching when Littlefinger died, however I gave up watching when the wall fell.

My guess would be that they saw a character who fangirls would find very attractive so they basically reduced him to a girl fantasy of him marrying out of love even when it's politically wrong because love trumps all!

Of course that's D&D OC overriding the world logic and Robb's characterization so they can do their cynical little storyline that just meant less sympathy was had during the Red Wedding. Bok wedding had a much greater impact because you feel for Robb doing these things because he wants to do the right thing but everything goes to piss anyways. That's why the Red Wedding is tragic. You really hope that the tides will change in his favor because his actions are honorable but it instead becomes darker and darker instead.

In the show, the Red Wedding was more shock factor than tragedy. You can tell in interviews D&D values the scene for its shock value of "omg I did not see that coming" and not the far more stronger impression of tragedy where you lose several characters you really hoped would end up in a better place. They are very average TV writers adapting a work beyond their comprehension.

I recently rewatched it, it goes downhill at the middle of the third season.

Talisa of Volantis. Season 2 was the last season I watched.

After the Red Wedding.

To me it was more subtle but still.
When there was the Fookin Legend thing, with the Watchers hunting rebels.
I didn't hate the fact that there were deserters and such, I hated the way they portrayed the whole thing, and it was completely original.
Fookin Legend was drinking from a skull and making an evil speech. It looked like a cartoon, with villain making evil gestures and laughing evilish.
And then the Watchers decided to make a surprise attack... By running through Craster's Keep shouting "For the Night's Watch!".
What idiocy is that, you are hunting deserters, it's not chivalry.
But still, it was passable, and the nail in the coffin was the failed Theon's rescue, which was absolutely pointless and comical.

This was when it really started going to shit. They should have kept the original story, it wasn't that hard to understand and it wouldn't have ruined Robb.

It was all downhill from here on out, but I really gave up when Barristan died.

Yep. Robb was the start of the love story soap opera bullshit and after they saw the reaction to the wedding they decided to turn it up to 11.

Even in the books, I had a feeling the Freys were going to fuck him over, but nothing like the Red Wedding. I was fortunate to read the series back in 1998 so there was little danger of spoilers.

In the end of A Clash of Kings, Arya found out the Freys in Harrenhal were pissed as fuck because they found out about Robb "betraying" them. So there was definitely foreboding there.

I honestly thought that the Freys were going to abandon Robb in battle like those 2 Scottish lords did in Braveheart. Slaughtering Robb's Northern and Riverlands troops caught me off-guard despite the clues from the House of the Undying.

Honestly, GRRM has nobody but himself to blame for allowing D&D to fuck over his work. At least he has all his millions to comfort him because pre-HBO adaptation, I don't think he was raking in mega-bucks like he does now.

>But still, it was passable, and the nail in the coffin was the failed Theon's rescue, which was absolutely pointless and comical.
"Oh no, not THE COUPLE OF DOGS! RUN!"

Man, fuck women. They are whore-ish, disloyal, unfriendly, don't contribute anything to society, and are terrible for your morals and principles.

>Be in High School
>Be on Cross Country team
>Before every meet, our team is congregated under the team's tent waiting for the races to start
>Coach's wife and 4 year old daughter always show up about 30 minutes before the race
>1 year old daughter always recognizes out uniforms, and runs up to us to give each individual person on the team a hug
>We look absolutely ridiculous when she does this, and are laughed at by everyone
>One day I get absolutely annoyed when she does it
>She gets to me, and I push her off of me, propelling her about 4 feet in the air
>Coach is absolutely infuriated at me for refusing to babysit his child, and starts to yell at me
>Some other adults have to hold that faggot back from me
>I start to yell back and tell him how his daughter made our team look like an absolute joke before every race
>Kicks me off the team right then and there

I didn't give a fuck then, and still don't give a fuck now. I stood my ground and stayed by my principles. It's not my faults he's raising a whore for a daughter.

Don't get me started on that shit. Remember how in the beginning of Yara's rescue mission at the Dreadfort how the Ironborn used their axes to take out guards? And then magically, they lost their axe-throwing skills against a shirtless and helmet-less edgelord with knives?

Don't forget that fucking scene was the first taste of D&D's magical traveling bullshit in which Yara was able to circumvent Westeros in record time.

I'm in the same camp. The Freys were going to betray him regardless. Walder Frey was always very slippery and greedy. They used Robb's annulment as the excuse they needed to break free of their failing alliance. They could've pulled back from the alliance without slaughtering Robb and Robb would probably let them be. Tywin's offer was too hard to resist though.

And then, in the very next scene the whole Iron Men crew are outside of the castle, and we hear distant barking.
Were these dogs crippled? Was it Ramsay chasing the Ironborns making dogs sounds?

Season 1 was fantastic. I truly thought we were in for something special. Season 2 was instantly shittier. Questionable changes to characters and storylines that made the overall experience worse. Would I say complete shit? Not just yet. I guess I was eased into it but by the end of season 2 - beginning of season 3 is when it became complete shit. It's hard to pinpoint. Maybe because I want to believe it was something special for longer than a season.

The pacing has ruined more than I expected it would. In the beginning it was kinda clear which characters are big players in what regions, and it took characters multiple seasons to change between them. Now the world is reduced to a small town where everyone can walk to another part within a day as they please, including giant armies.

Jaime was interesting all the way up to season 4, I think. Then he was neutered...

Yeah, Walder Frey could've easily just told Robb to go fuck off.

He's a slimy dude, but after reading The Mystery Knight, I can sorta get why he extracted those concessions from Catelyn. His sister's husband backed Daemon Blackfyre and lost 9/10 of his wealth and holdings so that's why the Freys hedged their bets and didn't get involved in Robert's Rebellion until after the Trident was won.

Even Robb knew that he owed the Freys a lot. Walder's eldest son and heir Stevron died while fighting for Robb (though it's implied that one of his relatives assassinated him). Plus the Frey troops were a boon to Robb's forces. Marrying Jeyne Westerling was misguided honor-turned-into stupidity of the highest order.

Season 2 had Jaime murder his cousin; something the book version never did. That cousin accidentally died while he and Jaime were being escorted.

If Ser Stevron was alive, they would never have betrayed Robb. The guy was a diplomat first and foremost and he was very loyal to Robb. Everything that could've gone wrong went wrong for Robb. Guy had the luck of a cursed man.

Is this the best scene in GoT?

youtube.com/watch?v=47MazYDnmaU

This.

>At what exact moment did GOT turn to complete shit?
Here.

This is very true. Stevron was half-Royce on his mom's side and was very honorable. I think one of his relatives killed him because of the fact that he would try and settle things between his father and Robb. Not to mention he was the heir to the Twins and if he died, it'd mess up the whole line of succession.

>TV Tywin knows that his servant is a Northern girl whose obviously brought up in a Noble House
Doesn't keep her hostage. Even if she wasn't Arya Stark, Tywin would be retarded to give up a Northern lord's daughter that he could blackmail into not fighting against the Lannisters anymore or else.

Red wedding is where is changed into event television.

I liked how the show started off with a large number of intertwined and interdependent character driven plot lines and the implication they'd all collide at some point far down the line.

But then every season just sheared off more and more plot lines until, by season six, there was nothing left. Then season seven was just taking all the characters who's plot lines had already ended and trying to do some big throw down with magic zombies, who, had characters not been morons, would have never been a threat.

>if the lamb sees the knife it'll panic and the panic will spoil the meat, they've never see my knife!

>make sure the princess knows her parents chose to burn her alive! Make it last and make sure she suffers!

No, Arya wasn't an edgelord yet.

If they had explored that plotline and had her grow somewhat attached to Tywin while conflicted about killing him or not, the show would have been better off.

I think it starts to go downhill severely around season 6 but fragments of it started going downhill earlier.

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To be fair that whole story is pretty dumb in the books aswell

>ok you get to pick three people to kill
>I'll not name the Mountain even though I'm most afraid of him and he tells these disgusting stories and hurts all these people
>I'll name a cook that kicks me and one of Mountain's guys oh dang it I forgot all about Tywin and the rest
I get that GRRM wanted to show that little girls are dumb but it becomes frustrating as a reader having the most OP assassin ever be one word away from ending the whole conflict.

Ned, tywin and joffrey carried this show

>If they had explored that plotline and had her grow somewhat attached to Tywin while conflicted about killing him or not, the show would have been better off.
I have to agree with this. It makes her conflict with that death list interesting because Arya has a connection with Tywin Lannister despite being a sworn enemy to her House.

At least the TV series had Gendry call Arya out for her idiocy.

youtube.com/watch?v=sZH3lWhUHTI

If Arya had listed Tywin, Joffrey, and Cersei, the series would've taken a dramatic turn.

This is literally a completely different show than what it is now

There are still flickers of goodness in the show, but generally season 4 is when things take a turn. Especially the finale and Tyrion's killing of Tywin. That's just when the flaws became too great to ignore

For me the red wedding. They killed all the characters I liked and lo and behold I no longer wanted to watch the show. Crazy.

when tyrion killed tywin

Everything about that arc was so obscenely retarded, I had a lot of qualms about a lot of things that happened before but that completely opened my eyes to how shit the show had become.

The immense contrast between the fight scene in S1 where Jorah wins because of his armor, versus the naked dual wielding ninja boy with dogs vs fully armored seasoned raiders was obscene.

Not to mention the whole sailing literally around the entire continent and back again as if that's just some trip that take.

>but generally season 4 is when things take a turn
I am pissed as fuck that they ruined Davos reading the Night's Watch letter to Stannis. It's probably one of the most powerful moments in A Storm of Swords because Davos is risking his life to make his king listen to reason and duty.

How the fuck do you go from this:

>“There’s much I don’t understand,” Davos admitted. “I have never pretended elsewise. I know the seas and rivers, the shapes of the coasts, where the rocks and shoals lie. I know hidden coves where a boat can land unseen. And I know that a king protects his people, or he is no king at all.”
>Stannis’s face darkened. “Do you mock me to my face? Must I learn a king’s duty from an onion smuggler?”
>Davos knelt. “If I have offended, take my head. I’ll die as I lived, your loyal man. But hear me first. Hear me for the sake of the onions I brought you, and the fingers you took.”
>Stannis slid Lightbringer from its scabbard. Its glow filled the chamber. “Say what you will, but say it quickly.” The muscles in the king’s neck stood out like cords.
>Davos fumbled inside his cloak and drew out the crinkled sheet of parchment. It seemed a thin and flimsy thing, yet it was all the shield he had. “A King’s Hand should be able to read and write. Maester Pylos has been teaching me.” He smoothed the letter flat upon his knee and began to read by the light of the magic sword.

To THAT:
youtube.com/watch?v=6o8BUlj6LEU

the scene where he first meets Talisa on the battlefield and helps her saw a guys leg off is so fucking stupid

The idea that some Volantese noblewoman would show up in a war zone in a foreign land and be a surgeon is quite possibly the most far-reaching lunacy I've ever seen. Why the fuck would she be allowed to be in the Riverlands?

Because fuck you she's a stong independent woman and cleans the shit after men's wars.

Yeah, but she's a foreigner who has no business being in Westeros. And what if the Lannister forces catch her in battle? There's no International Red Cross or respect for non-combatants in this kind of brutal medieval warfare.

whole scene is a huge red flag
>all these highborn lords are walking around on foot
>"hi my name is Roose and I think we should execute and flay everyone because I'm evil"
>the king in the north squats down to help some random nurse cut a guy's leg off as she lectures him about how bad war is

I liked that theory that Talisa was a Lannister spy, but the writers aren't clever enough to do that.

...

In the Season Finale when Jaime was talking with the guards dude about the plan to join in the fight against the Night King, he said it would take the army 3 days to march to White Harbor.

That seems...Not long at all. It was the 1st time I've heard them mention a time frame on that show when it was talking about travel.
But I guess it fits into D&D's time jumping.

Stannis is hard but just in the books. Brutally honest, brutally harsh but also brutally fair.

Show Stannis isn't that. It's just some guy on an island talking and talking.

Dragons hatching was the shark jumping moment

Remember how he just sat on his ass throughout most of Season 4 until Davos convinced him to go to the Iron Bank and get their backing? Then the Iron Bank goes around and agrees to fund Cersei? Or the Lannister army somehow besieging Highgharden off-screen successfully?

this whole season
too late to stop now, but the next season is gonna be a fucking mess

What happened to Lightbringer?

I like how they tried to mirror that with the Whispering Woods even though it's NOTHING alike. It's not like Jaime baited the Tyrells away from Highgarden. Or split his forces up in two. Or did any of the things that made the Whispering Woods ambush work. Where did the Tyrell army go? Oh I guess the sigil of a rose means you're weak and gay.

That's doesn't make sense though, it's pretty close to winterfell and that took a month for the king. Just getting the army ready would take days and an army doesn't really sprint, we're talking maybe 20 miles a day?

Unless Westeros is significantly smaller in size than Iceland hah

Babies in jars.

if he meant the armies in kings landing marching to white harbor, that means that distance cant be any longer than like 30-40 miles at most.
I did some googling, and it said that mounted troops could go as far as 30 miles a day if they had two horses, but non-mounted troops would only travel 8-10 miles per day. There was a recorded case of a standing army traveling 28 miles in a day, but that distance is rare.

even if that was the case, they'd still be shy of 100 miles. I thought westeros was massive, not the same size as Massachusetts

No it is about been edgelord. It is about of everything wrong with this scene.

1. Absolutely unnecessary and uncalled change of the books plot.
2. Forced Tywin is absolutely out of his character. He is not person who would give a single fuck about simple cupbearer, and if he suspects that cupbearer is not simple, as already said he would take her as hostage.
3. Arya jumps straight into cushy job instead of eating another bowl of shit that is crucial to development of her character, tempering her from noble gril into edgy deathlord.
4. Roose Bolton in the books taking Harrenhal is very notable event too. At first it is like "finally saved by cavalry" for Arya, "i reached my father's bannerman, i am home..." but then revelation that her father's bannerman may be even more dangerous than Lannisters themselves. Great insight in the House Starks politics.
All these nuances of original material are replaced with stale stereotype of so smart servant and master jest. Fucking drooped.

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the Kings retinue moves slower than an army on the march

I think Robert made it a point of saying it was slow because they brought the whole court, children, women, etc.

After this episode.
Nothing was as violent and the rest seems like they are babying us.

That's what I'm saying. When I heard him say that during that episode, I didn't know where White Harbor was. I just assumed it was a half way meeting point or something. But looking at that map, that looks a hell of a lot farther than a 3 day march lol. Or the continent is dwarf size in reality. But really, it's just D&D are morons

Yeah but Tywin was secretly a nice guy who cares about people except all the times he was the complete opposite

Anecdotally, I remember watching Season 1 and thinking that as smoking hot as Dany was, constantly getting her tits out, all I wanted was more of the political intrigue. I wanted the thrills of a dude throwing a child out of a window to protect the fact he was porking his sister, the Queen, behind the king's back.

Nowadays, they have entirely disregarded the political side. House allegiances mean nothing. You can't bring up legitimate complaints, like travel time or raven flight speed, because whether the show has just reached meme status or has a huge influx of normies, you get met with a 'lol just turn your brain off they have dragons lol'.

Sean Bean is an incredible actor. He carried The Fellowship too

His extended edition scene in Two Towers was great as well
>Remember today, little brother.

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Is Stannis even dead? Why was his death off screen when he got "killed" by Brienne? They showed his daughter and wife die clearly on screen.

Wheres Lightbringer?!?! No one saw his body & gave him a proper burial or burning?

The episode after Viserion died. I was right after rewatching The Sopranos, so I thought that they would go a in depth about it. Maybe Drogo has his corpse on display, as a trophy, and Dany is conflicted about it, etc. You know, get us into characters heads.
It was never menitioned agin. Just a cheap death for shock value and ebin cliffhanger.

Le ebin reabbarance foreshadowing :-D

pasta

Season one, episode 1, right after the opening credits were over.

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Red Wedding

If this is even remotely true, you are the biggest faggot I think I'll see for some time.

The moment the show completely went to shit (other moments that strayed from the book were bad, but not show breaking) was when Tyrion and Jaime said their goodbyes.

This was the moment where the writers decided "fuck it" because they cut the Tysha story. They already planted the seed of the story in season one, but then just dropped the plot line, they made Jaime and Tyrion have a happy goodbye.

This was the first warning that the story was going to shit.

I liked the idea of betraying and killing Ned, but it didnt really handle it all that well

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Pretty much, pretty much
Also having to explain to my friends the implications of the scene where Littlefinger kills Lysa because they forgot who Jon Arryn was. But that's not really the shows fault exactly.

I should read the books

The books are amazing. It's like if Tolkien collaborated with Faulkner. It's complex fiction on a level that the show was never able to attain.

For me it was when there was that dorne bullshit.

Looked like lost tier quality.

It's a good time. It's everything you loved about the show but much more complete in its execution and understanding of the world and the characters.

When bran met the tree god thing. Dragons are fine, ice zombies are fine, even fire daughter fuck babies are fine but stupid omniscient things that were only there to make bran walk again and turn him into a pervert was a little too much

With most writers a character being killed off screen usually means they aren't really dead. With the hacks that are D&D there really is no telling and they may just be that incompetent

20 good men.

I don't care that Littlefinger died, but the show's death for him was so undramatic and lame it was appalling. It would be like if after Luke blows up the death star and he gets a comm saying that vader was actually on the death star and the war in won.