If you don't have a definitive answer on when the unborn becomes valuable then we must default to the earliest possible moment that the unborn could have value, which would be the moment of conception. This would be the only to, in a sense, avoid killing innocent human lives.
>2016
>Still being pro-choice edgelords
Other urls found in this thread:
Any point other than conception is arbitrary.
Abortion is murder.
In before someone thinks sperm are zygotes.
The point where having a child would cause the mother massive debt to raise it is saving the mothers life. Unless just dropping any baby that would normally be aborted into an orphanage is really a solution
>The point where having a child would cause the mother massive debt to raise it is saving the mothers life.
nah, being poor doesn't necessarily kill you.
There are plenty of mothers of born children that are in massive debt, that wouldn't justify their murder. If we can't kill born children for this reason then we should not kill the unborn.
What does the Surgeon General even do?
abortion=arbitrary
pro-choice=just
yknow you liberals talk a lot about equality, but when it comes to someone disagreeing with you, you freak out, lol.
I agree that life begins at conception. I don't believe that innocent life has value. I am not responsible for every starving african.
If a woman wants to kill her child then let her. I won't associate with her though.
Why do you believe that innocent human life has no value?
he's not really freaking out
also I can't understand your argument, its pretty nonsensical t b h
Because the world shows us it doesn't over and over again.
I place value in things. I don't place value on 7 billion people I do t know or care about.
I used to be against abortion. Then I learned that the overwhelming amount of abortions are performed on black women.
Now I'm all for it. It can only make the world a better place.
Value doesn't mean that you have to personally care about them. You could substitute "value" with "the right to life" and it would mean the same thing, it's not something you place on something, but what is inherent about us as humans. If you could convince me that humans shouldn't have an inherent right to life than I would become pro-choice.
The point is that one of the only legitimate roles of government in a free society is to stop people from killing stealing and assaulting others and to punish those that do accordingly.
Government has no obligation to provide anything to innocent life but should punish those who take it
So a retard had a kid it can't support. The kid had a right to life. Who looks after it?
How many refugee orphans have you taken in?
So you can leave a baby in a field to look after itself? Not realistic is it?
Perhaps you want to stop people having sex? Not realistic is it?
You want a firm definition of the start it life but have a variable definition of the right to life.
It seems like abortion only reinforces or promotes further destructive behavior. I know there were times before abortion was legalized that the black family was strong, and crime in their neighborhoods were relatively low, but now black people are plagued with single-motherhood and I think abortion is a strong contributing factor. We should be promoting strong moral ethics in the black community and the value of human life would be a good start.
These sorts of questions only distract from the main debate, which is when human life begins, and whether killing innocent humans is immoral.
Or maybe welfare leads to abortions and the destruction of the family unit.
That's certainly a factor.
That is two separate debates.
Life beginning at conception has no influence on weather abortion is immoral.
In fact killing innocents is not immoral. For instance euthanasia by morphine. Or the trolley problem.
Abortion should be available for rape cases in which situation the rapist is also charged with the manslaughter of the child.
>confusing morals with ethics
You're a dumbass Ahmed.
Neither are up for debate.
Life begins at conception.
Murder is immoral.
Someone find this user and send him dozens of unwanted crack babies.
Then maybe he'll see that innocent life has cost, not "value".
>Life beginning at conception has no influence on weather abortion is immoral.
If life didn't begin at conception, why would abortion be wrong?
The Trolley problem is a classic, and there is a perfectly moral choice to it. Which is to do nothing since the act of moving the lever is a deliberate act of killing. The problem is just framed in a way to make this option unappealing.
Science defines life as an orgasm in the state of development, The unborn from the moment of conception is a human organism that is growing. That makes it a human life.
Abortion should be free, provided for by tax dollars.
I would pay for it. If a woman wants an abortion, give it to her. The alternative is she has it and fucks it up and we all have to deal with it.
You're literally less valuable than any crack baby. I guarantee this.
Do you really want another 16 million niggers, plus their nigger kids and grandkids, in our country today?
I hate liberals but they literally saved us with RvW.
>If we can't kill born children for this reason then we should not kill the unborn.
Yeah, we should just call social services, give the child special accommodations in school, and eventually give the child a bed in a for-profit, private prison.
ITT: men who want to tell women want they should be able to do with their bodies.
Just stop. It's not your body, you can't force a woman to have that child.
So not feeding your baby is fine?
>caring about the difference.
Its all as bad as astrology.
You need to prove its wrong. Why does life have value? 300 innocents died in earthquakes in Italy last week, So what.
But you wouldn't take care of crack babies, nor would you try to help their mothers as they shit out one a year for two decades.
No, you're going to sit in your fucking ivory tower and fill the whole world with unloved, unwanted trash.
Family planning works. Shadow a social worker in Detroit for 2 hours and you'll understand.
Abortion's just a clash of differing morals, stop getting so booty blasted. People have different definitions of murder and perceptions of what defines a human being.
When the parents decide it is, up until the infant is released from the hospital. Can't get any more definitive than that.
I think you're making a mistake in assuming that every aborted baby would have been conceived if abortion were illegal. The availability of abortion as a sort of "safegaurd" encourages men and women to engage in destructive behavior since there's no real consequences for their actions beyond having to get an abortion. For this reason I believe that if abortion were illegal we would see less risky behavior.
>If you don't have a definitive answer on when the unborn becomes valuable
But I do, the unborn is never valuable, in fact the born is not valuable. Only persons who appear able to enter the work force have potential value and only those who are productive members of society have actual value.
>orgasm in the state of developing
Women just can't help themselves. They're so hungry for sex they just don't have time to use protection of any kind.
Nobody forced me to reply to you, but you should still kill yourself.
>So not feeding your baby is fine?
I'm not sure where you get that from but no, parents are obligated to provide food and shelter, either personally, or by ensuring the child is given to somebody who can.
I've been copying and pasting that line from my notes for at least a few weeks and I've never noticed it.
One word: niggers
Niggers are the majority of abortions
99% of the time a white has an abortion it is because the offspring would be born defective
So if you enjoy living with more niggers and having them outpace whites in birth then by all means ban abortion
I don't consider nigs to be innocent nor human life and I could give a damn about other non whites
BTFO
>I've never known of one instance where the child had to be aborted to save the Mother's life
Savita Halapanavar
OP BTFO
Abortion is perfectly fine in cases such as when birth could kill the mother, the child is the product of rape/incest, or is discovered to have abnormalities in the womb.
OTHERWISE, it should be forbidden.
I am not pro-choice. I am pro getting rid of genetic dead end failures like downies and rape bastards
>hood niggers will behave chaste and modestly if abortion is illegal
I have a great idea, let's outlaw drugs, murder, and theft so the niggers will behave!
The point would be before they're born. That's why we call them unborn. If you don't want or can't take care of a baby then go ahead and get rid off it. Really it's a big step up from when we used to throw unwanted babies off cliffs.
The benefit of the many is better than the benefit of the few.
Abortion is beneficial for society by taking away unwanted and unsupported children.
Birth
/thread
Sins of commission and sins of omission. Would it be fine to not pull the lever if only saving lives would happen? Would it be fine to simple not press the breaks when your about to crash into a orphans crossing the street? By not pulling the lever you are in fact killing five people.
Hell no I ain't helping no goddamn ho can't keep her legs shut.
I'd help a crack baby out tho.
Family planning works at destroying Western society, sure.
meant for
What about those children who are mentally defective and could never survive without constant care
I support allowing mutants to be peacefully put down after birth so why not before birth before they would really "know"
>The benefit of the many is better than the benefit of the few.
I could use this to justify a lot of evil.
What about those children who are mentally defective and could never survive without constant care
I support allowing mutants to be peacefully put down after birth so why not before birth before they would really "know
They were going to die anyway. The best thing you can do is just walk away and let fate run it's course. If you pull the lever you have killed someone.
What about all your brothers and sisters that your dad left of your mom's thighs, and in her ovaries? An egg and a sperm, they're got potential, they have value. The mix of genes might not be precisely determined until fertilisation, but you've got all the material. It's clear then, that we have to use every egg and sperm. You're not a murderer are you?
Also, look at that cunt's beard. Only weirdos have beards like that. I wouldn't trust a single thing he said.
>t. Cuckservative
The nigs should just be rounded up and dropped over in Africa or put back into slavery. They will always be a burden in white nations
1. Killing innocent human beings is immoral
2. From the moment of conception, the unborn is a human being
C. Therefore, abortion is immoral.
This is the entire abortion argument right here. If you can't show the first or second premise to be faulty then you're morally obligated to be pro-life. These arguments about rape and choice, or the logistics of caring for people are completely irrelevant.
Speaking as a conservative, the GOP's war on abortion (and gays to a lesser degree) is absolutely the worst move for the party in recent history.
If sluts can't afford their mixed-race baby from Jamal and they want to get rid of it, that should be allowed.
If the homosexuals want to violate each other in their bedrooms that's fine. It's not like they'll be raising children anyway.
>Family planning works at destroying Western society, sure.
Another hyperbolic "white genocide" retard. The only reason why there isn't massive "family planning" efforts in the form of voluntary sterilization, IUDs, birth control and abortion in the 3rd world is shithead Jesus freaks like you.
youtube.com
Let us do God's work. Let us abort them ALL.
>In before someone thinks sperm are zygotes.
That didn't take very long
Agreed. Also rapists (like legitimate rape not the feminist "OMG EVERYTHING IS RAAAAPE") should have their genitals crushed and surgically removed without anesthesia. the penalty for raping a child under 16 should be that plus execution
You've phrased it exactly how I do; any point past conception is arbitrary.
Past that though I'm still undecided if abortion is *wrong* or not.
The way I see it, on one hand aborting can avoid a life of suffering if mother/parents are unfit mentally or financially. In addition to having broken members of society (nuggers, criminals, etc). Furthermore do we really need more humans crowding up the place using resources/benefits?
On the other hand we may be killing (depending on your view) a human who has no choice in the matter.
I'm summary, part of me realizes abortion kills a human, but I'm still not completely against it. I still like to use it as metric for singling out shitty sluts though.
>murder is immoral
Sometimes pests have to be exterminated though. Take Muslims as an example. If they started killing Muslims en masse in camps I would be the first one to sign up to open the gas valve
Remember if you kill one it's a tragedy, if you kill many it's a statistic
Abortion IS murder, but I don't give a fuck as long as it keeps undesirables under control.
Actually, I'm not white.
Try again, dipshit.
When making your decision you should keep in mind that leftists like to pretend that the world is becoming overpopulated, but this simply isn't true. The for instance, requires 2.1 children per woman just to meet the replacement rate. Right now we are at 1.9. The entire population of earth could live comfortably in Texas so we're not in any danger.
Yeah but no, like I said, why does this potential for life begin with the zygote, why not any two compatible gametes?
>The entire population of earth could live comfortably in Texas
Fuck off we're full.
Science defines life as an organism in the state of development, The unborn from the moment of conception is a human organism that is growing. That makes it a human life. Sperm and eggs, separated and by themselves are not in a state of development.
Then seriously fuck off. If I had it my way, your mother would have gotten an abortion and a free meal at Dave & Busters to celebrate her freedom and choices.
>The point would be before they're born. That's why we call them unborn.
No dumbass, they're called unborn because they haven't been born yet. That doesn't mean the unborn is not valuable.
But you didn't have it your way, did you?
Abortion is going away, bro. Get used to it. Christianity is coming back.
I'm sure plenty of said retards could make great parents. You don't have to be smart to be a good parent. In fact, many smart people are poor parents because they put their career before their kids.
In many cases I feel it's just a mixture of sheer laziness and liberal brainwashing that makes you think otherwise.
>Abortion is going away, bro
according to what fucking rubric?
>the trolley problem
MULTI TRACK DRIFTING
But honestly I would work like this:
I have one person I love a lot. The only thing I have ever loved really and would probably break down if they were dead
>if the one I love was among the 5 I would move the lever
>if the one I love is the single one I would let the 5 die
>if the one I love isn't present I would leave things alone and let things run their course. By not acting I have killed nobody they were going to die anyways and I should not interfere in the fate of those I do not know
Abortion is murder. That's a fact that leftists are too stupid to understand.
But abortion is also helping keep the black population stagnant, so I'm okay with it.
It's not only about space it's resources. Do we currently have enough agricultural development, infrastructure, etc to sustain current and rising populations?
>2. From the moment of conception, the unborn is a human being
This is false.
It is a LIKELY human, but it is not human yet.
It a single cell at the moment of conception.
Saying this is a human is like saying a seed is a tree the moment it is watered, or milk is cottage cheese the moment it leaves the udder of a cow.
The point where the fetus becomes human is when it can sustain its own functions outside of the mother's body. This includes machine assistance.
Right now, the absolute rock bottom minimum our technology allows is 22 weeks. Before that, there's less than a 1% chance of survival, so it is NOT alive.
If you want to eliminate abortion, improve premature birth technology or create artificial wombs.
>racists want to propogate the dindu culture and further force them into lives of crime and violence
Yeah real smart stormfag.
Only because in the trolley problem it's either killing one innocent or killing many.
...
With how efficient farming is these days I don't see why we wouldn't.
According to the rubric of less people are having abortions, the pro-life movement grows every day, medical-science is taking viability back every day, sonogram technology is allowing people to see the baby (visual connection very strong in mother), and good Christians hate abortion.
By that rubric, shit for brains. :)
>Being anti-abortion
>When abortion is effectively destroying the black population
Why bother? Let people murder their offspring. It benefits everyone else.
>...in fact, in my 36 years in pediatric surgery, I only dealt with one pregnant patient, and it turned out she was only referred to me because she lied about her age because her doctor's office gives out free lollipops to children after check-ups.
thats a nice beard.
>Imblying babies ever have value.
Burn them all.
The jews have convinced millions of white women to murder their own babies, and millions of white men to just stand by and let it happen.
That is the origin of white cuckdom, not caring at all about the life of your own flesh and blood.
There is literally no argument against abortion.
Not even in >muh bible
It's feelings instead of logic in politics.
Neither side has a moral high ground to stand on when both sides abuse and misuse the act of procreation for selfish pleasure.
The highest moral solution is to stop putting your dick into a vagina unless you're willing to accept the chance it will produce offspring. You can get a reversible vasectomy, or the female a reversible tube tying. Pills and condoms aren't 100% foolproof. If you get someone pregnant, it's on both of you for doing the act in the first place. You are then responsible for the life that comes next, and any removal or prevention of that is morally reprehensible and can be murder.
I think we would agree that the seed is of the same species as the tree, so what we call it really doesn't matter. "Tree" is simply the name for the stage of development.
Why is it important for the fetus to be able to sustain itself outside of the mother?
>According to the rubric of less people are having abortions
That's because birth control works. That sonogram tech also tells you if your baby is going to be deformed and if it needs to be aborted.
Have you seen a kid with Downs lately? There's a reason for that. Prenatal tests are cheaper and more accurate now. Women are getting BETTER abortions today and otherwise using family planning before an abortion needs to happen.
Fuck your bullshit "christian values". You all fucking lie anyway.
But I do not see putting severely mutated humans peacefully out of their miserable existence as being immoral. In fact in one case where a father killed his daughter who was unable to even speak and was In constant miserable pain and would be for the rest of the time it was alive and was slowly dying I see the fathers action to be moral by ending undue pain and suffering. The same way if someone comes across a severely wounded animal they will often decide to mercy kill it
I think the most merciful thing to do is abort such offspring before they are even born before they ever have to be in pain
no it isn't, it looks like he should be shilling fried chicken.
Remember if you are OK with fags you need to have a look at yourself too
babies are worth:
mothers effort lets say 2h per day wasted because of the baby
extra food to feed the baby
hours wasted by mother being a general annoyance to her surroundings, lets say 100h in total, depending on how annoying the female was originally
As a taxpayer the choice is more or less either abortion, or have having more welfare. I think the choice is pretty obvious.
you just have no style, besides everything is better than a generic hipster beard
I support abortion for niggers and Mexishits.