I loved this show, but holy fuck, ending was disappointing

I loved this show, but holy fuck, ending was disappointing.

I felt a bit anti climatic, but I'm glad it ended the way it did

If they tried to explain everything, it'd suffer the same convoluted fate of lost, and watching Nora go around the globe to get back home would've been pretty boring television

What I meant is that explaining what happened (to people who vanished) was kinda shitty way to conclude the story.

Margaret Qualley can't act.

She was excellent in her role IMO.

s03e07 was the "big" ending and the finale of kevin's arch and s03e08 was the finale of nora's arch and the departure itself

She lied brah

If you found the ending disappointing you never loved the show because you're a fucking braindead pleb

Even from a straight perspective, Theroux is so hot.

I would've given this show 10/10 if it ended with season 3 episode 7.

You're allowed to dislike things that have high production values and "deep" seeming themes.

Especially when its something that's going for ambiguity but ends up just being vague for the sake of it.

Except Nora lied so...

Season 3 was the only season of this show I liked. Maybe after the shitshow of S2 I went in with really really low expectations.

My biggest grip with the finale was the episode tone, after 7 batshit crazy, balls-to-the-walls episodes, the finale being so slow and sappy felt anticlimatic.

Exactly, this is why i watched all 3 seasons.

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>show by damon lindeloff
>good ending
pick one and only one

The intent there was to be ambiguous, to leave you with enough information to come to either conclusion and for that conclusion to say more about you than the show.

The problem is they didn't give enough information to support her story and the entire show up to that point supports the conclusion she lied.

the show was, for it's entire run, trying to be ambiguous, trying to provide enough (often conflicting) information so every event would have multiple valid interpretations. The problem is the show was very poorly written. For just about everything, there's only one valid interpretation, because the alternative interpretations simply lacked sufficient support.

The finale was the best finale in history. Better than Sopranos and Six Feet Under (slightly)

Except that didn't happen

It is entirely up to the viewer as to whether they believe Nora or not

I would say she's lying

No it wasn't...

> First line said to Nora: "I don't believe you"
> Nora: "What are you going to tell them?", Matt: "Whatever you want me to."
> Just as the water fills up, it looks like she is about to say a word. Most likely "stop"
> Nora to Kevin at her house: "That's not what happened"
> Nora to Kevin at dance: "It's not the truth"

Also lets break down how improbable her story is:

> Finds single couple in the middle of the Australian outback with only 2% of the population present
> Finds her husband and kids living in the exact same house? How is the town possibly still running?
> How could she possibly find the scientist? It's not like he could go around saying he was from the 98% world since it would cause massive uproar for people wanting to go through
> How could the scientist possibly acquire the resources to make an entire machine? Radiated metals?

Nora didn't go through, felt guilty and went into exile both because of her shame and her final conversation with Kevin.

Nora developed the story of the 2% world because it allows her to be at peace with losing her family, imagining a world where they are happy and together.

This is why the episode is called "The Book of Nora". Like religion, she conjured a story to allow herself to be at peace with what happened even though she can't explain it.

Kevin believes her not because he actually believes the story, but because he doesn't care anymore and just wants to be with her.

It is not 100% confirmed, but the dialogue hints in the episode are absolutely nudging in the direction that she lied.

... How about reading the second line of the post before typing out an even longer reply?

This is the same crap people say with The Sopranos finale. The ending isn't ambiguous if you paid enough attention to pick up what Chase was putting down.

Tony got iced.

Best Lindeloff finale maybe, but this can't even top Six Feet Under

Ok my mom wanted me to watch this show but i only made it about halfway through the first episode where they were at the party and it already felt like just another degenerate hbo piece of shit. does it get better?

HBO has to rush everything
not so popular shows like this
popular shows like GoT making seasons 7 and 6 ep from 10 which leads to teleporting
HBO is fucking jewish cancerous retards

it sure does, youre in for a sweet, if a bit emotionally demanding at times I should say, ride.

My point is that the show was not trying to be ambiguous. It is clearly implied she lied, which was the creator's intent, but they just didn't want to come right out and say it even though they smack you over the head with it multiple times in the episode.

The "ambiguous" people are just morons, just like the ones who think Tony didn't get whacked.

My point is that the show was not trying to be ambiguous. It is clearly implied she lied, which was the creator's intent, but they just didn't want to come right out and say it even though they smack you over the head with it multiple times in the episode.

The "ambiguous" people are just morons, just like the ones who think Tony didn't get whacked.

Only morons will try to say the ending of the sopranos was ambiguous. Pretentious is the better word for that ending. As he was clearly trying to foreshadow tony getting shot in the back of the head by someone coming out of the bathroom, considering the flashbacks chosen, the obvious bathroom callback to godfather, etc.

...

You didn't get it then, sorry to be that person, but it's true.

>My point is that the show was not trying to be ambiguous. It is clearly implied she lied, which was the creator's intent, but they just didn't want to come right out and say it even though they smack you over the head with it multiple times in the episode.
>The "ambiguous" people are just morons, just like the ones who think Tony didn't get whacked.

PILE OF GUNS

>Only morons will try to say the ending of the sopranos was ambiguous
Confirmed too stupid to understand the sopranos. I bet you hated every second of it and are pretending to like it to fit on teevee. Sad! go back to Game of thrones, let the adults discuss higher television

>Kyevan

...

It's not a problem though

So how was Kevin able to come back from the dead at will?

... Not going to try to fix that? Okay whatever.

The problem with trying to assert that leftovers wasn't trying (and failing) to be ambiguous the entire show... is the entire show. As literally everything in the show was going for ambiguity, but failing due to lack of writing ability. They tried to imply the hallucinations were all in kevin's head, but then they had him come back from the fucking dead three times. They tried to imply holy wayne actually had abilities, but knowing anything about the stages of grief makes it clear what hes doing. They wanted you to be unsure if God was actually God, but even matt realizes, after talking to the guy, hes just a nut, and realizes hes was being an idiot for thinking otherwise for even an instant.

I am specifically stating the show was aspiring to be ambiguous and failed. Because it was trying to be ambiguous and it did fail, as evidenced by the fact you, yourself, are saying there is only one valid interpretation for the ending.

The sopranos ending is a faulty comparison as the sopranos ending wasn't trying to be ambiguous, it was trying to be artistic, trying to have more impact than simply showing tony shot in the head and people screaming.

>failure isn't a problem though

... yea okay

stop wasting your time. it's trash. numale retards love it though as you can see.

>kevin getting patted down between legs by security
>security pauses and looks up
>"congratulations"

what did they mean by this?

well, the drowning bits are probably just being lucky, and they mentioned some kind of a heart anomaly that mightve been allowing it.
As for the being shot in a stomach, lying down for few hours and then hobbling home and surviving the night.... probably sheer will serving the narrative of him truly wanting to "get home".
Just my 2 cents..

Okay. How about drinking cyanide, being dead and buried for eight hours, then just getting back up?

In the last episode, while kevin was pretending not to know nora, I was thinking they were in a parallel world, thst nora had gone through to another earth or something, and that's where they were. I was disappointed when it revealed they were still in the same place, but the idea that another world suddenly lost 98% was one of my guesses from the beginning - "no YOU are the ones that vanished". But now everyone is saying she was lying, so wtf did happen?

bad writing happened.

she just made it all up because she was ashamed of not being able to go through with anything in her life.

Yeah, I don't know what happened. I thought I responded to you but then I responded to myself? I must be hungover stoned.

When I said "the show" I only meant Nora's story, not the entire show itself. Regardless of how you interpret the rest of the show's mysteries and unexplained phenomena, I was specifically stating that Nora's story was clearly meant to be implied as a lie.

I would agree with you on Holy Wayne. As for "God", I am still torn, mainly because we see him in Kevin's "other world". Perhaps he is not the literal God, but thinks he is due to the fact that he is having the same unexplained experiences as Kevin. I think the origin on the "other world" is purposefully left unexplained. It's not ambiguous, it is clearly something else that just insanity.

Kevin's "other world" must be some sort of supernatural phenom (this is also supported by his pacemaker in the final episode. I think the heart attack was a lie. It was simply a lie to explain the scar on his chest which he got in the other world. "Wanna see my scar?")

But I would argue Kevin's supernatural experiences were about him realizing he needs to be present in his own reality. This is why at the end of S3E7, even with all the crazy shit going down around him, his final reflection is that of him and Nora.

She lied...

>> First line said to Nora: "I don't believe you"
>> Nora: "What are you going to tell them?", Matt: "Whatever you want me to."
>> Just as the water fills up, it looks like she is about to say a word. Most likely "stop"
>> Nora to Kevin at her house: "That's not what happened"
>> Nora to Kevin at dance: "It's not the truth"
>Also lets break down how improbable her story is:
>> Finds single couple in the middle of the Australian outback with only 2% of the population present
>> Finds her husband and kids living in the exact same house? How is the town possibly still running?
>> How could she possibly find the scientist? It's not like he could go around saying he was from the 98% world since it would cause massive uproar for people wanting to go through
>> How could the scientist possibly acquire the resources to make an entire machine? Radiated metals?
>Nora didn't go through, felt guilty and went into exile both because of her shame and her final conversation with Kevin.
>Nora developed the story of the 2% world because it allows her to be at peace with losing her family, imagining a world where they are happy and together.
>This is why the episode is called "The Book of Nora". Like religion, she conjured a story to allow herself to be at peace with what happened even though she can't explain it.
>Kevin believes her not because he actually believes the story, but because he doesn't care anymore and just wants to be with her.
>It is not 100% confirmed, but the dialogue hints in the episode are absolutely nudging in the direction that she lied.

Are there any explanations for how Kevin was able to "imagine" Christopher Sunday perfectly if Kevin didn't actually have Jesus powers?

hmpf, i immediatelly accredited this episode to the "tribal medicine mumbojumbo" that is a trope by now I bet, where you have a substance that just fakes your body and everybody else into thinking youre dead.
Its often used in whodunnit stories as a twist device.

seen one old abbo, seen em all

The substances exist but only work without causing permanent damage if the body is kept in a pretty specific arrangement. Just lifting the torso would've made it impossible for kevin to breathe, then piling dirt on his face would've been enough to suffocate him.

Goblin footed bitch

this show was pure perfection, honestly the fact that it never captured a large audience is probably for the best, 3 short seasons and it left me wanting just a little more. Definitely beats most shows that just get dragged out till they're completely shit

Yeah, I know it exists and the burying part makes it less believable altogether,
nevertheless thats where the "mumbo-jumbo" and suspension of your desbelief come into play.
In other words - go with it, using the aforementioned trope as a foundation.

The amount of effort that went into the device storyline and the fact they cut off her scene in the bubble just before she was going to yell stop is a clear indication they were trying for ambiguity. Otherwise there's no good reason to not just have her say "stop." Get out, and be all bummed. Then lie later, out of shame. The intent was to have you honestly consider the possibility she wasn't lying. Its just too obvious she was lying if you had been paying attention at all.

she played the edgy teenager part well

Sorry, but shows that start off trying to be grounded and realistic don't get much suspension of disbelief.

As the show started off trying to be a character study in the wake of a completely unexplainable event. Then it just starts going full lost, acting like one magic happening can justify building entire plots around more magic happenings.

I mean, is there any doubt he had some sort of jesus powers regarding that stuff?

If you think about the man with the noose on the bridge when Kevin first "dies" and reappears later on the boat with Matt, there's obviously something supernatural or otherworldly going on

They were trying to imply he saw the dude on TV and just injected him into a fever dream.

Which would've been fine.

But then he used his alternate-reality powers to come back from being fucking dead three times.

S1 goes along the eponymous Tom Perrota book
Rest of the show was continued on with Perrota as a closely involved consultant, afaik.

The intent was to have you honestly consider the possibility she wasn't lying. Its just too obvious she was lying if you had been paying attention at all.

I disagree with this assertion. As I wrote above, they didn't explicitly say she lied because that would have been too on the nose. This is why I compared it to the The Sopranos. In both, the ending was meant to be taken a certain way (Tony dies, Nora lies) but in both cases they simply give you big hints as opposed to actually telling you outright.

Your argument that they could have just showed her saying stop is a similar argument to why didn't they just show Tony getting shot if their intent was to imply he died.

We disagree on the creator's intent. I think the show was clearly implying she lied.

The fact that since she lied we never find out if the machine was legit or not is why they put so much emphasis. It was about Nora's crisis of faith not necessarily the audience's.

But what about the odds of that same person being on the boat, I can understand the ambiguity of Nora at the end, but the stuff about Kevin and his jesus resurrection powers seems somewhat clear cut to me

Lost was heavily flawed but an amazing rollercoaster ride, I thought it was a once in a lifetime thing. Then Leftovers came... and it's a similiar rollercoaster ride, with considerably less flaws. It was truly fantastic from start to finish. Lindelof really wanted to make the Lost finale work, because he's essentially re-did it for the Leftovers, but this time around, avoided trying pointlessly explain things that just couldn't be explained.
For example, why did the departure happened? No one knows. Think of it as a natural disaster, I guess. If they outright said "oh yeah, God caused it", would it really have been better? Or if they say, oh yeah, Russia was experimenting with a weapon and it malfunctioned. Nah, that'd been ridiculous.
Lost tried to explain why the island is special by introducing "the light" and shit like that. Not only was it ultimately silly, but it didn't serve any purpose. It was basically only there so they could say, "here this physical thing that caused everything". It should never have been more than a metaphor.
So yeah going back to the Leftovers, I'm glad it had a razor sharp focus from start to finish.

Am i the only one who loved the finale?

It was beautiful.

The best finale in TV history as of now IMHO. Can't see it being topped in quite a long while.

Also, the creators have continually said that they were never going to tell you what caused The Departure. This is another reason as to why it is likely Nora is lying.

>what're the odds of an Australian being on an Australian boat?

...

You know what ambiguity means, right? It means there's enough information for multiple valid interpretations.

They tried to drop information implying certain things, its all in his head, he had a heart condition, he didn't really get any useful information from the afterlife, because you can't tell yourself something you don't already know, etc. But all of that was dwarfed by the fact he was immortal.

well clearly not as most people are defending it ITT
it was a great finale, basically in line with the rest of the show
cant wait to rewatch it after some time has passed

Can we just admit Kevin had some sort of power? Stop trying to put real world logic to this, it's a while whole different type of world, may as well be an alternate universe.

Did they give her the same hormone blockers that they gave to Chloe? It's supposed to keep them looking younger for longer, but it probably also stops their tits from growing.

One of the flashbacks in the last sopranos episode was a character talking about how you don't even hear it coming, just black, and its over. Then the episode ends with just black, and its over. This is called foreshadowing.

Nora getting into the device and then the scene cutting off just as its either about to activate or she yells stop is not foreshadowing. It is the opposite of foreshadowing. As it doesn't indicate anything at all. Because it was specifically constructed to go either way, to be ambiguous.

I really don't know why you're so resistant to the idea the show was striving for ambiguity in all storylines.

Kevin just had a heat condition, my man. Apparently.

The finale was good. The penultimate episode was a pile of trash.

>27 posters
>73 posts

leftovers threads are primarily the same two people arguing. Been that way the entire run. You have damon lindelof on one side, defending his shit, and people who aren't stupid, calling out his shit.

>"Dona Nobis Pacem" starts playing

And as I wrote above, the final episode has many instances of foreshadowing or at least hints that Nora lies at the end:

> "I don't believe you" - First line said to Nora in the episode
> "That's not what happened" - Nora to Kevin at the house
> "It isn't the truth" - Nora to Kevin at the wedding
> "But you changed your mind" - Kevin to Nora in the final scene

In many storylines, yes. But not Nora's story. I argue it is clearly implied that she is lying in the episode itself.

Again, in the Sopranos they never explicitly say Tony dies, but give you enough major hints that you should be able to understand. I argue that the above lines and hints are the same deal. The creators wanted to imply she lies without actually showing the audience confirming evidence that she did.

There are some who believe Nora at face value, but this is because they choose to believe it rather than actually taking her story to task. If you actually break the story down, it is clear she lies, but, like many religious stories, people choose to believe anyway.

Australia is a fucking big country

Somebody spoil me the end please

I say this every time I see a Leftovers thread, I liked the finale, but season 3 episode 5 was the best. It was kind of a precursor to all the other character arcs ending, as their delusions come to an end and they're all humbled.

Whether she lied or not (and I do think it is pretty clear that she did), putting an answer like that in the show for the viewer to even consider is a bit disappointing and detracts from the true focus of the show, which has always been the characters. As far as Nora's caharacter is concerned, her development is still the same whether she lied or not; she has finally accepted the loss of her kids and has moved on. That makes the whole "did she lie or not" question seem irrelevant and it just gets in the way of what should be a revelatory moment for Nora

Not when your budget is small.

Literally this, would have been a perfect way to end. At least season 1 and 2 are still 10/10 and tell a complete story without season 3

The amount of proof for one interpretation does not mean the intent was not ambiguity. I'm specifically saying the show was trying to be ambiguous but failed.

The show was not character focused. Character focus would imply the character themselves have agency and influence over the events of the show. This is fundamentally not the case in leftovers. As the show is driven by random events falling on characters and character reacting to those events in the most dramatic ways possible.

> Nora tracks down the machine people
> They agree to let her go through
> Just as the machine is about to send her, it cuts away
> Years later (10, 15, 20?) Nora is living in solitude in Australia
> Kevin finds her. He spent years looking for her after Matt said she was gone, professes he was wrong about their final encounter and still loves her and wants to be with her
> Nora tells him the story of her going through to the other side where it is an identical world where only 2% of the population exists
> She finds her family, but sees her husband is remarried and her kids are happy as they are all together
> She realizes she doesn't belong in their lives anymore
> She finds the scientist who made the machine and he sends her back to the 98% world
> Since years had passed, she doesn't contact Kevin and lives in solitude
> She asks if Kevin believes her and he says he does.
> They end up together

Whether Nora's story was true (that she went to the 2% world) or that she lied (she chickened out and went into self-imposed exile) is technically never stated, although I am of the opinion the show clearly implies that she lied and never went through.

Yeah, a lot of the issues I had with season 3 can be traced back to it feeling too rushed compared to 1 and 2

I would argue the story was purposefully outlandish and unbelievable in order to imply that she was lying. I agree with you that the story was simply a way to show that Nora finally moved on and was able to accept her loss. She just needed the story to do it. Just like many may not fully believe in the Bible, but almost "need" to in order to be at peace with the uncertainty of life.

Nora lied

dude let the mystery be LMAO

And I disagree that the creators meant for Nora's tale to be ambiguous. I believe they clearly implied she was lying. Agree to disagree I suppose.

>Laurie didn't really kill herself

Trash finale

Never watched this show, seems like the only hook is why did people disappear. So???? why did they disappear?

i actually liked the last episode better than all the rest. the other episodes were too reddit for my taste

So, this entire time, you didn't even know what ambiguous meant. What the everloving fuck man.

Ambiguous means there's multiple valid interpretations. They tried really hard to lend credence to nora's story. They tried really hard to not directly contradict nora's story. The problem is they kinda forgot her entire storyline painted her as someone who would be more likely to chicken out and lie.

So, what happened with the 2%?

no. she went there and back again. a noras tale

This was pretty lame too, especially because there was literally no reason to have her there. They could have cut her scenes in the finale entirely and it would still make sense and her ending in ep6 would remain untarnished. Ep6 was one of the shows strongest moments and is an ambiguous ending done right. There plenty of reasons to believe both that she went ahead and finally killed herself or that she had last second doubts and came up from the water

accept the mystery