/noir/

talk about film noir

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Okay. Uhh... The Maltese Falcon is actually more like "proto-noir", not yet distinctive enough to define an entire genre (even though some people, like Steve Neal, would argue that 'film noir' cannot be regarded as a proper genre to start with) but sowing the seeds, if you will.

The definitive Bogey-fronted film noir would be The Big Sleep. And I guess the first film that really CONSCIOUSLY pushed every noir-button might've been Out of the Past.

inherent vice da bes'

what about Double Indemnity?that seemed to be doing it consciously

>someone recommends The Long Goodbye
>it's nothing but Elliot Gould smoking and mumbling incoherently for two hours and Altman utterly wasting Sterling Hayden.

The Third Man was good though.

I guess one of the main problems associated with film noir as a genre would be the fact that a lot of films within the 'noir canon' (as defined by Borde and Chaumenton) actually belong to a rather wide variety of supergenres.
There would be the examples mentioned in which are (hard-boiled) detective stories. But then you have films like Double Indemnity, whose protagonist is an insurance salesman and whose plot focuses on a criminal scheme (the plotting, not the revelation thereof).
You got cop movies, gangster films etc.

The justification for still deeming noir a genre is twofold though:
Firstly, the increasing implemenation of rather homogenous stylistic and narrative tropes, which would usually be associated with the establishment of a genre.
And secondly – an "ex post facto"-reason if you will – the establishment of 'neo-noir', which draws from elements that have been deliberately defined as 'noir' beforehand.

>it's nothing but Elliot Gould smoking and mumbling incoherently for two hours
Sounds like a 10/10

...

see
Yeah, I had almost forgotten abolut double indemnity at first, my bad!
Still, Double Indemnity INTRODUCED some elements, such as flashback narration, to the genre whereas Out of the Past draws frwon these pre-established elements.

And don't forget that Billy Wilder specifically named German Expressionism as one of his chief influences (such as the film's use of low key lighting, which would subsequently become an asset of 'noir' as a whole) but at that point, it wasn't like he was deliberately trying to cement a NEW genre's stylistic trends and tropes.

some good ones ive watched recently that dont get mentioned enough

The Sniper
Murder By Contract
99 River Street
The Harder They Fall

"The Big Sleep" is such a fun movie, but apparantly even Howard Hawks couldn't keep track of the plot.
What the movie really has going for it are its ladies though: Lauren Bacall, qt Margot Vickers and then it even has a brunette Dorothy Malone in this wonderful scene:
youtu.be/3t8H07c30io

Remember guys: Always bring "a bottle of pretty good rye", if you plan on forgetting your coat in your car.

*Martha Vickers

not Margot.

Noted. Thanks

>apparantly even Howard Hawks couldn't keep track of the plot

they had to severely tone down every sort of sexual implication found in Chandler's original novel thanks to the Hays Code.
But fortunately Hawks' real strength was always the direction of dialogue and Chandler's novel was a real treasure trove of quips and witticisms.
Add to that the chemistry between Bogart and Bacall and you get an extremely fun movie despite an overly convoluted plot.

You're a fucking clown. Citizen Kane is what largely shaped noir and Maltese Falcon was influenced by it before release

heh... hehehehe.

Your crying is cute. Please continue.

It really is

You only like it for le wacky plotline and talks about suicide.

What's the appeal of genreshit?

that you can discuss whether or not it's actually GENREshit.
And besides, most classics films noir are just fun to watch.

I thought it was apparently implied, but since you're slow I'll yell. WHAT'S THE APPEAL OF GENRESHIT TO THOSE THAT AREN'T RETARDED

Ok uhh, despite being more well known The Maltese Falcon is easily the better film. The Big Sleep sounds cooler, has a great set-up and first act, then... dissolves into an unending series of near meaningless vignettes in which everyone double crosses one another by pointing guns at each other. Doesnt have the tightness of Falcon, or the supporting characters, if you will.

Better Bogey noirs than Big Sleep: In a Lonely Place, Key Largo, Beat the Devil.

what's the appeal of disrupting a thread where there's some actual MOVIE DISCUSSION going on?

>John Huston
*sneers

>*sneers
John Huston is an American great, buddy. His deep cuts better than most's hits. Hawks is as well, but he has a number of better films than the overrated Big Sleep, which again, is fine, charming, influential, but not all its cracked up to be.

>youtu.be/3t8H07c30io
Well that scene was hot as fuck. It's been a few years since I've seen Big Sleep and forgot about it somehow. Wew.

Stating incorrect factoids to one another isn't discussion

one of the best

required prerequisite for these threads fyi

That's adorable.

underrated, underseen
not as self conscious as (the great) chinatown and the long goodbye, played straight, with a fittingly well worn Phillip Marlowe.

Cowboy Bebop should be released as a straight film noir titled "The Real Folk Blues" set in ~1950 USA, cutting all the space stuff. Most of the plot could easily remain the same.

>Okay. Uhh...
>if you will
>*sneers
>That's adorable
Your pretension doesnt read as savvy as you might imagine.

why was she so mean to the poor gy lads?

>entire flick is almost all closeups
How can it be underrated if it's shit?

I wanna fuck Lauren in the ass.

That nigga is Mark Ruffalo I swear.

>>entire flick is almost all closeups
This is a strange and inaccurate criticism.

People usually grow out of fantasies

so you like to come from behind?

It's not strange, it's just monotonous. A closeup is meant to emphasize. Seriously count how many midshots for dialogue scenes you see in it.

>People usually grow out of fantasies
lmao you're doing great, user keep going

>lmao
underageb&

*rolls eyes
heh

Killers Kiss is also pretty underrated considering Kubriick directed it

*yawns
Oh you're still here?

I didnt get that impression at all, there's close-ups on Marlowe to emphasize his weathered visage, but the camerawork does a great job to highlight the period space in which the action, and dialogue takes place, the apartments, clubs, bars, etc. Never felt to me constrained, but rather immersive in that space.

classic one

That's because the only good flicks he ever directed were Barry Lyndon and Eyes Wide Shut

>directs some of the best Noir Films of all time
>plays one of the best antagonists in movie history in the best Post Noir film of all time

Motherfucker

The Big Sleep is by far the best detective noir

Second place goes to Kiss Me Deadly

*flicks match against wall providing fleeting light in total darkness as cigarette is lit and inhaled deeply, pauses
Maybe, kid. Maybe.

see

You're trying too hard. If you knew how to write a novel, don't.

then correct them.

>If you knew how to write a novel, don't.
What did he mean by this?

is Ace in the Hole any good? can never be arsed to watch it

Don't speak when you don't know what you're talking about. There, I just corrected your biggest mistake.

Yes, it's excellent, i was really impressed. Besides being a good flick in and of itself w/ the story action it's a now-more-relevant-than-ever indictment of sensationalist news media/disaster porn.

I unironically wish I lived in a film noir, only seeing black-and-white and all else. It would be the comfiest life possible.

Is BLACKED film noir? Is Idris Elba film noir?

would you prefer Swahili, sweetie?

Then prove that I don't know what I'm talking about. Otherwise you're nothing but cancer.

>sweetie
hold up lemme add it to the list

>>Okay. Uhh...
>>if you will
>>*sneers
>>That's adorable
>>sweetie

>youll never beat the shit out of punks out the back of night clubs with Robert Mitchum and Lee Marvin in glorious black and white

need death

you forgot to smack your lips

It's a Billy Wilder film made during his prime filmmaking years, so yes

I just want the cool table lighter Bogart uses in "The Maltese Falcon".

If reading's too hard, you shouldn't be here at all

You know damn well you'd be the guy they are beating the shit out of. That's if you aren't a gunsel fuccboi

boy, you're annoying.

>jew
yeah nah

so note even Golden Age Hollywood threads are safe from Sup Forumsfaggotry. This entire site has really gone to shit.

*snores
Oh you're still here?

A jew that could make damn fine movies

Hollywood is and always has been OWNED by jews, deal with it. Feeling marginalized by the jews of hollywood is just the apex of pussydom.

This thread makes me happy that true kino lovers know the difference between film noir and neo-noir.

...

>still no NY noire

Remaster when? I missed this game. I didn't have a PS3 or an Xbox 360, and my laptop won't run it well. I'd like them to bring this game over to PS4 because I think it would be up my alley.

they confirmed a remaster coming

Oh baby. I'm hyped.

>getting hyped for a rinse and repeat game

Dangling keys in front of you must be equally excitable for you.

The Big _____

Guys

I like seeing how different auteurs do different things with the same stories and archetypes. Tonally aesthetically thematically etc. There's a big difference between Ford and peckinpah, kurosawa or gosha, Lang or Shane black... Yet they still feel like fitting pieces of a larger puzzle, there's a comfort from recognizing elements you've seen before and know you enjoy while still experiencing something fresh and unique. Some play it straight, some deconstruct the underlying subtext, some experiment with the visual style, some just embrace the fun... I like watching a modern western and see what influenced it, it gives me the feeling it's part of a family, a common mythology, whereas basic dramas or arthouse movies that are disconnected from other previous works don't give me that feeling of belonging and purpose. I noticed that dramas just get forgotten after the era they've been released in, not many people will go check out the Oscar winning relationship or biopic dramas of the 30s for example but wb gangster pics remain timeless because you might have seen them humorously referenced in sopranos, thematically deconstructed in once upon a time in America or lovingly homaged in Scorseses flicks so it makes you wanna explore the history of the genres and examine how they evolved.

is neo-noir allowed?

Yes, just ignore the pedants who will point out the difference.

And what's the difference?

This long-winded testimony is like seeing James Bond fans desperately defend their pulpy self-insert fantasies as high art. Try harder next time or get better taste

>not many people will go check out the Oscar winning relationship or biopic dramas of the 30s for example but wb gangster pics remain timeless
Sound like someone that thinks Citizen Kane should've won over How Green Was My Valley

The Big Goodbye

A couple decades

That's actually a rather good question. I for one would define neo-noir as 'post-code era films that are not part of the Borde/Chaumenton film noir canon, but draw major influences – stylistic, narrative et al. – from these classic noirs of the 1940s/50s'

But that's just my definition. Others would, for example, deem "Chinatown" an example of 'film noir' and only describe films that stick even less to formula, such as "Fargo" or "Drive", as 'neo-noir' ...

It's actually a good criticism. I haven't seen the film but it's a sign of bad cinematography IMO, it feels claustrophobic and makes you feel unease. I've seen films that use it as a stylistic, but they are pretty shitty in my opinion.

Touch of evil, Sweet Smell of Success, Out of the Past and The Third man are along my favorite noir films, though some don't follow the typical structural/writing patterns.

>Drive
>Sweet Smell of Success
People really don't know the definition of noir

The Hard Goodbye

which would be, you pretentious cunt?

They are loosely referred to as noir very often. Actually Drive is definitely neo noir. SSoS is not much of a noir film but follows some patterns as I said, visuals eg.