Libertarian to Fascism

Ive been a libertarian for years now, but im becoming more and more aware of its flaws; more specifically, its inability to stop the degeneration of a society. The only system that seems to be able to prevent that is fascism, but i cant seem get behind the whole "gigantic, omnipotent government that has the ability to do whatever the hell it wants" thing. Is there anything i can read or that you all can tell me to help me out here?

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Here's the thing to realize, OP:

Libertarian principles cannot be realized under democratic governance. Given the choice, the majority will gradually vote away their freedoms in the name of security and/or social justice.

Only a government that is not accountable to the majority can deliver real freedom.

But how do you decide who this is? Who has the right to that power? How do you ensure they dont immediately become corrupt?

/thread
We have reached the point where we are already oppressed by liberal goverment. The left has actually became the facist regime. So we need to revert back to right wing to preserve our way of life.

>room full of monarchists
>ok... so who becomes the king?
>everyone raises their hand

Here's the thing about fascism, my man.

It works for like 10 or so years, then goes straight down the crapper.

The government tries to control every aspect of your life, arbitrarily says what is "degenerate" and what is not, and silences anyone who disagrees.

It is a ideology of stagnation. If you want to start reevaluating your political philosophy, instead of making an oppressive corrupt system of government, start with taking away universal suffrage which is actually reasonable.

corruption eventually happens, which is why we need pic related

this guy is right, which is why the U.S. govt is set up the way it is, mostly

See, you get what im talking about. The only problem is, if you're removing the right to have a say in society, arent you infringing on their liberty? Theres got to be some form of middle ground
So essentially, you need a dormant yet omnipotent power that can step in when necessary, but is opposed by a populace that actually values their own rights and is willing to fight

I feel you. I care a lot more about the demographics than I did before, so I consider myself a Hoppe libertarian. I don't believe in democracy but I don't believe in a huge government either.

Maybe a monarchy with an armed populous and a constitution would be better? At least we know who to replace if they start fucking things up, making our leader's self interest ties in with our own.

You're still putting the power into the hands of the people to govern themselves, but you are using a filter to make sure their voice is educated.

Your filter can be whatever you want. It used to be you had to own land and be a white male in the US, as these were the people who could actually afford education.

I'm a fan of the Starship Troopers method of having to do military service to gain your rights.

You're leaning towards fascism. I can relate in the sense that fascism is a good social policy, just not a governance system. What I mean by this is that humans naturally subscribe to hierarchy and no one is equal. You will have stupid people, you will have smart people.

When you give everyone the right to vote thinking that they're somehow equal in their education, you turn campaigns into pandering and voting into a meme.

Leaning towards you guys. There has to be some form of control, on both who gets a say and what is allowed, but by and large people should be left the fuck alone. However, the idea that somehow everyone is magically completely the equal because we happen to exist in the same are is ridiculous. Im not as smart as a brain surgeon, so you shouldnt treat me as one, etc.

Democracy just turns politicians into whores instead of leaders. How can you enforce policy when you have to suck satans dick for the money?

Libertarianism would work if we removed every last Jew from our nation.

Is there such a thing as a theocratic libertarian?

Libertarian-ism can work if degeneracy was kept at bay.

Libertarianism can only work in a world where there are not other states, especially hostile ones. It's one of those ideologies where either everyone is Libertarian or it can't work.

I swallowed the Fascism fill a while ago. If you need some help, brother, just let me know. I can attempt to answer questions or lead you to some other reading material.

No. Moral policing and libertarianism are not really compatible.

I think you're actually moving onto level 4 of the redpill which is traditionalism. It's where I am right now. I don't know where to go from here. Fascism stagnates, libertarianism corrupts, communism is a scam.

I recommend two very short books
The Way of Men and A Sky Without Eagles

They review the importance of masculinity, meritocracy, and social fascism and even touch on how the west is declining.


That aside, something to remember is a good argument against universal suffrage is the concept of applying for a job.

If people who believed in 100% democracy were consistent, they'd want people to get jobs instead of having to apply for them.

You apply for a job because the company wants people that are actually educated and skilled enough to contribute to the company's success instead of a random guy who just wants gibs me dat (blacks voting for more welfare instead of the issues).

it's really just the cyclic nature of our world. one generation fights valiantly to build up their civilization and the next breeds slobs and degenerates. you always want your children to live comfortable lives, but without actual hardship people will make up oppression out of thin air

it just sucks that you were born now. or maybe not, depending on how this election pans out.

in the end though, you really only have 2 choices. have a family and grow your children in the best way that you know how or shitpost on a mongolian cave painting forum.

So a libertarian society works, but not with humans. Because humans are naturally hedonistic.

So what is the answer? I agree with OP, I just can't call myself a fascist. the movement seems to extreme to me.

Regulating morality never works, so it's best to just implement a free market so the degenerates fail spectacularly and hard workers have all the money.

So people on Sup Forums are literally asking to get brainwashed now?
>No homo, but you've convinced me to take the cock. Help pls

American nazism isn't fascist. This is what you should be looking at. It's the end goal.

How the fuck do you go from an ideology that supports a minimal central government to one that supports an extremely heavy, nationalistic government? Can't you autists formulate your own beliefs with bits and pieces of concepts instead of just going full force forward into one specific idea?

>If people who believed in 100% democracy were consistent, they'd want people to get jobs instead of having to apply for them

Except I deserve a vote because I pay taxes. I don't deserve a job because the company didn't take anything from me by force.

RARE
A
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E

Not with an airtight constitution that strictly prevents the Government from taking away their freedoms, even if they're voted away

Ill check those books out asap. I know very little about traditionalism- isnt that essentially just monarchism?

My main question is how do you avoid that omnipresent government from turning on you? Sure, it represents you in the beginning, but eventually you will fall out of favor and become obsolete right? How does it handle social change/struggles? Are there any books to read about it?

Humans will continue to evolve to a point where hedonism may take a back seat to other, more pressing matters. There will always be a biological imperative to breed, but not to be a degenerate and whore.

Fascism can work if approached in the proper mentality and that mentality is maintained instead of corrupted by people who want to go full blown communism (oy vey). The problem is that fascism is a dirty word and even considering it in a public forum is enough to get you labeled as a lunatic

first off rare
second off, how is asking for information cuck? Im currently in the least cucked mindset, i just want to see whats on the other side. stop projecting from your irrelevant country and go prep your bull

Tell that to congress and Obama

When you defund welfare and incentives for niggers and shitskins to reproduce, niggers and shitskins wil depopulate, and cease to be a problem. I like shitposting and freedom of speech a lot, why should I surrender it to a LARPer government?

That's why we have a 2nd amendment. No use in having '''rights''' if we can't defend them

Protip: Every last ideology is flawed in some way. Libertarians will turn their country into a toxic dump full of waste and pollution. Fascist society is boring and oppressive. Communism fails in the first 5 minutes. It really comes down to your own personal values.

Traditionalism is the sense that there is no universal concept of "man", but rather we are all very different from person to person to country to country.

It is the acknowledgement in hierarchies, gender roles, family, and nationalism.

We got lazy I think. Degenracy wasn't rampant 70 years ago because we had more pressing matters.

It really is true that a war resets the society.

No use in having a constitution of the majority of the country wants it changed. I see your logic and I will fight until the end to uphold all our rights. But we have people in this country that willingly vote to be slaves and our federal govt happily obliges them

Underrated post

The help is this. If there's no government welfare fund, there's no comfortable life for degenerates. People could do what they wanted, so long as they work for it. No instant gratification.

you pay your boss in labor, but that doesn't mean every peon from the cashiers to the executives has the right to decide who manages the company.

>its inability to stop the degeneration of a society.

A nationalist state with strong borders but libertarian *internal* economic policies is possible

Fascism is just a faggoty nonsense political platform design to recruit untermensch to fight for the right wing using leftist sloganeering. It's crap

That's the thing, our constitution was not worded explicitly enough to erase all room for argument. Plus our Supreme Court keeps fucking up when it comes to keeping things constitutional:

the concept of an absolute free market is pretty dumb under Libertarianism though.

People do what is in their self interest and are more concerned about the product than if species XYZ may be affected by the company's pollution 20 years from now.

Hmm. alright ill pick those books up and read. Its worth checking out at least

This guy gets it. We just need some Fascism to facilitate the transition and purge the Marxist degenerates from our society.

>the concept of an absolute free market is pretty dumb under Libertarianism though.
>People do what is in their self interest and are more concerned about the product than if species XYZ may be affected by the company's pollution 20 years from now.

That is true.

The one appeal of fascism is the government stamping out industries that are harmful to the long-term health of the society.

I personally would destroy the hardcore porn industry, the videogame industry, and probably ban all anime

Alt-right is the new libertarian. Just follow the crowd like a good goy.

Nah, senpai.

Then you get into arbitrary territory where random things can be deemed degenerate, and the government can just name their enemies and opposition as such and get rid of them. Improve the culture, don't just ban things that the culture likes, otherwise they will grow to hate you and continue being degenerate.

Capitalism is good, but needs third party regulation because people won't care otherwise if their product hurts someone and not everyone is educated enough to fully grasp the consequences of their actions. It must be someone's job to care.

For example, Apple's working conditions are so terrible, they have anti-suicide nets on their factories, yet they are one of the biggest tech companies out there.

That's called cosmopolitanism. Libertarians are for decentralization and freedom of association.

Is there such a thing as a nationalist state that is environmentally conscious?

I am nationalist, traditionalist, but I also love nature.

>the videogame industry, and probably ban all anime

And this is why fascism is retarded. What is 'good' for the country is completely subjective and in the decision is in the hands of some boring faggot Chad.

Alt-right is traditionalist, but the left is trying to frame it as racist neocons and anyone who isn't a democrat or republican and many other right wing groups are trying to claim the title as well

and the decision is in the hands of some boring faggot Chad*

I dunno what you're talking about buddy, but Moldovan borsch is amazing.

>environmentally conscious
who gives a shit? earth will eventually run its course; mankind should focus on colonizing other planets

Read "A Critique of Democracy" by Michael Anissimov

> What is 'good' for the country is completely subjective
agreed, which is why fascism is so dangerous.

There has to be a balance.

Finally understanding of the nature of man is how you go from that one extreme to the other.

Maybe you're thinking of ciorba, and that is a romanian dish. Moldova is an artificial state, and borsch is a russian dish.

Firstly, I'm the bull.
Secondly, I don't know for how long you've been here but you have to realize what's happening. The """alt-right""" was just a way to fight SJW with their weapons, it was for fun and lulz, now it's a collective hivemind turning into cancer. You were convinced about freedom and now you are literally asking advice to get over it.
>but i cant seem get behind the whole "gigantic, omnipotent government that has the ability to do whatever the hell it wants" thing. Is there anything i can read or that you all can tell me to help me out here?
Sup Forums needs to wake up before it's too late

>Firstly, I'm the bull.

This land is a gift from God, why must we desecrate it?

I think we can agree that traditionalist/alt-right threads probably have the most productive discussion

>freedom is dumb
>le ebin degeneracy maymay

because there are niggers, chinks and poo in loos who on it, as well, who won't give a shit about shitting all over the place for economic growth
and as long as there isn't a united people running it, hippie faggots are irrelevant

>im the bull
sure pal

>REEEEEE

(you) will be the first ones in the ovens

wew

I agree with you that porn, video games, and anime are all very bad things in our society, but it's a better solution to fix the culture instead of just ban things you don't like.

If you were to ask 1000 people something they would ban to make society better, you'd get many vastly different answers.

Nazis were
The socialism meme was just to restart Germany and was olyn supposed to last 10 years then they would switch to a real economy.
Don't let the Reds lie to you mate

>specifically, its inability to stop the degeneration of a society

anti segregation laws had to be put in place because whites were exercising their freedom of association (cornerstone of libertarianism) and refusing to interact with niggers.

but tell me more about how fascists and libertarians should fight each other on this board instead of taking down hillary

give the government enough power to silence your enemies, and it will use it against you sooner than later. youre a dumb fucking goof

Ah, was probably just Russian style borsch then.

As Christians, we must do our best to treat our home as it is God's kingdom. What others do is on their free will, but maintaining a proper society and being in balance with nature is not bad at all.

Or would you rather us have landfills everywhere and shit all over the place because "Fuck it, no one else gives a shit, so I don't have to either"

Read The Handbook of Traditional Living. That's pretty good.

Sorry kiddo, uncle hitler's not going to step in and save you from people who disagree with you on the internet.

Perhaps if that government were representative of its people it would retain the same interests as its people and therefore would keep doing what is best foe both.

This could be possible for instance in a homogenous society or a smaller coty state...Anissimov uses the example of Mormons forming their own state and their own government...because they have the same values and beliefs and most are closely related it is unlikely that the 'privatized' or fascist government would have interests that differ from its people. Furthermore he makes the point that the people would have a high degree of trust in the government.

You know who actually WON'T do that?

Straight white men.

The only stupid fucking thing they'll do is let their wives vote and then everything goes to shit.

Under a decentralized government, no authority will be able to produce landfills in already-existing communities.

Well, you are virgin NEETs, so I have to give a hand.
Also, check these

Where would trash go?

I'll say it again, OP. The American Nazi Party is what you're looking for.

A system built on lies will not hold.

youtube.com/watch?v=x1tUFx_StSo

Why not?

...

burned, or wherever the elected officials of smaller communities decide to take it
because decentralization implies removal of power of the central government

The current American Nazi Party is a bunch of sadsack looking rednecks.

The American Renaissance style is much better.

We'll see how this ends. Whether good or bad, I'm right either way.

I'm talking about the orinal. You don't need to have the name. In fact, remove the name nazi. Call it something different. Maybe something with love in it, but keep the ideas and values.

not an argument

We'll think of a name later. We don't have one now. For now we are nebulous angry white men, happy warriors.

I'm in love with that girl.

A republic with restricted voting rights seems the best solution to me. By restricted I mean voting is a privilege not a right that is gained through service to the country. Even something so basic as having payed taxes say 46 out of the 48 months since the last election, it makes sure only people with a stake in society gets a say and shuts out the gibs me dat freeloaders.
It is also necessary to make sure that expanding voting rights to others is banned in the constitution, since that is often used as a method of the ambitious to gain power in history. Making sure all military and veterans gets voting rights as well will likely help prevent anybody altering said constitution since the military would get a reduced say in society, and having the force of arms on your side is always necessary to keep law in place.

Relevant pic related.

Fuck the supreme court. How does an institution give itself power? Why did they allow it?

and the state governments dissolved their influence in the federal government

I know it's all fucking gay and garbage

Harsh libertarianism with a competitive education system (and maybe orchestrated wars) could keep the populace hardened. That combined with public pressure and harsh, immovable communicated justice systems should keep degeneracy in check. Decentralized power structures and keeping the people in local militias, trained and armed, with the idea of "tyrannicides", overthrowing any who get too powerful, should keep the libertarian system from being taken over by singular powers, like Caesars or oligarchical corporations. We have the technology to make it work, society would resemble some of the greatest civilizations in history, early greece, the roman republic, Jeffersonian america, democracy was never meant to be more then a conversation between armed and informed equals, government should be no more. Fascism is too unstable and given inwards competition with libertarianism is still the ideal.

>all monarchists think they should be the king

You have a poor understanding of Monarchism.

This. Basically libertarianism is just an evolutionary inevitability, the only thing up for debate is the exact path that will lead us there.

Think of countries like cells of an organism, and the higher the cell count the more advanced the organism. That's why big unions like the EU and USA are doomed to fail. One day (maybe a few centuries of years from now) it will get down to city-states and all of a sudden anarcho-capitalism won't look so unrealistic, but ancaps won't really care anymore because a world made up of city-states would still be pretty damn good.

It will not work like that Sven. People are animals so if theres is no work, food, sociality they will just take it or trying to take.