Why can "real communism" never exist?

why can "real communism" never exist?

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Because Communism is evil.

because your mom takes my hulking dick up the ass like a dirty bitch every night

faggot

lmao

The way to achieve it is by giving power to the state util it controls everything and then expecting it will relinquish its power in the name of nothing.

not argument

Because communism doesn't real

Because it doesn't work.

>/thread.

i personally think you cant have a group of more than 2 humans in a group without a hierarchy occurring, imagining an anarchist society where hierarchies would not occur is entirely inhuman and anti every natural living animal

Because communism is just the carrot, Communism isn't the actual endgame, Despotism is the inevitable result everytime.

because it forces people into molds they don't necessarily fit in. what happens when the people assigned to factory A65 don't want to work anymore because their neighbors do nothing but sit at home all day? you have to use violent coercion to keep communism working, which then leads to violent dictatorship.

>study for years
>spend countless nights mastering a subject
>get a degree
>work as a scientist, doctor, economist, mathematician,...
>put a lot of effort in your job, try to be as productive as possible
>lazy bum who only cleans 1 toilet per day get's the same house, car and paycheck as you
>become lazy and unproductive yourself because why bother
>economy slowly comes to a standstill in the medium/long run
Communism sometimes works in the short run but it has and probably never will work in the medium to long run

Because people can't stop exploiting each other.

No matter how good they think they are. No matter how figured out they think they have it. Corruption seeps in.

Profit motive drives risk taking. Risk taking brings progress. Communism always breaks down eventually either via corruption or sheer failure. What are you complaints about capitalism? Too much food? Not enough skeleton children in the streets? Too many fat homeless people? Too many variations of chips? Too much entertainment?

For two reasons:

1) A government committee cannot gather and interpret all of the information required to make efficient market decisions in real time.

2) Even if some mechanism existed whereby a committee could obtain the required information in real time, there is no mechanism by which said committee can be compelled to make efficient decisions. You have the immediate problems of nepotism and corruption. But an even more insidious problem is that human beings are far from rational and tend to believe what they will despite the evidence.

It can once the tech is good enough.

Farmers are basically an extreme minority but feed the world thanks to huge increases in tech (third world sustinence farmers notwithstanding)

Eventually everything will be automated and the capitalistic mode of production will whither away as did feudalism before it.

It's a system that fails when given the constraints of human nature

"Real" anything cant exist. People will always move goalposts. Governmental and economic policies are very complex and nuanced, much so that it's not possible to reduce them to a rudimentary philosophy.

Communism is shit but your argument screams "im a high school student".

>giving an institution almost absolute control over meaning of production
>expecting them to give them away and don't take profit

Marx's original theory was that under sustained socialism, the state would eventually wither and give way to a stateless society where all are equal. However, before that could happen, the role of the state was to ensure the economic equality of all of it's citizens. When a spirited and driven individual ends up getting ahead, is is bound to happen, the state has to step in and make them equal to their comrades again. Since people will never stop striving to be better and get ahead, the state must perpetually postpone the withering process so it can secure the equality. The result is a totalitarian regime that controls is citizenry.

because atheists

back 2000 years ago they had a form of communism running where people are selfless and pool their resources because they believed in God which means theyre grafted into the selfless mindset because thats how Jesus is

Acts 4:32
And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.

When you have wicked followers of satan in control of your "communism" then thats where the leaks come from

You need to be christian, and have a voluntary community of communism of people who want to share

Money is a scourge and the root of all evil.

Because it will turn out shit and therefore be not real.

Too idealistic to be practical.

In the minds of Marxists, communists, and other leftists, communism does work where it is tried. Everyone is the same status (except the Party, but the people are the same). They don't care how rich or poor everyone is, as long as they're the same.

Left wing politics (communism included) has an overly optimistic view of human nature. The ontological foundations of their beliefs are basically fairy stories.

Also Marx never addressed the problems of scarcity of resources and the resulting conflicts......we don't live on a planet of infinite resources. People will fight over them and these conflicts will not be mediated by the paradigm of class.

But it exists.

Why is that alien's head shaped like a mailbox?

It has existed, and hundreds of millions died for it.
>b-b-but muh flavor of communism-
No, it's been tried, fuck off.

Also, anyone ever notice the difference between advocating communism and advocating national socialism in public?

yes argument

It does.

It didn't because you can't just jump from feudalism to socialism.
Defintion of socialism:
a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.

The USSR wasn't ever socialist.

>Marx
>Relevant

>has an overly optimistic view of human nature
There's no such thing as human nature.

Human error

Because tyranny will always be opposed.

because we're flawed and because niggers

I thought that pagans were evil devil worshippers? Unless you're trying to say that Israel is the only place where primitive communism existed.

Socialism is the opposite of selfless

If you're working and middle class you're not only sacrificing your work as you're being exploited but you're also sacrificing your ego to earn more, all for someone who isn't even needed....

>There's no such thing as human nature.
dumbest thing I've ever read. most modern marxists today even agree that the whole revolution-as-a-pathway-to-communism doesn't end up working because it goes against human nature. that's where the whole "it's inevitable if you just let it happen naturally" argument came from

The thing is that the definition of communism, socialism, marxism, capitalist etc are all pretty hazy. You cannot simply look at each of them as a system, but rather a spectrum (also there is the whole 2D element of the spectrum with authority vs liberty spectrum).
The main thing that changes as you move from left to right is the difference between the lowest classes of society (the poor) and the higher classes (the rich). In a 100% pure undiluted communist society, everyone is 100% equal. Even the smartest geniuses are treated the exact same way as the all the retards and peasants. As you move to the right, a a difference in quality of life begins to become visible between the lower and higher contributing people in society. This gap keeps increases as the more right wing governments remove more and more left wing policies such as healthcare, public education, etc. This keeps going until you arrive at either facism or anarcho capitalism where the poor get 0 help from the government and the rich are treated like gods.
So they only thing you have to decide when chosing what system you like is where you chose to draw the balancing line between rewarding the best members of society and helping the worst. If you look at the top countries to live in the world right now (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Development_Index) they are all pretty socialist, so I guess you can say the best spot to draw the line is where they do

Because true Communism advocates the eventuality of a stateless society.

A Communist State is in and of itself a contradiction.

Besides, a stateless society can never form because as long as there are divisions that incentivize organization, or better known as human nature, there will be states.

>muh horseshoe theory
Kill yourself retard.

Why is it dumb? inb4 non arguments

>most modern marxists today even agree that the whole revolution-as-a-pathway-to-communism doesn't end up working because it goes against human nature.
>appeal to authority fallacy
Got any proof? Also what do you mean by Marxist? Traditional marxism is dead, are you talking about leninists,socialists,democratic socialists,syndicalists,anarchism ect?

>that's where the whole "it's inevitable if you just let it happen naturally" argument came from
What?

It has worked. youtube.com/watch?v=zIddCEBCKHQ

True Communism would require an abolition of currency, which no modern nation would ever do.

Socialism is when the workers own it not the state you're talking about state capitalism.

because it's a meme designed to appeal to credulous idiots

Un

>muh American dream
lol do you still really believe in that crap?

Because there is too many people on this planet

Because for their eternal waffling about equality, communist are the most exclusionary, divisive and inner circle collectivist you can ever find.

lol who cleans 1 toilet a day

>where people are selfless and pool their resources because they believed in God

you mean scared into giving what they could, and giving it to an elite class that takes advantage of them. have you seen some churches?

Also what do you mean by Marxist? Traditional marxism is dead, are you talking about leninists,socialists,democratic socialists,syndicalists,anarchism ect?
I'm talking about self proclaimed marxists that believe in the same thing but just believe in different ways of achieving it.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marxism–Leninism
That ^ was the predominant marxist ideology of the past. "The goal of Marxism–Leninism is the development of a state into a socialist republic through the leadership of a revolutionary vanguard". The idea of needing a revolution has faded out of the spotlight for most marxists today.
>that's where the whole "it's inevitable if you just let it happen naturally" argument came from
>What?
That is the new marxist belief in the spotlight currently. That you need to go from capitalism -> socialism -> communism in a natural way, not by revolution. They think this progression is inevitable.
>Got any proof?
Well nothing to link you to really. But I'm sure you aware of the whole idea of communists claiming something "wasn't real communism" or something along those lines. that train of thought came about from people claiming it wasn't really communism as it should be because it didn't come about naturally. they believe societies that came from a capitalist revolution are bound to fail so it wasn't really communism. Also anecdotally, the few marxist friends I have told me they believe in this sort of marxism, not the revolutionary kind. I never met anyone who's calling for a revolution but I bet there are some. I just believe that isn't the prominent form of marxism right now. you can also see that by Sup Forums claiming there are "secret" marxists in places like colleges and the like. They are trying to achieve their goals naturally not by revolution.

forgot to > the first line

Because there are communists, COMMUNISTS, and ((communists)).

>state capitalism
oxymoron

>UK
Do you still believe in that?

Because star trek isn't real yet

No senpai

Pagans are basically just any Europeans that practice religions that are not Abrahamic in origin.

Obviously there are some religions that are pretty sketch, but many of them are fairly normal.

>That is the new marxist belief in the spotlight currently. That you need to go from capitalism -> socialism -> communism in a natural way, not by revolution. They think this progression is inevitable.
This is by no means new. Marx wrote extensively how a revolution would have to take place in industrialized nations like England or Germany and wrote a lot about how a revolution in feudalistic Russia would never work.

Also Marxism in general is not the same thing as Marxism Leninism.

Nice try though.

>bunch of murderers
wew nice list
youtube.com/watch?v=56V6r2dpYH8

Because there tends to be really shitty evil individuals within the system.


Communism represents a system where this individuals can and will rise to the top almost immediately.

Genocide of the poor class.

I want to live poor. I won't be forced to work in the name of false prosperity and jewish wealth. I am rich in blessings from God.

Because it was already tried over and over and nothing good came out of it. It's always a complete failure and it goes against human nature.

Two Russian men are walking down the streets of Moscov

The first man says to the other:
>Is this it comrade? Have we finally achieved full communism?

The other man faces the other and responds;

>No comrade, things will get much worse

Equality is non existent.
Individuals within a species vary, which is how evolution by natural selection occurs.

By this logic, no-one is equal, unless you lower everyone to the lowest level, as you cannot raise the deficient to the level of the gifted.

Therefore, "real Communism" where everyone is truly equal cannot exist.

Along with this, al it takes is one shitty person or psychopath to hijack the system and it's game over.

So you meant communism and not marxism? Please tell that you aren't one of those cultural marxism is a thing "race mixing equals communism" people.

>That ^ was the predominant marxist ideology of the past.
It wasn't in Spain,Ukraine,Yugoslavia ect

>The idea of needing a revolution has faded out of the spotlight for most marxists today
For who? (((Bernie))) fags? Do they think the bourgeoisie are simply going to hand them their power? Vanguardism is shit though.

I think that's because of technology (automation.space mining ect) not because of human nature

No the whole "not real communism/socialism" comes from the fact that the workers didn't own the means of production which is the very definition of them.

I think you have workers controlling the mop and communism mixed up

Communism existed in the Christian form in a community known as the Diggers in England during the early period of Oliver Cromwell. It was voluntary and was eventually destroyed by Cromwell.

no

Beady, your argument is instantlyinvalid. Stay on your island, no one wants you.

The reason "real Communism" can't happen, at least right now, is because human nature is the way it is.

Islamization is caused by capitalism.
I'm not a muh muhslim kinda guy but I'm against mass immigration because it goes against the intrests of unions.
Have you even read the bible?
>le capitalist country that has been at war for almost every year in its existence
They were fighting against their oppressors surely an American would understand that.
Go back to ancapistan.

were they catholic?

Communism implies that all people are the same but that is and will never the case.

There will always be an entity in a communist society that will hold more power than the rest.

Human greed

No what?
Protestants

christ you're an idiot and that picture is incredibly fucking stupid

I think they were some sort of Anabaptist of some sort but they were definitely protestant. They believed in small communities which is interesting.

go to sleep corbyn
don't you have to shag abbott?

You know in common law they don't have this problem because you are automatically granted an easement by necessity to access any land you own if all the land around it is bought up?

>that image
So anarcho-capitalism would be like The Sims?

because someone will come along and fuck it up

>ad-hom
not even a remotely accurate one. Still doesn't change the fact you're wrong

It may scream "I'm a highschool student," but is in essence the reason everytime communism is implemented it fails. The motivated earn nothing more than the lazy sack of shit doing fuck all. And eventually the motivated person gives up because no matter what he will always get the same amount of bread as the unmotivated person. Which in most communist societies is none

shut up fedora

Every time communism becomes a thing somewhere all the lefties say "this is not real communism" because communism is fucking retarded.

Please read more.

Granted by whom?

1) ethically incoherent - the rejection of private property is an atom bomb on any kind of moral reality... it directly controverts human nature (that YOU own your own body, nobody else, and you own the effects of labour with that body), and necessitates a system of totalitarian control to implement

2) socialist economic calculation problem means it's inherently unsustainable - (layman explanation here: smilingdavesblog.blogspot.ca/2012/08/mises-calculation-problem-in-simple.html )

Resources are limited. Human desires are infinite. Social orders, governments, laws... all these things arise to reduce the conflict that arises from those realities.

If your economic system is incapable of addressing the above, then it's D.O.A.

What? That never happened. Communism could work with a large enough social capital, eg homogenity. Same with socialism

Because humans

made up commie bullshit. literally every textbook definition besides those made by wimpy marxists who don't want to own their failures requires private ownership for it to be capitalism. Calling something state capitalism because you don't want to admit socialism failed just makes the term capitalism meaningless. You should try reading something other than Hegel, Chomsky or fucking Wikipedia.

it's what (((they))) want

>moral
>reality

But anyway lets assume that you're right why stop at property and not carry on too humans or things like that? We've been enslaving and breaking the NAP for thousands of years m8 it's just h u m a n n a t u r e

The reason resources are scare is because of capitalism just look at how much food we waste.

Will you become a socialist when space mining becomes the norm or will you cling onto your i d e o l o g y?

It's one thing to write and learn from a book, but to put it into practice, it becomes a different affair. Communism does not take human nature into account as far as I am aware.

>made up commie bullshit.
How is it made up? Please no fallacies (which are untrue btw) like the appeal to authority one that you just used.

You literally pulled up a wiki definition of capitalism so I'll do the same for socialism
"Socialism is a range of economic and social systems characterised by social ownership and democratic control of the means of production; as well as the political ideologies, theories, and movements that aim at their establishment."

Can you not see the blatant difference between socialism and state capitalism or do you have a hard time reading?

>The reason resources are scare is because of capitalism just look at how much food we waste.
I can't stop laughing at this. the amount of retardation in this sentence is too much.

>The reason resources are scare is because of capitalism just look at how much food we waste.

Food going to waste is a result of poorly educated humans.
Also,
>implying commies aren't wasteful

top memes, amicable friend person

Neck yourself, you fucking pinko scum

>English isn't his first language guys hahaha BTFO dude insert meme arrow and meme reaction image hahaha cuck lmao
You know what I mean faggot.

0/10

while it's partially true that's not the whole reason
if it were simply a matter of wasted potential then the USSR wouldn't have collapsed due to corruption

How is working for your boss not in your self interest?