QUESTION

I work at a tire factory. And I make tires out of raw rubber, and I make one tire per hour. The rubber costs $5 per tire and the rent for the factory building and tools comes out to $5 per tire. And I get paid $18 per hour. Each tire I make is sold for $75 to a local tire store, which sells it to consumers.

So, I turned $10 worth of raw material and overhead into $75 dollars worth of tire. That means my labor was worth $65 dollars.

Why am I only getting paid $18? Why am I not paid $65 dollars per hour?

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management needs their cut, ware house middle man needs their cut, truckers need their cut and the retail store needs thier cut

Our American education everyone...

Labor supply and demand.

How much does the tire making machine cost?
How much do the lights costs?
How much does the shit cost to get the tires to the store?
How many other people helped you make the tire?

This is why you work at a tire factory.

who moves the rubber to the factory
who operates the factory
who maintains the work floor
who maintains the tools
who markets the tire
who moves the tire to the store

This is why you make $18/hr.

SHART

Why don't you open your own factory and make yhe tires and have all the money?

because you chose to work for $18 per hour instead of opening up a tire factory, the work you do can be done by someone else for much cheaper

Start your own business then moron. You'll question as to why you have to pay employees, bills, rent.

>$18/hr for a tyre factory employee

is the answer

Capitalism is about making money for yourself. That's the objective.

>ignoring utilities
>ignoring upstart costs
>ignoring shipping costs
>ignoring insurance
>ignoring advertising
>ignoring pay for other.departments such as security, office, and other administrative work
>ignoring miscellaneous costs not outlined
>ignoring owner wants some profit tooffset risks and to.expand the business.

Who is this cutie patootie

also
>american education

Overhead cost you piece of shit. Go make tires on your own and see how well that goes retard. $18 an hour is good money for a low skill job like that anyway.

Because when you were hired, you and your employer agreed to an $18 salary.

If you had insisted on $65, your employer would have found someone who was satisfied with $18.

Why do Marxists have to have this constantly explained to them?

This.

OP you are trying to argue you should reap the full benefits of a business without taking the RISKY initial steps of opening. If you want the big bucks than you have to be in the position yourself, you can't just swoop into the minority of businesses that have succeeded and expect to reap the benefits. Most businesses fail, but those that do, the founders benefit enormously.

>management needs their cut, ware house middle man needs their cut, truckers need their cut and the retail store needs thier cut

The trucking is paid by the retail store. The retail store buys it from us for $75 and sells it for $130 so they are already getting their cut. We have no warehouse middleman, the tires go from factory storage to the local tire store.

So that leaves management.

But management just sits in their offices and orders me to make the tires. That's not a real job, it's just leeching off my work.

Should I form a union or something? or contact a local union? Who should I talk to about this?

What price and volume did the retailer negotiate with the company?
How much does the company pay in tax?
How much is the overhead for payroll, HR, compliance, etc.?

This covers pretty much everything.

>Why am I only getting paid $18? Why am I not paid $65 dollars per hour?
Ask your boss.

How is the company going to make any money if you are making $65 an hour? Troll or retard?

what pays your boss, janitor, maintenance, admins and so on. You are a small piece in a large machine, get over it.

If you don't know about a union and aren't part of one, the company most likely has a non-union clause to keep retards like you from making twice as much as you deserve.

Please for the sake of our country's reputation on this board for the love of God tell me you are not this retarded.

Why don't you become a manager and do their "non-job" instead of working a job that will be replaced by automation?

It's literally not even work so how hard could it be to do nothing, right?

This is the reality with communism. The elite of the communist revolutions jsut use fucktards like this so that they can go out and kill as many people as they want. That's all the system is really about. They want to murder and act out all the vicious evil in their heart, so they manipulate the stupid serfs such as yourself to accomplish this true goal of theirs. Then when their bloody revolution is done they get to kill you too.

Fucking dumb kid

Don't forget Obama needs to pay for his invaders to have somewhere to live

He takes a cut

A communist most likely, so the latter

>surplus value meme

Whenever Communists try to claim the workers are exploited because their produce is sold at a higher value than the worker is paid, I have to laugh.

Have you ever talked to the average Prole? They're mainly bumbling retards that would be living in primitive squalor had the elites (at various times being the patricians, then the nobility, then the capitalists) not been their to direct their labor to building civilized society.

More simply, pic related is your answer. The reason you are not paid the full value of your produce is because you are a cog in the machinations of greater men. The factory you work in, the great chains of hierarchy and assembly you take for granted, are only possible because they were dreamed up by the minds of your superiors.

Now get back to making tires, plebeian.

They own everything in the first place, and let you make $18 an hour, you fucking ingrate.

The total overhead costs of land, building rent, equipment rent, lights, ac, etc. come out to $5 per tire.

The total raw material cost, including delivery come out to $5 per tire.

Raw material plus overhead is $10. We give the tire to the store's truck guy for $75.

Where is this $65 dollars going? Why am I only getting $18 of it?

I think I will have to form a union or something...

FPBP goes to James Bond

No, you shouldn't. If you think management is easy, open a damn tire factory. But you won't, because you don't know how, and if you did, you wouldn't know how to succeed. And most of all, you're afraid to, because deep down, you know you can't.

$18 dollars an hour. To make tires.

You don't realise how well off you are.

Start your own factory and pay your workers $65/hour. Please let us know how it goes.

you took on no Risk

/thread. Get a real job op

you dumb fucking commie read the fucking thread fucking fuckity fuck

Who trained you? Who supervises you? Who paid for all the machinery that processes rubber into a tire? Who paid for the facility that houses you, your co workers, all the equipment, and the insurance that covers it all?

>fucking entitled

First make your own factory.
Second are you the only person there? Does the factory also have managers, advertisements, sellers who pays them?
What about your skill level? Can a machine do it faster? Can a Indian nigger do it for 1$?

Did you make it with your bare hands or with tools?
Are the tools yours or owned by the company?
Do the tools require a fuel source to work? Is that fuel free?

Op bad OP was too busy chasing his karl marx gib me dats to ignore these posts.

>18 dollars an hour to make tyres

You'll be automated out sooner rather than later

Can you describe the process to me? I could probably whip up a basic PLC/SCADA program right now.

think about this, how many poeple can and will do your job for less money

Because the R&D who designed that tire deserves more than you do.

The people who go out and find the best rubber for the price need to be paid.

The drivers who deliver the tires need to be paid.

The advertising firm needs to be paid.

The janitor who cleans the factory needs to be paid.

The dude who maintains the machinery you use to build that tire needs to be paid.

The CEO and board of directors who direct the company need to be paid.

Accounting needs to be paid.

The dude who negotiates deals with vendors needs to be paid.

You're getting a decent chunk OP.

these people are correct.

You are not paid what you are worth. You are more often paid roughly a dollar more than the next guy in line offering to do the job about equally well.

You're only worth the $18.

I think the real question is how is the tire machine not paid $65 an hour but you are? That machine does all the work. #UnfairWages #RubberUnequality

I'd call you a jew but they don't work with their hands. Please kill yourself you dumb nigger.

also 90%+ of businesses go under, so that Founder deserves to make 9$ to offset the fact that 9 times out of 10 he loses his $1 investment (silly numbers but u get the point)

Because your employer paid the overhead on the factory, the materials, and likely, the creation of the company. Risk has a high monetary value, and he's making money off of that risk. If the factory you work at didn't exist, your labor would be worth $0.

Furthermore, there isn't just "management." There's an advertising agency being paid to promote your product so that people will actually buy it and thus pay your wages. There's a team of marketers reaching out to retailers to try to expand the scope of where the tires you make are sold, thus increasing profits and giving you more job security.

If you want to make your own factory, buy your own raw materials, and make $75 per tire selling tires that make $10 to make, go right ahead. But my guess is, after all of the trouble of starting the company, buying the space, setting up deals with people to actually buy your product, et cetera, you're not going to have the time to also make the tires. So you can just hire some fuckwit to do it for you, and pay him 28% of the profits, while you manage your company.

>Why am I only getting paid $18?

Easy question. You get paid $18 an hour because you DECIDED to work for your employer for $18 an hour (unless you are his slave being forced against your will to work for him).

If you want to get paid more either ask for a raise or find other work.

As far as unions go, by all means if you want to form a union, go for it. As long as force isn't being used you have the right to do what ever you want.

>$18 dollars an hour
>well off

kek
18$ an hour is Africa tier wage.

>I make tires
Be honest OP, you operate that ONE machine

Fuck off capitalist faggot, I make $3 per hour

I would make my own factory, but I don't have the $3 million required to open one. Somehow, through a series of luck, inheritance, some hard work, some people have $3 million. They open factories and somehow have a right to mooch off my work.

I am not a communist. I just don't think it's fair for someone to have a right to mooch off others just because they started with more money at the beginning.

I do appreciate these responses and I am reading them.

So OP, do you have hundreds of thousands of dollars to start a tire manufacturing business? No? That's why you only get $18/h.

How do you know overhead is $5 per tire if you are the one making the fucking tires and not running the operation?

Besides, there's more to overhead than simply the stuff on the surface. You have to have a manager to keep you retards in line, you have to have someone to keep track of things like accounting and supply chain management.

There has to be people that work in other capacities to ensure these tires get made and shipped on a timely basis and other people need to make sure they order the correct amount of supplies, etc.

I'm more fucking surprised that you actually make $18 an hour making tires without being part of a union.

You know why you're not getting the 65 dollars? Because you're an idiot, and don't deserve it . How do I know you're stupid, which is why you don't understand your scenario?
> $65 dollars
>$
>dollars
>used $ and dollars in the same sentence

its all about brand recognition. security officers make about 10/hour, but the company they work for makes about 35. plumbers are paid abour 25/hour, but the company they work for makes about 65/hour. why dont plumbers and security guards just apply without the middle man? because their reputation can not be rated, they are just lone wolves. dont know a thing about them. the reason your tires sell in the first place is because the name branded in them is known. if you want to make more, make a company and advertise

$65? Think harder. I'm a business owner.

>Corporate tax
>Corporate insurance
>Compliance fees

Just to name a few default costs that further reduce "profit"

Also. From $18 to $75 is an insane jump. Don't you realize that tires don't go from factory > store.

It goes factory > distributor > store

How does your $65 profit sound now?

Hey, OP, you're onto something!

Of course, your scenario only works if the factory and all apparatus used to produce the final good are provided in equal parts by the workers of that facility.

That is extremely unlikely to happen.

Sure is convenient to ignore all the other costs aside from material and labour, but it is intellectually dishonest at worst, and somewhat funny ignorance at best.

Without complete systematic revolution, what you'd need is for a collection of many, many workers toiling under the current system for a couple decades and saving every goddamn penny they can in order to start a completely worker-owned operation, in which each worker puts forward the exact same (and considerable!) amount of resources to build or secure the factory, and all necessary administrative/advertising/legal/sales/etcetcetc functions.

Good luck, friend!

you do realize management is there to ensure that you are in fact making those tires, right? they aren't leaching off your work. they are responsible for you and all the other workers, making it a higher-responsibility, higher-pay job. your fuck ups would be less costly than the managers fuck ups. if the manager is fucking up, that affects everyone under him. a manager is pretty replaceable but not as replaceable as someone who does the asinine labor.

you're missing the cost of management and R&D and transport and taxes and...

THEY HAVE THREE MILLION BECAUSE THEY PAY YOU $18 PER HOUR OH MY FUCK COMMIE BRAINS

Aren't you mooching off of this guys investment to start the company that you are working at that enabled you to make $18 an hour.

Had he not taken the risk you would have no job and would have to start you own business, which you claim to not have the money to do.

If you don't like your pay, get a different job.

Or better yet, start your own company and hire some wagecucks like yourself.

HONEST QUESTION FOR YOU (I WILL MAKE IT AS SIMPLE AS POSSIBLE):

IF YOU GET PAID MORE, LETS SAY 65

HOW WILL THE WHOLE SYSTEM THAT ALLOWS YOU TO GET PAID IN THE FIRST PLACE REMAIN IN EXISTENCE?

HOW WILL THE COMPANY YOU WORK FOR CONTINUE TO EXIST?

Because your employer needs to pay your boss and your boss's boss and his boss and it goes on. Aside from that, you're expendable, you're lucky to make 18, that's really not bad, depending where you're at.

$18 an hour is good enough in certain areas of the US. Obviously far away from the major cities and hubs. Rent and other expenses can be pretty damn cheap in some places.

really easy
75-10=65 profit
us average sales tax (9%) = 6.75
35% corp tax rate = 22.75
fica tax = 1.35
paid vacation = 2/hr (approx)
65-6.75-22.75-1.35-2=32 bucks /hour
what future investments, r and d, machines? for all thesething a company only has 14 bucks an hour

Why communism can never work : The post.

Overhead costs. The company you work for is probably still paying off equipment from years ago.

if you wanted more money you should have negotiated better when discussing your contract with your employer :^)

>WAHH IT DOESN'T MATTER I DON'T CARE JUST GIBBIE MOAR FUCK WHITE PEOPLE

lmao what a fucking baby OP is.

First off, you agreed to do it

Why not quit, and buy some rubber, rent the necessary equipment, and make your own tires and sell them for 75$ and make that $65 you "deserve?" Or better yet sell it for 50$ so you outcompete your former employer, you're still making much more money than before. Or even better yet you can do this with a group of your friends. Just like Marx said that the "Proletariat have nothing to lose but their chains," nothing is stopping you from taking your own initiative. Or really, is there something that's stopping you from doing this that forces you to rely on your employer?

Because you can easily quit your job right now and do so, and your employer can easily find another person to replace you.

>That's not a real job, it's just leeching off my work
Millenials, ladies and gentlemen.

Seize the means of production.

Seize it. Now.

A bright future free of capitalist middlemen awaits us.

Because you're an idiot. You're forgetting several costs:
>shipping
>equipment maintenance
>janitorial work
>clerical and sales work
>taxes
>insurance
>L&I
>unemployment insurance
>employee benefits
>anything else I may have forgotten

In what fucking world do you think you live in that you feel you deserve 100% of the profit from the use of a machine that you don't own, anyhow?

Tell you what, since your grasp on business is so firm and knowledgeable, maybe you should start your own tire factory and see how you make out?

Then quit, I'd kill to make that much money.

OP you're correct.
Start your own biz.
It's what I did.

hey man if its so bad, just take out a loan and start your own fucking tire factory and make your own clients and contract and run the risk of defaulting once obamacare hits and after you pay maternity leave for fucking spics fucking left and right rucking faggot.

LOL

nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Denmark/United-States/Cost-of-living

a 1.4 liter volkswagen golf is FORTY TWO GRAND!!?>!!?

what fucking bureaucrat wrote the tax code? go ahead and "brag" some more pferdy

why did you agree to work for 18 dollars an hour?

I'd find another job if you're unsatisfied. It took me 9 years (from 18 to 27) to earn what you're at now. Imagine me complaing about my district manager currently making $400k a year while I'm earning my measly $100k. Why shouldn't I earn $400k? I'm doing all the grunt work. Wtf man.

I wish I was paid like that, Im a chemist working for the national oil company in México and I get paid 6.4 dlls/hour

I think if we form a union and we are able to get $55 of that $65, I would be happy. A ten dollar profit is much better than what government bonds pay and I think the business owner should be happy with that considering he does nothing. Basically, we workers are giving $10 to him in charity.

What do you mean by this exactly? How would I seize it? By forming a union first, right? Genuinely asking.

These fucking economic retards come in here with that same question every time and we fucking have to educate them every fucking time. Why are people this stupid?

Yes because where you work has no electricity right? Because your work doesn't have running water?

When people call customer service you answer while making tires right? The tires drive themselves to the tire shops. How do your tires even get in the tire shops in the first place? Why would anyone buy your tires over the next brand's tires? Oh wait there's marketing and sales. And when a customer dies in a wreck and the family tries to sue your tire company, you stop making tires and go to court right? Because you're the fucking lawyer too!

Yeah and you're too stupid to pay for insurance so when your tire factory burns down you have nothing.

>durrrr I make da tires, I should get everything!! Why do I even need a company with tools and equipment. I should be the owner and get all the profits!!

Who's stopping you from opening your own tire factory and competing? Yet you begged for a job at this company at a set rate and you wonder why YOU don't make all the profits. Fuck off you retard.

>1 pair of jeans costs $143 in denmark

Who would buy your expensive products? Someone who made cheaper products would rape you in sells

Why do you need 3 million when all you need is raw materials, yourself and bammm a fucking whole company because you claim you are the whole company?

Here's an idea, take out a loan and start smaller. You mean you don't want to risk the little money you have and risk your business failing to compete? Welcome to the real world.

>I make one tire per hour.

Fake. You deserve nothing if that's how fast you produce.

OP is obviously a troll.

Op complains about salary.

Tire factory either moves to Mexico
or installs robot machines
or installs Mexican robots.

Dude... he was referring to Karl Marx. Communism is a foolish ideology that has never worked. Unions can get you more money but they come with their own problems.

And like I said before, if you haven't heard of a union for your line of work it probably doesn't exist and your company probably has a policy against them (yes they can do this).

A union could bump you up to around $25 or maybe even 30 but that cost would be passed along to the consumer, yada yada yada. A bunch of other issues too. Unions don't work for free either.

You have to look at the big picture instead of focusing on your little view of the operation. For example a relative of mine worked at a cigarette factory operating a machine that cranked out roughly 800k cigs an hour. That's roughly $200k of cigarettes at retail value. He made about $35 an hour after working there for over 30 years and he was part of a union.

Would it make sense for him to make over $100k an hour just because he ran the machine that produced the product worth $200k?

You didn't do shit... the business turned raw materials and your labor into profit for the business... your labor is just one line item, which can be done by anyone, Mexicans, Chinese, and soon robots...
your labor wasn't worth $65. Your labor was worth $18. The business has other costs... business had to invest capital in building the factory, installing the equipment, paying for electricity, paying for the lot the factory is on, paying taxes and fees to get factory approved by local government, and paying for regulatory requirements... business probably had to borrow money to build the factory, and needs to pay back the loans, or business had investors who need to be paid back... business has a know how, marketing connections, and ongoing relationships with suppliers and customers...
businesses take risk. not all business ventures are successful. many fail. The business assumes the risk and rewards, while labor gets paid regardless of how large or small the profit is... labor may still be paid even at period of a down cycles when a business may operate at a deficit...
Try taking your labor outside of the business and see how far it gets you...

BS. The costs covered by sales are by far more than these. Tires are low margin products because they are standardized, high competition products.

The firm probably makes 3-4 dollars of operating income per every tire. Shut the fuck up pleb.

Go ask the accountancy or line controllers.

I'm making $100k a year. My mortgage is $750 per month on a $200k home. 6% sales tax here. Feels pretty fuckin good man. I'm going to buy land soon.

Itt: people getting TRIGGERED when they realize how much capitalism cucks them then desperately scrambling for reasons to justify it

kek

How much does your job pay in unemployment, injury insurance, and taxes?

How much is shipping said tire?

How much does it cost to bring materials to your tire plant?

Right. Its 5 dollars. Have a fucking sage you fucking retarded baiter