>Not a Mary Sue
>More heroic than Rey
>Did more for the cause than beat on a severely wounded guy who just got done with another fight
>No fucked up facial proportions, cute as a bug in fact
>Better back story than being another lame chosen one
Why did Disney choose Rey over her?
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Is she, dare I say it, /ourgirl/?
cause she is a souless husk of a character also shes dead
hairy?
Rogue One is better than Force Awakens but that's not saying much.
>Not a Mary Sue
Says who? We never see her training or backstory either, same as Rey.
>More heroic than Rey
More of a bitch than Rey. Both had to rely on others several times and that's what shitty heroes have to do.
>Did more for the cause than beat on a severely wounded guy who just got done with another fight
Sure, I guess. Fighting a villain is cooler than sending an email, however.
>No fucked up facial proportions, cute as a bug in fact
Both of them are typical "10/10 in Bongland" trash that will age like milk.
>Better back story than being another lame chosen one
They have almost the same backstory, and the differences that make Jyn's "better" are never shown and only briefly mentioned.
>No fucked up facial proportions, cute as a bug in fact
she looks like she was punched twelve times in the face
All Star Wars is garbage this bitch is wooden as fuck. Can you stop watching star wars game of thrones and rick and morty.
She's in a shitty movie
Because her movie was bad
Better than Rey. But that's not much of an accomplishment.
Maybe you should get punched twelve times so you can finally get laid.
How much of a pleb am I if I don't agree with all this 'mary sue' nonsense, rey was charismatic.
>We never see her training or backstory either,
Wasn't she under the care of the Forest Whitaker guy for a while who was the leader of some militia?
That's told, but not shown.
It's also stated that he apparently put her back in the bunker wherein he found her at some point and they never saw each other again until the movie's span of time. But the time frame for that abandonment is never detailed.
None of which is used effectively to convey anything meaningful about her character. All you're really given is that she's troubled and with the law. Then throughout the movie she's a stonefaced blank cunt, who sometimes does completely contradictory things like save a child in the middle of a gunfight.
Yes very, huge bush and she doesn't shave her pits or butthole
The stupid bitch could barely move her face because her hideous wrinkles would be too prominent.
I don't think she's a mary sue. Bit quick on the jedi powers though but perhaps there's a reason for that.
>Is literally, unironically a whitewash of a EU character
Its okay if us Libs do it
JJ Abrams please leave
I think it's weird how TFA made it so the main trio from the OT had miserable lives and never even really accomplished much but RO is seen as the dark one.
She was charismatic AS HELL.
>forced scene of her beating up people whilst men look on like DAMN Rogue One fights like THAT?
But you're right she wasn't nearly as bad as Rey in the same way that being shat on by two people isn't as bad as being shat on by five people
Go back faggot
>Be a shitty portmanteau of a videogame protaganist
>Jan Ors > Jyn Erso
>White-washing the cutest asian woman in Star Wars
>Dark Forces > Rogue One
>Completely dropping Katarn
>Sprinkling bits and pieces of Dark Forces lore across Disney canon
Where were you when you realized Nu Canon is just the EU rearranged.
>Both had to rely on others several times and that's what shitty heroes have to do
Are you literally retarded?
I won't pretend that I remember her. But dropping Katarn was a mistake.
The Mary Sue crap is justified if she has a good backstory. If they do nothing with it she's a terrible character.
You're arguing that a hero who can do everything on their own without the need of assistance isn't objectively better than one that needs a team for backup?
You're arguing against inarguable efficiency.
Katarn is the Alpha Male of Rebellion/New Republic.
Can't have that
You are a baby. Luke had to rely on others through the entire series. Fuck off to Marvel.
Kyle is a shitty character that only works as MC of a game. He would be terrible in a movie and people would scream Mary Sue even more.
In the book Saw Gerrera trained her on an island which mercenaries would come and go.
She'd spar with them and had target practice on trooper armor.
This went for years til Saw abandoned her on a mission, which Jyn mentions when they talk.
Jan was one of the best spies in the Alliance and New Republic. She's also a crack pilot up there with the likes of Wedge Antilles. She was essentially Kyle's intel officer and main form of close air support during missions. Kyle would pound the ground while Jan would secure the skies/space and feed Kyle info on his current objective or any other pertinent intel that crops up.
When did I ever mention Luke?
Don't project.
And Luke both defeated and redeemed his father without the help of anyone else, so maybe you shouldn't bring him up.
Regardless, it was a joke, but you took it seriously even though you're wrong either way.
Not in the movie, doesn't matter. If you want to get into that shit, lets talk about how Gerrera was a fucking jedi with a lightsaber or whatever in Rebels who probably could've been extremely useful on the Rogue One mission, but instead decided to confront a giant explosion for no reason.
There is no reason. She's a sue and it will never be explained why shes so great.
wait, there's a character named Jan Ors in the Dark Forces vidya game, and then Disney created a character named Jyn Erso? And nobody protested?
Kyle appeared in plenty of novels. He was essentially, from a power level standpoint, the Mace Windu of the New Republic. He became the Jedi Battlemaster and held the title of best swordsman of the New Republic. BUT his power in The Force was still no match for Luke's.
Essentially he's batman to Luke's superman.
The force shouldn't be explained, it's fucking magic.
Harry Potter can do magic really fast, too, no one gives a shit about that.
You fuckers hate the prequels yet you let the shit introduced in those movies color your reaction to the new ones. If you pretend that shit never happened (like everyone making TFA did), the force is still just bullshit that can solve various plot problems.
>rey was charismatic
This.JJ had to undermine their accomplishments to make MaRey Sue seem more heroic and amazing. Also so that the first order can make any logical sense existing, but he still fucked it up.
I agree, I liked her character a lot better than Rey's. I liked Rogue One a lot better than TFA, I wish the subject matter had been something else than another death star story, though.
>You fuckers hate the prequels yet you let the shit introduced in those movies color your reaction to the new ones.
Here is why that is
Prequels were written by Lucas
Sequels are written by committee by Disney
One was written by the man who created the series, and is therefore the final say in how things work.
Vs.
The Eternal Mouse inserting old EU and fan fiction tier stories into an established universe
Live how you want.
I don't like shitty movies, though.
The force in the OT was a deus ex machina.
The force in the new trilogy works in the same exact way.
Doesn't bother me.
I remember a bit. I mostly remember Kyle's story from Dark Forces 2 onwards though.
The prequels fucking suck and the force is a shitty crutch bad writers like Abrams use. Did you realize that Luke never used the force until the end of ANH and even then all he could do was slightly push a moving projectile down a hole? He could barely grab a lightsaber sized object by the time ESB started. Rey on the other had can mind trick people and forcs pull objects like its nothing. Why are you so asshurt when I point out your favorite movie's flaws?
Fat nerd btfo
I'm indifferent as to whether it gets explained or not. I'll forgive it if she turns to the dark and joins Smoke. That will leave Kylo to join the Resistance and then go through a redemption arc in Ep. 9. But that won't happen because Disney has already made Ep. 8 a remake of Empire.
Plenty of fans of the Dark Forces / Jedi Knight series complained. Hell, when they first announced a Star Wars movie covering the theft of the DS plans I was ecstatic thinking they were going to do a Dark Forces movie. When I found out it wasn't I figured, what the hell I might give it a shot. Then when I found out that the MC's name was Jyn fucking Erso, well that was the last straw for me. The way Disney is handling the films and tv on top of Electronic Arts having exclusive rights to produce ALL Star Wars games for 10 years. I've all but given up on the franchise.
Even the OT had a natural progression for becoming proficient with The Force. It took Luke 3 films to finally become skilled enough to challenge Vader. Hell he spent nearly the entire first film getting shit on for being a know-it-all, snot nosed punk. It wasn't until the bridge scene on the DS where he finally began to grow as a character and take his destiny into his own hands. Up until that point he was just along for the ride. Even then he lost a fucking hand by challenging someone he wasn't ready for. Rey was the complete opposite. There's been no natural progression / introduction of her skills outside of her acrobatics and salvaging. In her first fucking outing she fixes the Falcon (a notoriously finicky, extremely customized ship), flies it through the dead superstructure of a star destroyer, enables cheat codes for Level 3 force powers, escapes imprisonment all on her own, and defeats a Dark Jedi Adept. She was literally perfect in every way with her only flaw being so headstrong, which constantly get's reinforced because she literally doesn't fail.
>all he could do was slightly push a moving projectile down a hole?
If you're thinking of it in those terms, you'd need to consider the force and speed of the ion missle or whatever the fuck it was compared to a stationary object like a lightsaber in the snow, making the missile thing more impressive.
However, I think of it more as a ethereal knowledge of precisely when he would've needed to fire the missile. He wouldn't need to use the force at all to fire the thing, the x-wing can do that just fine. He turns of the targeting computer because he can see in his mind's eye when and where to fire, not control the missile with the force.
But anyways, even that is a more mental thing, possibly involving premonition or clairvoyance when compared to moving a physical, stationary object which I would assume is easier.
The force is also shown to be based around when a character most needs it to work, and Rey was in more perilous situations wherein the force would help than Luke was. The force wouldn't really be able to shut down the trash compactor in the Death Star, for example, but was useful during the trench run, or during the training with the blast shield down.
Rey was in situations wherein she needed to use a mind trick and telepathy, and so she could. Luke also did this in later films, but had the plot required it in the first movie, he would've been able to do it then, as well.
>age like milk
Felicity Jones is over 33 and looks good without make up, Daisy Ridley is 25 and looks like a weird Alien.
>Luke never used the force until the end of ANH and even then all he could do was slightly push a moving projectile down a hole
isnt it implied that he has used the force before, to shoot the wamp rats or how it's called, but without knowing. also ben was around meditating so Luke cannot notice his force
this is stealing intellectual property or something
If you use the prequel's force logic, rey used the force every time she hopped around inside wrecked star ships and had to fight other scavengers, because she was pretty good with her dumb staff thing.
Just like how Anakin was a pro-tier pod racer and mechanic because of the force.
I think the force only explained his reflexes. Not his mechanical talent.
Silly user, they're easter eggs and references ;)
Why are you guys arguing about the Force when Jyn doesn't even use it?
it's only a reference when you present a proper citation
otherwise it's maybe like sampling in hiphop
I like TFA, but I must give this user right, if you take away the big picture every single Star Wars Movie until then works as a stand alone movie, even the shitty ones Episode I and II, but TFA is too much of an "We tease future movies" film, the Rey Character in itself is the worst part of TFA, not worst in the sense of "annoying" like Bings was, worst in the sense that she was a bland pattern who happens to be good at everything, if you don't give the audience at least a guess why she is so good at it, it's bad writing.
I believe TLJ will be the way better movie since they will make her an actual character, but right now, TFA is not a bad movie, but a movie with a bad lead.
But Qui-Gon explains that the force effects everything all the time, regardless of who you are or what you're doing.
And his mechanical expertise is considered extraordinary by Watto, a junk dealer who would presumably be well experience with mechanics.
Rogue One is basically a pro war propaganda movie, probably made with support by the US army.
>Just like how Anakin was a pro-tier pod racer and mechanic because of the force.
Pod racer sure, but mechanical talent and intellect are not enhanced too much by the force. At most you'll be able to sense what part is failing and why, at worst you'll get a feeling that something is about to break.
If this is true then congratulations on making me dislike TPM just a tiny bit more.
Yoda said it too in the original trilogy
What I mean by this is intellect and aptitude are more determined by the individual in question and not so much their inherent proficiency with the force.
Best scene in the entire series coming through.
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But just like Luke knowing exactly when to fire the torpedo implies a mystical foreknowledge or limited spacial omniscience of the trench, would this not also apply to knowledge of complex mechanical problems or wholesale creation of things like droids?
The argument can be made either way with the evidence provided in the movies. Meaning if this case were in a court of law, a precedent might be set to ban force-sensitive people from normal schools and testing because they may or may not be able to guess correct answers 100% of the time due to the force, rather than true knowledge or academic talent.
Anakin certainly behaves and speaks like a normal retarded child, as stupid as any other, even though he's also an amazing technician and pod racer.
>everyone died horribly at the end
>the Rebels are also shown as murders and killers (first scene of Cassian: he shoots an informant in the back to pay himself time)
>non of the characters is referred as good, grey at best
>not even once it shows that the empire is the pure evil and the rebels are the pure good
>Darth Vader massacres in a horror style scene Rebels that screams like scared little children
>somehow this is war propaganda
Hey I don't like it any more than you do, user. Just presenting the facts. Rogue One, in my opinion, would've been far better and grander if they made it a Dark Forces movie, possibly trilogy. Show how all the cloak and dagger stuff Kyle and Jan had to go through and how it affected the character's chances of success in the OT.
>But just like Luke knowing exactly when to fire the torpedo implies a mystical foreknowledge or limited spacial omniscience of the trench, would this not also apply to knowledge of complex mechanical problems or wholesale creation of things like droids?
I still feel like that's more of an individual aptitude thing. Luke grew up on the moisture farm as well as messing around in his T-16 and landspeeder, and Anakin grew up working in a junk / parts store tinkering with droids and pod-racers. Both of them grew up being 'mechanics' of some sort. If the Force was able to grant someone the technical know-how to fix / make anything then there shouldn't have been Jedi like Obi-Wan or Quinlan Vos, who are pretty mechanically inept compared to Luke or Anakin.
Had Obi-Wan grown up in a similar environment, though, would he not have also become some kind of technical whiz?
This is all only tangentially related to my initial assertion that the force is total bullshit that just does whatever the plot needs, but this discussion would certainly create reasonable doubt, even if you didn't agree with my point.
That point, of course, being that since the force has no real rules or structure, it doesn't really matter that Rey can just do whatever the fuck she needs to.
Ergo, vis a vis, is she still a Mary Sue when the force itself is the true Mary Sue?
She is nothing but a piece to be moved by others user. The rebels her father the empire. She never breaks free to do what she wants.
Not a lead character.
They should have kept poe. Shes not a mary sue but she had too much to do in the film it felt weird.
Poe could have been the pilot and they could have been a little less subtle about her light saber style was from learning to swing that pole she had in the desert.
Problem solved. Also Poe/Finn was the most entertaining on screen. They have something interesting on screen.
If Disney has any brains they'll turn those two into a thematic recurrence on Han Solo and Lando Calissian. Or something close. Everyone loves a good rogue.
>Had Obi-Wan grown up in a similar environment, though, would he not have also become some kind of technical whiz?
Possibly, that's true of most every sentient in Star Wars though and real life. For a bit of argumentative anecdotal evidence though; I grew up with parents who worked in the Church and the other worked in wine/spirits distribution. I don't remember the last time I read my bible, and I could not tell you what wine to pair with your steak if my life depended on it. But I digress, the Force doesn't magically make a person smarter. That is still up to the person in question. The Force does make training in a skill easier though, due to Force adepts not needing to rest as often and usually having a higher level of focus than those who cannot control The Force, not to mention the physical/telekinetic abilities that could render many conventional tools redundant.
On a purely intellectual level Force users are no more intelligent than similar, non Force sensitive, specimen from their respective species.The in-universe test for this would be a Force sensitive given an intellectual, mechanical, whatever, kind of test under the supervision of other Force sensitives, with others there to suppress the subject's connection to the Force to guarantee no cheating is taking place.
>>That point, of course, being that since the force has no real rules or structure
That it does though. I'm running out of space though so I'll try to be to the point.
>To wield effectively takes years of practice
>Untrained and unknown, it works through you more like an enhanced fight or flight response. With little effect on intellectual growth since you're usually not in danger when you think and reflect. Outliers being those who are especially passionate, determined, calm, and/or collected
>Dark Side is quicker but corrupts its user. Light Side is slower yet more powerful
>Only the weak-willed can be tricked by mind tricks
>Abilities are physical or suggestive in nature
>tfw dark troopers are now death troopers
>tfw kyle is now a mexican
>tfw jan ors is a britbong with basically the same name
Fucking end it.
>back story
>muh dad is a baddy but not so much
OP don't you have some school homeworks to do?
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I liked Rogue One just for those Empire aesthetics
I saw it on Netflix and watched it this weekend.
I actually thought it was a lot better than Nigger & Jedi daughter
>>tfw jan ors is a britbong with basically the same name
>Not in the movie, doesn't matter. If you want to get into that shit, lets talk about how Gerrera was a fucking jedi with a lightsaber or whatever in Rebels who probably could've been extremely useful on the Rogue One mission, but instead decided to confront a giant explosion for no reason.
Saw was never a Jedi. Learn your canon, loser.
Rey is a Mary Sue because she is instantly liked, trusted and put on a pedestal by everyone she meets.
Han Solo wants her on his crew and trusts her enough to work on the Falcon. Chewbacca watches over her and rips off Unkar's arm to protect her, who also wants her for inexplicable reasons. Maz is willing to give her a lightsaber, and not just any lightsaber, but the Legacy lightsaber of the series. Finn loves her and his sole motivation in rescuing her is that he loves her. The major villains of the movie want her. Princess Leia hugs her and not Chewbacca when Han Solo dies, and personally tells her that the Force is with her. She inherits the Millennium Falcon, Chewbacca, and R2D2 when one of the three most beloved characters in the franchise is killed off. The primary villain of the movie, Kylo Ren, obsesses over her when she is his prisoner and is the first person in the movie to take his mask off to. Absolutely every single thing is handed to her and her competence and personality are never questioned in any way, shape or form by anyone in the movie.
This is what makes a Mary Sue. Not the fact that she has all of these amazing powers and abilities without even trying or without having been trained, but the fact that absolutely everyone she meets instantly likes and trusts her. This is the true mark of a Mary Sue, and it is due to an inability of a writer to create a compelling character. A Mary Sue will always be a stand-in for how the writer wants the fictional characters to react to them personally.
None of this can be refuted. She is a Mary Sue, and it isn't because she has powers and is a woman. It's because she is horribly written and to defend her is to defend bad writing.
I CLAPPED
Ira was the hero we deserved