Who is the most powerful person in this scene in terms of the force?

Who is the most powerful person in this scene in terms of the force?

yeah

Palpatine, Luke, Vader

In this scene? Palpatine.

Luke is the strongest.

darth vader

however, palpatine was more skilled in using it in that particular moment and luke eventually surpassed vaders level due to never being impaired

How can you say that when Sheev would've killed him if not for Vader?

Who cares? Power levels and fighting are not what this scene is about.

>Potential
Luke. He is canon the strongest Jedi who ever lived

>Raw Ability
Vader had he not killed Padme and mindfucked himself into halving his output

It's funny but in terms of "power" Sheev is the weakest in the room.

Fighting was very important though user. It was only through that battle with Vader that Luke fully realized his Jedi self and learned exactly how far, and how much control he could have and posess.

>Luke. He is canon the strongest Jedi who ever lived
Yes, but he wasn't at that level yet. In this scene Sheev/Palpatine is the strongest.

That's why I listed Luke under potential, not actual power. That still goes to Vader as his power is only held back by himself and at the end, for all of Sheev's abilities he couldn't use any of them to protect himself from Vader's raw willpower and might.

The whole point of this scene is that Palpatine is the strongest. Luke and Vader both know that the only way either one of them can destroy Palpatine is if they team up. The entire point of the whole sequence is that Luke wants Vader to come back to the good side so that they can defeat Palpatine together and Vader wants Luke to join the dark side to so that they can defeat Palpatine together.

The force literally comes from your meat. Vader at this point is a middle aged man, ate raw by darkside and is literally half the man he was. Coupled with loss of his wife and family, is forever mindfucked. Palpy knew this.

It's hard to reach your potential when your entire life is built on suffering.

Probably Palpatine with Luke as a relatively close second, though in the absence of the now-noncanon EU material (which seems pretty explicit about Palpatine having been the strongest during that scene and Luke having the greatest potential), I only really say that based on how the characters are presented in the context of RotJ. Luke was handling Vader pretty well throughout their duel, so I feel pretty confident in saying that he was the stronger of the two. However, they were both in the same league in the sense that they were using the same swordfighting and telekinesis that we'd seen throughout the trilogy.

Palpatine, though, regarded Luke's lightsaber as a toy for children, and the one time he got off his ass and did something in all three movies, it was a display of destructive power completely unlike anything we'd seen the Force do up until that point. I hate to parrot the Plinkett reviews, but the impression I got initially watching that scene was that the lightning was one of a huge number of crazy things Sheev could do with the Force. The prequels did sort of muck that up by having Palpatine use a lightsaber and making Force lightning just some normal "dark Jedi" skill, but I think it's fair to say that RotJ was trying to show that Palpatine was a whole different beast from the Force users we'd been shown so far.

This scene was the culmination of Luke's journey to Jedi Knight, and considering how badly he got thrashed by his dad in Empire, I think it's interesting to think about exactly how far he'd come.

Darth Sneed

>The force literally comes from your meat.
Then how do women use the force?

>The force literally comes from your meat

No it dosn't. As Yoda puts it "we are illuminus beings not this crude matter" and some of the books go into detail about his limitations are all mental. He could become stronger than Anakin but that's too heavily linked to Padme, he could build a better suit but he hates himself too much to do that. His life is suffering but his physical body has nothing to do with his force abilities.

He didn't just get thrashed bad, Vader knowingly took it easy on him.

And mentioning plinkett undermines any constructive thought you might have, so post that at your own risk. Especially considering their recent reviews show just how hypocritical and unfounded their opinions are, it basically invalidates majority of what they've said in past if you base it on their recent actions.

Go rewatch their reviews for TFA/RO1

Luminya directly states capacity for force use literally comes from amount of flesh you have to channel the energy. There is a mental component but capacity is linked to the body.

By using the rest of their meat. And considering the thrawn/force tree nonsense we're about to get in the new movie, they're going to link it to an idiotic cycle that grounds the force in dumbest fluff ever.

...

Then we have contradicting information on our hands then user.

>By using the rest of their meat
I was making a dick joke. "Beat your meat"=masturbation.


>Luminya directly states capacity for force use literally comes from amount of flesh you have to channel the energy.
So in theory, if a massive fat creature like a Hutt could use the force they'd be the strongest in the whole galaxy?

I think quotes from a major character in the movies trump a random line said by one of the EU's least-interesting characters in a book

I agree that their TFA and RO1 reviews sucked and showed a degree of hypocrisy, but I really don't see how that invalidates any reasonable points they've made in the past. In this case, I still saw Palpatine as a "mysterious space wizard" with a thousand horrible tricks up his sleeve long before I watched the prequel reviews. That's just sort of how I read the scene.

probably the jewish producers.

This mary sue

>Vitiate summoned all the remaining Sith Lords to Nathema. Around 8,000 Sith Lords answered his call, but when they approached his palace, he took over the minds of all 8,000 and forced them to participate in the most complex ceremony of Sith magic ever performed, a 10-day Sith ritual that froze the entire planet with Dark Side sorcery. After ten days, the ritual ended with the complete obliteration of the planet’s surface and the death of the Sith Lords, as well as every living thing on Nathema. Vitiate absorbed the life force from the fallen Sith Lords and the entire planet, becoming immortal and gaining unimaginable power.

Vitiate, now known by the title His Glorious Majesty, Slayer of Izax, Immortal Master and Protector of Zakuul or the Emperor, began rebuilding the new Sith Empire, spending most of his time experimenting with the Dark Side as he continued to gain even more power. When his enormous Dark Side energy began to take a toll on his body, he perfected the art of transferring his consciousness between bodies to sustain his life. He could transfer portions of his consciousness into infants, creating the Children of the Emperor and making them extensions of his own will. The very atmosphere of the planet of Dromund Kaas was warped by the Emperor’s experiments, filling the sky with lightning and terrible rainstorms constantly. When the Dark Council conspired to kill him, the Emperor killed them all with a single blow. He easily bested the mighty Darth Revan with a single Force blast, and even Darth Plagueis the Wise envied his knowledge of the Dark Side.

In theory but that is why Lucas created the indicator bacteria in the first place as a way to gauge and end these pointless power level contest.

They linked it to bloodlines in the OT(Centering it around skywalker clan.) Then they did prequel bacteria.

That has always been true. The mysticism side of the force has always had it's defenders. While grounded folks have been there all along.

Which makes me sad we'll never see Jacen's force learning journey after the vong war. He spent five years learning from the many other force user groups out there. It could have really given disney a chance to be creative.

Instead we'll never see any of them. Dathimor could have been put in the new Han solo movie since he won that planet in a fucking card game. We could have gotten the night sisters, which could have tied back into maul etc.

Instead we'll get more retreads and reboots and padding of same shit we already know.

Literally this. Powerlevels are for weebs.

Sidious would wipe the floor with both of them if they werent protected by plot armor.

Well Luke is most major character besides his dad and he directly stated in ROTJ that it was a bloodline, so does that trump yoda?

"My father has it, I have it, My SISTER has it" etc

>Especially considering their recent reviews show just how hypocritical and unfounded their opinions are, it basically invalidates majority of what they've said in past if you base it on their recent actions.

Just because RLM has gone back on something doesn't mean a person still cannot hold that viewpoint.

If you think parroting someone else's review opinion can, as you said, UNDERMINE an argument, then that's not entirely correct. If you parrot someone else's opinion because it rings true to you then that's okay.

I would argue that parroting an opinion, and then when the supplier of that opinion changes it to something else, you change yours along with him is a lot more detrimental that just agreeing with someone.

Originally it was clearly suppose to have been Palpatine. Star Wars was a fantasy movie and he was the evil Overlord at the end of the adventure, he say's himself that he is above the use of light sabers and shows that by shooting out lightning.

They retconned it and made Darth Vader more powerful because he was more popular.

because it shows their opinion isn't objective and is based on political climate they're in which undermines anything that has come out of their mouths and creates skepticism about what they've said before and why.

We're going to end up agreeing to disagree but the point needs to be made that hypocrisy from someone that you need to trust their word to create validity is poison.

It's like finding out a reviewer is being paid under the table. No difference between that and hypocrisy.

He is a mary sue/gary stu, he is just pre-emperor in a different time. He jobs to everyone, Jedi knight, his son, Revan eventually.

He loses at least 5 times and only thing he manages to pull off is his version of the Clone wars.

Which ends up working against him.

>They retconned it and made Darth Vader more powerful because he was more popular.
That never happened. Even in the EU, Sheev was considered the most powerful Sith to ever live.

Anakin had most possible potential is what people get caught up in but reality is because of Luke's long career, he basically becomes a force god, battling other force god's.

Palpatine will always be strongest canon sith though.

They turned luke into a failure after playing him up for 30 years in books as second coming. It's kind of beautiful.

He isn't*

I think people misunderstand the impact of the RLM reviews. It's that people just thought they were funny and starting parroting them to be contrarian.

The RLM PT reviews were so impact because they confimred what a lot of people already thought. It turned years of opinions that people held about the prequels into 3 easy to absorb youtube reviews.

Plus, for a lot of us who didn't like the PT, but maybe never had the proper vocabulary, have something that we could show people.

tl;dr

It's only parroting if you don't believe in the opinion.

Lucas said Palpatine first, way way back, then Luke in modern times.

Prequelfags fuck off.

>Sheev
>Sheev
>Sheev
>Sheev's

We need a holocaust for everybody who calls The Emperor "Sheev"
You should all be fucking ashamed of your faggottry

>hypocrisy from someone that you need to trust their word to create validity is poison.

Not that same user, but I disagree with this. Just because someone is a hypocrite it doesn't mean that their opinion isn't valid. If someone says something that rings true to you and then they go back on it and you stay the same, them being a hypocrite doesn't affect you and your ideas.

>It's that people just thought they were funny and starting parroting them to be contrarian.

*It isn't that people.

It's treason then.

>We need a holocaust for everybody who calls The Emperor "Sheev"
>You should all be fucking ashamed of your faggottry

Can't sleaze the sheev. Emperor Sheevatine is best character.

>He is canon the strongest Jedi who ever lived

In the new canon? Since when was this stated?

>I was making a dick joke. "Beat your meat"=masturbation.

Women have extra internal meat. They can't access it as easily as males can but it is just as functional.

'Just because someone is a hypocrite it doesn't mean that their opinion isn't valid.' You're a liar. Nobody trusts hypocrites for that very fucking reason. Hypocrisy undermines integrity of your word.

Lmao what?
Luke is up there but its not the strongest Jedi, at least not strongest in the force.

There's Revan, Vodo siosk Baas, Galen Marek and I'm not even counting guys like fucking Exar Kun due to them being dark jedi afterwards.

>You're a liar. Nobody trusts hypocrites for that very fucking reason. Hypocrisy undermines integrity of your word.

So if someone says something that rings true to you and you do the reseach and realize that this is something you can get behind, but then the originator of that idea turns out to be a hypocrite, that means you have to change your opinion too?

You fucking plebs trigger me everytime with your Star Wars fanfiction.

Secondly EUcucks /out/

If you mean at that exact moment in time / scene:

It goes Sheev undoubtedly first, then Luke or Vader is arguable. Vader is obviously a much more disciplined and skilled force user than Luke, but his abilities are being hampered by his immense personal conflict.

Vader however shoots up to #1 when he ends the conflict and decides to kill the Emperor and save Luke.

If you mean in the overall canon, it goes Vader/Sheev-Luke.

Although we haven't yet seen what TFA Luke is capable of.

Darth Vader. He can't bring himself to kill his son so he throws the fight, then gets up and single handedly kills the emperor bringing balance to the force

He's not in that scene retard.

This is correct.
Vader is the chosen one, and midichlorians or not, he is the most powerful Force user ever. After that it's a toss up between Luke and Palpatine. In their primes Luke would be better than Palpatine, but Luke is still fairly new and Palpatine is fairly old, so it's anybody's game.

>i watch anime and must apply power levels to everything i see
sad, to be honest

Anakin lost his midichlorians when his limbs were chopped off so he's no longer top dog.
Luke ain't shit.
I'd go with Sheev.

To clarify the Vader/Sheev on the second ranking.

Vader is more innately powerful in the force, and is the most powerful force "warrior" (although much of this is due to non-force attributes, I'd still wager his mastery is second to none in battle.)

On the other hand, Palpatine is also supremely talented and is very likely more proficient in powers of a more mystical nature, precognition and what have you.

replying to

Palpatine and Vader have the benefit of being trained by people who knew and understood how to manipulate the force. Both the Sith and Jedi had century long institutional knowledge to impart onto both. Luke on the other hand has a single session with Obi-Wan during a lightspeed jump then a few months with Yoda in the swamps. Vader has the most potential but is hobbled by injury and mental state, leaving him the weakest of the trio, he's mainly limited to Telekinesis and Swordplay. Palpatine has the full training and mental state required to embody a Sith Lord even in his advanced age. He is the strongest because he has full access to his abilities and knows his limits. Luke on the other hand is extremely powerful but has no formal training. He is effectively self taught on almost every skill which makes him wild and unpredictable. This gives him an advantage because he is willing to dabble in stuff normal Jedi would have viewed has heretical. Though he gets outright blindsided because he has no idea what the Sith are and has no idea what they're capable of.

tl;dr powerlevels are bullshit.

You mean, Vader used to be the most powerful, his injuries put at like 80 percent of palpantine's power. when unijured, anakin would be like double of palpatine's force potential.

>still regarding a sentence in one interview from Lucas as canon rather than the information we've received in-universe

stop

not him but please elaborate

>single handedly
Don't worry, I spotted it

Vader had no conflict in the fight with Luke, only a moment of weakness before, and the torture of Luke tipped him over the edge

Face it when Luke went dark side he fucking bodied vader

Sheeve>Luke>Vader

>Vader throws the fight

Stop this meme

the Vader is 80% of Sheev and living biomass equates to force power comes from a couple sentences Lucas said once in an interview.

The Emperor was obviously supposed to be ridiculously powerful on a level we haven't seen before (except maybe for Yoda) so canonically he is the most powerful here. The prequels introduced that whole "Anakin is the most powerful Force user ever" bullshit that never actually gets backed up. He was completely equalled by Obi-wan which makes Obi-wan joint top ahead of Palpatine and Yoda. The prequels fucked up a lot of shit with its stupid power level autism. The OT was never about how "powerful" the people were, it was a story of a son redeeming his father and a rebellion overthrowing an oppressive regime.

Wow that's fucking retarded. When Lucas says shit like that it really makes me wonder how such a dumbass could have created such a great universe in the first place.

vader only did force lighting when empowered by crystal, otherwise palpatine and his force storm would curbstomp vader, in terms of force abilities

KEK, this is what I mean when I say you plebs need to gtfo with your fanfiction.

Just completely ignore
-Vader's complete and utter fixation on his son
-"I know there is good in you"
-Vader avoiding Luke's pleas to join him rather than flatly refusing him
-"It is too late for me, son"
-"then my father is truly dead" Vader afterwards begins to meditate in the force, but what is obviously being inferred is his contemplation and struggle
-"I feel the good in you, the conflict" "you couldn't bring yourself to kill me before and I don't believe you'll destroy me now."

He's definitely conflicted and not operating at maximum dark side efficiency you turbopleb

hop into the trash with the rest of the EU brah

obi wan was on the defensive during their duel on mustafar, only won due to a mistake by anakin, obi wan barely equaled anakin in lightsaber dueling, not force abilities

in terms of force abilities
Anakin > palpatine > yoda > Vader > mace windu > obi wan

in terms of dueling
vader > anakin > mace windu > palpatine > yoda > obi wan

There's literally a part in the duel where they both Force Push at the same time, hold for a few seconds then both go flying back. If Anakin was really Jesus Child Foretold Force Savior then he would have blasted Obi-wan straight back.

And Obi-wan was not "on the defensive". He was there to kill Anakin, which he believed he succeeded in doing.

Normie feels left out cause they dont say his name in his precious movies.

Luke because the light side is inherently stronger because the dark side is bad

anyone who disagrees is a nazi

Only one hutt so far has been force sensitive. Dosent mean his midi count is low

The emporer