Is reading the bible degenerate?

Should true Catholics not read the Bible? Before the Protestants destroyed Holy Mother Church no one but clergy read it. Isn't it logical to allow only those who studied and trained in Cannon Law to tell us the true word of Christ?

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This really made me think. That could have prevented most fedora tippers who left just because they found some stupid thing they misinterpreted.

>who studied and trained in Cannon Law to tell us the true word of Christ?

when did jesus ever say to do that

No the catholic church is what caused the dark ages . There is only one way to read the bible ,one truth

Priests spend years studying the scriptures and learning it's true meaning before being allowed to spread the Gospel. If I read it at home, how do I know I'm not misconstruing 90% of it? Should I stop? If I read a textbook on astrophysics and can't comprehend half of it, am I truely learning anything?

He may not have, but we learn from our elders and their experiences. Picking up a book as nuanced and hyperbolic as the Bible and trying to understand it is difficult. How do I know I'm not interpreting it wrong without instruction?

How do you know there is only one way? By your reading of it? How do I know we both aren't reading it incorrectly?

Every Christian should read the Bible.

Letting a clergy do it for you is not acceptable. They may have added some human traditions (they did) instead of the Word of God.

Jesus clearly warned against these religious leaders.

Make the Truth your own.

>Cannon
It's CANON you fucking idiot. Do you really need a foreigner to teach you your own language?

>How do you know there is only one way?

Lol because god ment it that way, there is one reality, one truth . suffer a eternity in hell is either real or it is not, jesus is either the son of god and god, or he is not god , and just the son of god . One truth its simple

But here's what I'm not getting Nipanon, the Church is an institution that has been around for over 1,000 years. Bishops, priests, and cardinals have been debating the meaning of the scriptures since then. How can I, in my 23 years of existence possibly hope to garner the same, or greater amount of understanding of it than them, passing their knowledge on through generations? It's like claiming I know more about Newtonian physics than them simply because I read about it once

Their perceptions, although educated, may be further from the truth than your own.

I know it's hard for you papacy worshippers to understand, but these "truths" are just given to you by corruptible men.

>How do I know we both aren't reading it incorrectly?

And you dont know that ,there are so many denominations and everyone thinks he knows the truth . One thing i do know you wont find it in the roman catholic satanic church

Apologies Bulgar. It's 0500 here and haven't gone to bed yet, I'm slightly off grammatically. Nice dubs though

>make the Truth your own

and that is why Protestantism is the greatest cancer of all time.

If there teaching was always wrong , and they burned people on the stake who told the truth , they could have go on a 10.000 years without the reformation

Reading in general is degenerate, embrace oral tradition/

Are the truths given to you by non "Papists" any less corruptible?

>Isn't it logical to allow only those who studied and trained in Cannon Law to tell us the true word of Christ?

these people have been created on the same day as you
the same laws apply for them and you
if they should read it, so should you
dont shield yourself from knowledge about anything

Reading is ok, studying is better. Combine it with prayer, proper fasting and good deeds, now we are talking.
This is the problem. Evangelicals emphasise reading bible too much, and neglect other aspects. Catholics are somewhat better, but as one, we neglect fasting, while orthodox appear to me as balanced, but as one orthodox priest said to me, social conscience is underdeveloped (charity).

Russbro, I highly respect the Orthodox Church. I met with the priest at my local Russian Church and had a long discussion with him. A lot of what he said made sense to me, and I thought about converting, but I remembered the Nicean Creed that we acknowledge only one baptism for the forgiveness of sins, so I don't think I should be re baptized Orthodox

Well, if you are baptised, just join them, technically, you don't need conversion, since you already believe in Christ. Maybe you will receive some other sacraments, but that's it.

But why do you think they're wrong?

Because when i found god there were a hundreds of denominations to pick from , and just one book to pick from , after reading it and understanding it i still dont know what denomination has the most truth , but the catholics are the most way of , and will face judgement for this on the last day.

It's a tough choice for me my friend. On one hand, I've been raised Catholic my entire life, and I really love the Universal Church, but ever since reading about Vatican II, and the history of the early Church, it seems that in today's world Orthodoxy is the closest thing we have to Nicene Christianity

But why? I believe in the Credo. We both accept Christ as savior, and besides Orthodoxy, Catholicism has the closest claim to being the One True Church. Christ said Peter, Bishop of Rome, was the rock upon which he would build his church.

John 2:21But Jesus was speaking about the temple of His body.

>Jesus spoke against counterfit religion and "Temples"

Vatican is a house of Sin and we should not bow to Mortal Men.

nobody read it because 99% of people were illiterate. even a lot of the rural pastoral class . with good reason too because thier wern't many books because everthing had to be hand copied. by the time of the prinitng press the church was so corrupt they had to try to claim it was bad to read it because they were so far from the message.

Totally messed up with the pic.

So Have this.
youtube.com/watch?v=quTXwTjgfc0
>"The Talmud confirms Christ's words."

Leviticus
youtube.com/watch?v=sryNbaDJRlI

Deuteronomy
youtube.com/watch?v=VzuYt-C5y2g

Believe in the message of Jesus, and take from it as much and what exactly you wish.
Allowing other Men to tell you what to think and what to feel is the beginning of the end.
Every single denomination of Christianity has strayed from his lessons.

45While all the people were listening, Jesus said to his disciples, 46“Beware of the teachers of the law. They like to walk around in flowing robes and love to be greeted with respect in the marketplaces and have the most important seats in the synagogues and the places of honor at banquets. 47They devour widows’ houses and for a show make lengthy prayers. These men will be punished most severely.”
....
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also see:
The Parable of the Tenants

9He went on to tell the people this parable: “A man planted a vineyard, rented it to some farmers and went away for a long time. 10At harvest time he sent a servant to the tenants so they would give him some of the fruit of the vineyard. But the tenants beat him and sent him away empty-handed. 11He sent another servant, but that one also they beat and treated shamefully and sent away empty-handed. 12He sent still a third, and they wounded him and threw him out.

13“Then the owner of the vineyard said, ‘What shall I do? I will send my son, whom I love; perhaps they will respect him.’

14“But when the tenants saw him, they talked the matter over. ‘This is the heir,’ they said. ‘Let’s kill him, and the inheritance will be ours.’ 15So they threw him out of the vineyard and killed him.

“What then will the owner of the vineyard do to them? 16He will come and kill those tenants and give the vineyard to others.”

When the people heard this, they said, “God forbid!”

17Jesus looked directly at them and asked, “Then what is the meaning of that which is written:

“‘The stone the builders rejected
has become the cornerstone’a ?
18Everyone who falls on that stone will be broken to pieces; anyone on whom it falls will be crushed.”

19The teachers of the law and the chief priests looked for a way to arrest him immediately, because they knew he had spoken this parable against them. But they were afraid of the people.

You mean there's only one "right" way of reading it. But there are still plenty of wrong interpretations that could be reached from a particular reading. Nobody's arguing about the content, it's just that our inherent human flaws often prevent us from clearly perceiving that content.

Has Science Buried God?
youtube.com/watch?v=J0UIbd0eLxw

No he was not see, thats what you get when you read things wrong , people become corrupt ,judas hanged himself, christ never wanted a church leader like a pope , peter was the least of faith and fucked up all the time,failed to walk on water , then he lied 3 times ,but he became the most of faith, that was his rock;peters faith, why would jesus even give him leader ship? it does not even make sense that jesus would give power to a man who can overthrow things like sabbath from saturday to sunday

But Christ appointed Peter as his Vicarius

John 21:16-17

If the Peter is Christ's Vicar, and all Popes are the continuation of his office, how can the Vatican be a house of sin?

I will be hones, since raise of ecumenism, and since both churches recognises validity and legacy of each other, so far that if Catholic priest would move into orthodox land, his priesthood would be recognised, and vice versa, i don't see it really as treason or anything. It is, in my opinion like changing job. While both churches discourages such switching (more or less for practical reasons), it is not forbidden.

"Take care of my sheep" and "Feed my sheep" can likewise be seen as helping the flock. It does not say that he is meant to lead the flock, only that he should help.

And how do you know that any of that is real? No circular reasoning please.

Because Christ knew he would acend to heaven, and someone had to continue preaching the Gospel. He chose Peter to do so because he proved himself the most human with his doubts, and the most faithful with his later actions. He embodies the theological virtues of Faith, Hope, and Charity, while proving that man is in fact fallible

Nice meme. Better doubles. If you ever say the words "Dark Ages" concerning the post-Roman restructure and growth of Europe around anyone who is actually educated you will be laughed at or ignored.

the Catholic church isn't even the oldest church. the arminain and a few others predate the Catholics from the days of the patriarchs

No, it has never been alive to begin with, science is only disproving/removing a story.

The problem is that we read it with catholic glasses , theire doctrine , when i started to read the bible i read it with my agnostic glasses, and epic beard man in the sky,when i became a believer i wore catholic doctrine glasses; ,you have a mortal soul you suffer for a eternity in hell , when you die your spirit direcly fucks of to heaven. after reading the bible i found out that most of it is not even in the bible.

It's so difficult to understand, for me at least. I understand your point, but at the same time "Take care of my sheep" can be seen as a command to take leadership. And that gets back to my original point that I think only trained clergy should read and spread the Gospels

And where did Jesus said that he gets to pass this vicariat unto others?

Religion = fantasy ≠ not reality
>implying that somehow having a religion in a certain way is """"" red pilled"""""

Also I want to thank everyone for their input. I was really expecting this to devolve into a shit fest, but I appreciate the honest, civil discussion here. Sup Forums legitimately surprises me sometimes

Reading it is not degenerate.

Taking what's written in it as absolute reality is, however.

In my opinion it's actually a pretty interesting read, but I don't take it seriously.

It's the basis of our entire church. A bishop is replaced by his successor. Be he in Rome, Antioch, Constantinople, or Atlanta, Georgia

First, i don't really get all this house of sin.
Second, many people misinterpret popes role in church. He is not some kind of God-Emperor, but replacement of peter (not Jesus). For instance, papal infallibly. People think that every word that pope says, is infallible. No, only when he speaks from the papal seat on matter of church as official documents, than this rule applies. All other talk, is only his opinion. And papal infallibility is, as far as i know, fairly rarely invoked.

The book is open to interpretation, user. The lions of the clergy will herd the sheep, and you'll just end up with the same structure supporting a different theme. Abdicating understanding to another is, in a word, cuckholdry.

Take responsibility for your faith, and lead yourself you dunce.

Pic relate: U rite now lol

even if peter was the leader of the apostles
how does that work then with a future pope ?
>Galatians 2:11-13King James Version (KJV)

11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.

12 For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.

13 And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation.


Peter showing his leader skills by not eating togheter with the gentiles

In Protestant countries more atheists, because Protestants know the Bible better.

So the god's blessing gets transmitted by being voted into office now?

>implying that you, personally, are so special that you can comprehend the infinity of the cosmos and know, undoubtedly, that there is no God.

Wew lad

I'm not abdicating any understanding, I simply thing critically analyzing the words of a 'professor' (priest) makes learning easier than trying to digest and analyze the whole book by yourself, if that makes sense

Yes. Exactly.

The idea that every man's interpretation is as valid as any other, the egalitarian cancer that started with Luther has or will be the death of not only Christianity but the West in general. For there to be order and unity, morals need to disseminate from a single central authority. The alternative is degeneration and chaos.

You know, just because you aren't smart enough to logically arrive at the conclusion that this god simply cannot exit, it doesn't mean that all the others must be as dumb as you.

But that's my entire argument Ivan. Just because you read the Bible doesn't mean you understand it. Better to let those trained in a seminary debate and digest the information, then spread it. If a bunch of Protestants read the Bible and can't comprehend it, then of course they'll be more likely to reject its teachings

Sola Scriptura. Jesus said adding or removing a single word from the scripture was heresy.

>implying that I stated that God, without a doubt, exists.

I'm not sure if God exists or not. I have faith that he does, but I won't be sure until I die. In my opinion, stating that you know beyond a doubt that God is simply a fantasy is as preposterous as saying that you are, in fact, God himself

Not to mention the other end of the spectrum, people construing retarded things from it like young-earth creationism. Protestantism is a plague.

'Sola Scriptura' has no scriptural basis.

This structure already exists in any protestant institution. Catholics don't have a monopoly on clergy, and the corrupting influence of holding real power over others infects the denomination to this day.

This is simply not true. The world saw the worst that could come out of the destruction of the (((earthly))), central moral authority already (anabaptists). Every god-fearing man that goes to church has the opportunity to have their views and interpretations of the text challenged and steered by the benevolent guiding hand of the clergy and congregation. That a "secular" authority be Christian should be enough.

Clergy aside, there are no Catholics who read the Bible.

True it was just a meme , but it did not help the darkages when the catholic church burned you at the stake when you told the truth .

Oh come on, smarter men than me have arrived at this exact same conclusion over 2000 years ago - imagine that, your god being BTFO before even appearing.
And no, you're just dumb.

Most Catholics I know who read the Bible either become Protestant or they are so indoctrinated into Catholicism that they make excuses for what they read because they are literally becoming members of the clergy and refuse to think their life is a lie.

>Current year
>Still believing in ancient Jewish fairy tales

You don't. On one hand, this is why there are many Protestant denominations. On the other, this is why Catholicism seems to completely contradict itself every other century.

And 2,000 years ago, smarter men than me created Christianity. So what's your argument? Ad Hom notwithstanding

Please stop confusing shrewd with smart.

>Anno Domini 1 + 2015
>using current year as an argument

True its literally the last thing in the bible

Nothing May Be Added

>18For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: 19And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

>20He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

21The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen. {THE END.}

Still waiting for an argument

This. King James bible, cover to cover.

Fedora here. I have infinitely more respect for the average catholic since they at least try to reconcile the more fantasy elements of the bible with reality rather than outright deny reality in favor of "biblical truth" that protestants tend to do.

Even history books generally accepted as fact shouldn't be taken at face value, every writer has a bias.

That would be a fair criticism if the RCC stamped down on independent proselytes or expressions of piety in themselves. What Canon Law and hierarchy clamped down on was subverters who would say "the implication of this Biblical event or passage is this" and try and make their off-kilter "interpretation" the way people should judge the basic story through.

So the crux of the issue is that the Bible itself isn't harmful to read, the principle of "choose to interpret it however you like" is.

>every writer has a bias.

We christfags trust in the word of god and the word of god is writen by people under the influence of the holy spirit there for the bible has no bias because god has no bias

Go back to stomping crucifixes dikebro

No. That would have been bad. Pope Francis is evil and if we didn't have free access to scripture we would not know it.

KING
JAMES
VERSION

Even if you're an atheist you should read it.

>true meaning
>implying the words mean something else
>words mean whatever we wan them to say
whats the point of words even having any meaning if other people are going to continually re-interpret them, Dumpty?


>Every Christian should read the Bible.
It's

You remember in the OT when God was giving the instructions for the tabernacle to Moses? Remember how detailed that was?
I cant find anything like that for something as important as your church, friend. Nothing besides the few verses Catholicism likes to twist around and define themselves. You would think Jesus would clearly state, and have instructions for, such a church.
Perhaps you should read your bible. Besides, you dont think God wrote the bible for the average layman to read and understand? You think God wrote it for teams of, "highly trained" priests?
Sola scriptura, patron saints, the pope, and confession to a priest have biblical basis and are retarded