Redpill me on the falling birthrate, pol.
One of the biggest arguments here from the pro-rapefugees fraction is that we NEED immigration to "keep the economy going" because the native population is going down.
Is that horseshit that is coming from the big companies and banks who want a steady supply of wageslaves that take out shitty loans? Or would our living standard actually get worse?
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There you go OP
keep economy goig: false, we need skilled workers, low level jobs are going to be automized to an high degree pretty soon.
They dont even want us to mix, i think, they know that the immigrants will live in theyr own areas and communities ( which is better than the opposite i guess)
Why do they do this? No idea, maybe one day they will civil war.
Addendum: native population is going down because wages are getting worse, taxes are insane and we are in a recession, in the USA they are still marrying young and making a fuckload of babies because they have less fiscal pressure.
Protip: move to East Europe, they have relatively little debt, zero tolerance on third world scum, and their economies are growing like crazy
A falling birthrate is an argument against immigration. A 70 IQ subsaharan Muslim is not an equivalent replacement for a 100 IQ secular German.
Also it could be that merkel, in fact,wants the right wing to rise and that everything ws part of her plan. I mean seriously, did anyone buy her stupid "we can do this!" bullshit?
The keyword you are missing is economic GROWTH. We don't need immigration to keep our economy going, we need workers to keep it growing and to remain the economic powerhouse in Europe. With a population decline you will also see a decline in productivity, so it is not far fetched to assume that your economy won't actually grow - but that doesn't mean it will collapse. What's also important to keep in mind is that population and productivity don't decline proportionally (as in productivity will decline much slower). Importing "workers" could theoretically help economic growth (on paper), but as pointed out above, more workers won't proportionally cause an increase in productivity either. Also, the economic growth, as the state likes to measure it, will usually be presented as GDP. One factor that can increase the GDP is government spending, so the numbers can be misleading and I can assure you, they will be used to justify the numbers of immigrants we have accepted. "Look, GDP increased by x% ! (but let's ignore that this was because of the hundreds of millions the gov has spent on refugees). Here's the most important thing though, that I was getting at when I talked about the correlation between population decline and productivity: Because productivity declines at a much slower rate, the GDP per capita actually increases, while in the opposite case (importing millions of people) might in some way increase the GDP but decrease the GDP per capita.
That's a nice theory, but it's still a theory.
Also, due to more and more automation the economy can keep running on less people.
>hurr our population is low, instead of forcing the inhabitants to breed more lets just make them extinct instead what a brilliant idea.
Saying we need immigration because of falling birthrates is like saying any endangered or at risk animal needs an invasive species to move in on its niche.
yes, but the white race isn't worth saving, that's an established fact even many of our politicians agree with.
Not really a theory
Most of the developed world overspent and are going through these choices:
1. Drop from the world stage and preserve natives, but government services will also take a hit
2. Bring in more potential debt by inflation population, government services can continue or even increase
Guess who wins elections?
>"keep the economy going"
Is code for "keep the votes coming" and "keep taxes high."
Skilled migrants are usually a benefit, unskilled migrants make economic problems due to population significantly worse.
Leftists don't care as long as they vote blue.
Immigrants are the only ones who will do the jobs you lazy neets won't do because you spend all day on a Malaysian image board.
>but the white race isn't worth saving,
Basically this. FUCK WHITE PEOPLE
>One of the biggest arguments here from the pro-rapefugees fraction is that we NEED immigration
>because the native population is going down.
Those people should be hanged for promoting white genocide, when your population goes down, its even worse to bring in other people to mix with them. Genocide, nothing less, against international law, illegal and punishable by death in every country in the world.
Automation, effectiveness and lower demand will make immigration useless in the future.
>population higher than it has ever been in human history
>"WE NEED TO STOP THE BIRTHRATE FROM FALLING, CONSTANT GROWTH, HUMAN CAPITAL, MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY OY FUCKING VEY"
Just shut the fuck up already, the global population is finally starting to level off and kikes are freaking out because it means less economic growth long-term.
We do not need immigrants.
Once labor supply dries up, people can demand higher wages. With those higher wages, they can afford more children.
this argument is not going to work in the real world you'd be put on a blacklist and ostracized by your peers.
Turth does not matter anymore.
You don't need immigration, all you need is to fuck more.
You mean the left over whites that never felt the motivation to leave the homeland in search of a better life in America?
It's a load of bullshit. Japan's birthrate has been bouncing back since 2005. There's no reason that can't happen elsewhere.
Well the biggest anti thesis to importing mudshits is your old axis ally Japan. The Japanese just became more efficient and are probably going to make life span for the average Japanese person higher.
It depends.
Low killed and cheap labor makes us more competitive in the short run, because it's pretty hard to compete with China or India as far as manufacturing goes, when they make their products in child slaves sweatshops. This however does not take into account tht many low skill job are already being automated and many more will be by 2050, thus making all these people useless.
As for birthrates it's mostly bullshit. Here in Italy we have 50% youth unemployment and a decreasing labor partecipation rate. We already have too many workers compared to our job market, we don't need more people.
The ideal solution would be to issue 3 years work permits to shitskins and thn send them home, while at the same time invest in serious natality policies for our own birthrates which need to be increased or we will go extinct
If birthrates are falling and that is bad fix what is causing it. Honestly though with automation coming its probably ok mostly.
The big problem is the financial sector and entitlements. People who depend their jobs on constant economic growth never want to see a population drop. Population growth = economic growth we have not existed in modern times when we were not growing.
Second is entitlements which are a massive pyramid scheme. Theyll all break if the pop drops.
In an increasingly mechanized world, less people is beneficial. Just not for the tax roll.
Maybe governments should stop allowing offshoring
Instead of spending money on refugees by giving them welfare, you should've spent it on your population in order to get them to have more kids.
*hypothesis
Falling birth rate is an open borders meme.
How many unemployed do you have?
Does less people really pose a problem when so many can't find jobs?
There's never a time anyone ever needs immigration. Population count rises and falls, unless it falls to the point incest becomes inevitable, you don't NEED immigration to compensate birthrate. Do you need immigration for work? Not unless you import someone who provides something UNIQUE to the country that no native can provide.
Immigration is the biggest problem on Earth, on par with the international Jew. Consider the following: America—before they revamped their immigration laws to accept third world welfare queens with dangerous ideologies—was getting the best of the best, from scientists to entrepreneurs with big dreams, now imagine this goes on for awhile, so America's getting the best of the best from various countries—who stays behind? If the people who benefit society are emigrating to a foreign country, what's left? The ones that didn't make it. Opening your country up to the smart ones means you're stealing them from their homelands, people escaping a failing country are further dooming the country they're fleeing from. Immigration in this sense is only a benefit to the host country. Now look at Germany, you're taking in economic "refugees" who aren't even from fucking Syria, they have nothing to give your country other than crime, tension, rape and jihād. They don't assimilate, they don't even like Germany, they come from Middle Eastern countries with—at best—an average IQ of 85, Germany's school curriculum is too advanced for them, they'll drop out and add to the crime pool. This immigration benefits neither the host nor their homeland.
tl;dr - immigration is inherently bad.
The world is already over populated and so the population NEEDS to go down. When an advanced country starts to decline in population, that is completely natural. It just means that the numbers are stabilising.
this.
right wing parties here are blamed for hating the working man but they want pressure on the economy to make companies try to attract workers. thats their endgame and it will never work when immigrants pour in.
>shitskins work
Oh my
Arguing immigrants are good/bad is missing the point.
The COUNTRY and GOVERNMENT exists to service its people, its nation.
These immigrants can never in a million years be part of any german nation.
>The world is already over populated
no it isn't.
africa is, asia is. the world isn't.
well, in theory you need big population to sustain economic growth
however that presumes immigrants are equal to natives as to satisfy economy needs
they are not - generally they are a net loss even if we presume they will integrate
they are not even going to do that - we will have separatists within a generation or two
so all in all it's more beneficial to cope with low birth rates than to import enemies
Well, that should have happened like 2 generations ago, just like the pension reform. Decades ago our politicians were well aware of both problems, population decline and the lack of money for future pensions, yet nothing was done about it. It was too late to give people enough incentive to have more kids, because it will take like 25 years from now for these kids to pay taxes. That's exactly why they figured they'd need to import people that may pay taxes in 5 years or so. (wishful thinking, of course). They fucked up and sat on their lazy asses too long until they didn't see any other way. The sad thing is, the people they are importing will not work and will not produce enough tax revenue to pay for the pensions, so their "solution" to a problem will just make it more disastrous.
How's that missing the point when I stated assimilation was impossible by IQ & ideology alone?
>DO WE NEED IMMIGRATION?
absolutely not
you need to rid yourselves of the communists once again and establish policies that promote domestic births
but thats haaaaaard
so you wont
and you wont be around in 50 years
cant say I'm surprised or even saddened when the eternal German is finally put down.
That's the theory. In practice it doesn't happen
ahmeds won't replace german workforce
they won't now they won't in 30 years
a german is happy to work 40-50 hours a week pay 60% go for a beer in city center and come back to play eurotrucksimulator.
ahemd is happy to "gibsmedat" , is happy to help you convert and pray 8 times a day , is less incliend to work hard and genetically more aggresive
GDP for german/white nation is high everybody works and is payed well everybody want to live there.
Crime for german/white nation is low , most white countries have really low crime rate.
Proof that once france/germany/sweeden took in shitloads of niggers , crime went up.
GDP for nigger countries are low , most of them will work as hard , most of them work as much as they are required and go home to rape and chop someone heads off happily.
Crime in nigger countries is higher , it's easier to go by eye for and eye , law of the land , sharia law. Where you envoke the ability to just kill whom ever you want without a trial.
Niggers do not see reason , they only see themselfs
Whites see everybody else whom they relay to build and create.
wilds Wolfs are not germans sheppards and germans sheppards are not wild wolfs
This human ignorace from the left beleiving that all humans are equl is bullshit.
So this imigration bullshit comes down to... Do you believe for one second that ahmed and mohammed will work has hard as Hanz? Will he want to pay as much as Hanz ? Will he stop relaying on "gibsmedat"?
i am part of the problem with the declining birth rate in the west, I don't want a kid, or even a girlfriend, it's too much hassle for too little reward and I don't have that kind of money anyway
I guess I just dont really like the modern women, their personality and interests generally annoy me and I don't like kids all that much
you need taxpayers to support the welfare state. if you dont make new taxpayers then you either cut welfare or import foreign taxpayers.
Illiterate peasants aren't going to contribute anything to a first world nation. The BILLIONS being spent on them would have been better spent on encouraging the native Germans to breed, which many won't do because the growing costs of living.
This idea is easy debunked, and actually agreed upon by economists.
The immigrant population increase supply side for labor, driving down wages for low skilled work. Immigrants have lower expectations, so they happily take these lower jobs. That further drives down wages, and eventually those jobs become low wage jobs even though for centuries the native population was doing them just fine. The other argument is that they increase demand for consumption, which would offset this, but I find that to be ridiculous and not many people other than sociologists actually believe that.
Even when given financial encouragement, how many more children will be born per year, and how long will it take them to pay taxes? It's simply too late for that, because the increase in birth rate won't be significant enough and the children will only be future tax payers in 18-25 years.
For those reading this, reminder user is talking % population here
Your hardworking black muslim family neighbour is nothing
marriage rates are dropping because the economy is bad.
a college student needs at least a few years to have enough income to sustain a family, until then he may decide he still can't provide for a family
I want to move to Poland or some Baltic shit... But I find it hard to believe those places don't suck ass, and what about NATO/Russia fuckery?
but instead of cutting spending to compensate for the reduced tax revenue politicans resort to deficit spending and mass immigration in a desperate attempt to keep the ship afloat. this is the end game for all democratic states.
yep, spot on
You know the interesting thing about the economy? It changes to fit the circumstances.
No, you don't "need" to bus in shitskins.
The AfD proposed to give every family with 1 child 10k. A loan without interest. For the first child you have to pay 100% back. You get a second child, you only have to pay 50% back and for the 3 child only 25% and for the fourth, nothing.
So if you get 4 children you will 40k for free.
If you get 3 you get 30k and only have to pay back 7.5k. No interest.
>that is to expensive
We pay 5.3 billion this year alone on immigrant.
That is half a million kids and would increase the birth rate by 80% bringing it to 2.4 per women. That is more then enough.
We could solve the low birthrate. We just need a gov. that wants it as well.
That wasn't only deemed too expensive, it was also considered racist, because it was only meant for actual Germans.
The snake cant keep eating itself if we don't.
You have to add that german kids growing up in white families will no doubt be more productive in the long run compared to the migrant wellfare leeches that you are importing.
We need more white people getting married and having kids. That's all.
As beings become more intelligent they mate less and less.
Civil war when? We need to wipe the slate clean and start fresh.
Merkel was largely motivated to open the borders to correct the wrongs caused by you krauts in the Second World War.
"With her legacy in the balance, she has finally found an issue to fight for."
She just wants to get into the history books as mama merkel who saved all the refugees
Utterly retarded
>darkies pay off debt
U wot m8
Yeah I know. One of "The Linke" said it was "völkisch" I wanted to kil that whore.
Not only that, but also the likelyhood of them being criminals and the lack of tensions between cultures.
As we can clearly see from the graph, running out of people is a problem all countries face.
Count yourself lucky if people want to move to your country.
Too bad those who sought a better life ended up taking all the shit with them
I am VERY tempted to believe this since the american economy thought it could run on giving loans to poor people until all poor people defaulted on their debts, the debts that made up the bond market were worthless, and money just disappeared, causing the 2008 financial crisis, the closest the global economy came to collapsing.
capitalism only works if you market is expanding but as wealth distribution widens more people are forced into poverty. you cant sell poor people shit so your market cant expand. giving them loans instead of selling them things is the death throes of 20th century capitalism
nat soc is the way
It's bullshit.
Corporations just want the money.
Less populated countries need less people working.
The elite NEEDS immigration to replace the smart native population with dumb monkeys that will do anything they say.
Notice something?
No, we don't need immigration, what causes failure of birthrate is leftist propaganda that comes from education and the boob tube.
Notice anything in particular?
I handle several theories besides , which looks very likely as well.
1. Cheap and low-paid jobs: When the native culture reaches to a high level of education and sophistication, they'll demand higher paid jobs because they are able to perform well there. So they leave the immigrants the lower paid works because it'll still be comparatively a lot more money than they were used to earn in their native countries. Unstable jobs that can disappear over the day, because automation or changes in the outsourcing companies that grant those jobs to bigger companies (like cleaning services). We all know how that ends: a lot of dead mass depending on welfare when they can't (or they don't want to) find a job.
2. Elections and populism: We all know how immigrants love "Mama Merkel". If you grant these immigrants right to vote, they will elect politics that granted them asylum again. So, it's a simple and straightforward way to continue in power.
3. Falling birth rate: For me this is kind of an argumentative fallacy. There are lots of ways a country can pump their own native population to reproduce besides importing people, like displaying much more stable families in advertisement and mass media directed to middle class, and put taxes on condoms. But alas, we know whose hands is mass media on.
We all know -and I'm sure even they know- all this immigrant crisis is, besides a social time bomb that has long ago exploded, an economical time bomb. And what happens when a country has a growing debt? They ask money? From who? The international banking system. And we know whose hands is this on.
Immigrants are not capable of producing German children, they are only capable of producing Turkish, Arab and whatever their respective ethnicity children and as far as I know there is no shortage in those.
To get more German children, you need to get Germans to produce more children, and immigration to Germany does not help here at all, it makes things only worse.
>and what about NATO/Russia fuckery?
I can't really speak about that, who can? But Poland is actually really comfy if you are white. But also fuck of immigrant.
Let it happen. I can't wait.
>modern western men increasingly don't want to get married, don't want to have children and don't want women in their lives due to their feminism
>birthrates naturally decrease as a result
>let's import niggers to keep the tax pyramid scheme going!
(30 years pass)
>who could have predicted that the immigrants and their children would turn out to be a giant burden on the tax system!!
Can't we then also keep immigration in theory and not in practice?
You fuckers better get rid of Merkel
We don't need immigration to fix birth rates.
We need to lower the costs of child care and crush feminism, among other things.
This guy gets it
The Netherlands is.
We're like what, 5 times as small a country as yours and have 3 times as many people living here.
remember that we need more people here who are in need of food, water, housing, transport and money.
We also need to build more wind turbines to preserve the nature here!!!
Yes it would mean you would have less plastic doodads and other estrogenic pasty soma that makes you miserable.
Your economy shrinking is not a bad thing and is one of the first steps one must take to save the world, ones country, ones people and ones soul
Birth rate will not increase by importing tons of immigrant males anyway. It would increase by importing females or couples. That argument is simply invalid in the current immigration trend, please share it.
Sweden seems to do fine with migrants (:
Low birth rates are always because of education.
When the average civilized person in Europe has one or two kids it's because they're intelligent.
That's why blacks and beaners have fifty kids each.
birth rate is above replacement rate and automation is increasing
immigrants will equate to unemployment
...
...
Population of Italy doubled in the last century, we are not going extinct, just let the population decrease enough and then the birthrate will rise again and the population will stabilize.
There's going to be a lot of Africans who will need a new home on the European continent?
Birth rate low, import immigrates how the fuck did anyone think this is a good Idea..
its a meme to get darkies into white countries
Europe as a whole (not Norway) has a higher population density than Africa.
And as a whole the world is overpopulated, we live on borrowed time, burning irreplaceable fossil fuels.
But in 30 years there will be an additional one billion Africans
>We live on borrowed time, burning irreplaceable fossil fuels.
I'd be more concerned about water availability.
If we run out of fossil fuels, we instantly get back to 17th century, and all the surplus population will die because farms will be much less productive. At least I'm optimistic that much before, prices will rise to the point we'll be forced to find alternatives in time. And we'll do.
But if we run out of water, we all die. No contest.
7 billion people worldwide.
7 bleedin' billion. Do you think that is too little?
There is no reason at all whatsoever to have a constantly increasing population. The stagnation of total population characteristic for modern developed nations is a GOOD thing god fucking dammit. Only niggers breed like rabbits and guess what, they're struggling with famines and still breed so.