Why is it Captain Hydra so much better than Sam Wilson?

I mean, Captain Hydra is bascially Superior Spider-Man 2.0. How is it that watching Steve screw people over and making his keikalu plans never gets old?
But every time I read Sam Wilson's book it's always the same things again and again: Muh Race, Muh Fox News, Muh BLM, Muh Evil Cops, Muh shield. Shit, it's such a boring racebait comic that I'm surprised Larry Wilmore didn't write it.
Why is this?
Does Spencer put all his twitter political soapbox in Sam's book and thus make Steve's better? Does Spencer not know this?

He's not a nigger

because being black is actually not a character trait and should not be a reason to be chosen as a hero. plain and simple, he hasn't earned it. mind you i would not care for more black heroes , just give them their own wings to fly.

I miss Remender....

Damn Sup Forums is out in full force today.

>he hasn't earned it
>being Cap's sidekick and an avenger for decades is apparently not worth anything

Sam has been with Steve longer than Bucky has. If anyone deserves to be Cap while Steve is indisposed it's Sam.

Me too. While I liked Brubaker's run more, at least his SamCap actually had interesting things going on in ANCA.

I'm convinced Rick was gonna do HydraCap himself. Look at the issue were Sin tells Falcon he was just a plant thanks to the Skull using the Cosmic Cube waaaay back in the day.

bucky is and will always be BestCap

Not him, but I'd say he hasn't earned it in the sense that he was never all that interesting a character. Unless there's some great Falcon run I'm not familiar with.

Fuck you, the USAgent/Flag-Smasher arcs were golden.

>Muh Race, Muh Fox News, Muh BLM, Muh Evil Cops, Muh shield.

You know how I know you dont read comics? Cap has always tackled politics. One of the recent SamCap arcs was reminiscent of an 80s Cap arc.

This.

He was a real hero and a real human bean.

The first volume of SWCA was boring as fuck, though. Like, it was just straight up not good.
It got significantly better after Standoff, though, and the politics don't really bother me; I particularly like that Sam's not just hated because he's black, but because he decided to bring his politics into it rather than "staying above it".

>US Agent arc
>good

It was contrived garbage with no nuance.

I don't get this meme. When the characters tackled social problems in the past issues it wasn't that entertaining either. Only exception I can think of is X-Men.

...

With Sam, historically, they're too afraid to give him anything interesting because it makes him look bad, or do so in a hilariously retarded way because they want to make an asinine political point.

Simply being there and filling the suit isn't enough.

What's his top two or three stories? The only Falcon story that I can think of off the top of my head that's really his is the avengers thing where he's put on the avengers and then quits because he doesn't want to be an afirmative action token.

I thought that was leading up to some bizzare Snap Wilson thing again.

So is Tumblr

Not being a Sup Forumsack doesn't automatically make you tumblr. When will you kids grow up?

>One of the recent SamCap arcs was reminiscent of an 80s Cap arc.
this isnt a good thing

Yes it is. The 80s run was good.

nah

What's so bad about it?

He's not a real person. He can't "earn" anything.

Racist much?
Seriously, I can't believe you'd say a black person isn't a real person.
You need to return to your containment board.

there's like a year or two in the early 80s where there's a bunch of cool one offs but dematteis (except for the concluding arc of his run) and gru don't really make anything interesting and everything is really heavyhanded

>What's his top two or three stories?
What were Bucky's?

Bucky was dead between 45 and 04

But that's what it is. It's bait. This entire comic book is meant to piss white people off. That's why they're making it.
They won't provoke reactions and then come around and say, see we told you all whiteys are evil, we should chop their penises off. No, seriously.

The Winter Soldier arc.
Winter Kills
Death of Dreams

Exactly, what made him more deserving of the Captain America shield? Sam was actually part of Steve's stories for decades, saying that it doesn't make sense for him to take over the legacy is absurd.

Turns out that reading about how woke a character is can actually put people to sleep.

This "lol, white nerds sayz they dun want politics n comics, look at this 3 ezamples of politicz in comicz" meme should stop. It is true politics have been present in cómics since forever, but they were never on-the-nose. Yes, Nixon was implyed to be the corrupt member of the government, but never stated on-page. They at least had the decency to left it vague enough. Now you have characters blatantly telling you how wrong you are on your face if you think differently than the writter.

In the 30s and 40s Superman taught you that you shouldnt missuse your power and influence.
In 2010s Mockingbird teaches you that you are a mysoginist if you like more male superheroes than female ones.

It's not that Sam Wilson does not deserve to become Captain America, it's that Marvel writers don't make him Captain America because he deserves it but because he's black.
This whole comic is "Ha! Take that, whitey! Black people can become Captain America too!".
If Sam Wilson happened to be white and still having the same importance to Captain America's history, he would not be the new Captain America now, merely because he's white. So it's not, like I said, because Sam Wilson deserves it but because he's black.
If someone who actually cared about the comics themselves and not using them to further his liberal agenda, wrote a Captain America Sam Wilson, I'm sure people would embrace it. In some other age though, cause right now, there's no trust in Marvel anymore.
Comic readers aren't racists, see, otherwise they would have dropped comics a long time ago. But we do rage when we see our favorite comics sacrificed in the altar of identity politics.

>not being Sup Forums doesn't automatically make you tumblr
>but not being tumblr automatically makes you Sup Forums
i hate tumblr logic

"Grow up" sais the adult in a Captain America thread on Sup Forums

...

What exactly makes someone tumblr? I need to hear this Sup Forums logic.

>posts on Sup Forums

kill yourself.

>I have never taken another person's life

What were you doing in WW2 then?

It's the same thing as redneck jokes, but with Woke Twitter habits.
If you've ever started a statement with "I know some of you will call me an SJW for this" directed at no one in particular, you might be tumblr.
If you've ever unironically called a minority a "___bro" or "white male" as an insult, you might be tumblr.
If you ever donated hard cash to your existential enemies to show how virtuous you are, you might be tumblr.
If the only reason you read something is because the idea of someone, somewhere, possibly getting mad at you for it, you might be tumblr.

Selling war bonds. What else?

Personally I like SW more than SR. Sounds like it's just personal preference

i like when i use white male as a neutral descriptor and people yell at me

>What exactly makes someone tumblr?
Saying something that pisses the rampant Sup Forumslacks off.

Except THIS conversation is literally happening.

The comic would be "Ha! Take that, whitey! Black people can become Captain America too!" because everyone would say exactly what you are saying, "Captain America shouldn't be black"

Your only problem with Sam as Cap is that he's black. Just completely ignoring his decades of being at Cap's side.

>tfw I like SamCap (or at least the idea), but fucking hate Spencer's hatchet job writing.

>implying execution is important when there are racists who need to be told off by fictional characters
False dilemma, back to Sup Forums with you

When they shit their pants because someone happens to dislike a character who is not white. That's not Sup Forums logic, it's just a standard observation of tumblr types.

When you accuse anyone who doesn't like a minority character of being Sup Forums

I don't like it because they won't fucking let him be Captain America. How long has the #GiveBackTheShield arc been going? Why would you make "people are faggots and going NOT MUH CAP" an arc in the actual book?

This. Samcap is one of the few legacy characters that actually made sense and then all we got was a soapbox.
I'm not saying you can't have political content in comics, I'm saying the political content in SWCA is heavyhanded, ignorant and badly written.

Tumblr is basically made of porn.

So no they aren't.

Ewing should be the one to write Samcap

He did, and did an ok job.
I'd rather have seen where Remender's thread's were heading.

>yfw Sharon was the mole thanks to yet MORE Zola mindfuggery

Don't work so hard to imagine people as racists.

I would love the fuck out of a breathrough book for falcon. A Winter Soldier, a under the red hood, a Wally West flash run,, as sidekicks owning a new role. Or a Priest black panther class run. But this shit isn't it.

It's too bad that a very large amount of the industry feels as you do.

I think that part of it is flailing around trying to define what makes captain america in a Occupy Wall street era, and there hasn't been anything worthy yet.

No he really hasn't earned it, his role still wasn't fleshed out and hasn't made much of an impact as a hero hell I don't even know what his villains are supposed to be and cops are not his villains which seems to be the fucking god damn point of his books right now.

Captain America SHOULD be political. He has been since the 70's. He's the Green Arrow of Marvel.

If you disagree with his stances and are really that triggered by other opinions that you're unable to enjoy it, then just stop reading it because it's not for you.

I don't agree with most of the stuff in there but I like the story and the characters and the political slant still interests me because I like to have my beliefs challenged.

True. And since white people are evil, it makes sense that white Captain is evil now.

Sam's book feels like reading Spencer's cancerous twitter.
Steve's feels like a real book setting something big about to happen.
Still wish Bucky was Cap again tho.....

Because he's black and black people are worse than white people.

That's what you wanted to say, that's what you wanted to hear and that's what this entire thread is going to amount to. Can we just end it early?

I think OP is white trash. But he still thinks Ike will stop pandering to tumblr after Drumpf won.

The comic talks about THIS kind of threads, the comic mentions the fact that people can't stop complaining about his skin color. Maybe if people stopped talking about that and started to mention the decompressed writing, the CONSTANT continuity fuck ups, the inconsistent art... Then maybe Sup Forums would be less a shitty place.

>It is true politics have been present in cómics since forever, but they were never on-the-nose.
No, you just think they weren't because you weren't around when they were being released and the politics were relevant.

Read Fantastic Four, the Apartheid issues or the anti-communist first years.
Read Panther's Quest, a story that takes place in south africa during Apartheid.
Read Captain America, a comic about fighting nazis.
Comics politics have been on the nose since comics were created, you only complain because you don't agree with current marvel politics.

>Why would you make "people are faggots and going NOT MUH CAP" an arc in the actual book?
To be fair, a better writer than Spencer could probably have stopped it getting stale as quickly as it did.

Remender run was great.

Alternatively, Marvel's Truth, the miniseries about the first black Captain America, was really great. A 10/10 comic.

- Comic readers are racists but they don't drop comics because they're like meth addicts. That's what being a fanboy is about
- Marvel can't write for shit

Politics was unavoidable seeing how there was a reaction over the fact that there was a black captain America

>the comic mentions the fact that people can't stop complaining about his skin color
But that's the thing, user. Spencer does that not because people are complaining on the net, he does it because he's a hack writer. He makes white people the strawman bad guys because he thinks he's earning brownie points. Most people have already given up on the book and moved on to Steve's book or to DC. HE IS LITERALLY THE ONE WHO BRINGS UP SAM'S RACE EVERY FIVE SECONDS. He's the one who can't stop bring up race politics. He is the one who says all cops are evil. He is the one who can't stop bring up Trump or Fox News every single issue.


And then Spencer goes to twitter to whine about why DC rebirth is raping his book. The only way Marvel can get people to read this garbage is to give it away for free (which counts as a sell to diamond's shitty system).

Hell, if Spencer had made the Sam book actually fun and exciting (like Ms Marvel) more people on Sup Forums would probably like it. Instead, it's the Larry Wilmore show.

THANK GOD, Spencer wasn't in charge of the Captain America movies. He would manage to make it boring.

>like Ms Marvel
You mean PMandIF, Moon Girl, Ghost Rider, Uncanny Avengers, Ultimates or New Avengers?
Ms Marvel is a really shit book.

Unfortunately Sam fell into the minority character ghetto, where every thing has to be about his minority status. KSD's Captain Marvel was similar with it starting with her punching mysognistst and then going back in time to team up with an all female squadron in WWII.

It's a subset of the Galbrush Conundrum; if you're a straight white dude you can do anything in a story but for some reason if you're not, the thing that sets you apart has to be a key component part of your story.

in Sam's case, hes black, so that means fighting racists and an inordinate amount of street level crime fighting in inner city environs.

Well Moon Girl, Dr Voodo and Luke Cage are black characters starring in four marvel books (im not counting jessica jones because bendis) and their stories are NOT about their skin color. In fact, they're all pretty good.

1. Give it time
2. Luke Cage is very much about his race. In point of fact he got discussed rather heavily in a documentary on the subject a few years ago.

>Luke Cage is very much about his race
What's that? His "concept"? I dont give a fuck about "concepts", I'm talking about the actual contents of the comics they're starring. Cage is a parody of blaxploitation, but it's not about Luke being black. Every character, black or white, is a parody in that book. Is really well done. Power Man and Iron Fist is about Luke and Danny being buddies and dealing with shit. No mention of race politics about luke.

>Give it time
Not a real argument, that's just making shit up.

>is a parody of blaxploitation, but it's not about Luke being black

>Not a real argument, that's just making shit up.
What issue is Moon Girl even on? Miles didn't get it brought front and center for a couple years.

>>>is a parody of blaxploitation, but it's not about Luke being black
You said "the thing that sets you apart has to be a key component part of your story". "Cage" is a Blaxploitation book, but the "plot" is about Cage fighting animal people. His race is not part of the plot and is not mentioned. His exaggerated depiction is part of some jokes, but the book is not about his race.

>What issue is Moon Girl even on
13, but it's clearly going to be about her super-intelligence from now on. Also, Dr Voodoo has had years of comics and I never saw one about his race.

Because Cap being evil is new and different. Sam has been Cap for what, 2-3 years now? It's old.

>Moon Girl
>they're all pretty good

I absolutely agree that politics are fine in comics, but there's more diversity in Japanese Sumo wrestling and Nascar than there is political diversity in comics, particularly the big two. And it makes shit too predictable.

Show me one Nascar driver who isn't some boring ass generic white dude and that was your point never mind.

Sup Forums is the board of peace.

Danica Patrick

It is good.

....you win this round.

Making yours Marvel means picking shit?

...

What was the reaction to Steve passing the title to Sam? Honest question, I didn't keep up with the Remender run and only got around to reading it this summer.

Did Nick Spencer stop shoving politics in Captain Hydra?

The superheroes accepted him easy enough, the average citizen that he saves shouts out "Not my Captain America!", and rich, white, possibly Hydra conspirators start a TAKEBACKTHESHIELD hashtag and recruit USAgent to attack him in the streets.

No, I mean how did Sup Forums and other places react? I know how 616 reacted because I actually bothered to read the comic. I actually didn't care for Remender's Sam run, I felt it was written in a voice too similar to his Steve run when it needed to be different.

A better black captain america would of been isaisah bradley. Having cap be the old man mentor and have a yound kid he's teaching would of been better.

A shitstorm of Sup Forums butthurt for a solid year.

Bradley got a nasty response too, but back then the internet wasn't as ubiquitous as it is now so it wasn't as bad.

Was there ever a Superior version of a character that wasnt a tactical keikaku doori master?

I kinda want a Superior character that's stupider than his original was and handled most of his problems with brute force

Further proof that nobody actually bothers reading Big 2.

...

... You're saying ... ACTUALLY saying that the proof that nobody reads the "Big 2" comics is ...
(WOW) ... is the REACTION to reading the "Big 2" ????????????

Hey, how exactly does that work in a reality governed by causality?

Juggulus/Colossonaut