Star Trek Discovery ends up being based and level-headed

>Star Trek Discovery ends up being based and level-headed
>Orville ends up being an SJW shitshow
Post yfw Sup Forums got BTFO

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>Star Trek Discovery ends up being based and level-headed
Said nobody ever

>Sup Forums is overrun with marketers each shilling their own shit that no one actually wanted

I liked it quite a bit, and I expected it to be bad.

...

This. STD is horrid.

I'm not going to pay to find Star Trek on the internet.

Fuck you CBS

wait what? What kind of revisionism is this? The opposite of what you describe actually happened.

There is no SJW propaganda in STD. It's not any worse than normal star Trek.

There is tons of SJW propaganda in The Orville. Episode 3 really upset me. Stupid Murrikans bring a honest alien into conflict with society with their stupid "progressive" ideas, and in the end achieve nothing but making him sad.

But The Orville is still the better show and STD is irredeemable garbage. Unless they fix the Klingons, at least.

I haven't watched any STD yet, but I was looking forward to The Orville and it has worn out its welcome by the third episode.

Episode 1 was kind of fun. They covered a lot of ground quickly. They apparently made all of their best jokes (even though most of them weren't very good).

Episode 2 and 3 are just Star Trek: The Next Generation, but bad and dumb. I mean seriously, it's like the joke is that the show is bad and dumb. "Ha ha! We've got a species that's all male, and they form gay-married couples and lay eggs, and we're not going to explain how that works at all!" It's not even fun to make fun of when it's dumb, like TNG was, because it doesn't even try to pretend it takes itself seriously.

Galaxy Quest meets Hyperdrive it ain't. It wants to be, but it just can't.

my nigga
no one remembers hyperdrive.

TNG was bad and dumb. Seriously, go rewatch it, only 1 in 5 or 10 episodes is actually good. I'm willing to give The Orville more chances, because it's the closest to Star Trek on TV ever since DS9 ended.

Hyperdrive was great.

Anyway, the "all-male species" just bugs me. If they have sex and lay eggs, they're hermaphrodites, not males. If they don't have sex, but lay eggs anyway, they're asexual (and it makes much more sense to call them all "female" than all "male"). If they've eliminated females from their species by artificial means of reproduction, there's no reason to have one sitting on an egg, or for that matter, to have a child on a dangerous exploration ship since it's not on any biological schedule.

There are lots of ways to have fun with a species that lacks the usual two sexes. One is to just be vague about it, have him occasionally say something with disquieting implications, and have the other characters take a moment to be confused and disturbed. Another is to think through how it would actually play out until you come up with some interesting insights to share: like maybe they've eliminated females through technological means, so they have holobeds in their quarters, and there's some banter with humans over who has it better.

A show with dumb people in it can be funny, I mean people being dumb is the keystone of comedy. This is a show written by dumb people, or at least lazy ones.

I'm OP. I pirated both.

Nu-Klingons are unironically awesome. I like the changes.

I was so disappointed in Orville by episode three that I couldn't even be fucked to continue watching it.

>Nu-Klingons are unironically awesome.
They talk like faggots, look like faggots, behave like faggots. Why was nobody killed when they argued? It was unnecessary to change their design. They make an impression like a cross over of dumb gangster rappers and dump white supremacists.

Orville's to trek what Atlantis was to sg1
Discovery's to trek what Universe was.
Or if you like orville is the star wars prequels and discovery is the drisney jj wars. Orviles like poetry, it rhymes with the original stuff, the beats are the same, but it goes too far I a few places. Discovery trek isn't. It would be better as an original concept not burdened with the trek label. It could be something more like farscape or rdm nu bsg. Some people have compared it to the expanse which I haven't watched, but the point is that it could have been decent on its own terms rather than cannibalizing the corpse of trek

The Expanse beats the shit out of STD. STD is complete utter garbage compared to it.

>mfw the shilling already starts
man you guys act fast

Discovery is edgier, but overall pretty good?

They look and talk like an alien race. They seem much more alien and culturally distinct now. They behave like pre-war imperial Japanese. I'm a longtime trekkie, at first the changes jarred me but by the end of the episodes I preferred them.

STD has only had two episodes, jumping the gun a bit here. And the Expanse has sucked since after S1.

Pirate it. That's what I did.

>Expanse has sucked since after S1
Dogshit taste, dogshit opinions.

It's kindof become a soap opera on a ship paired with a soap opera in a government office. I literally forgot to keep watching it somewhere around 2/3rds of the way through the second season.

>It's a "TV pretends contrarian and wrong opinions are still funny" thread

The new klingons are just shit. Even when comparing to the japs, the old klingons were much more like samurai.

Both shows are okay, neither one is very good. Personally, I give Orville a C+ and STD a C-.

But it's funny because
>marketing blitz for STD emphasizes left-wing politics
>marketing blitz for Orville has no politics at all
>Sup Forums declares in advance that Orville will be kino and STD will be shitty left-wing propaganda
>they finally come out
>Orville is left-wing propaganda
>STD is pretty much politics-free

Sup Forums got BTFO, and you don't deserve to forget it anytime soon.

The old Klingons were more like samurai in the feuding post-kamakura period sense, using deceit, espionage, and assassinations to compete for political power. Nu-Klingons are bushido as fuck.

It's been making me feel embarrassed for the board how much they've been trying to project politics onto STD and how much they've been trying to ignore it in Orville.

The only "politics" is the old "women are great, men are stupid" sitcom cliche. You hardly even notice it anymore. It's not funny, it's not offensive, it's just rubbing on a well-developed callus.

This guy gets it:
castaliahouse.com/the-scrappy-doo-and-peter-brady-of-star-trek/
>The show is a near-copy of classic Trek in nearly every way, down to the color coded uniforms Discovery thinks it’s too serious and important to use. Think of it like Galaxy Quest, but not a comedy. Both because the show isn’t intended to be a comedy—it’s a Trek CLONE, at heart a drama—but also because the humor largely isn’t funny. They try real hard to make it funny, but the jokes never quite come alive.
>But the lack of humor isn’t the real problem with the show. The problem is this: it tries so hard to be a clone of Trek, that it doesn’t do anything new or unusual of its own. It’s utterly generic.

>STD is pretty much politics-free
Have you watched the second episode?

Orville Episode 3 was anti trans you idiots....

>TNG was bad and dumb
This is the most obvious shill post I've seen for Discovery.

>t. 16 year old redditbot whose never watched any other Star Trek series and has no appreciation or understanding of what the franchise means to the long-term fans pretending to have a valid and worthwhile opinion

>STD is an STD
>it's literally everything everyone knew it would be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>level-headed
Orville's last ep was sjw as fuck but people have made fairly strong arguments suggesting that it might actually have been trying to be satire of sjw (hence why the kid got the sex change in the end) but very poorly executed; but STD has no such excuse.

Whatever you say, buddy.

It was pro-trans. The crew wasn't arguing against the procedure, they were arguing that the procedure should be delayed until she is old enough to decide for herself. The message was that individuals should decide for themselves what they want to be (and that it's okay for them to choose to be something else), and that society shouldn't dictate what they should or shouldn't be.

I didn't get that impression. In fact, women made terrible decisions and the male character was correct from the get go in almost everything he said. It's also a little early to tell since we haven't even met most of the main cast yet, looks like we're getting a white male captain.

What are you even talking about? A single line of dialogue?

I've seen every single movie and series other than the animated series. Ironically I think it's people who haven't watched Star Trek who are trying to project politics onto it, and who think these episodes were bad compared to TNG, DS9, and VOY's first episodes which sucked absolute dick.

I'm offended that they still had circumcision and that the doctor defended it.

>people have made fairly strong arguments suggesting that it might actually have been trying to be satire of sjw
This board in absolute denial, the same they are about STD being politically heavy handed.

How is it a satire? It looks more like they tried to make an objective and nuanced portrayal of a complex ethical and social problem, plus some penis jokes.

Honestly the worst problem with this show is that they try to be sophisticated, but nobody will take them serious. On US TV, a show is either funny comedy where nothing is serious and everything is ironic, or DEEP and MATURE dark and edgy serious drama. This and its mediocrity make The Orville get ignored.

If only someone forbid Seth to write jokes.

>STD is level headed

The whole show is about how PWOC is smarter than the entire starfleet and is persecuted for acting out in the cause of social justice (which is assaulting her captain and trying to fire on the klingons)

>SJW shitshow

So far the only Orville moral episode had our crew concluding that parents deciding to manipulate the gender children are born with is wrong

i don't know if you follow real life outside of TV, but parents transitioning their children is a real thing

I kindof get a similar impression with Orville as I do with the Star Wars prequels. Like someone with authority is making lots of decisions that aren't getting properly sieved through the minds of others, as if people are afraid to shoot down bad ideas and give their own advice.

There are a lot of stupid jokes making it through, and way too often the show even goes as far to explain one of these stupid jokes as if I'm too dumb to get it, then even takes another step and tells me what I should think about the joke.

I like both, but I think STD isn't very good star trek. I could be a nerd and pick apart all the shit that I didn't like in it, but I won't

I really liked last week's orville though and i'm looking forward to the next.

I couldn't relate to any of the characters in two episodes of Discovery. They're all bland and tight-assed. And how ridiculous was Michael's plan to attack the klingon ship? It wasn't even some clever plot to take control of the ship, or stealthily launch some torpedoes. She just basically punched out the captain in the ready room and tried to order around the bridge crew. The only part that kept me going was the battle and when the klingon ship rammed the flagship. That was pretty cool.

I enjoy Orville's cast but I wish they'd stop toning it down. Like where's the legendary racist robot? Great potential there.

If only they could merge the shows. Orville's cast and lighting and Discovery's budget and ship design.

No it wasn't. If it was, I wouldn't mind, we could use a little counterpropaganda, but it wasn't.

It was just a half-assed remake of "The Outcast" from ST:TNG, when they meet a hermaphroditic species with rare exceptions, Riker fucks a mutant female, and she's afraid to get fixed, and Riker's on her side, but they lose and she's fixed and she's okay with it.

Just like episode 2, which was a half-assed remake of The Most Toys (Data gets abducted by a collector, who views him as mere property because he's a robot), and the crew struggles with his loss and has to find and rescue him.

Notice what's missing from The Orville's version of it? Any kind of serious or original thinking. What does it mean that they are "all male"? They lay eggs! The argument against the operation is one long series of logical fallacies, capped with a truly absurd lucky concidence. The one good joke of the episode is the father being suddenly, absurdly convinced by watching an old Rudolf The Red-Nosed Reindeer animated movie, and it undermines the seriousness of his conviction.

>So far the only Orville moral episode had our crew concluding that parents deciding to manipulate the gender children are born with is wrong
What pissed me off is that it was normal for their society, but the humans tried to force their morals on them. This is why everyone hates americans.

>The whole show
We haven't even met the entire cast yet.
>is about how PWOC is smarter than the entire starfleet
Literally a male character was more correct than anyone from the very beginning about the entire situation.
>and is persecuted for acting out in the cause of social justice
Firing on an enemy ship because you think it will cause them to respect you because of their culture is somehow "social justice"?

The mental gymnastics are amazing. Meanwhile Orville's got a cucked guy forgiving his ex-wife, a woman proving she can handle command instead of that just being assumed outright for her being in the position like it is in star trek(all with black dick being introduced on the side), and an entire episode of gender issues. Pure mental gymnastics.

Did people even watch STD who are talking about it? We've only met one member of the cast so far.

In real life, there are also adults who decide on their own to transition themselves. The left wing is in favor of normalizing this and making transsexuals a protected class, and the right wing believes that transitioning shouldn't happen at all. Orville took the left wing position when the crew argued that Bortus' daughter should be free to decide on her own whether or not to transition once she reaches maturity.

But Sup Forums will still bury its head in the sand to avoid acknowledging the left wing politics of Orville.

>TNG, DS9, and VOY's first episodes which sucked absolute dick
This is how I know you're lying and have never watched any other Trek.

>Encounter at Farpoint
ANY episode with Q was automatically 10/10, nevermind getting to know all the new characters plus the principles behind enslaving a poor defenseless space creature and using it as leverage to do business with The Federation.

>Emissary
Awesome new characters.
Welcome back Smiley!
Welcome to center stage, Bajorans.
Dukat being stupid and having his piece of shit Cardie ship towed by a runabout.
>Not crying during Wolf 359 when Jennifer dies or when Sisko gets over it.

>Caretaker
Mommy Janeway for captain, cutie Kes and B'lana, hilariously cringe Doctor, super space niggers (Kazon).

Not appreciating these pilots just means one has no appreciation for Trek and should basically stop trying because it's not something you can really learn or acquire now if you haven't already since 1987.

The fact that Orville tackles gender issues three episodes in at all has it miles ahead of STD as far as SJW shit goes.

Is STD even worth pirating? Orville is only worth watching because it's free.

>But Sup Forums will still bury its head in the sand to avoid acknowledging the left wing politics of Orville.
I don't see any of that on this board.

It seemed it was trying to imply that leftists are crazy and have no arguments (hence why the anti-sex change crew was like that while the pro-sex change crew had no problem defeating every argument and making their own). I don't subscribe to this idea myself, but I don't think it's impossible. The poor execution would be why it's so hard to see this possibility as they looked very serious about these non-arguments.

Don't hate on the doctor, he was the only good character in VOY.

Saru is in all 15 episodes too you dumb shit.
The first two episodes are bad though, the Klingons are bad, and the members of Star Fleet aren't Star Fleet in their behaviour.
It also boggles the mind that they repeated the mistakes of Enterprise by retconning and changing things that are already established.

>ANY episode with Q was automatically 10/10
>Welcome to center stage, Bajorans.
>Mommy Janeway for captain
>Dukat being stupid and having his piece of shit Cardie ship
>cutie B'lana
Are you being ironic? You're acting like you aren't being ironic but everything you're saying is good about these series is stuff someone who's being ironic would say. I'm confused.

I'm not hating I loved the Doc and his cringe behavior plus the way his character evolved. The lack of social skills from the start and the way the character developed was a huge part of the appeal.

Enterprise was awesome. I never really understood why people disliked it, it's my second favorite series after DS9.

The post directly below yours thinks that Orville was ~actually~ secretly a right-wing show trying to imply that leftists are crazy.

Good timing.

>TNG: Magic spaceman uses magic to intervene with another magic creature's magic
>DS9: Captain goes into magic wormhole and becomes magic
>VOY: Ships get magically teleported across the galaxy by a magic space creature
>STD: Investigative mission on a communication relay results in an ambush by a neighboring alien species that escalates into a battle
Let's be real, here.

On top of that, STD had movie-like production quality, the rest nothing close.

>On top of that, STD had movie-like production quality, the rest nothing close.
This is the part of your post where I must object.

I don't dislike STD, but I also don't give a shit about production quality. A story's ambition is more important than its budget.

>He doesn't think Q is hilarious and awesome
>He doesn't love the Cardies being humiliated at every opportunity
>He doesn't love the Bajorans because having muh occupation survivors integral to the story adds a whole new layer and paradigm to entire Trek franchise
>He doesn't like B'lana or her Barkley-tier social autism.

Okay children it's time to get off the computer now it's time for bed to make it back to 3rd grade on time tomorrow.

JarJar is the key to all of this.

It was absolute dogshit. Even beyond the horrendous base writing and the constant retconns, it also flew in the face of what star trek stood for. And the crew was the most unlikable assembly of characters conceivable. Captain worst of all, being that he was objectively clinically retarded and on his very first sortie almost ended up murdering his entire crew on account of his retardation.

I think production quality is secondary, but nice when it's there. STD has both a superior story, and superior production quality to other opening episodes of Star Trek series, other than Enterprise which I loved the opening episodes of.

Are you being ironic? I'm legitimately confused. Nobody likes the Bajorans. Everybody loves the Cardassians. Some Q episodes are the campiest in the series, though some are alright. B'Lana is one of the many zits on Voyager's face.

It was the very first deep space exploratory mission by the Federation, of course they had different ethics and motivations at the time, that's part of what made Enterprise so interesting. Seeing a captain take drastic measures to defend his crew when necessary. Archer became my favorite captain in the series because of this, he felt much more human and realistic and less like some kind of paradigm of what a captain should be, or failure of a paradigm like Janeway.

Literally trying too hard. 1/10. Apply yourself.

>>TNG: Magic spaceman uses magic to intervene with another magic creature's magic
>>DS9: Captain goes into magic wormhole and becomes magic
>>VOY: Ships get magically teleported across the galaxy by a magic space creature
Are you really criticizing sci-fi shows for made up science or "magic"? Did you also think B5 was silly for using portals and warpgates for interstellar travel? Maybe BSG remake was silly for "teleportation" for interstellar travel too?

>On top of that, STD had movie-like production quality, the rest nothing close.
You're the type who would play video games for the "graphics".

I thought the klingons were pretty cool, kind of a hybrid of TOS and TNG with some new flavour added in

Just give it a few weeks, all the butthurt politics memers and non-trekkies will stop caring and we'll get some really comfy threads going.

It was great, I can't wait for more.

>Star Trek was never progressive
What did faggo- I mean OP mean by this?

t. never seen a single episode of any trek

Only non-trekkies could possibly like this garbage, by definition.

You underestimate the power of alt-right autism

What? Did you even watch Enterprise or just read someone's opinion on it? Archer being a favorite isn't even uncommon.

I don't mind made up science, but something the opening scenes of VOY, TNG, and DS9 all happened to have are things that could literally be described as "space magic", beyond comprehension, unlike a portal or warpgate. Q being the biggest example of this.

And BSG is an embarrassment to science fiction.

>You're the type who would play video games for the "graphics".
Ironically the only game I've played for years has been Dwarf Fortress. Picked the wrong guy for that strawman argument.

I've seen everything but a couple JJ movies and the animated series and I love STD so far. The changes made to Klingons are good ones.

I've seen almost every cast member of TOS and TNG at conventions, I've seen every series, Khan is literally my favorite movie, I dressed as a Vulcan for Halloween when I was 8. I thought it was pretty cool. I know it had a black girl in it, I don't care.

Did your 3rd grade teacher teach your class "ironic" for your new word of the week?

And of course everyone hates the Bajorans and loves the Cardassians that's the whole point. Who the fuck doesn't love the Alpha Quadrant racial supremacists going around enslaving self-righteous in-your-face morally superior galactic spiritualists. The fact you're trying to make an argument out of this like it's not some well-known detail for real Trek fans even further proves you have nothing to say on this entire subject. I mean WTF are even thinking without the Cardies we wouldn't have had the Dominion invasion (without which there's no Weyon and all the wonderful deaths he got to enjoy) or Dukat, Garak, and Tain.

This is quite literally the only place I've seen people who claim to be Trek fans who have anything better then a simple thumbs down to give to STD.

Samefag harder, shill

>And of course everyone hates the Bajorans and loves the Cardassians that's the whole point.
So you were being ironic. Sorry, I'm not used to this level of multi-layered aggressive irony, I must be getting old.

Post timers, newfag.

I pirated the show and recommend the same.

STDs or The Orifice? Which has the better shitposting name?

Tumblr and Reddit not enjoying it? I wouldn't know.

STDs by virtue of being official

The timer is the proof, paid shill. Your ilk has tried to use this trick too often, we know all about it.

STD isn't even a shitpost, it's just what it's called. Those morons.

ITT: people fight over which shit show is better

>the absolute state of Sup Forums

Reddit hates it more then here by the looks of it. Can't say about Tumblr, there's only so deep I'm willing to sink.

I wish I got paid to argue with people on the internet. If you can hook me up with these organizations you are convinced exist, give me a link, please.

Fuck off, transplant.

>Reddit hates it more then here by the looks of it.
The absolute state of Sup Forums

>transplant

I've been here since before reddit was a thing

Whatched the first episode. It would have been god tier if the characters weren't laughably bad and it Didn't have literally the worst cinematography ive ever seen in my life.

Im genuinely curious if Sup Forums can find a worse example of cinematography because thought about it all day at work today and i just couldnt. Every single shot was just fucking awful
And dont get me started on the "Spocks strong black woman sister who is always right" Shit that i thought was just Sup Forums satire but turned out to be real

Good god this was just awful

if you are a true star trek fan, you wouldn't be fawning about "production quality"

a trek series with good writing and good characters on a fucking nothing budget would be a good trek show

all discovery has going for it is budget
plot/characters/cinematography/atmosphere/continuity/message are all shit

it's a bastardization of roddenberry's vision, just like the kelvin movies

Your level of stupidity is inexcusable and has honestly become boring. It is possible to have characters in media who are assholes while appreciating them for adding to the story with their being assholes.

>I'm not used to this level of multi-layered aggressive irony
I'd say this is why tumblr and reddit exist but maybe you should go talk to mommy and daddy and ask them how to have a conversation with other people first. Some psych meds might help too.

>who is always right
But she's never right.

I like how you guys are literally angry about it having superior production quality to previous series as though that's a bad thing.

How desperate are you for an argument?

>plot/characters/cinematography/atmosphere/continuity/message are all shit
>he says unironically two episodes in when we've only met one character and have little idea as to what the plot will be
You just want to hate it. Nothing more.

What's "tumblr" and "reddit" and why do you know so much about them?