Can we just admit that this guy was in the right the entire time? He worked hard to better himself with the construction company, but got fucked over by Stark. With no other options and a family to provide for, he sold weapons. When he saw that Spider-Man was screwing with his company, and he found out Spider-Man's actual identity, he gave him a chance to back off. But no, Parker has to do everything Stark tells him.
This is even confirmed in the final confrontation with Peter.Peter responds to these points by saying: "Oh, well it's evil to sell weapons to bad people." Yeah, tell that to Tony Stark.
Parker Richardson
>the richer, more successful guy is always the bad one Ditch this mindset ASAP, it's literally just economic /r9k/
Justin Martinez
Nobody makes billions of poodles without screwing a few pooches.
Caleb Hall
When a lot of people are affected & influenced by your decisions, it becomes impossible to do right by all of them at the same time. Sometimes "doing the right thing" and "screwing somebody over" are the same thing. Sometimes, people who claim they got "screwed over" are just competitors who failed, and would've been perfectly happy to be the ones doing the screwing if it'd gone the other way.
Asher Robinson
What I'm saying is that both Vulture and Iron Man make their money by selling weapons to dangerous, probably immoral people. Neither is clearly good or bad; it's just a double standard that Stark is a hero and Vulture is a villain when they do the exact same thing.
Alexander Bennett
>man that leads secret black market weapons dealing group + heists on government security armoured trucks >cant find an easier way to make money
shake my fucking hand user
also i didnt expect the twist that he was the dad !
Aaron Price
>muh good vs. evil >muh double standard They're just two guys with directly conflicting interests, so they're in conflict. Spider-Man is just a guy who picked a side. What's wrong with that?
Jordan Foster
>Can we just admit that this guy was in the right the entire time
But he wasn't. He panicked when he lost one contract and started selling weapons to criminals that then used them to rob and kill people. He killed a subordinate and shrugged it off, he tried to kill someone who was just trying to stop him from breaking the law. He was benefiting himself and a few other people at the cost of putting many, many more at risk.
Nolan Barnes
You're supposed to empathize with Toomes because he got screwed over by Tony and SHIELD. However, he crossed a line when he sold dangerous alien tech in the black market. Tony has a LOT to answer for, but Toomes was creating an arms race that would've caused untold casualties in NYC. Remember, some of those Chitauri energy sources would've combusted, which Toomes' crew was unaware of including himself. Hence why Peter tried to warn Adrian at the end of the movie.
What I can't fathom is how the fuck did Tony Stark create ANOTHER bad guy with his short-sighted decisions? Toomes was one of the city's contractors and got overextended because he was supposed to be one of the guys to clean New York up. Instead, he gets sidelined by Tony's Damage Control as well as the federal government. They could've at least cut him a check to cover his equipment and labor as well proper compensation.
Elijah Sullivan
I was waiting for him to drop a redpill bomb on peter parker during this scene, maybe explaining to him that iron man is a capitalist kike and that he's taking advantage of america. it just fell flat.
Henry Rodriguez
Iron Man and Vulture are two sides of the same coin, but the movie insists on painting IM as the good guy and Vulture as the baddie
Grayson Hall
One of the only truly interesting storylines in this Marvel Universe is that Tony Stark's pre-Iron Man actions and even his pre-Ultron actions don't just go away because he's a "good guy". There are serious, long-term consequences that cause so much damage.
Tony, even as a superhero, is still a selfish dick. He doesn't stop to consider the impact his actions might have on others, until Civil War, when he does consider them and comes to the completely wrong conclusion.
Jace Nguyen
Yep. Even Howard's sins catch up to Tony too like Whiplash.
In a lot of ways, RDJ's role as Tony is a microsm of how his career and personal life was and now he's back on top (for now at least). Though RDJ's actions haven't caused anywhere near the damage and repercussions that MCU Tony has, it's really fitting that the actor casted is the perfect one to depict what a fucking mess movie Tony is.
Leo Butler
Couldn't SHIELD or Stark have at least compensated the guy??? I mean, he had every right to go all in on the business. Wasn't he even officially approved by the state authorities or something? Poor vulture man just trying to look out for his family desu :(
Jeremiah Gutierrez
Yea, the Damage Control simply taking over a job that was given to contractors was a plot device. It was forced.
Charles Gonzalez
They probably thought "someone else would handle it" or most likely they didn't give a fuck. To be fair to Tony, he was suffering from massive PTSD after nearly dying in deep space so he probably wasn't all in there after New York, but someone in his staff should've alerted him about Toomes' crew.
Movie Tony has caused more villains and fuck-ups to pop up than problems that he actually solved. Zemo and Toomes are just the tip of the iceberg.
Brayden Jackson
But they're not. The whole point of the first Ironman film was Tony realizing he sold weapons to bad people, and changing his ways. He thought he sold to governments and military.
This guy is selling alien tech to gangbangers who live IN HIS OWN FUCKING TOWN, where his daughter sleeps.
Luis Green
>He thought he sold to governments and military
If Tony had half a brain and knew anything about the industry he worked in, he probably already knew who America sells to on the side.
Tony just didn't give two shits because he's a billionaire living in the US of A with a cliff-top luxury home in Malibu. That is, until he gets captured himself and meets bro-tier (may he rest in peace) Yinsen, who teaches him humility and shows him the destruction his business has caused to the innocent lives in his part of the world.
Liam Gonzalez
Tony can't be selling anything to anyone outside of maybe SHIELD. Remember how the USA armed and trained the taliban? It would be like that, tony gives weapons to some okay people today, tomorrow they're terrorists.
I assume he currently makes money off of non-weaponized tech...although I imagine people could weaponize whatever eventually.
Anyways, I thought spiderman was naive. Let the vulture sell weapons then spider man can just catch the guys he sells too. Everyone stays in business.
Aiden Lee
>Can we just admit that this guy was in the right the entire time? While he was a bad guy, his position was absolutely understandable, and you could easily see him being the protagonist in another -more interesting- movie.
Connor Allen
stream starting at brettygood after ahs if anyone wants to watch
Lucas Phillips
He spent a shitload of money on a new contract before getting it ripped out from under him. While I am certainly no expert, as someone who works in the consulting industry, I know that if we had all our eggs in one basket, spent a shitload of money on it, and it suddenly ended, my boss would be broke as shit overnight, 3 decades of his life gone.
Jeremiah Jones
Is there a rip out yet ?
Brayden Williams
Yes, earlier today - hence all the threads.
Isaiah Ramirez
>yfw he answered the front door
Ayden Hill
First time since Iron Man 3 when a Marvel movie genuinely took me by surprise. I wonder if I would have seen it coming more if they cast a white actress instead.
Matthew Jackson
It's almost like the entire plot of the movie that started the whole franchise is contingent on the fact that Tony stopped selling weapons for that exact reason