Scarface Discussion and Recommendations

I've been filling in gaps in the films I've seen and one of the more prominent ones was Brian de Palma. Though I usually like to watch filmographies in chronological order, I decided to watch Scarface first.

The film honestly amazed me. It was so grand and impeccably paced and fleshed out. Tony was an extremely complex character to relate to. On the one hand, you have film filled with tons of violence and brutality, well executed tension and comedy, a film that is truly fun to watch and appeals to many people. However, Scarface is also a striking portrait of the romanticized notion of self destruction. Notice Tony never has a moment of realization or regret. All along he stayed true to himself and embraced the inescapable entropy of his lifestyle. This connects deeply, I think, to human nature. Part of us is the complying sheep that Tony calls out, and part of us is that selfish ideal of self aggrandizement and reveling in ones own demise. Because of this, Tony is both pitiful and respectable (even desirable) at the same time. We're not expected to feel sorry for him, we're supposed to feel within ourselves our own impulses to give in to that addicting self destruction.

So anyways, what are some other films like Scarface? Ones grand and epic in scale, while dealing with a character that embodies the sides of human nature that are mostly suppressed?
And did you like Scarface? I know many people find it boring or schlocky, but I think this dissection of human impulses in combination with an incredibly tense and vast and stylistic story makes it a truly great film/

>movies black people ruin it

What did people think of the ending? I was slightly let down but I think that's the point. No matter how insanse the ending was (and it was all out), it could never live up to Tony's lifestyle, to the nonstop anticipation that builds throughout the film. (I do like how in many ways the film itself mirrors Tony's story). And so the ending was fitting and narratively satisfying, but emotional I felt it was a little lacking

Blow Out is another great Brian DePalma movie.
John Travolta is great in it.

I think you're over-interpreting it. The character Stone wrote doesn't have anything like the universal existential relevance you suggest - well, not unless you buy into the whole shallow facile "a man must cling to his visceral, pre-verbal sense of honor and what is right in a world where we are all alone and surrounded by enemies" blah blah schtick that, admittedly, is what passes for "philosophy" not just in De Palma but in Coppola, Michael Mann and many other supposed "auteurs".
De Palma pulls off some formally magnificent set pieces in this movie, though, just as he does in all his movies. He's never made a single "great movie" imo - "Carrie", which is hugely enjoyable, comes closest - but he is perhaps the most technically brilliant director of his generation (better even than Scorsese as a cinematic craftsman). The scene with the chainsaw, in which the camera drifts peacefully back and forth between scenes of flirtation on a sunny boulevard and awful clammy claustrophobic gut-wrenching horror in the motel is one of the greatest pieces of cinema in the past 50 years.
On the level of Stone's story, though, it's effective schlock about 70% of the time, laughable over-the-top kitsch the other 30%. If you watch it back-to-back with Hawks's original version, what strikes you is how subtlety and understatement must have died in American cinema some time between 1930 and 1980. In the Hawks version of the story, Scarface's incestuous fixation on his sister is conveyed by glances and silences. In De Palma's you have Mary-Elizabeth Mastrantonio advancing on Pacino bare-breasted in a nightie saying "fuck me Tony" and shooting at him with a revolver.
Still, a great movie in parts.

Scarface is a masterpiece no question. The camerawork is top notch. And the motel scene with the columbians is filled with so much suspense and tension, tarrantino should be taking notes.

He DID take notes, dumbass.
The whole ear-cutting scene in Reservoir Dogs, in which the camera pans back and forth in the most leisurely way from the scene of bloody terror and horror in the garage to the calm sunny day outside, is lifted DIRECTLY from the Scarface chainsaw scene.

So more evidence hes a hack and fraud, got it.

All creative practices are basically built on what was done before. You can expand on it and/or mix things up... but there's not many truly new things in art. You're always stealing, some people just choose to do it consciously.

Why was tony so protective of his sister? Why did he chimp out on his best friend?

Did Tony secretly lust after his sister?

Is the remake going to be good, bros?

literally one of the worst movies i've ever seen

what's wrong with the ending? massive badass shootout before he gets put down. he couldn't have gone out any other way.

If we're turning this into a De Palma thread, Body Double is one of his best and most underrated films, no joke

Tony's protective/brotherly instinct toward his sister got warped into lust with a little help from absurd amounts of cocaine

>Notice Tony never has a moment of realization or regret.
He had when he killed his friend.

rise and fall is the ultimate genre for men: barry lydon, there will be blood. the godfather.

Do yourself a favor and watch the far superior original Blow Up. I mean Blow Out is pretty good too but its not 10/10 like Blow Up.

why?

thanks for the recommendation, will check it out.
its one of two main inspirations for Blow Out right?
The other one being The Conversation with Gene Hackman, which was awesome.

>So anyways, what are some other films like Scarface? Ones grand and epic in scale, while dealing with a character that embodies the sides of human nature that are mostly suppressed?

Carlito's Way
Aguirre, the Wrath of God
Fitzcarraldo
Le Samourai
Army of Shadows
Le deuxieume souffle
A Prophet
Once Upon a Time in America
Bob le Flambeur

Yes, it was also a huge inspiration on The Conversation. Blow Out is kind of an informal remake of it. The 3 films form a kind of trilogy, they're all great but Blow Up is the best IMO. It really blew me away the first time I saw it.

I really should watch that again.
It's one of those films that people call 10/10 and I just don't get it.
Is it a case of not aging well?

Blow Up? I thought it hasn't shown its age at all. Do you watch many arthouse films?

Raging bull

For a vicious thug, the one time that Tony did a decent thing (not allow the car bomb to go off), it costed him everything in the end. I wonder if that selfless act would help him in his judgment in the afterlife?

I guess. I wouldn't say many or very regularly, but I have watched a fair amount.
I liked some elements, it definitely didn't feel like a 10/10.
I liked Conversation, which was influenced by it, a lot better tbqh ( not that I feel they are really comparable since thay have different approaches in direction, just saying)

For sure, narratively it was the best way. It just had less emotional impact I felt, compared to so many other moments in the film. It was just so surreally massive that it was enjoyable but again less affecting. The problem is, I can't think of a better way to end it. Him living would defeat the whole purpose, him dying unexpectedly a la NCFOM would be very disappointing and contrived; so ultimately I like the ending, it just didn't strike me the way I wanted it to (which, again, may well be the point).
Definitely want to check this out, as well as maybe Dressed to Kill. How is The Untouchables or Casualties of War?
Fair enough, definitely some regret there. But not surprise; he had many moments of grief, but he seemed almost to live for them. To invite them in some subconscious way.
I'm working on Antonioni as well, so I'll line up Blow Out then Blow Up
Thanks, I hadn't heard of those Melvilles
Depends on how you look at it. If you look at it from a perspective like Tony's, the his whole life was justified acts of giving only what people had coming to them. Now to some moral standard he may have strayed and that decent thing was as step in the right direction. But to his own standard, and if judgment in the afterlife were based on your truth to what you believe in, then Tony has nothing to worry about. It would be like saying you're going to hell because you don't believe in this one specific god. Tony didn't see himself as a thug. In his mind everything was properly justified and it really does bring up the question of by what standard are we judged outside of our existence? Surely it will be more like the one that we create for ourselves then some ideal