Watching Breaking Bad for the 3rd time around. More and more it's clear that Vince Gilligan meant for Walt to be the bad guy.
The first two times I thought Walt was hard done by by Skylar being a bitch and Jesse being incompetent.
I know it's an unpopular opinion to think this but it's very subtel. And if people watched it more they might also get this opinion.
Also Breaking Bad thread
>it took him three times to figure this out
Are you a brainlet or just underage?
Literally what?
Are you retarded?
Have you ever got tested user? If yes, what were the results?
>I know it's an unpopular opinion to think this but it's very subtel
I think my theory is right.
The 1st time around we are meant to feel empathy for Walt
He needs Jesse to get into the drug world.
He needs His
He is worried about Hank
Jesse is the wild car causing problems
Skylar causes unnecessary stress and is a bitch and unsupportive
He's the antihero,yes not perfect, but who we are focused around
Even Mike is an antagonist and we learn to like him but always worried for Walt
It was only the 3rd time I saw the difference
So this... is high-level television analysis by Sup Forums.... woah..
What's your theory then,Mr. reddit
you're a retard and I am cool
I agree,I swas walking dead too for the 4th time and clearly subtle it was that actually the zombie are bad guys and not liek at thoughht at the first the poor diesased people you should feel aempathy for. For fuck sake, they eat people alive, how idi i miss that the first time around!
To be fair you need a very high level of intelligence to understand it.
Stop posting and lurk more faggot
Vince did a horrible job at making Walt the villain. If that was their angle that should have had Walt kill the kid, or Hank, or Jessie's Mexican girlfriend, or imprison Jessie. He comes across as a guy with a loose conscience who gets himself into tough situations and is forced to make some tough choices, but in the end he gives his life to make things as right as he can. I was disappointed that he never quite became Scarface as promised.
I think the real villain here was skyler, i mean she managed to go against and piss off everyone else in the show and the audience
I am posting!
I'm not a lurker.
Then what did you think of Breaking Bad then?
why did jessie kill that dog though?
All Walter had to do was walk away once he made more than $700k. He indirectly caused hundreds of deaths thanks to Jane choking on her own vomit.
Walt needed to know when to walk away and call it quits.
is every moment your not out saving peoples lives an indirect murder?
Those posts are great though.
What dog?
That was Chris in the Sopranos
Yes, Walter is indeed the bad guy. He chose an egotistical career in recreation methamphetamine production when he had been offered a hundred-thousand dollar a year salary at a prestigious company that he sincerely deserved money from, from people who were happy to give it. Skylar was a bitch though and complicated that transaction by being absent of thought all the time, coyly lying every day that she was working on a book or that keeping a home for one adult man and an increasingly independent school aged kid with a walking disability was a full time job, and for working around Walt in ways that teased his dormant megalomania. I can see why she was that way, I mean, Walt was basically a lame loser his entire life and often throughout the show, so she didn't know he reacted to her being a doting wife in the ways he did, but Skylar really did not make an impressive or smart character in any case. Honestly her whole character falls flat because she straight up doesn't need to be there except as an irritating complication and part of Walt's strained and uninteresting duality with his family. I know it's what the show is about, but the family part of the show was almost meaningless coming through Skylar and Walt Jr, compared to how tense it was with Hank. Just another part of this show that the writers didn't make the most of, yet kept in and were all to eager to slowly pan the camera over as if the audience is meant to be on the edge of their seats over this awful family.
>He needs His
He needs his what?
Dude, if Walter hadn't fucking gone over to see Jesse, Jane wouldn't have been disturbed and choking on her own vomit. That was all Walter's fault because that incidentally lead to Jane's father failing to properly do his job as an air traffic controller.
Up until that point, Walter still could've made his family enough money to take care of their needs and he could spend the rest of his days living in peace. After season 2's finale to the beginning of season 3, he was at the point of no return.
This is not a clever opinion. This is an opinion produced by a man of mediocre intellect.
*Gus
He needs His but Gus treats his badly and is tracking his very moves.
He even tried to get Gale to copy his technique just to kill Walter which was very bad IMHO.
Luckily Walter gets Jesse to kill him but that sets off more stress for Walter.
But on this time if watching I can see that Gale was just a man who was good. Maybe even better than Walter and you could see it as an unfair killing against Gale. Yes Walter lives but should Gale have died to let Walter live?
The weighing of life and death is very heavy in this matter and it takes the mind a long time to digress this
This is not a clever opinion. This is an opinion produced by a man of mediocre intellect.
Yeah honestly I get how way is emporvally a villain, but the show did it in a way where he was still a washy washy dude who simply did what it takes sometimes and sometimes it was really immoral. But due to the utter idiocy and aloof decision making of every single character except Walt, Gus, and Mike, Walt comes out as a hero because at least he's relatively lucid compared to the the rest of the cast who hangs out all day complaining about nothing over bowls of cereal, or ruining entire operations for addiction, pussy and self-hatred
This is the most 'Eric Cartman' thing I've ever seen on this godforsaken website
Literally making and selling crystal meth wasn't enough to make him a villain? Are you retarded? By default Walter never has the moral highground in this show
Duh. Bad guy protagonist who is not a villain or an anti-hero. And Hal played it perfectly.
I feel like Vince Gilligan sort of flip flopped on what he was trying to accomplish with Walt. At times, it seems like he wants us to view Walt as a tragic figure who's completely morally deteriorated and is no longer motivated by money or love of his family so much as ego and personal ambition, who would even be willing to sacrifice the former for the latter. But yet at the end they do the cliche thing and have him go out heroically saving Jesse just because that's what you need to do to appease the norms who watch the show.
Yeah it does make him the villain, but it lacks punch outside a few episodes that are about it, such as the guy whose wife kills him with the ATM machine, but honestly the show did very little to make clear that Walt was creating addiction and creating a new meth epidemic in his region. With characters like Tuco and Gus, it often seems like Walt is just replacing an infrastructure that is already there, and not creating anything new that's bad at all.
yeah i liked the ending but it might have been better if he had to pay for his choices and get his family killed, or even end up killing them himself
I disagree entirely, I think you watched the show wrong. Skyer's far from being a thoughtless bitch, even if an initial viewing might suggest that she is self-centred, controlling, and entirely insensitive to Walt's feelings. What's actually happening is that she's in an entirely one-sided marriage, with a husband who is completely inert - passive, barely there, basically just showing up and doing not much else. Walt hasn't become a mild, meek, milquetoast Mr. Rogers-type because of Skyler's nagging shrewishness - Skyler has been forced to micro-manage Walt because he's basically retreated into this numbed state of submissive acceptance. He refuses to communicate any of his thoughts and feelings with her, and spends nearly all of the series jealously guarding himself from her, refusing to talk, argue, debate, or assert himself, instead just blandly smiling and pretending everything is ok, while seething with resentment and self-pity.
I think her flirtations with writing are a way to try and be productive while inside the house. I'm not convinced she's refused to go to work; in fact, Walt isn't happy when she wants to return to work with Ted. Consider how Walt is when Skyler discovers his secret - he wants her to have no part in it, not because she can't help, but because he hates and resents having to cede even the smallest amount of control or knowledge to Skyler.
>go out heroically
He wanted to GO OUT BIG. And see Flynn and the baby one more time.
Final destination is that nobody knows who Jesse is, and everyone knows that Walt killed a bunch of nazis single-handedly.
Brerty good conversations in tbia thread.
Best /TV thread in a long time
Because he felt betrayed by Gretchen. Which is also why he didn't accept their help.
Finale season was shit until Ozymandias, first half of the season specifically was totally a reaction to what they assumed the new massive crowd of fans wanted, with its FUCK YEAH SCIENCE moments and unexciting villains. They dropped so many interesting plot lines or just wrapped them up with minimal effort, such as the massive plot line with Walt's old company ending up amounting to one three minute scene where Walt blackmailed them to make up for his entire lost empire. The ending episode was particularly stupid, Walt dies catching a bullet from an auto turret he built to save Jesse. Wow what an ending, right?
That's got nothing to do with his attitude towards Skyler.
Holy shit, really?? So deep. Makes you think...
I think it does. He didn't CONTROL the relationship with Gretchen.
>such as the massive plot line with Walt's old company
What fucking plotline? They didn't feature at all for two entire seasons. On what level did you think there was a plot at all?
True. Good points.
>FUCK YEAH SCIENCE moments
We could have used more FUCK YEAH SCIENCE moments.
I think he means that plotline had massive potential. It's strongly alluded to in S1, and there are other references to it throughout the series, with it getting more fleshed out in the last season.
This
And there was also the hints that the company was part of the multi-conglomerate that was complicit in Gus' operation, with the guy killing himself at headquarters and that apparently fake website that linked that GhmB with Gretchen and her husband's company.
There are times I disliked Skyler, but to be fair, Walter lied to her a lot and there was also the problems with her klepto sister, being pregnant, and trying to raise her disabled son.
Walter's main problems was not knowing when to fucking swallow his pride. If he hadn't fucked things up with Greymatter and not marry Skyler, his life would've been luxurious and mentally rewarding.
Why the fuck did he sell his shares to Greymatter for a measly 5 grand? That's just as stupid as the original partner for Apple that could've made 60 billion from his shares.
And in flashbacks, it was shown that he was working at other research firms when he met Skyler. That's mistake #2, don't get involved with a dumb bitch that smokes while pregnant. She was obviously trying to snare a beta provider like Walter and he should've walked away from her and continued his job at those other labs. He could've made something of himself there instead of wasting away as a high school teacher.
Hell, I even wanted Walter to get as much money in Seasons 1 and 2 because why not let him taste that kind of forbidden fruit? But his dumbass liked being the Heisenberg persona and laughing behind Hank's back.
I don't really see the connection you're making though. Walt broke up with Gretchen because he felt insecure and inferior of her family's wealth and quality. I don't see how his dynamic with Gretchen informs his attitude towards Skyler surrounding his business dealings.
>it took OP a third watch to figure out that WW is the bad guy
Are you fucking retarded? I didn't even finish it the first time and it was obvious. He's a piece of shit. The point is, we would all be pieces of shit if we were smart enough to make the best meth ever and capable enough to sell it in large quantities.
>And in flashbacks, it was shown that he was working at other research firms when he met Skyler.
Eh?
>Refuses help from old friends offering to pay his medical bills spiraling his family into debt and straining his relationship with them
>Decides that being a drug dealer is more morally righteous than accepting help
>Sucks an already burn out kid into a life of crime with him
>Makes more than enough money to survive
>Likes the power and decides he needs more
>Gets in bed with a serious cartel
>Forces dumb kid side kick to commit murder
>Mentally abuse and degrade him for a year
>Kid is mentally breaking and wants to run away with his girlfriend
>Let his girlfriend die
>Decide you wanna be the boss now
>stage a 1 man beta uprising against your boss
>Kid sidekick is in a healthy relationship and doesn't want to come back to working for you
>Poison his new girlfriends kid and send him into a coma
>Inadvertently cause his girlfriends death by your new business partners
>Sell your sidekick into slavery out of pure spite
>Feel a little bad about it later and decide to go free him before you die from your cancer coming back so you don't go to hell maybe
It's been a long time since I watched it so my timeline might be off but I know he did it all. Walt was never the good guy. the only people that think he is are fedora tippers. he was a weak degenerate piece of shit that dragged down everyone around him because he didn't know how to ask for help.
This is the best bait I've seen here in a while. Good job OP
But what had potential? All that Grey Matter served to do was demonstrate Walt's pride and stubbornness. I don't know where you're thinking it could've gone. That Walt tried to blow up Grey Matter? That he tried to whack Gretchen and Elliot? I don't see the appeal in that, so, what?
>And there was also the hints that the company was part of the multi-conglomerate that was complicit in Gus' operation, with the guy killing himself at headquarters and that apparently fake website that linked that GhmB with Gretchen and her husband's company.
I don't remember those hints, but also, so fucking what even if they were there? What fucking difference would it've made if Grey Matter was tangentially related to Madrigal Electromotive? In what possible way could it elaborate further on the themes of Breaking Bad? I mean, what do you think they're suggesting? That Gretchen and Elliot are part of an international conspiracy to screw Walt over?
It's just retarded deepestlore!!! memery.
Satan trips confirm. You also forgot that he drove his brother in law insane and got him crippled by a cartel hit and then later killed with his partner.
The scene where Walt watches Jesse's girlfriend die was probably his best villain moment.
Walter is indeed the badguy.
But Skylar is a bitch. Lots of series do this just fine but BrBa sucks at it. GTAV handles Skylar's character better than BrBa
>YOURE A CRIMINAL!!!
>AND YOU DIDNT SEEM TO HAVE ANY PROBLEM WITH THAT WHEN YOU WERE CASHING THE CHECKS
He always had this kind of controlling side. He didn't indulge it with Gretchen and she left him, in a way that his genius should have seen coming.
>That Gretchen and Elliot are part of an international conspiracy to screw Walt over?
That would have been bullshit. I'd have been happy to see Walt try to take it down in some way, maybe push Elliot and Gretchen to pull some very expensive but not very effective crime stuff of their own.
His arc doesn't work so well if E&G were just like him.
Or use his blue cross blue sheild health insurance from being a union public school teacher. Walt made horrible decisions from the start and anyone critically thinking about the show knew he was the villian. Brainlets who tuned in for explosions are the ones who think walt is bad ass.
Season 3's episode Full Measure had a flashback when pregnant Skyler and Walt were house-shopping. At the time, Walter was working for Sandia Laboratory which was a pretty prestigious outfit. I have no idea how and why Walter fucked it up so bad that he became a high school science teacher. He had a fucking second chance to become a big shot in the bio/chem industry. In fact, he worked at other companies from what I recall.
I don't think Walter is a good guy, but somewhat empathetic in Season 1 when he has cancer, an unwanted baby on the way, and a disabled son.
Nobody put a gun to any of those methheads so I didn't mind seeing Walter make serious bank off of something he was good at doing. One of my favorite episodes was him and Jesse about to reach their goal and then their generator goes down, stranding them in the desert. If that shit hadn't happened, Walt and Jesse would've taken a break, get a hot shower and some food as well as rest, cook the remaining chemicals and finally reap in a big score. But it didn't happen that way.
When Walt scared off those wannabe meth makers in the parking lot, right then and there was when I knew his retarded ass deserved to die. You gotta know your limits and like you listed, he just kept fucking up other people's lives more and more. Poisoning that kid to trick Jesse was the final straw. Walt had so many opportunities to quit the meth business and live a comfortable life with what days he had left.
Remember how Vito Corleone and his son Michael died in the Godfather trilogy? Both managed to die of old age, but the difference is that Vito was happily playing with his grandson when it happened while Michael was alone because of his prior actions. Walt had a chance to die like Vito which is an ideal death. Instead he went down with his reputation in tatters as a schmuck who couldn't handle his own autistic rage.
She didn't leave him, he left her. I can't find a clip of the confrontation, but it's pretty much all Walt's fault.
>“Breaking Bad” actress Jessica Hecht, who plays Gretchen, mentioned in an AMC Q&A that Walt left the company and their relationship because he felt inferior. Gilligan confirmed this was true to HuffPost, saying, “She’s correct, and that’s what I explained to her and to [Bryan Cranston] before they shot that big scene between the two of them where they were at the restaurant. It ends with him being so nasty to her saying, ‘Fuck you,’ and then she leaves tearfully,” said Gilligan. “In my mind, the interesting thing here — and I always kind of hate to nail it down so explicitly — but let’s put it this way, most viewers of ‘Breaking Bad’ assume Gretchen and Elliott are the bad guys, and they assume that Walt got ripped off by them, got ill used by them, and I never actually saw it that way.”
huffingtonpost.com
>“I think it was kind of situation where he didn’t realize the girl he was about to marry was so very wealthy and came from such a prominent family, and it kind of blew his mind and made him feel inferior and he overreacted. He just kind of checked out. I think there is that whole other side to the story, and it can be gleaned. This isn’t really the CliffsNotes version so much. These facts can be gleaned if you watch some of these scenes really closely enough, and you watch them without too much of an overriding bias toward Walt and against Gretchen and Elliott,” said Gilligan.
They just needed a scene of Elliot acting like a coward at Gretchen's expense to satisfy Walt's lust for revenge that the audience feels by proxy.
>Season 3's episode Full Measure had a flashback when pregnant Skyler and Walt were house-shopping.At the time, Walter was working for Sandia Laboratory which was a pretty prestigious outfit. I have no idea how and why Walter fucked it up so bad that he became a high school science teacher.
Ok, dunno if you were the guy I was replying to, but for some reason Skyler got blamed for it in that post. Not sure why.
If you have an entire fucking series about selling meth, eventually you get used to the idea and start realizing he did it for his treatment, but above all to get money for his family.
Pretty sure he did it for personal gratification.
On a second watch I realized Jesse consistently ruined or threatened to ruin everything Walt had going for himself, and there was really no reason for Walt to feel responsible for or even like the guy.
He did it because he liked the feeling of having power and he liked knowing that it was his work that was succesful. He made enough money for his family early enough that he really didn't have to half of the bad shit he did in the show.
>Watching this garbage show three times
Damn, nigga, you are in time for an intervention. Use your time wisely, only one life.
He had enough money to pay for his medical treatment and have a decent nest egg in early season 2 if I remember correctly. but he decides to keep going because it makes him feel good and starts lining the walls with money and bringing attention to himself. his intelligence was vastly overstated, he was good at chemistry and not much else. he made some fucking retarded moves in the show.
>I need my villains to be mustache twirling and lacking in any depth so I can tell they are villains.
It's been a while since I've seen Breaking Bad, but when I saw those flashbacks, the less sympathy I had for Walter.
Not many people get second chances in life. Walter was gifted with his chem skills, but he sought out that he had to be the big guy in charge. This is why he fucked up with Gretchen and Elliot with Greymatter.
He goes off to work for a top-notch lab, knocks up a woman whose clearly hit the wall and locked him down as her provider, and then fucks up with his new company job. Then he goes to another lab or 2 and fucks up. Why? Because he can't keep his ego in check.
Being Heisenberg was Walter finally getting off of everyone wondering who the mysterious meth dealer was and he got an endorphin rush. Finally, Walter White got his self-respect and notoriety in the world via his chemistry. But he kept digging himself deeper in deeper after Tuco, Gus, and finally the white supremacists.
>Walt brings a slacker high school drop out junkie on board to help him
>It's not Walts fault when it goes wrong
???? wasn't this guy supposed to be smart?
Agreed. Breaking Bad is like a very long version of The Godfather. It’s obvious when Walter lets the cokehead gf drown in vomit that he’s morally irredeemable.
"I killed a dog" - Jesse
>character literally says "I did it for myself"
>HUE HE DID IT FOR HIS FAMILY!
It's not a deep show, but man you fucking brainlets are a ridiculous level of fucking stupid.
etc.
I know you're having fun being a board tourist and all, but keep your blatant flaming to meme threads, please
The "XD science memes" crowd are never obsessed with finding ways to justify Walt's actions. it's even worse in normie circles, especially while it was still running. they get a vicarious power trip through watching Walt autistically ruin everything around him with fun catch phrases like "I am the one who knocks" or "Say my name".
Jesse was important so Walter could tell himself that he was a better person than Jesse. Is this really what passes for film discussion on Sup Forums? Utter lack of insight into anything?
Meant to say "Always obsessed" woops.
Walter White during early Season 2 when he tried to fix up the house reminded me of the Governor in Season 4 where he tries to play nice, fix that leak in the RV, and not go into psychomode. Both characters are a study in ego about how you can fuck up a really good thing with short-sighted actions.
The Governor could've ran Woodbury like a truly decent enclave of humanity in a Walker-infested landscape. Instead, his power hungry attitude and hostile aggression to anyone that he considers a threat to it is what bit him in the ass. I mean for fuck's sake, I was actually rooting for him when he encountered Tara and her family. He had a golden opportunity to turn a new leaf, take his new wife and daughter far far away from Georgia.
Then look at Walter, the same fucking inability to get over himself is what caused his lifetime of fuck-ups since the day he and Gretchen broke up during that weekend. He felt inadequate to her wealth and upbringing, lashing out at a woman he could've married. Then he feels he isn't getting enough respect in the company he helped found and sells his shares for peanuts. And like the Governor, Walter had a second chance at Sandia, but blew that too as well as being saddled with Skyler as his wife.
It's agonizing that despite their mountains of flaws, I wanted these characters to redeem themselves and get a better future. And this is why both are truly great AMC characters.
I never really got the sense that Skyler locked him in as a provider, though - the language you use makes it sound like she trapped him, and I'm not getting "trapped" from this scene. I get the impression that Skyler was going to be a full-time mom and that was always the plan, a mutual agreement. I don't know if you're bringing in any baggage to the interpretation, or whatever, but it's ignoring some key stuff from the text.
>inadvertently cause girlfriend's death
Wait did jesse's Hispanic gf die? I don't remember that lol it's been so long.
Absolutely beautiful digits and great post, by the way. Truly blessed.
Jane. Remember how Walter allowed her to choke on her own vomit?
It's a little fuzzy but I remember Walt getting in bed with those neo nazi's and Jessie didn't want to work for him anymore but Walt forced him so he tried to run and they went and killed his girlfriend as punishment.
Like I said, I haven't seen this series in a while. But the impression I had was that Walter meeting and hooking up with Skyler who was a waitress at the time seemed kinda rushed. Here's this older dude that's blessed with science skills and working at a good job. She gets pregnant and the 2 of them are feeling pretty good as newlyweds and eager to buy this new house. Walter even says there's nowhere to go but up. Something about it made me wonder just WTF did Skyler see in Walter. Most early 20somethings don't hitch up with a guy 12 years older than them unless he was a guaranteed provider.
>Skyler was a bitch
I'll never understand this. By the time it got so bad she cheated on Walt, how many seasons had he been cooking meth for? How many people had he killed?
He became a distant, deceitful husband and put their entire family in danger. She had every justification for acting as she did.
He means the hispanic girl. Walt go both Jesse's GF's killed.
>tfw you get a new QT gf but Walt says it's time to cook some meth
Don't forget lying all the time like the end of Season 1 when she tells Walt that she knows he didn't visit his mother.
If he had fessed things up to her in Season 1 by explaining that he didn't want people's charity, was ashamed as a man that he couldn't provide for his family, and cooked meth because it allowed him to gain cash on his own merits. Illegal yes, but it's not like Walt was putting a gun to people's heads and forcing them to buy.
Seriously? It took you 3 times to figure this out? You actually believed his "muh family!" bullshit?
Yes Walt is the bad guy and people only ever complained about Skylar because they're lonely, angry, virgins
Her cold attitude towards Walt early on can be blamed on him being a pathetic sad sack. but the moment for me when I agreed she was a bitch was not that she cheated on Walt. but that she stole all the money he had made to fix her fuck up. it was completely hypocritical. she didn't want to use the money and thought it was dirty but the moment she had a problem she was willing to take it.
Yeah my bad. I misread the post. Yeah the Hispanic gf was too good for Jesse and it all fucked up for everyone later.
I wonder if Walt hadn't dealt with Jesse and Tuco, he could've gone straight to Gus somehow and made meth for a couple months so that he could bank a couple mill and have Saul launder it so that Skyler and the kids would be set.
>walt goes into heisenmode and intimidates a cartel leader, blows up a building, murders several of his associates, indirectly causes the deaths of hundreds and terrorizes the entire state for months
>turns into a blubbering bitchbaby when slightly inconvenienced and refuses to just go full PUNISHED and drop his family and cook meth all day
was he inconsistent or am I autistic
She was always a bitch, right from the first episode.
So what exactly did Skylar do wrong for everyone to hate her?
t. Cuck I guess
She never offered to suck Walt's dick and always made him feel bad for asking.
Walt put up a good front at times. He got off at the idea of being Heisenberg that he got carried away. But remember Heisenberg is a facade and the real Walter emerges again.
Walt was an egocentric control freak with obsessive tendencies. That was his true personality.
When he blows up that building it's obvious he's terrified and just steeling himself.
I get that you dont want to be called out for "reddit spacing" but there has to be a comfortable middle-ground.
So was it a facade or his true colors showing? Why did it only reveal itself once he started doing meth? You'd think he would have gone into puppetmaster mode and taken over Grey Matter or something.
The only way to not be reddit is to brick post.
I'm not gonna say that you're completely wrong, I mean, that could definitely be a part of it, and I don't want to act like Skyler was perfect - she was a flawed human being like every character in the show - I just think it's interesting you're not asking what Walt saw in Skyler. If Skyler's a twenty-something waitress, she probably doesn't have a lot of experience of life, and might be flattered and enthralled by Walt's regard and interest - but why is Walt so interested in someone who in no way can be considered his equal? Does it flatter his ego, maybe, to have someone in adoration and awe of him? Does it make him feel safe and secure that she stands on such unequal footing, on a mental, emotional, and financial level? I don't think we can assume that Skyler took advantage of Walt, or frame it as though that were the case.