Christianity is True

Why are there still people denying Christianity when William Lane Craig has clearly proved beyond a reasonable doubt that God exists

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>everything that exists has a cause
>the universe exists
>therefore the universe has a cause
>therefore the universe was created by something outside of the universe
>therefore god
KEEP ME POSTED

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one here familiar with his work. One quick correction though:

>Everything that has a beginning has a cause
>The universe had a beginning

God, of course exists without beinning and so uncausally

Van Halen had a few good songs, I didn't know he was a Christian though.

How does he go from "cause unknown" to "magic"?

During the 80's, the only difference between William Craig and David Lee Roth was that one got laid every night and the other sang for Van Halen.

>everything that exists has a cause
>god has no cause
you just played yo self

>Irish
>not catholic
how are you still alive?

I respect William Lane Craig a lot, but the man is walking on stilts to keep his worldview coherent. Numbers are creations by God, but they are necessary for all possible worlds. He knows that concepts are really tricky when it comes to God, but his version has to be preeminent to all things. This doesn't mean that there is not a Creator, but that creator is probably not the Christian God.

Christianity is not intellectually rigorous. Hopefully within the next 100 years all that remains of it are its traditions.

and i've 'proven' beyond a reasonable doubt that you're a faggot.

>God, of course exists without beinning and so uncausally

and how did he test that?

did WLC go outside of time and the universe and made sure that God never began?

No, he just made that shit up.

In fact I have just as much evidence that god had a beginning as WLC has that he didn't.

SO i guess his argument doesn't work anymore more, since the inputs to this equation are completely arbitrary.

GIGO
Garbage In, Garbage Out

this is the oldest and most retarded 'proof of god' that exists, and it doesn't answer whatsoever what such a god might be. it could be the universe or a frog or aliens.

I'm OP btw. The cause of the universe must be timeless as time is a part of our universe so an external entity is not in time. It must of course be immensely powerful to create a perfectly balanced universe (see the fine tuning argument). And it must be a decision maker, a mind, because the universe has a finite past, if the eternal cause was not a decision making entity then the effect, the universe, would also be eternal. The finite past that we have means that the cause decided to create a first moment of time and allow it to progress from there.

Isn't it well established that Roth is a massively overcompensating fag?

They listen to kikes.
youtube.com/watch?v=5vCy2ZvUWss

>most retarded 'proof of god' that exists
No it is not. Show me a puddle that creates an ocean by itself. Show me a stream that flows higher than its starting point.
>it doesn't answer whatsoever what such a god might be
Except that
>eternal
>cause/source of everything
>uncaused
>free

A beginning is something which only makes sense within the confines of a temporal reality. An entity outside of time has no beginning nor end it just is

It doesn't, but that's not the point. It's a solid argument that hasn't been undermined yet. This doesn't mean that Christianity is true, or that Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life. Just that there is some kind of Creator. In the grand scheme of things, that doesn't actually mean much.

What does God matter if he doesn't interact with the universe?

but what was the cause of the cause of the universe

Tat has been addressed in the comment below that one

God is necessary for all possible worlds too. You haven't refuted jack shit. Nor have you given any evidence whatsoever refuting Jesus' claim to be God.

You know what will exist in 100 years? 1,000 years? 1 trillion years?

All of us.

I know where I will be. Do you?

Then god has a cause you fucking complete imbecile. Who made god?

If it's not too much trouble, could you actually try and refute the argument rather than just make a sweeping statement amounting to "he's wrong"?

How many times do you need to be told that God is eternal, has no beginning, and needs no cause to create Him?

Why can god exist without a cause but the universe can't? If it's so easy to assume god didn't have a beginning, how do you know the universe didn't?

God has no beginning.
God is not a created being.
God is an eternal spirit being.

Welcome to literally Christianity Kindergarten.

The moment you talk about 'timeless' or 'before time' you lose all standing. Neither you nor ol' Willy Craig can conceive of, let alone make claims about, anything of the sort.

I'm sure we can observe and verify things which exists outside reality/observation.

Yeah, same place as you. Spread all over the universe, for once we die our atoms will disperse all over the universe. All of us will make up stars, and planets, and nebulae.

>literally not the argument

Just like Sam Harris, people have no clue the argument is made..

Why are Muslims posting about a Christian

Because God is an eternal spirit being and the universe is space time energy matter.

How do you know the universe has a beginning then? Why doesn't god need a beginning, but the universe does?

Does God have standing?

Solid logic, about par with a pot smoking hippie.

Fuck you pussy. Christians here are either Catholics helping spics invade to further their numbers, pussy 'have a heart' evangelicals, and faggots like ted cruz who drag the GOP down with their stupidity.

Christian morality is a fucking cancer.

>beyond a reasonable doubt that God exists

ur fucking hilarious

Proof?

>god exists
True
>some schizophrenic Jew was actually God
No

> An infinite chain of causes is impossible because entropy
> Therefore a First Uncaused Cause is required
> God is the best concept that fits a First Uncaused Cause.

Why is it so hard to undertsand?

Dr. Craig proves God must logically exist, not Christianity per se.

^ correct answer. It is literally impossible for anyone to say with any degree of certainty what happened before the big bang, we can only assume things that will happen.

He was always there.

Because I literally read the first verse of the bible.

Now we're in Christianity Preschool.

>an eternal spirit being
what shit are you on right now

Does God know?

>equates Christian morality with truth

The Holy Spirit of God. Highly recommend.

Even if he proved that, he didn't prove that Jew overlord god exists.

Jesus christ, you're actually retarded. Why do you think the Bible is true without a doubt? Why not Hesiod's Theogony? How can you be so certain that God created you and not Zeus?

>The universe had a beginning
first you he has to prove that claim.

the universe is not a puddle or an ocean, simpleton.

eternal, uncaused, free... undefined? that without definition doesn't exist. you're not even talking about anything. you're literally, specifically, explicitly, talking about properties of 'nothingness'.

would you look at that, the idea that the universe came from nothing/or has always existed are strongely antecedated from the concept that 'a god human created reality for humans'.

do you have any idea how confused your mythology is? you're just shouting about random beliefs. pro-tip all beliefs are false.

Shouldn't you have a Russian flag?

>muh irrelevant sect of christian identity

Time is just a direction, as with all dimensions. There could still be an "order of things" outside of it, just not bound by it.

That's why he treat that as a separate issue, watch his debate on the resurrection and the historicity of Jesus. Either with Christopher Hitchens or Richard Carrier

Science tells us that the universe hasn't always been here, the second law of thermodynamics for example. Furthermore philosophy tells us that an infinite past is logically impossible.

God doesn't know anything more than Russell's Teapot; neither of them exist.

Because Zeus is Adam. At least now you're in Christianity Elementary School.

that doesnt make intuitive sense though. how can something exist eternally, how can it not have a start?

based WLC put Christopher hitchens in the ground after he destroyed him in that debate at biola

Don't cut yourself on all that edge, young man.

he looks like he smelled a bad fart.

Does your wife's son allow you to visit Sup Forums?

The opposite makes no sense.

Point out the logical inconsistency then

Okay so you're either an actual autist or a troll and I don't care to argue with either.

Do you have your mandatory Putin portrait properly displayed on your wall?

the problem i have is that people use this generic argument of conspansive causality being necessary for the universes existence to support their retarded beliefs which aren't any different from a million other retarded beliefs.

and when we've dispensed with that what we have left is still 'woah' at the universes existence. all it points out is that most people can't imagine something existing without cause or the idea that cause and effect are just two sides of the same coin. what we know is that the coin exists but that's never the point of these types.

as far as this sector of scientific religious methodology goes there's nothing to offer of value.

>what is the big bang

Here it is:

You say that everything has a cause, therefore the universe must have a cause. What you fail to realize is that if everything has a cause then we will literally never find the original cause because we can use that logic on everything, and thus we will never finish.

Have you, or science, ever observed anything that exists uncaused?

It's logically impossible, yet, it's also logically necessary.

We define "God" as that thing which must, by necessity, be the uncaused cause of our universe.

Atheists just attempt to draw a bigger circle around God and call that the Universe. but they violate their own worldview by having "faith" in that belief, and no evidence for it.

>Russell's Teapot

youtube.com/watch?v=yJmS5oVBfJY

Gee, let's see. There's a bas relief on the Greek Parthenon with a naked man, naked woman, genitals covered with fig leaves, standing next to a small apple tree with one apple on it, and a snake curled 'round the tree.

Inscription: Zeus and Hera in the Garden of the Hebrides

Can you figure it out from there?

There is literally no point in arguing that the universe needs a cause because if God is the universe's cause then something must be God's cause. What is God's cause?

"Some schizophrenic Jew". What a laughable claim, take a look at the minimal facts argument for Jesus resurrection, you'll find it hard to disagree that he genuinely rose from the dead. A little more credible than the claims of a madman.

Haha. Oh yes Lazarus your sins are admonished. Sadly atheist fags are still worse then those who walk with a crutch.

>makes two baseless statements and assumes he's won the argument

Every time

Firstly, you clearly don't understand thermodynamics, stop pretending that you do. This is the most overused argument that makes no sense in the open system that is the universe.

Secondly, philosophy tells us that both the big bang AND creation each need necessary causes. Philosophy does not side with religion here.

True, but God's hand spans the universe, so the atheists are drawing a very small circle indeed. A circle that excludes the truth.

this is the confusion of the poor wastrels that waste their mind upon ideas they can't comprehend in order to reinforce their belief in something at last that they can.

don't worry yourself about such garbage.

in the west, people only believe in god so that they can get 'forgiveness for their sins', trash that they are.

>Universe is not a puddle
10/100 = 1/10, they are similar enough to do a simplification. Where do you get all the potential for everything that has happened, could have happened, will happen, would be possible to happen.. We know of a single source. "The big bang." Being behind our Universe. If you have consciousness, consciousness was present as _at least_ potential in the beginning. Life has been only produced by the living, so we could deduce that -for now, at least- a living (/higher version of it; we can't exceed it's potential) origin would make the most sense.

>that without definition doesn't exist.
But we have plenty of species/events still uncharted, unnamed, unseen, undefined.
We can't use such a thing, of course, but hey, the point was to point out God exists.

No, we don't have that. but Putin has Stalin portrait on this wall.

A shitty theory.

>I never read threads, the post

Christianity, Islam and Judaism are all Abrahamic religions which means they all stem from the religion that Abraham was trying to insist on people. The thing is, he niggered his religion from the canaanites and he niggered stories from other religions in other cultures as well. Anyone who believe in those 3 religions are without a doubt ignorant as fuck and too insecure about it to actually learn the history.

Take a look at the minimal facts argument for Jesus resurrection, it's pretty convincing that Jesus rose again like he said he would.

you have no fucking idea what god is, and if you did it would scare you. god isn't your friend and does not care about you, he has no forgiveness or redemption to offer you.

nothing is going to go the way you want it to go.

get real.

Okay, so issue with your logic, there are assumptions. Assumption 1) everything that exists has a cause, Assumption 2) God was the cause. Let me explain why you're wrong. If assumption 1 is wrong then your whole set of logic is wrong. If it's true, then your saying God is a cause, and since your proving the "existence" of god, then god has a cause... and thus logic is just circular and you get nowhere. 2) Other universes colliding could've been the creation of ours. 1 counter-example just proves that # 2 is wrong. This is basic Logic, and thus I have just refuted your claim.

>A shitty theory.
Quality argument. Will screencap as proof of evolution.

he doesn't need to read your worthless contribution or anyone elses. answer the fucking question or stop asking stupid questions you can't answer.

live your fucking life and be content with it.

But how do you know which religion came first? How do you know Christianity isn't a ripoff of Hellenism? Why do you take the Bible as truth instead of the Theogony?

Because it's not bound to the arbitrarily distributed confines of our world.

>Christianity, Islam and Judaism are all Abrahamic religions which means they all stem from the religion that Abraham was trying to insist on people.
According to Christ, kikes take their ways from satan, not Abraham. Anybody taking it from Abraham would be the seed of Abraham, but alas, this angered the kikes.

The claim is not that everything has a cause, it is that everything that has a beginning has a cause, and therefore the universe must have a cause because it began. God however is the best explanation for the first uncaused cause, as he is outside of time and so has no beginning

Attempting to ascertain the characteristics of a thing before proving that it exists (or even showing how it could foreseeably be proved) leaves you on the verge of circular reasoning.

Order requires arrangement by some means. Arrangement is an action, and actions take place within the passage of time. The 'things' that you mention also require space in order to be present. Either way,
>Could
As I said, it's impossible to verify or even conceive of such things.

it's pretty convincing to an idiot.

in the real world where we don't have tin foil on our heads we don't think that people come back from the dead because of a fucking BOOK. do you believe harry potter, too?

Gods only created you to be thy slaves. Apparently all you do in Heaven is Worship some dude that made a bunch of retards and put them on a Water planet. Moses parted a sea lol. I parted a sea an hour ago when i dropped a nuclear turd. God doesn't exist but your soul perhaps might.

Sounded like his argument at the Christian Book Expo back in 2009.

Hey, that was a nigger posting the argument incorrectly. It is not everything has a cause, it is everything that begins to exist has a cause.

How do my Christian bros feel about Hilary being outed as a believer in the occult?

Assuming that everything has a cause, what if I create something, and it's sole purpose of existence is to have no cause, does that mean that there are things that exist and their cause is to have no cause?

Where is a proof for big bang?
Big bang is nearly as retarded as parallel universes theory.