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???

movie fucking sucks

It's great.

It's shit.

It's average.

It's good

I get that brutal darkness is a cool new thing but watching them take chunky swings gave me a headache

it's alright

I liked it

Make up your mind!

it was ok

it's aight

I have no idea what to think now

I actually liked this fight.

It’s gay

MarySue.gif
incredibly horrid chick flick. do not watch

It's formulaic but it delivers what capeshit fans want but it's a soulless rehash of a better movie

It's JJ Abrams. It is cheetoh dust.

TFA's final duel is amazing and rivals the ESB duel as the best in the saga. The choreography is fast and brutal without resorting to the dance battle bullshit of the prequels. The characters are developed and have actual relationships with each other so you understand why they're fighting and what they're fighting for, so you have a reason to care about what's going on, it's not just a fight for its own sake. It's a really nice fight aesthetically too, that forest set was great, the dark forest in the middle of a snowstorm lit only by the lightsaber blades was beautiful.

and no "Kylo should have won because muh powerlevel headcanon!!!" isn't real criticism that's EU/wookiepedia autism

Adam Driver is 6ft 2. Could a 5ft 5 woman ever overpower someone that easily? Even if they were "injured" like Kylo was.

>have laser hand guards
>enemy manages to handle sword
?

>you understand why they're fighting and what they're fighting for,

The First Order did nothing wrong. Why doesn't Rey join their cause?

Didn't you see Yodel lifting that X-Wing?
It is entirely consistent to assume that the force can boost your raw strength.
If you have a problem with that you should also have a problem with Luke beating Mr. Robot Vader who could lift a guy holding him from his throat with his own arm extended. That guy lifts.

>and no "Kylo should have won because muh powerlevel headcanon!!!" isn't real criticism that's EU/wookiepedia autism

yes it's real criticism
zero training and never even wielded the thing before, regardless of potential she was still a noob in vidya

Who gives a fuck you stupid nerd.

Don't raise questions if you don't want answers.

Pretty boy Luke overpowered his dad, a futuristic Robocop.

I didn't raise the question.

Size matters not?

That wasn't me, user. I suppose you're right about the force boosting your strength. But OPs scene seemed to be more like an actual struggle. Where it's genuine and neither are "tapping into the force" per say.

That's just some shit Yoda says to encourage Luke to get past his beta moments. Yoda struggled against Sheev, and probably lost because he was a midget. He never actually won against Dooku either.

for a starwars movie it's incredibly disappointing

I wish Snoke were a 7 or 10 meter giant instead of just Wookiee sized so we can have a real pendant to Yoda.

As far as I remember Yoda held his own against Sheev to the point that Sheev had to run for it? If he had really overpowered Yoda, whom we can assume is one if not his biggest rival in terms of prowess in control of the force, why wouldn't he have killed him then and there?

The point is that all living things have infinite potential and can do anything when they're thinking clearly. Rey finds her zen mindfulness and is able to move naturally and with the force because she is doing the right thing for the right reasons, while Kylo has driven himself completely schizophrenic and imbalanced due to his half baked ideas about sacrifice and power. This is completely in tune with the classic spiritualism of Star Wars, and is infinitely more meaningful than some plot point about going to the gym or practicing lifting a rock ten dozen times.

>kylo ren got shot by chewie's crossbow in the prior scene
>Sup Forums still insists this fight was "muh mary sue"

What about how Rey closes her eyes and takes a deep meditative breath during the battle after being reminded of the force, and leaps back into action with an effective and calm instinct that lets her subdue the man who is crying and punching himself because he thinks self-harm makes him more powerful?

by that logic the dark side of the force shouldn't exist at all cause it wouldn't be powerful compared to the light side

More fucking importantly he's internally broken after commuting patricide for the wrong reasons. Do people actually think this movie is about the importance of crossbow sniping?

The Dark Side of the Force hates snow.

Well, yeah. He's clearly in pain during the brief moments of him beating his chest.

the dark side is the quicker and easier path that leads to immediate power but it will always lose in the end because it is irrational and self-destructive

>Kylo should have won because muh powerlevel headcanon!!!
not just that garbage
have you ever armwrestle a woman or anything similar?
even the skinniest male is stronger than the same looking skinny woman

Correct. The dark side is an unnatural force that's only temporarily and superficially more powerful than the true force. This has been repeated in every single Star Wars film multiple times. It kind of baffles me that there are people who have followed this series for decades and have not been able to follow it's blatantly clear message, that selfish egotism and liar for power destroy the soul, and that true power occurs from selfless zen mindfulness. People really have trouble with that, apparently.

b-but... we're luminous beings...

Yoda makes up for his size by making weird yelps as he does cool acrobatic flips, right? I'm sure that's what he always meant.

uhhhhhhhhh did you not see the force awakens buddy?

Have you ever lifted an X-wing with your mind? It's space mysticism, not MMA.

>crossbow
>not a bowcaster capable of one-shotting armored stormtroopers
>somehow kylo lives through this

>start argument in SW thread
>know nothing about Star Wars
Anger, pain, fear only make a dark side force user stronger

its average but kylo is goat

no its not
space magic is when Yoda absorbs Sheev's lighting

>As far as I remember Yoda held his own against Sheev to the point that Sheev had to run for it?

uh, yoda ran away, muh dude

Anyone else find this movie comfy christmas watching?

Did you? The dark side did not do well in this movie, they were only able to fire a giant gun once, and they lost every fight they got in. I see a lot of people completely misunderstanding this movie because they assume TFO are badass winners, but they merely have one planet which gets destroyed, and they lose every confrontation in the movie. People really did turn off their brain watching this one, if they actually believed TFO was more powerful than an angry school shooter with a particularly large weapon.

the dark side still requires a commitment and faith in your convictions, Kylo is an insecure manchild who doesn't actually believe his own hype. He feigns commitment to the dark side because he thinks the only way to be a real man is to be le edgy sith lord but deep down he knows he's a piece of shit and just a bad copy of Vader. He's full of conflict throughout the entire movie and he thinks killing his dad will rid him of his conscience, but it doesn't work. He's questioning everything he believes and is having a full breakdown during the climax

but I know this won't register with you at all because you're a prequelbabby/EUfag who thinks Star Wars is about le ebin power levels and being a badass space ninja doing flips xDDD

Or when Yoda force jumps, or when Anakin is able to drive a podracer with extra-human perception, or when Luke aims a torpedo using only his mind.

It was bad. In spite of his injury Kylo was toying with both Finn and Rey and could have finished either fight at any time, Rey turned it around by literally closing her eyes for 10 seconds to become a better swordsman.

all of those only help the dark side users lmao
Jedi are the one who need clean conscience and balance
as i said, dont post an argument in a SW thread if you dont know shit about SW you faggot

Good post. Glad some people didn't turn off their brains for this one.

Look at op's image again man, look carefully, do you see the dark side doing well? they didn't do well the whole movie, and then when kylo fights rey, rey destroys his ass. reevaluate what sort of retarded logic is in your head, and tell me again that the dark side is the quicker and easier path and leads to more immediate power

they want the Dark Souls audience

>it will always lose in the end

Meanwhile, in EUland, the dark side has been around for 10s of thousands of years, oftentimes dominating the entire galaxy, and it came right back approximately 12 seconds after Sheev had his little fall. Good times.

>DUDE EMOTIONS STOP KYLO USING THE FORCE
Emotions are the fuel of the dark side
just how retarded are you lmao

Well in that case, a Sith lord shouldn't be able to die.

do you think Sheev would have been successful if he was an inept, insecure moron prone to petty fits of rage?

He was successful because he was a machiavellian schemer who loved being evil and took pleasure in dominating and killing others

There is one force, and if you use it selfishly and from your own egotistical emotions then you are using its dark side. The dark side is superficially more powerful but is volatile and destructive to the soul, while selflessly cooperating with the force and letting it flow through you is how you use the force's light side, which is more stable, balanced, and true, and always overcomes the darkness in the end. That's what happened at the end of this movie. The emotional angry fit Kylo has throwing at the end was merely an egotistical tantrum, and is easily defeated by the zen mindfulness of someone who is awakened to the universal nature of the force, and who is not fixated on abusing the force for power.

>The characters are developed and have actual relationships with each other so you understand why they're fighting and what they're fighting for,
Tbh I had no idea why Kylo intercepted them. Why didn't he go after Chewie after killing Han?
Chewie retaliated, Rey and Finn were just running away
His beef with Finn isn't really understandable. If you commanded an army of thousands of soldiers and your base was exploding, would you take your time spanking that one traitor's ass?
And what about his beef with Rey? He went from "I need the girl because she saw the map" to "snoke wants the girl" to "you need a teacher". What?

I don't think we disagree at all. The dark side is pathetic and weak in this movie, but it does give at least enough power to pull off some force tricks and to build a giant superweapon that can blow up a star system in one shot. All of this stuff continuously fails and crumbles throughout the movie, but the dark side did grant certain powers before it all came tumbling down at the end.

>Sheev had to run for it
Nice try Yoda
"Into exile I must go, failed I have" - you

>there is only 1 type of emotion and and 1 type of person
amazing thinking man
just wow, i am truly amazed by your logic

i dont know dude, Sheev rekt those Jedi Masters and Windu pretty hard
i thought the the balanced and stable always overcomes the darkness?
>WELL ONLY IF IT FITS MY CASE
topkek
that was the end for Windu and that Masters, and they the balanced stable ones didnt win in the end

He wanted to capture Rey and to take her on as an apprentice the entire movie. He wanted to turn her to the dark side. Remember thatvhe asks her to join him so he can show her the force? Snoke also wanted to capture Rey.

I don't think vader showed any emotions or selfishness, until he was dying was when he showed emotions and only for his son, maybe you're just trying to make a shitty movie logical when there's 6 movies that already laid the ground work to how everything is and the newest movie/director didn't bother to watch them and follow suit

So if a random girl tries to fight a trained martial artist who is somewhat injured is she going to win? Also the actual fight was mediocre.

Chewie is one of the strongest fighters though. He's the only character that fought in the clone wars that's still alive. Chewie, especially enraged, could feasibly solo Kylo.

It's trans

>be Sith
>get shot
>still go after people alone with no backup to try and physically overpower them

>His beef with Finn isn't really understandable.

Finn saw the insanity of the violence in front of him and turned away from it, he did what Kylo can't and that's why Kylo hates him so much.

>his beef with Rey

He hates that she's so powerful despite her humble origins while he's the grandson of Vader yet is full of insecurities and weakness. He also has some kind of personal attachment to her and was under orders from Snoke to take her back alive. What's there not to understand?

>Rey and to take her on as an apprentice the entire movie.
What? When? He only said that at the end
>Remember thatvhe asks her to join him so he can show her the force?
Yes, at the end, not "the entire movie"

>build a giant superweapon that can blow up a star system in one shot
has nothing to do with the force, if we're only talkign about the dark side of the force, you guys are posting hypocritical ideas around that conflict with one another.

by the way
>but the dark side did grant certain powers before it all came tumbling down at the end.
it was 1 movie, it took 3 movies before the "dark side" came tumbling down in the originals

pretty sure Luke was swinging like a raging faggot at the end of ROTJ and that how he defeated Vader and in that combat Vader was the stable balanced one

then the emotionally unstable Vader threw Sidious off into space, Sidious who i am pretty sure was balanced and stable
so how does it work really?
obviously not like your shitty made up headcanon force

I'm pretty sure I could beat up Conor MacGregor if I shot him in the side with a shotgun first t b h

Drop Lightsaber into the spess wars equivalent of Jupiter.

>How did we get this again? It doesn't matter XD

worked out fine for Darth Bane

The PT was about how the Jedi Council had lost touch with the force and became clueless to stop a villainous coup. Windu and Yoda and everyone in the movie consistently display a lack of understanding, and focus on useless dogma and politicking instead of being lucid to the situation at hand. Even so during all of this, Luke is born and the light has its hidden victory that leads into the major victory of the OT. Sheev was a pretty great dark side user who for the most part knew how to make it work, though he did melt his face, wreak massive destruction for no reason, and enable his future murderer to be in the position where he would eventually kill him.

>Chewie is one of the strongest fighters though.
No, where did you get that from
>He's the only character that fought in the clone wars that's still alive.
No, 3PO fought as well and survived
Chewie was only seen fighting in Kashyyyk against fodder droids and clones.
>Chewie, especially enraged, could feasibly solo Kylo.
Fucking lol
Here's what would happen 1v1
>Chewie shoots
>Kylo freezes shot mid air
>He also freezes Chewie
>He either force chokes him or slashes him
>Roll credits

>3PO fought
lel

>The PT was about how the Jedi Council had lost touch with the force
wrong
> Windu and Yoda and everyone in the movie consistently display a lack of understanding, and focus on useless dogma and politicking
also wrong
>Sheev was a pretty great dark side user who for the most part knew how to make it work, though he did melt his face, wreak massive destruction for no reason, and enable his future murderer to be in the position where he would eventually kill him.
his future murderer was Vader your retard, Luke couldnt even touch Sheev
and literally every Sith knows his apprentice will kill him eventually, literally nothing out of the ordinary expect
watch the fucking movies because you obviously havent seen them lmao

Not less than Chewie, that's my point. The argument that "Chewie is as strong as Kylo because he survived the clone wars" is shit

But the Dark Side lost in every movie of the OT except ESB. The Death Star gets destroyed by a force guided torpedo in the first film.
Vader was yelling and force choking people all the time. Yes he did mellow out by the end, when he is explicitly shown to be doubtful of his decisions, and eventually returns to the light side, but even in ESB when e was trying to appeal to Luke he was doing so in the name of power and dominance. He was very emotional about Luke, as shown in ESB's title crawl and due to the fact that he persues Luke the entire movie.
It's basic zen mindfulness vs egotism. That's always been the dichotomy and just because certain dark side users quietly seethe between their angry tantrums doesn't mean they haven't stayed consistent to that throughout he whole series.

>and literally every Sith knows his apprentice will kill him eventually, literally nothing out of the ordinary

Why do you have such a hard time believing the dark side is a self-destructive ideology when one of its core tenets is that you MUST kill your teacher to prove you're the biggest badassest Sith Lord around?

he was choking people out that were shit talking the force dude, infact it's a common theme throughout every starwars movie that the lieutenants or whatever they are constantly say the force isn't necessary and vader puts them in their fucking place, you want to say just cause hes asserting dominance and putting a stupid moron in his place is irrational and emotional? what the fuck are you retarded?

in that case the light side is self destructive too since you cant/forbidden to reproduce
gg

>you want to say just cause hes asserting dominance and putting a stupid moron in his place is irrational and emotional? what the fuck are you retarded?

I think if you tried to choke someone out irl for telling you God doesn't exist you'd be branded an easily triggered retard

I'm starting to think you don't like Kylo because he reminds you of yourself

prequelshit doesn't count considering TFA explicitly ignores them besides an offhanded mention of a clone army and Luke having a father

Snoke and Kylo talk about 'the girl' and Kylo says he thinks se can be turned to the dark side in their second meeting. Once he captures her in the jungle he quits his main objective of finding the droid because he believes he's found something better in Rey. When Kylo probes her mind he is personally shaken by her ability to overpower him, and throws a fit when she escapes. Kylo is existentially fixated on Rey as a force user, it was all in the movie

>IT DOESNT COUNT BECAUSE IT DOESNT FIT MY ARGUMENT REEEE
you lose
its canon and you cant do shit about it

no dude, you don't fucking get it just like they(lieutenants or w/e) didn't fucking get it, vader knows more than anyone how important the force was to winning their war, like you said a force guided torpedo won the light side the fucking war, vader was the most intelligent character in the entire movie aside from obi-wan kenobi or yoda. He knew without the force there was no way they would win so he had to constantly remind the shit talking haters to shut the fuck up

>every dark-side user is a Sith
leave the thread now you fucking retard
also all you even prove with that one is that Sith ideologies are destructive, not the dark side itself, now get the fuck out faggot

lel what. Chewie sniped Kylo no problem, do you think he couldn't do it again? Does Kylo have the strength to force choke a 7ft 500 lb wook in his weakened condition? Wooks don't even feel pain when they fly into a rage. Face it, Chewie is a grizzled veteran who would eat kylo alive, even at full strength.

>Sith ideologies are destructive because the stronger always kill the previous strongest making sure only the strongest of the strongest succeed
>Jedi ideologies accept any shitter, but its not destructive
yeah, sure

Luke beat Vader at his own game because Luke was more emotional and hateful in that moment, but he was playing right into the Emperor's hands. It wasn't until Luke dropped his hate and dark sided egotism that he was able to piss of Sheev and literally purify the wayward soul of Darth Vader through his display of sacrifice, being unwilling to fight back while being tortured by Sheev. Don't tell me you didn't understand RotJ, now.

>Chewie sniped Kylo no problem, do you think he couldn't do it again?
Of course not. Chewie only landed the shot at a distressed Kylo who had just murdered his daddy.
>Does Kylo have the strength to force choke a 7ft 500 lb wook in his weakened condition?
Of course he does, why wouldn't he