Tell me about Sauron Sup Forums

Tell me about Sauron Sup Forums
what was he like?
why did the Elves call him The Deceiver?

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>Dude in black spikey armor turns up and offers to give you a powerful magic ring for free with no catch
>Believe him

too be fair. I don´t think Tolkien ever imagined him looking anything like that. He probably imagined him looking like a very tall Elf

Several millenia later...
>fucking men are weak

he was a shapeshifter

>>Dude in black spikey armor
>give you a powerful magic ring
Spotted millenial dumbfag who never read a LORE

he used to be able to shapeshift and was beautiful. after numenor fell, he got stuck in one form iirc

so basically elfs got tricked by boipucci?
LMAO

what´s numenor?

he disguised himself as a prettyboy, that's how the human/dwarf lords fell for it
the moral lesson at the center of all Tolkien's works is "don't think with your dick"

atlantis basically

is him convincing the human kings into becoming his servants the only time he "deceived" anybody? are there any other mentions of him interacting with people?

kys

he's called the deceiver because he made himself good looking and tricked elves into making the rings of power which he attempted to control with his own One Ring but failed

>He probably imagined him looking like a very tall Elf
by the time of the LOTR films he looked horrifying, but Tolkien never went into specifics

that´s a cool aspect of the lore actual.
I wonder if that is where all those games got their idea of "corruption" form

>are there any other mentions of him interacting with people?
tons! He tricked the elf lord Celebrimbor into helping him, he deceived the people of Numenor and their king Ar-Pharazon into pretty much worshipping Satan, and he defeated Finrod in a magical rap battle. He also got rekd by a dog

He interacted and enslaved all people in the east and south.
The only ones left was westerns like Rohan and Gondor
He made dwarves greedy
He also deceived one noldor elven lord Celebrimbor into making the rings

read the entirety of this, then come back

glyphweb.com/arda/default.php

cool thanks. his rise to powers sounds like it would make for a cool story

>He made dwarves greedy
I think remember him taking advantage of their greediness to manipulate them, did he actually make them greedy somehow?

this must be bait

he also fucked up Númenor by playing on their fear of death to get them to worship morgoth then attack 'heaven' and take it for themselves causing Númenor to get wiped off the map by Eru

The number that is above the denominator

is Sauron also the reason why no dwarf kingdom bothers with sending an army at the end of lotr?

What was the deal with the Dead Marshes. Did HE actually control them.

Who will play him in the inevitable film/TV series? jk, christopher tolkien will never let it happen

He made them more greedy than they already were
Thats why Thorin was such an ass

Well actualy I wouldn't say he did much of a shit to them they just gone deeper into the mountains

and found Balrog

he was powerless to stop the Hobbit "trilogy" what could he possibly do against the armies of WBs now?

>why did the Elves call him The Deceiver?

Did they? I remember Viggo Mortensen saying it in The Fellowship but that's all. I don't think it's even used elsewhere.

Why does he wear the mask?

his face when

that's a helmet you memeloving fuck

for you

He was beaten by one of those lazy, pipe-weed smoking, ale drinking, hairy, lazy hobbits.


Scouring of the Shire best day of my life.

The rings did it. Or more accurately they enhanced the dwarves' innate greed to jew-tier.

He still has the rights to the Silmarillion and basically any of his dad's stories that isn't direclty related to LotR, the Hobbit or their addendums. Pretty likely he'll take them with it to his grave at that point too.

He should have worked with them instead, form it into his fathers vision.

How is he over 7' in the PJ movies?

>Sauron should be thought of as very terrible. The form that he took was that of a man of more than human stature, but not gigantic.

>defeated Finrod in a magical rap battle

I laughed.

wouldn´t have helped. studio fucking up was the main reason why the hobbit turned out as it did.
Peter Jackson and his team had years to plan the filming of lotr but had to do everything in one year when it came to shooting the hobbit thanks to studio deadlines.

Why did Sauron achieve so much and nearly won, while Melkor didn't do shit and failed utterly.

Does this mean Sauron is stronger than Melkor?

Melkor achieved more than Sauron ever could. Go read the Silmarillion and find out for yourself.

if he took it off, would he die?

>ancient pretty powerful spirit that was there from basically the creation of the world
>corrupted by evil and even more powerful spirit who was first dark lord
>served the first dark lord but not exactly a fighter, when not in wolf form, more like a manipulator
>assumed title of dark lord after his master was defeated and he took a break from evil doing
>forges a ring for reasons
>bla bla battle
>ring gets cut off of finger by far inferior fighter after he already killed two superior fighters in 1v3 and enormously powerful spirit vacates enormously powerful body for the hell off it instead of just breaking Isilfag in half and taking back his ring.
>queue shitty movies

That's the gist of it. Also his name isn't actually sauron, that's a label given to him by elves.

Melkor did some serious shit in biblical proportions, literal "gods" intervened to stop him which fucked up the entire world. Sauron couldn't even come close to the damage Melkor did even if he tried.

The thing was he poured so much of himself into the One Ring that when he was separated from it, it massively weakened him. That is why simply cutting it off was enough for Isildur to vanquish him

He is a shape shifter (rip off of loki) and was emo tier hot back then so they believed him, annatar lord of gifts.

He only put on the mask after he got disfigured in the flood the gods brought down on numenor.

He also came back with more of a form when he was the Necromancer

>the gods

there's only Eru

Yeah that totally makes sense, it's not like he was basically the same thing as gandalf and the whole ring business was useless from the moment the elves busted his master plan. Got to be honest, LoTR is weak and childish writing compared to the writings about the first age. I would love to know if the initial version was as childish.

He's the creator yes, but there are other beings, and the elves dwell with them.

He permanently infused the ring with massive amounts of his own power. This gave him a huge boost to his remaining power but also gave him a vulnerability, in that if he is separated from the ring he gets super weakened. With how weak everything is in the third age he probably could have just steam rolled everything, but he wanted to be clever

I understand what happened but it still doesn't sit right with me, hence my accusation of weak writing comparatively.

>weak writing
I kinda agree. Before i'd read everything I thought the same thing about sauron. Like you said earlier, it really is childish on it's own.

I read somewhere that there are two versions of it although that might just be bullshit. Allegedly his first draft was too mature and so he went and rewrote it at the editors behest and included all the childish stuff which is now rubbing me the wrong way. Like the whole ring loss stuff and the witch king defeat and the likes, I wonder if that is an urban legend or true.

Also what do you mean before you read everything? Does LoTR make more sense to you in the context of prior ages? Because to me it's the opposite, he was a master manipulator, deceiver and immensely powerful comparatively to other beings at the time of LoTR which is why the ring plot always rubbed me the wrong way.

Without the ring he was and is only about as powerful as the wizards.

exactly my point. 3 roughly equally powerful beings (I would still argue Sauron > Saruman and Gandalf by their own admission). Also he corrupted Saruman while being weakened, with the palantir and without the power of the ring at his disposal, stands to reason he could have done so without the ring in the first place.

With Saruman doing his bidding and him at full strength the war would have been won, is my argument. He could still have deceived men had he wanted to, he did so before without any need for rings, as we know.

he looks liek a bitch

Saruman was never on his side, he wanted the One Ring for himself too.

Not like I remember it, gonna have to read it again at some point I guess.

>Does LoTR make more sense to you in the context of prior ages?
Yep. To me it highlights how powerful he was and without divine intervention, how things would've panned out. It gives it more of a mythic vibe imo and I guess I'm just a sucker for that sort of trope.

From what I remember Sauron made the rings for the dwarves to control them easier (like men) but it didnt really work and it just amplified their greediness..it seems only men fell for the trick

>defeated Finrod in a magical rap battle

I love LotR threads.

I've always wondered, since the Tolkien universe has such an expansive lore and gensis and actually has legit gods, why doesn't it have religion? There's no reference whatsoever to praying or temples whatsoever in any of the books even though it actually could help. Do people in the middle earth simply ignore the existence of gods across the sea or something? If so, what keeps them from coming up with their own gods?

Not to mention splitting a very short book first into two and then three movies. When they announced a dualogy instead of a single movie I was worried. When they announced it was going to be a trilogy I knew it would be shit.

underrated

He's almost dead, it'll only be 25 years after that

Play Shadow of Mordor and Shadow of War, they actually give Sauron a character

Sauron was quite possibly the second strongest Maia, only Eönwë being stronger.

They called him "The Deceiver" because he was a firm believer in the Holocaust. The elves, who knew it as the "Holohoax", began educating their younger generation on it. Sauron also started this bullshit #Orcswelcome trying to get them to integrate a bunch of Mordor swine. The elves mostly refused, but Rohan stupidly tried it out for a while. It didn't work, in the following election Gondor voted to close the borders and impeached their Steward. Their new leader is the controversial Aragorn 'Deport the orcs away somewhere far' Elessar. He also proposed building what the Sauron controlled media is calling "The Black Gate" to try and keep the orcs out. We'll see if it passes through legislation, tax reform has proved hard enough for them to pass.

I only play those for the combat and nemesis system

Eru is God, the Ainur are gods

The story is pretty cool and is movie-canon. It does a good job with Sauron and the Ringwraiths and Celebrimbor is pretty much Feanor

The flashbacks are honestly one of the best things about the game, I just adore the aesthetic they have

youtu.be/edZm4DQDZ1c?t=473

Dwarves don't give much of a fuck, plus the attack on the Black Gate was time sensitive. Getting a message to the dwarves, convincing them to marshal an army, and getting the army to Mordor would have taken months.

The thing about Melkor and Sauron is that they had different priorities, and therefore had different ideas about what constituted a good use of their spirit energy. Melkor was pretty much the most powerful thing in existence, and he wanted to create something independant of Eru. Since this was impossible, he ended up literally pissing away his potential to make monsters, corrupt Middle-Earth and generally fuck shit up because Eru is the exact opposite of fucking shit up. He had more overall cosmic power (he made a dragon that put all the Valar and the elfin armies on the backfoot until Earendil pulled a Hail Marry, and before that at max power he created the concept of discord), but he's also much more impulsive and focused on destruction once he realised his ambition was impossible.

Meanwhile Sauron started off wanting to bring order to ME, that's why he threw in with Melkor in the first place. So he focused on building infrastructure/organising armies/seducing the leaders of men, because he had much less to prove; also keep in mind a lot of shit like orcs, ents and the abstract concept of evil itself were things Melkor invented, so Sauron's really just cribbing from his notes and thus presumably didn't degenerate into being an evil 'tard as quickly.

IIRC per Tolkien's letters, Sauron without the Ring in the Third Age < Sauron in the Third Age with the Ring< Morgoth at the end of the Second Age < Melkor back when people still called him that

Nice autism.

>Isildur is a Nazgûl lmao
Fuck that

How weak WAS Sauron without the Ring anyway, ignoring the Shit of Mordor games? He must have been powerful enough Elrond, Gandalf, Galadriel and the eagles didn't think of just teaming up and hitting him until he died. Or was that because of the Nazgul? Since Gandalf fought off the Balrog, and I'm pretty sure even in the book all the Nazgul together had him shitting his pants.

Ainur/Valar are more a mix of pagan god/archangel than straight archangel, they were still doing crap after the world was created and in one of the letters Tolkien said Eru didn't want them to isolate themselves.

Because of his tax policy.
For once, it was never really written down anywhere so once a new fiscal year came, he could collect whatever he wanted. He also lured companies to Mordor with seemingly favourable tax rates but they soon realised it was not worth it.

obligatory
youtube.com/watch?v=AE8n4FiqZvI

> isildur is a nazgul
Wtf

isnt it like voldemort where you cant really kill him without destroying the thing he put his soul into

>to me it's the opposite

I disagree, always thought it was more a statement of just how fucking broken everyone in the early ages were. You had the Valar walking around, you had maia buff enough to make a difference in a battle with them, you had elves buff enough to fight Valar, you had men buff enough to fight these elves as equals & that one guy who dicked a lady Valar.

Compared to everyone in the Third Age, Sauron is a weak little bitch of a medium fish in a tinyass pond. Notice almost every time he takes up arms in Silmarillion, he gets his ass handed to him? By a FUCKING DOG that one time.

In D&D terms he's an Epic Level Wizard in a setting where magic isn't useful in pitched combat unless you're a Valar-level cosmic entity.

It's hard to gauge stuff like power levels in LOTR. Sauron was a spirit/angel thing so he really shouldn't fear some elves/birds/heavily nerfed down angel like Gandalf. But he was never much of a fighter, he was known for the shapechanging and manipulation but due to events in the past he could no longer change his form and then he pissed off most of the rest of his power to the ring.

After Isildur is killed, the orcs bring his body to Mordor and Sauron uses a ring of power to resurrect him as a Ringwraith so he can be his slave for all of eternity, as revenge for cutting the ring from his hand.

He's freed from being a Nazgul and finally allowed to die during the game so he isn't one during the events of LOTR.

That's a fair question. Actually I think there were cults dedicated to Morgoth; he liked to go around calling himself the true god of the world after all.

I like to think it was partly a function of everyone in the early days KNOWING Eru sang the universe into being, removing a shitton of existential anxiety. Humans weren't even afraid of death until Morgoth started shitstirring.

The thing is, the Nazgûl first seen some 700 years before Isildur makes an appearance. It makes no sense at all for him to be one of the Nine, unless of course he's the secret tenth Nazgûl nobody ever heard of before.

Who writes this fan fiction

But he's literally the same character m8. Though you have to slog through Simarillion and the game implies the reason he kept so many powers that would have curbstomped the Third Age in the game was because Celembrimbor hadn't fused with him yet

Which was dumb

It's just the bad fanfiction story from those games, ignore it.

No you don't understand.
I'm angry.
ANGRY ABOUT NAZGÛL

Yeah, the game's definitely not official canon

>There's no reference whatsoever to praying or temples whatsoever in any of the books

Well once a year the king of Numenor climbed to the top of the Meneltarma to give what amounted to a prayer of thanksgiving.

an island nation that the Gods granted to the Edain for their help in defeating Morgoth in the first age. The Numenoreans then conquered land in Middle Earth and captured Sauron and imprisoned him back on Numenor, where he slowly corrupted the line of Kings by telling them that it was wrong that men should suffer death whereas elves get to go to the undying lands. Ar-Pharazon then the King built a huge fleet to sail directly to the Undying lands and the Gods destroyed the entire fleet and Sauron got banished and lost his fair looks. Another faction on Numenor lead by Elendil, Isildur and Anarion remained friends to the elves and disgreed with Ar-Pharazon, so they left in three ships and avoided the catastrophe, landing in Middle-Earth and establishing Gondor.

Aside from the obvious answer "that game is complete garbage" You do realize that this bucket of horse semen does not even have the lord of the rings or tolkien license right? thats why they have to go to such lenghs to give it a name

I'm amazed that despite fucking up the actual minutiae of the lore, introducing a bunch of irrelevant side characters, nonsensical retcons and also Stoyalob. The game manages to stick pretty well with the overall themes set out in Tolkien's writings.

And that on a second skimming of the Sil, most of the powers in the game were at least somewhat plausible given how bullshit Feanor and "true" elves were compared to their descendents.

True, but unlike Voldemort Sauron has no explicit way to rez himself. He is a spirit operating outside it's purpose, slowly degrading from lack of divine support. Theoretically if you fucked him up super hard, he'd get weaker and weaker until he's just a formless voice whispering bullshit into your ear.

That makes sense. When you put it that way, it seems like a mutually assured destruction scenario: After Isildur, he was probably scared at the idea anyone buff enough to pull a fast one on him still existed.

Hell, he probably never got over being beaten by a fucking dog. Prophecy is serious shit in Middle Earth.

Wasn't there also a bit in the lore about how elves get weaker in the presence of ugliness/corruption/darkness, and stronger near sources of purity? Would make sense for a strategist like Sauron to make his home base really shitty to remove the home turf advantage from people he thought were near his level.