/who/ - Doctor Who General

Three Companions Edition

garbage:

Other urls found in this thread:

strawpoll.me/14222467
starburstmagazine.com/features/interviews/4597-interview-chris-chibnall-part-2-doctor-who-and-beyond
denofgeek.com/uk/tv/doctor-who/41135/doctor-who-lead-role-was-offered-to-a-black-actor-moffat-reveals
archive.4plebs.org/tv/search/tripcode/!QDsqcgReck/
twitter.com/SFWRedditGifs

reeeeeeeeeeee

Can I get a quick rundown on this cover?

>You have your fun and let other people have theirs.
sir your strawman is on fire

tripods are weapons
she is wearing her own clothes
the flower is shopped
there is going to be no war on this box

DON'T HYPE
Don't get hype for Chibnall
DON'T DO IT

Watch out for Chris 'Sex Gas' Chibnall
>Has never (never ever) written a genuinely good Doctor Who episode
>Lost the plot with Broadchurch after 1 season
>Ended every season of Broadchurch with an anticlimactic reveal disappointing millions of viewers
>Wrote all kinds of bullshit for early Torchwood (aka the bit of Torchwood that is bad)
>Was indirectly or otherwise responsible for Cyberwoman
>Only increased ep length by five minutes meaning they will still be rushed to fuck (and there will be two fewer of them)
>Is only known for half-assed "characterkino" that pales when compared to actually excellent writing
>Is stuffing Doctor Who with recurring characters in his first series because he only knows how to write one kind of show
>Will frontload the series with boring Earth/relationships drama because it's easier than writing a plot
>Is yet another dyed-in-the-wool fan nut type who is on video sperging about Pip and Jane as a young man
>Looks like a failed clone of RTD
>Didn't sort out not doing the christmas special, so Moffat had to suddenly dive in and stop the slot from being lost forever
>Drops huge announcements randomly at 10.30pm with no fanfare just because it makes Gareth Roberts happy
>Put an Ood in the loo
>Dissed JNT but is still recreating S19

Warn your friends!
Spread the word!
Add to the list!
And remember, DON'T HYPE THE CHIBBERS!

I don't know about that. RTD had several episodes where the doctor was God, but Moffat had over two entire series dedicated to it.

WORST DOCTOR POLL
strawpoll.me/14222467

>Not the first post from this IP
>Posted less than a minute after , so you can't be that user
>Could possibly be , defending RTD and carrying on the argument
>Could be Neo (although I severely doubt it)
>Could be FWWM spam user
>Could be the OP calling the last thread garbage

I'm betting OP.

In Moff who the doctor is immensely powerful and has a reputation.

In RTD who the doctor is carried up an elevator shaft by a group of angels and brought back from dear death via prayers.

me


not me

I'm the guy defending RTD and is not me

RTD til UTOPIA = fine
after UTOPIA = poo poo head

>Could be Neo (although I severely doubt it)
I disagree with nearly every point on there, I just haven't responded since it's pasta, people can search me through the archives and see me praise Broadchurch (including S2 specifically) if they want.

Yeah that's true. Like I sad my favorite nuwho series were 1 and 2. And yeah I know, farting aliens, but I don't mind severe camp if overall the series is entertaining.

respond to me with your points against it so we can see your thoughts but it doesn't actually encourage the pasta

le witchhunt faec :)

hbomberguy tl;dr

Moffat good for only single episodes
everytime he touches arc
he shits over it and is proved by DW, sherlock and Jekyll

>everytime he touches arc
>he shits over it and is proved by DW, sherlock and Jekyll
I think the biggest point is that moffat sets up grand arcs and fails to see them through leaving viewers with a really lackluster resolution if they get one at all. This is one of the most common complaints about series 6 and 7 by the way.

Moffat also spent his two series trying to critique the idea of the Doctor as a godlike entity of vengeance, and explain why it's counter to the functioning of the show, rather than unabashedly just prop it up. Hence why the Doctor fails to see the Pandorica coming at all and is completely BTFO by it. (The one ember of this in the Capaldi era is the "world president" episodes, in both of which he's visibly uncomfortable at being forced into the role, and it ends in disaster.)

Smith's era ended with the culmination of the fated war in which he was supposedly going to participate in as a beast of destruction, but he instead spent it doggedly protecting a small civilian town.

>hbomberguy
>mfw he's been exposed as covering for a harasser in his prod team and i will probably never have to hear about him during leftist discourse ever again

>he's been exposed as covering for a harasser in his prod team and i will probably never have to hear about him during leftist discourse ever again
source?

>implying that will actually shut him up

You can't cure stupid

Okay.

>Looks like a failed clone of RTD
Obviously meaningless.
>Didn't sort out not doing the christmas special, so Moffat had to suddenly dive in and stop the slot from being lost forever
That is fair, though I understand his reasoning.
>Was indirectly or otherwise responsible for Cyberwoman
Now this just demonstrates the poster has no idea what they're talking about - he was directly responsible for Cyberwoman, at least make your complaints have some coherency. He was the writer, and quite involved in Torchwood series 1 in general (he actually shadow showran series 2 as well). Yes, this is absolutely a knock against him. Make it, instead of a bunch of other points that make no sense.
>Wrote all kinds of bullshit for early Torchwood (aka the bit of Torchwood that is bad)
No, he wrote all kinds of stuff for series 2, much more acclaimed than series 1. This isn't hidden knowledge, the information is freely available. Again, there's little evidence of the poster actually being familiar with Chibnall's career on display.
>Dissed JNT but is still recreating S19
It was silly when Sandifer said this, and it's silly now. We know so little of S19 and it is the thinnest of superficialities to think S11 will honestly be like just because "the show has lore now, and three companions" (note they're not even called companions in the press release - potentially meaningless, but still).
>Drops huge announcements randomly at 10.30pm with no fanfare just because it makes Gareth Roberts happy
Again, nothing really to address here, the papers next day obviously covered it.
>Put an Ood in the loo
What is even the criticism here? Pond Life is well liked.
>Is yet another dyed-in-the-wool fan nut type who is on video sperging about Pip and Jane as a young man
Hardly, he's shown disinterest for the wilderness era and his entire career has focused on character over plot, let alone lore.

>leftist discourse ever again
fucking hate everything from him
but the Moffat exposé was 100% on point IMHO

>Lost the plot with Broadchurch after 1 season
Series 2 has many merits, although I respect that many disagree. Series 3 was again very acclaimed, both critically and in terms of ratings.
>Is stuffing Doctor Who with recurring characters in his first series because he only knows how to write one kind of show
RTD and Moffat both deployed their strengths as well, because that's how good writers work. Chibnall maps character-heavy storylines onto procedural style plots because that allows him to most effectively craft his type of stories.
>Has never (never ever) written a genuinely good Doctor Who episode
Obviously subjective, though I broadly agree he's never written a "great" one. However, he's not signed on to write an episode, he's signed on to run a show, and he has much more experience and success in that field.
>Will frontload the series with boring Earth/relationships drama because it's easier than writing a plot
Doctor Who is a television show. This over emphasis on plot is bizarre. A story is not comprised solely of plot, and there are hundreds of hours of Doctor Who plots already in existence. Concentrating on telling strong stories through techniques he's honed over his long and successful career is precisely what he should be doing, not writing arbitarily complicated plots just for the sake of it. Even writers like the Nolans demonstrate awareness they're writing in a medium with visuals and actors.

>Ended every season of Broadchurch with an anticlimactic reveal disappointing millions of viewers
Patently untrue, series 1's ending was hugely acclaimed, and series 3's was very well-received as well. The high ratings for each successive series' premiere display this.
>Is only known for half-assed "characterkino" that pales when compared to actually excellent writing
So subjective it's near impossible to respond to. Broadchurch works on many levels that have literally nothing to do with the characters; Chibnall has a strong sense of how to use weaponise the geography a show returns to often in story moments, and his focus on cinematography and general style (musical, visual, etc.) above the general BBC or ITV inhouse look shows this. The Chibnall "characterkino" thing is a /who/ meme that's deeply reductive, so twisting it into an insult is not even a worthwhile attack on him in the first place.
>Only increased ep length by five minutes meaning they will still be rushed to fuck (and there will be two fewer of them)
Fair criticism, although there's no indicator he'll follow the sort of pacing that will make it feel rushed.

Overall the post is very ignorant about Chibnall's actual career and style. There are many criticisms one can make against Chibnall...but this post isn't making them.

Some of my own thoughts on Chibnall's style are as follows

*he loves writing ensembles and will do his best to contort shows/episodes into being ensemble even if the premise doesn't really lend itself to that,

*he likes empathising with every character (that sounds trite but it's not a completely common thing, it's noticeable how he tries to humanise some truly despicable people in Broadchurch, and you can see it in eps like The Hungry Earth and Dinosaurs on a Spaceship too when he really doesn't seem to have that kind of authorial condemnation of unpleasant characters),

(more to come)

*he likes using procedural drama as a blueprint for stories (I'm sure this is part of why he worked on Law and Order UK), this is most obvious in how Broadchurch wears its influences on its sleeve and uses them as a sort of plot fallback (he's clearly more interested in characters than plots, see The Power of Three also, hence using very structured procedural-styled plots underneath so he can move to the stuff he's interested in more quickly) but you can see it in TW a lot too. I'm interested how his obviously huge fanboyism will clash with what seems to be his natural mode of storytelling (light on mythology+intricate plot, heavy on character)

Another thing about Chibnall I've noticed in interviews, and I think this might play into why it's taking so long for S11 to film, is that he's very particular about control. RTD wasn't like that, he was a pragmatic procrastinator with an enormous talent for creating successful TV. Moffat isn't like that, he's very keenly aware of how things change in planning stages to actual production, look at his comments about S6 and the 50th to see how aware of it he is. But Chibnall seems very firm about it. Not as a naive thing, but in that it's more important to him to have more control over the finished product, even if it comes at the expense of other things.

A few quotes

>The Beast Below is probably one of Steven’s best ever scripts, and the production of it was so not what was in the script. I remember watching that and thinking, ‘Oh,’ because it’s a really beautiful, operatic visual piece of writing. It’s bigger than The End of the World, but actually the way the visuals went, something wasn’t quite right on the production of that. The tone of it is odd as well, the tone of it is not the tone of the script. And tone is something that often goes unrecognised as a key component in things. I think it’s always fascinating.

>he was directly responsible for Cyberwoman

I was actually wishy-washy on that one because some people like the script of Cyberwoman and just hate the design, and I seem to remember hearing that the design wasn't what Chib had in mind.

I'm touched by how seriously people are taking this pasta though.

Look at his comments about the Silurian episodes here too starburstmagazine.com/features/interviews/4597-interview-chris-chibnall-part-2-doctor-who-and-beyond He is very stuck on the cuts and how the episode changed in prod and editing.

Look at how he's handled spoiler culture for Broadchurch and the rumours of how he's gonna handle DWSR too, he's very firm on trying to cultivate a certain experience for a show rather than how RTD would privilege press and marketing over story at times, and how Moff would retreat just to the more writing side of showrunner duties and pick his battles when it came to spoilers (see Simm reveal this year for example).

The big quote from Chibnall I find interesting on that matter is this

>But some of this is because I’m also a very hands-on executive producer from pre-production to tx, I’m involved in all the decisions, from design to casting to lighting to cuts to music. So on my own pieces now, like Broadchurch, I help deliver the show we’ve promised to make, that we intended to make. And that’s the hard bit, really. The biggest pitfall in television production is the gap between intention and execution. It’s a very strange and complex process and it has to be shepherded through very gently and delicately, but also with a degree of toughness. A million things can go wrong, from first idea to final edit, and most often they’re not anybody’s fault. Everybody’s trying as hard as they can, working as hard as they can.

(little bit more incoming)

> You can’t really judge things by whether people like them; it’s like what your intent is, and how far do you get to achieving your intent. It’s the hardest thing to do in TV, to achieve what you set out to achieve, and that’s why, for me, something like Dinosaurs works, because it delivers what we set out to deliver. Steven wanted a fast, funny blockbuster romp with incredible scale and we managed to do that. Then, you get The Power of Three which is entirely different: much more intimate in its intent but I also think it delivers what it promises: time with the Ponds, and an examination of their developing relationship with the Doctor and each other.

>And maybe that’s the thing about the first season of Torchwood, it doesn’t quite deliver what it’s trying to deliver, because we’re trying to work out what it is and how we do it on time and to budget, and it’s thirteen episodes from nothing.

>So that’s what you aim for, and I think for me, what I’m excited about and terrified about with Broadchurch, is I feel it’s very close to what I intended, and I don’t know whether people will like that

(of course, Broadchurch ended up being a huge success)

Jesus Christ, now that's a response.

tl;dr chibnall a shit

Not really, that was a pretty comprehensive defence (mostly) of him.

but muh Law and Order
with Davison and Freema?

torchwood is utter shit, like really really really shit, like I don't understand how it possibly got made shit. but I have to say i'm pretty hyped for jodie, and having a ensemble group of companions will be fun, that was the best part of S10. plus I expect bradley to be good.

hopefully his writing has gotten better over the years, I have not seen broadchurch.

We all know the ultimate hot take on Chibnall belongs to Mad Larry himself.

>not liking 11
larry a pleb

based

based

My biggest disagreement with Lawrence on this is the fact he thinks it will actually be unpopular just because it'll be mediocre/shit. As has been repeatedly demonstrated in the past, Doctor Who's popularity is not necessarily tied to its quality

because of teenagers squeeing for 10 and 11

Tennant husbandofags vs Whittaker waifufags

Truly, no matter who wins, we lose

Honestly I had more in mind the fact it was doing cancellation-tier ratings in S25-26

Tennant saved the show for his looks, it is a fact

Give Eccleston some credit

if he stayed

I think the biggest reason that people are so disappointed with Chibs is that in the RTD era, there was clearly only one person who could take over and that was Moffat due to how incredible and well-received his episodes were. With the Moff era, there hasn't been anyone to consistently be as good as Moffat was in the RTD era (maybe Mathieson but I don't think he's had any showrunning experience, and even then his episodes aren't as good as Moff's RTD eps).

Had Chibnall taken over from RTD, I don't think there would be nearly as much backlash.

Mathieson would never have been in contention for the role, people conflate writers and showrunners too much (you're clearly aware of the distinction though). Chibnall was as clear a successor as any in the showrunning department, given the frankly rather large amount of shows he's showran, and the fact his most recent one around the time Moff started making movements to bow out was very successful, but other names that would potentially have been thrown around would have been Toby Whithouse, Neil Cross, if they were looking outside of Who then maybe Howard Overman. I'm not sure about Gatiss, I don't know how he worked on Sherlock, though I can see if he really wanted the role (which he never seemed to) Moff and the BBC could have potentially ushered that in. My dream pick of Charlie Brooker wouldn't have been a serious one though, at that time in everyone's career. Chibnall was always a likely pick for next showrunner, but he's not as tangible a strong writer with showrunning experience as Moff was so yes, fans didn't latch onto him and identify him as the next showrunner the same way as Moff was to RTD (Moff did start having conversations with him about it quite some time ago, for what it's worth). It wasn't just that Moff was brilliant under RTD, it was that Moff was a brilliant writer who'd already ran multiple well-received shows.

I maintain that Series 7 was a secret audition for Neil Cross as the next showrunner if Chibnall didn't want it and Neil was willing to move.

Right, because series 2 RTD was in his prime.

I agree with everything you've said Neo. People just don't understand or don't want to understand Chibnall as a writer and showrunner. However, my biggest fear - and I voiced this last night - is that he will sacrifice lore and plot for the sake of characterization. The Power of Three might have come out as Chibnall desired, but that doesn't make it any less of a clusterfuck when it comes to plot and resolution. I'm optimistic and think Chibnall will do some fascinating things with the Doctor as a character and the Doctor/companion relationship, I just hope that it doesn't come at the expense of the destruction of suspension of disbelief.

I honestly think Whithouse would have done a good job too. I definitely prefer his episodes to Chibnalls.

I don't get it.

I think idle conversations might have been made around that, who knows. Cross did go above and beyond the typical work of a writer, with his s7 episodes (overseeing design choices, music, etc.)...but so did every writer in S7B, because Moff was overworked to high hell and simply wasn't available in the capacity to do his showrunning duties. I know Gaiman struggled with some of those non-writer duties with Nightmare in Silver. Gaiman is doing his first gig as showrunner with the Good Omens adaptation. If he ever sets his eyes on Who, I'm sure the BBC would love to have him, but I think it would be too long and tedious sort of work for him. I'd certainly love him to run even just a single series though. I really like Neil Gaiman.

That's true and a pretty reasonable fear, it's not something I care so much about personally but it is something that might happen yeah. The general public might kinda prefer that to the continuity-heavy last few series I suppose.
If it's any consolation, I doubt Chibnall will stick around as long as even RTD did. 3 series and done I reckon. A lot of older interviews see him talk about how he doesn't like to linger on things, and even on Broadchurch he stretched that out and didn't do it all in quick succession; he dragged his feet with some of it. I'm aware of the BBC deal with China and everything, and the comments from one of Chibnall's comments on a many-year relationship and all that, but I don't see it happening.

Larry is always right
>except the time he sucked a cock

>The Power of Three might have come out as Chibnall desired, but that doesn't make it any less of a clusterfuck when it comes to plot and resolution.
I'm very skeptical of this idea that Power of Three "sacrificed" a good plot for the sake of characterisation, I don't think that's really how it works. A good plot would embed the characterisation from the outset. What happened with Power of Three was the lack of a good fundamental plot idea, from the outset, to carry the desired Ponds' home life episode (also apparently the clusterfuck with Berkoff refusing to act resulting in heavy rewrites of the ending, but hey ho...)

christ you know a lot

>especially the time he sucked a cock

It was a BIG mistake casting an even younger and even quirkier actor after Tennant. Instead they should have cast an older more serious Doctor (i.e. Capaldi). In the 8+ years of Tennant/Smith the general audience got too used to the Doctor being a young romantic lead with ADHD. Tennant, Capaldi, Smith, Whittaker would have worked much better.

my sides

I think that was what Moffat initially had in mind, originally casting Capaldi as Eleven. There might have been some executive meddling though.

I beg your pardon?

I think that episode is an interesting litmus test of the sort of things you value in Doctor Who/TV, I know McGanon often identifies the extended, breezy comfy moments the books can afford in their more relaxed pacing as one of their best qualities, and I personally like that episode a lot because it's filled with a lot of such moments, before the plot kicks in at the ending and I'm reminded oh yeah, there's a plot. I understand why plot usually takes priority in this sort of television I for one would love to live in a world where it had less.
Pic related, one of the comfiest pure historicals with a focus on atmosphere and character interaction more than plot (fuck you C'rizz for having a shitty dark subplot throughout it and spoiling it from being 100% perfect).
There were a lot of rumours about Paterson Joseph and/or Chiwetel Ejiofor being 11/runners up to 11 back in the day. You might be interested in this
denofgeek.com/uk/tv/doctor-who/41135/doctor-who-lead-role-was-offered-to-a-black-actor-moffat-reveals

>The part has been offered to a black actor. But for various reasons, it didn’t work out.”
t. Moffat

...

He looks so upset.

*cucks, fags and betas
FTFY

Believe me, I'm ready for some less intense arc stuff too, and besides, that was Moff's schtick and I think Chibnall will to put his own branding on arcs, so I doubt we'll see something like that from him. Yeah, I don't think he'll stay very long either. It's not really his style to hang around for the better half of a decade.

While I agree, it's plain that the focus was on the relationships between the Doctor and his companions, particularly Amy. That's where the runtime was devoted, and those moments were really good, but it resulted in a rushed and terrible ending. The idea was awesome; a slow invasion is a really cool story, it just wasn't important to Chibnall as a writer.

that's cute you remember her opinions like that

>not including the oxford comma

I have a strong feeling the guy on the right is going to be particularly awful.

no he doesnt

fuck off prog

>George Capaldi
>GeorgeBaker
What did he mean by this?

I would watch an episode where the Doctor just had tea in the TARDIS with his friends for an hour. I don't place any value on elaborate sequences of events happening for their own sake. But The Power of Three fails for me personally because, after an opening 20 minutes of pleasant fun, it spends the latter 20 minutes on a plot which is boring and goes nowhere. The part at which it decides "well we have to be 'Doctor Who' now so let's do the 'Doctor Who' runaround" is the bit that I don't give two shits about.
It would be a better episode if it either made that second half work, or abandoned it altogether in favour of slice-of-life.

archive.4plebs.org/tv/search/tripcode/!QDsqcgReck/

lads it's actually prog what do

Does no one else think it's funny fucking prog has randomly returned and is getting on with Neo well? And that nobody has commented on it? It's weird to see different eras of /who/ clash (or not clash in that case) like that.

Prog? Where?

i mean neo is literally cloister 2.0 (right down to shipping and everything) so it makes some sense

Ha! Holy shit. Wow. I simply left off the last word of my trip, giving me the same one as prog. Oh well. Crucify me.

Our writing styles are obviously very different.

redpill us on what you think of neo and the other new trips

A likely story

TheOther is Prog? Am I missing something? Have I had the wrong idea about Prog lore for half a decade?

>prog last posted around the time the first episode of the luke newman fanfilm ft goth was shown

You know I have been around /who/ since 2013 right, I started using a trip this year but I've been off and on /who/ for years. Depends on your definition of new. Anywho...

I know that it's common to hate Clara and that I might be influenced by the way that JLC is ridiculously hot but Clara wasn't that awful.

She had some great little moments in series 8 and 9 and pic related is one of my favorite moments in any episode

Ohhh, I see.
Isn't it kind of a funny coincidence that you and prog had similar enough tripcodes for this to happen? What was the missing word?

>I know that it's common to hate Clara
it is?

The BBC will give Chibs and Whittaker at least 2 series. But I honestly can't see the show reaching series 13. Everybody I speak to, online,offline,old,young male and female are done with the show.

Clara hate is extremely, extremely exaggerated and a common tell of pleb/memepinions driven by irrationality. She's not actually a bad companion but it reached a point where even just showing her face on screen gave people more reasons to resent her.

unrelated but i appreciate how ontopic and indepth youve been this thread, is a certain lucky lady bringing out the best in you?
thank you for not spamming your forced memes and making me like chibnall a bit more. also your behind the scenes showrunner stuff was interesting.

Why do you think they'll cancel the show instead of just retooling it again?

Don't know what that'll prove, but they're alright. As long as they contribute to the discussion then I don't care too much. I think McGanon and Neo are very friendly. I haven't interacted with the others much.

You can look at the recent threads with my actual trip and see it's true.

I started coming to /who/ right round leak time. Only been using this trip for around a year.

It is. Come now user, I can't give away half of my identity just like that.

Dad doesn't support of a nurse who or Chase companion

Ha, same. Except I'm not autistic, so I don't trip except when it's relevant.

You're very vavavori welcome ;)

Not who you're talking to, but I'm going to quote McGanon's very favourite author Lance Parkin and say:
>Doctor who might change, but won’t ever die

>very favourite author

>except when it's relevant.
When has it been relevant for you, user?

Anyone fancy watching something in the stream?

Please god yes, I feel like I'm going insane in here.

TheOther is N8 guys, he just started editing the wiki again and is being coy about his identity.

Clara is literally the best companion.

Some people were just so mad over the ending of Name Of The Doctor that it ruined the rest of the character for them.