You have been tasked with writing a story about the Red Skull reforming and becoming a hero (or anti-hero). The decision should be organic, and not the result of a plot device like the Inversion wave.
What would you write?
Hard Mode: You cannot have him kill any/all the legacy and/or diverse heroes, or make it so that everyone realizes that he was right all along
haha no
A disciple of the Red Skull runs for President of the United States and wins. After he inevitably gets outed as someone who's in contact with the Red Skull, the Avengers and Cap especially are terrified to see that the majority of the country still supports him despite who he's friends with because of general improvements under his presidency, and they have to grapple with the idea of whether or not it's "right" to "save" citizens from people they themselves elected and approved of. Especially Cap, who has to come to terms with the idea that using force to violently overthrow Schmidt's colleague, an elected leader, means compromising all of his ideals and living the hypocrisy that what he's doing is alright because of who he's doing it too despite it being the same thing done by people he fights against.
Then, to restore the status quo Red Skull goes full fascist and ruins the reputation and general regards for the President because of his extremism, and we as readers are expected to disagree with his beliefs on the basis of the methods he uses to achieve them. Essentially all the good shit he says and does that everyone agrees with is a ploy to garner support and then is swapped out with full on dictatorship/global conquest stuff.
its a one page elseworlds type thing where he gets hit with magic that forces perfect self realization like when Luthor got supermans powers and perceived creation in totality and had a mental breakdown
he understands everything he has ever done with a total sense of empathy and understanding of action and consequence
he says "Oh.", turns off the doomsday weapon and instantly breaks his own neck
the last panel is a small brass plaque in his memory at a war memorial
But Red Skull is already a hero.
>Red skull's views remain exactly the same but he gets better PR, disassociates himself from the fucking nazis and dials back his extremism to a moderate level of discourse
>people unwittingly realize they actually agreed with him the whole time, they just couldn't justify supporting his views because of his methods
>red skull becomes a "hero" because the public now perceives him as one
Red skull leads a separatist movements in Quebec, catalonia, and Scotland and offers asylum to all Europeans against the rapefugees, instead of a global empire he becomes a central figure to separatist movements all over the world,
>Red Skull sitting in at the UN everyone awkwardly staring at him
Red Skull teams up with an Alien Empire to conquer Earth with him as World Leader in part of their Empire. Creates a foolproof plan. They decide to cut him out of the deal. He's secretly the contingency that can throw a wrench in this since he's a dick like that. This was just a small portion of the empire that then sent out a message to the other branches labeling Earth and Red Skull as a target. He begins tracing the messages to the branches to destroy them to stop them from conquering Earth so that he may do so himself. He also incidentally saves the different conquered Planets and systems of the Empire becoming a hero of sorts around the Galaxy who are unaware of Earth's politics or history.
Red Skull has a few bittersweet moments of being able to hang out with people that don't know he used to be Hitler's Left Hand Man.
Sup Forums threads like this are so fucking lazy.
OP put a stipulation to keep plots from getting too politically radical. what more do you want?
>What would you write?
Skull, gets into an argument with Baron Zemo (who is trying to kill him) about his particular functions of belief, Zemo tricks him into arguing against several basic tenants of National Socialism.
Basically revealing that Skull at heart, is a stooge, a follower. That he only believed in Nazism because Hitler drilled it into him. So, he disguises himself as a New Superhero and tries to join the Avengers (or maybe, if we really want to go nuts, The Champions).
Johann has a plan, he is going to find out if he truly is a mere political cipher or not by placing himself as deeply into the absolute antithesis of his entire belief system.
In the end, he's revealed. And tries to turn it into another plan to TAKE OVER THE WORLD, because in the end, whether Zemo is right, Johann is afraid to change.
after losing everything to Hydra-Ca; his reputation, his followers, even his Xavier brain, Red Skull is a fugitive on the run
He hires some Z list fodder to act as meat shields as he tries to find sanctuary but Rogers already knows the location of all his secret bunkers and has beaten him to them, so he end up squatting in an abandoned European manor.
With no money with which to hatch new plans and no one worth a damn willing to do him any favors, he gets a new outfit and persona, Red Masque (Themed after the Poe story Masque of the Red Death) and resorts to selling the services of him and his gaggle of Z listers as a mercantile band. in the mean time he has to train and teach them so they don't get his ass killed.
He constantly grumbles about getting revenge and hatching his next big scheme but he's too busy working their butts off just to make ends meet so its never anything but talk.
Since he doesn't want anyone catching wind of him he avoid anything too villainous so sticks to morally neutral and good jobs, and ends up building an actually good reputation.
The big turning point is when they uncover and end up thwarting a secret society not unlike those Red has led in the past. There's an obligatory scene where he defeats the big bad in 1v1 combat then reveals 'I wear no mask" so the guy dies knowing he was up against Red Skull and not just some random bozo. The way the the guy loses all hope of survival at that makes Red realize it's just not as exciting if you're not the underdog, and that he's been coasting off his reputation for too long while his enemies have been going up against weird shit from out of space and out of time and truly testing themself.
After that he goes and hunts down various significant figures from Marvel's history to get a better idea of what the Avengers have fought and done, and he evolves from a fascist who wants to rule the world to an Earthling supremacist who wants to see us at the op of the cosmic food chain
also, three words regarding that 'earthling supremacist' angle
latent. psionic. potential.
Oh the irony on all the levels.
He pulls an Osborn. Kill the leader of an invasion where plenty of Marvel citizens can see it and conveniently forget he's a villain to praise him for doing what the heroes won't. Because Marvel citizens are so stupid it's a wonder they remember to breathe.
Well you have to downplay the Nazi thing since you can't sell Nazis as good guys. You can retcon it like the movie did, that he was running his own operation within Nazi territories and basically using the Nazis to fund his own ultimate plan. He viewed them as useful idiots, in other words, and didn't approve of their ideology or methods. Maybe he even secretly helped Jewish scientists escape the Nazis.. not just to be nice.. but to further his own scientific research. He is angered by petty bureaucrats and small-minded politicians, perhaps give him a backstory explaining this with his own family being persecuted.. In the modern day, he builds up a grassroots movement in small towns (like Springfield of GI Joe fame) attracting people from alll races and all walks of life. He has his own ideology, like communism or fascism, which promises a better life, and uses language of liberation, workers controlling their own factories. Make it ambiguous enough that it's not entirely clear if he's bad, and common citizens give reasonable explanations for why they follow him. He justifies his time in WWII as acting for the greater good, just like the US acted with the USSR for the greater good, or Cap sometimes made hard moral choices for the greater good.
New Spymaster for SHIELD, realizing that he's less about ideologies and more about finding a good challenge. Series ends with him deciding to go cosmic with his Maschievellan campaigns
You got that right user, if you took their collective IQ and multiplied it by a hundred you may just have enough intelligence to tie your shoe, if you don't drool all over yourself first.
So aside from Dark Reign, what are other examples of Marvel Citizens being dumb?
>No one but Harlan Ellison ever brings up the Destiny Force again
>Mutants are all "We the future. We better than humanity"
Well, he's literally a Nazi or a basically-a-Nazi depending on the continuity. He has a history of being a brutal monster. His arch-foe is one of the most well-loved and respected heroes of all time.
You could either give him someone evil for himself to fight-a mutant/Inhuman/Kree/robot/whatever supremacist so he can be a mouthpiece for HUMANITY STRONK.
An interesting change would be for him to create a big artificial island from Hydra/AIM technology and fill it with WMDs. Have him create his own nation with football and hookers. It doesn't want to invade anything. It doesn't want to genocide anyone. It just wants to be a whites only paradise.
It's Red Skull fighting Captain America in the marketplace of ideas. If Cap does anything he'll be the aggressor, he'll be the one throwing the first punch. And all the while he's building up a powerful nation of super humans.
OOC as fuck.
He gets punched so hard by Cap that he goes into a coma and falls into the Arctic Ocean. Red Skull wakes up eighty years later, in a hospital bed with a wiener roast playing on the radio. The nurse who comes in has a Hitler mustache on her face, and salutes Red Skull. Red Skull attacks the nurse, and says he was at that wiener roast. Red Skull runs out into the street and finds that everyone has Hitler mustaches, and that the world is a Nazi paradise. From there it's about Red Skull's kooky adventures, trying to hold down a job in a world where everyone is a Nazi and he has no real purpose left, until he realizes that all he really wants is to wage war and destruction, so he goes and finds a small enclave of Jews, and becomes their Red Skull, sworn enemy of the Nazis and dedicated to doing mitzvahs all around the world, and battling the forces of Adonald Trumpler DCLXVI.
He fights globalists, simple.
Original Thunderbolts had to be the Marvel Universe's most absolutely unanimously beloved Supehero Teams. Mostly because they took over for the missing Avengers and other classic super teams in the wake of Heroes Reborn.
With the exception of one member, they were all Supervillains. Lead by an honest to god Nazi.
Professor Xavier takes his goddamned brain back, and Skull's body with it.
This doesn't do a damn thing to make Skull heroic mind, but it does allow us at least one Panel of Charles in Johann's body going "To me my X-Men!'
Difficult to do this and not accidentally end up with a story that would work (or has already worked) better for Zemo
The Red Skull accidentally unleashes a threat that puts everything, including his own goals at jeopardy
He joins forces with the heroes to stop it.
While working alongside other heroes he grows to respect them, and is inspired to pursue his goals in a different way, like convincing people by being an example
We've got to kill these mutie scum before they wipe us out!"
"Yeah! And hey, what about those other super powered people who aren't mutants, Captain America, Spider-man, etc.?"
"Oh, uh, they're cool leave them alone."
"But literally what is the difference?"
"Well they got their powers through an experiment or accident, not through birth. It coulda happened to any of us.."
"But.. Aren't they more at fault for having the powers? And how do we tell mutants from other super powered people?"
"Uh, usually the mutants put X in front of their name. If it's something like X-Men, X-Force, X-Factor, you're good to go,"
"Handy of them.."
"Yeah.. look no offense but I don't think this is gonna work out. We're more the angry mob type and you're more the asking questions type. No hard feelings. Now, the rest of you, grab your torches and pitchforks so we can brutally persecute these people who are infinitely more powerful than us!"
He accidentally saves a Rhabbi from being killed by nazi thugs. Tries to make it clear that it was an accident but the Rhabbi didn't listen, adresses to him as a hero in the synagogue. One guy at the Synagogue recognizes him and tries to expose him, but nobody believes him. So he becomes a villian which relies on jewish magic and has tries to remove him.
great job Sup Forums, really creative thread you've got going here. I don't think I've ever seen an OP with the subject "Red Skull is a good guy"
America falls under control of a communist/socialist villian who controls the entirety of America with mass media and entertainment into falling into a marxist state where everyone is treated equally and not given any rights. The lack of individualism and exceptionalism angers Red Skull and how the villain taunts him into controlling america into his vision that the Red Skull could never do with his fascism.
Anyone who deviates from the communist line of thinking are killed off or sent to be brainwashed into falling in line. The Red Skull and Captain America are forced to work together knowing that neither of them wants a communist state like this as Captain America brings together other genders and races heroes into a ragtag band of rebels. They beat the villian and restores America's democracy and Captain America tells Red Skull that if he wasn't deep into fascism, he could have applied his strength into helping his fellow men. The Red Skulls learns from this and sees that maybe being a white supremacist isnt such a good idea and there are other better ways of conquering America and leaves Captain America , wishing him the best his failed democratic system can bring as he has a better plan.
This
But he already is
The Red Skull sees the persecution of the white race by the forced diversity of American society and resolves to form a utopian civilization for his followers to finally be free from all diversity.
Once this isolated community is built far away from anyone's prying eyes he sets out to destroy the diversity that has infected even his own white followers, first the sick and weak and different are removed so that the population is made of only the strong. Next work is provided to everyone, so as to make use of every ounce of utility these followers have. The old and young will either match the workload of the strong or perish and make way for others.
Of course, even then there would be unwelcomed diversity to torment his white followers: gender diversity. A second camp would have to be constructed and strict division will be maintained from then on.
Next Red Skull would stop the scourge of the diversity of personal identity, all clothes will be uniform in style and color, all hair will be shaved off, there will be no diversity of appearance tolerated.
Mind you, there may still be diversity of appearance in girth, food rations will have to be strictly limited so as to foster less diversity of weight. Next there is diversity of musical tastes, so loudspeakers will broadcast the greatest of German classical music nonstop to feed the soul as the workers labor to remove all the bodies.
The heroic effort to bring the white race to a world free from all diversity he finally saves the world from this threat. The end.
He rounds up a bunch of Jews, gypsies, and homosexuals and kills them with poison gas then cremates them en masse in industrial ovens
Bits and pieces of Charles Xavier's personality begin to leak into Red skulls consciousness, so Red Skull decides to help the German people restore their Spirit. So he becomes the German nationalist superhero who fights against Muslim pedophile rings.Also he gets a paraplegic girlfriend.
He'd be the rejected one nobody ever wants help from... rejecting his past..rejecting his old beliefs, or maybe just straight up brain wash. He'd show up to help and they'd be like "GTFO OF HERE"
Didn't that already happen in one of the secret wars tie in where he was throw behind the wall because he revolted against Doom?
Red Skull meets somebody like Daryl Davis, a black man who has persuaded 25 men to leave the Ku Klux Klan just by talking to them.
This character gradually persuades Red Skull to abandon Nazism.
Sublime
I kind of like this idea but have it be a combo of this but as a base on the moon or an asteroid (I know not that original). And as he's about to launch an attack on the earth the alien empire beats him to the punch. So whether he likes it or not he becomes the Earth's savoir instead of it's conqueror. Just by happen stance and has to work with other powers or all is lost. Think ID4 aliens.
>Pic Related is what I'm thinking what Red Skulls forces could look like.
...
>americans trying to write nazi characters
like a fundamentalist trying to write about satan
>You have been tasked with writing a story about the Red Skull reforming and becoming a hero (or anti-hero).
But he already is. He fights the US Empire.
Earth pushes into space exploration en mass and starts encountering aliens culture-to-culture rather than individual-to-individual. Skull redirects his supremacist views toward human supremacy, which everyone is for the most part okay with since aliens are, by and large, assholes.
He is already a hero.
>Funny, isn't it?
No mister Marvel employee, I will not do your job for your without being paid as assistant.
Fuck, that's good.
Kek
Would be interesting at first. Of course, like Magneto, one or more of his own people will backstab him for power or other reasons.
All of Civil War. Sentinels still considered a good thing after multiple rampages. Hating Spiderman no matter how many people he's saved. Not recognizing certain villains by now even when they've been dangerous enough to wreck cities and immediately getting the hell out of dodge. Living in New York near any of the superhero buildimgs and complaining about it.
Easy have him work for trump. At first he shares the same views but then he finds out trump is doing it all for the money and has no strong beliefs in his views. Skull assassinates trump the country would love him.
I question the sanity of the obviously retarded company exec who handed this order down then request to be transferred to another book.
You know how in X-Men Legacy Skull controls comatose people? He does that, but due to some psychic hijinks Skull gets stuck in the body of a comatose, minority kid. Through the arc he learns empathy as he interacts with the kids family, friends and society around him. I call it "The Inferior Red Skull"!
>First issue: the post-war europe. Johann Shmidt escapes both Soviets and Americans. Eventually fights the "first" Captain America, Steve Rogers. In a fateful showdown on alps Skull emerges victorious and discovers the truth behind Captain America.
>Issues 2-5: Murky intrigue. Skull is still on the run, but as the fires of world war slowly fade away he finds out that both sides of former allies want to recruit him. Morally grey secret agent action, ends with Skull stationed in south america.
>Issues 5-6: Schmidt tries to lay low and build a civilian life, but is drawn into politics by his former compatriots. Eventually discovers that they have become thralls of U.S.A and as the political situation heats up, Shmidt is forced to become Red Skull again when Captain America arrives to defend U.S intrests in area.
>Issues 7-10: The Glory days. Red skull is a global menace, public enemy number one, mastermind who evades both Americans and Communists as he tries to foil the sinister palns they have for whole world. This would be analoguos to the post-war red skull and hydra business. In this time Captain America becomes major "hero", hailed by media as the penultimate american.
>Issues11-13: Modern era. After the soviet union falls, america is left as the sole superpower on earth. Contains the final fateful showdown between Captain America and Red skull, one where the secret that skull has carried for years is revealed to greater public. That Captain America's supposed supersoldier serum actually wears its user out, resulting in death in few months, that there has been countless Captain over years and that "Captain" is just an empty hero, designed by the forces that have directed USA goverment since the world war I for dual purpose: To strongarm their secret goals, to inspire unity in increasingly multicultural america and lead the society to the direction that benefits the leaders of this patchwork.
lol, gold!
Kree and Skrull are at war, and kree refugees are allowed on earth. Red skull leads his rouge faction against the refugees entering, and kills any who enters his land. Turns out there was no war, and it was a second Skrull invasion. Yada Yada
Just have him go all Uberman.
That's it.
But he is already a hero.
Why? Zero already exists. Skull should be a villain. He can be a compelling villain. The best update I would do is having him abandon the trappings of National Socialism, saying something like 'I don't carry the banner of lost causes.'
Instead Skull should 'embrace' America. He would still tend to believe in nationalism.
There is no reason he CAN'T love the USA and be a villain. The biggest trap to avoid would have him be lol conservatism.
So President Lex redux.
Every middle eastern country is going to be overjoyed. Least Israel friendly president. Asia won't give a fuck. Basically Europe, Australia, Africa, and Latin America. The countries the NAZi's fucked up in WII.
What's a lol conservatism and how do you become one?
meant zemo
>Latin America
Literally a post-nazi paradise.
You know, 'conservatives are all closet racists' or 'conservatives are really 'cowardly, cynical, and easily manipulated.'
Kinda like how every normal in the MU is sharing one brain cell. 'grr gene trash, we hate mutants.' Really, why do you hate them? I it because they regularly demolish cities in slap fights? Is it because they call themselves racist terms like homo superior? 'No, I just don't like that they're different, hurumph."
Yeah, because of the unbelievable corruption. A nationalist skull would shut down immigration. Latin American countries need that as a valve for the millions of their citizens they cannot care for.
While we're having a semi-related thread, anyone know where this picture is from or the context? Google's being useless.
You sure it wasn't because Peron, Pinochet and others just thought nazis were aiight?
They thought Nazi gold was aight. But I was talking about how a President Skull at the UN would play. Latin America needs illegal immigration to the US. Otherwise there are millions of starving, dissatisfied brown people realizing el guapo isn't all that great.
During a Skrull invasion , Red Skull slowly learns an awful truth...
You can be divided and perish, or, you can unite and kills some *insert racist term for Skrulls here*
Ridgers?
Grinches?
Frog-faces?
>make it so that everyone realizes that he was right all along
Mark Waid wrote a story like that that didn't get published for a long time.
Alien/Demon/Extradimensional invasion
Red Skull forced into action to protect planet alongside everybody else
Shit goes sour, and lots of heroes are incapacitated, forcing Red Skull to take up a leadership role
Makes good combat decisions
Utilizes secret nazi tech to aid in battle
Ends with a heroic sacrifice
Red Skull inexplicably comes back months later with no knowledge of this and returns to his former self