Be honest: Is he a Villain Mary Sue?

Be honest: Is he a Villain Mary Sue?

Yes, since the panther god said "Doom can do no wrong".

>Doom
>Villain

>villain
user pls

Yes, villain.

The fact that people don't know if he is a villain anymore is evidence of his Mary Suenysm.

Can you be a Mary Sue if you lose a lot ???

>The fact that people don't know if he is a villain anymore is evidence of his Mary Suenysm.

Finally starts to cut through the fake news and gets attacked for being right all the time.

Only in the worst of the post-Kirby fan fictions, that's a problem across the entire line though.

Well, sort of?

Doom doesn't get to take over the world, or destroy that infernal Richards guy once and for all, but there are qualities to his character that can be interpreted as very insufferable in parallels to Mary Sue-isms:

Often the writing cheaps out with his defeat revealing that the heroes just kicked the shit out of a Doombot or something similar. Sometimes he even plays the diplomatic immunity card to get out of trouble.

His entire shtick is that he's both a capable super scientist AND a gifted magician to where he could give Dr. Strange a run for his money over the Sorcerer Supreme title. A hero character with these qualities would be hated.

He's a dictator of his home country but is apparently a 'good' dictator as far as the welfare of his people are concerned?


And there are alternate realities where Earth can only be at peace if Dr. Doom is controlling it.

He's lost to Squirrel Girl and Luke Cage, so no.

So Namor is a Sue? And Lex? And Magneto? Emma, Black Adam, Kingpin, Sabretooth, Deadpool, Foolkiller, Rogue, Hawkeye, Black Widow, Scarlet Witch, Quicksilver, Red Hood, Bizzaro, and Venom? Villains become anti-heroes all the time.

The "it was actually a Doombot" is the worst part. It cements the idea that Doom can do no wrong, and if he does, then it wasn't really him.

Thanos has the same problem.

There's a two issue Master of Kung Fu story where Doom uses a small army of robots including a doombot-just to fuck with Shang Chi.

As far as morality and actions go, the characters that best compare with Doom are Black Adam and Sinestro, and they are at least anti-villains, but villains nonetheless.

But the writers never go out of their way to say how a life under Adam's or Sinestro's regime would be the best life possible.

I think you need to cross reference the definition a few times user. People who think Doom is annoying or too campy will be quick to say yes.

Did he do it because he was upset that he isn't second best at martial arts and wanted to prove that they were stupid and he doesn't need them anyway? Because that sounds like something Doom would do.

Yeah, but there also people who suck Doom cock and find him the most complex character ever invented, and they will deny his flaws. These two groups will cancel each other, I hope.

He does it because he is butflustered that he couldn't start shit with Chi's dad. It's very Doomlike in that he declares victory in the end.

What defines him as "villain" when Marvel has long since abandoned the black-hat/white-hat dichotomy?
He writes his own rules. Does what he has to. Works on a higher level than everyone else.
There's all sorts of evil shit Marvel's "heroes" have done in the name of something or other, why is the line drawn between their destructive actions and his?

>He writes his own rules. Does what he has to. Works on a higher level than everyone else.
You're describing a fucking Mary Sue, user.

I don't care if he is or isn't.

I LOVE him. L O V E

Yes.

Granted, but does that equate to villainy?
It seems like a pretty good exception that should negate any villain status.
It works for Lex Luthor.

What makes him a villain is being in direct conflict with those generally labeled as heroes. I know if you what to get nit picky about specifics that they 'want the same things'. But when you take everything at face value fighting heroes, being ugly and talking mean =s badguy.

>And there are alternate realities where Earth can only be at peace if Dr. Doom is controlling it.

Oh, no. Not at all. He basically does his best to Omales his domain in such a way that he'll always be needed. Or he gets bored with having won and abandons those in his care in search of new challenges.

>It seems like a pretty good exception that should negate any villain status.
I don't see why being a villain and being a Mary Sue should be mutually exclusive.

The same arguments that apply to "Doom is not a villain" could be applied to Red Skull just as well.

He wasn't originally, but at this point he has definitely become one.

what atrocious dialogue

Bullshit.

What makes Thanos a villain? What makes Apocalypse a villain? What makes every villain a villain?

"He wants the best" is a bullshit excuse. If we could relativize the "how", then we could also relativize the "why", and in this case Captain America is no better than Red Skull.

How the hell so?
Evil Nazi bastard archetypes are always saying that they're better than everyone, but in the end that's just self-delusion.
Doom's Mary Sue is pure, he actually can do the stuff he sets his mind to, he's actually better than most of the heroes he goes up against on multiple levels.
The only reason he hasn't conquered the planet is because he did already and decided it's not what he wanted after all.

>How the hell so?
>Evil Nazi bastard archetypes are always saying that they're better than everyone, but in the end that's just self-delusion.
The fuck?

What defines a villain is not the bravado, are the actions. Doom is a dictator that killed people one thousand times out of pure pettiness. This alone makes him a villain already.

>The only reason he hasn't conquered the planet is because he did already and decided it's not what he wanted after all.
What a Mary Sue!

Doom pls live

No

People in universe hate him and are not portrayed as wrong or evil for doing so

And he fails to get what he wants

It's fine if it's a villain.

>Kingpin
Wait, what?

I'll admit that I haven't read his new ongoing or the mini that leads into it (because fuck paying $5 for the first issue of a three issue mini), but apparently he's reforming in it.

>People incuniverse hate him and are not portrayed as wrong or evil for doing so
But GODS in-universe suck his balls and say that his fucked regime is the one true path to success.

And the whole thing about being capable of doing anything that science allows, because he is a scientist without equal.

And also the whole thing about being capable of doing anything that magic allows, because he is a sorcerer without equal.

And also his time machine, capable of doing anything that he can't do through science or magic.

And the Doombots excuse, if he happens to fail.

And his diplomatic immunity, the perfect SHIELD for any eventual fuck up.

You get it.

>And he fails to get what he wants
According to some fans and writers, just AFTER he had conquered what he wanted.

What defines a villain is not the death-toll.
Honestly, how many people has Wolverine Franked in his heroic career?
I seem to remember that Thor has Franked one or two warriors over the eons.
And let's not forget The Punisher.

It's not killing people that makes someone a villain.

Fisk is a Mary Sue because he always gets away with his crimes, or at the very least survives when anyone else would have died.
Even The Punisher hasn't been able to take him down.
And they always write it as somehow being his criminal genius that lets him get away with it all.

Can the mods seriously perma-b& Reed Richards from constantly making shitposting threads about Doom?

seems realistic to me.

>It's not killing people that makes someone a villain.
I didn't say it was. I said the actions.

And there's a great difference between the examples you gave and "I will kill this person because he was chosen to wield that power, and not me when I was the most qualified, according to myself", like Doom did in "The End".

If you kill because of a bullshit motive like this, then you're a villain, and it should have taken more than a Deus Ex Machina saying "he is actually not a villain" to convince someone otherwise.

>Recent comic
>Doom gets his ass handed to him
>Writer even adds a line of dialogue to the heroes saying "wow i can't believe we defeated the REAL Dr.Doom and NOT a DOOMBOT."
>Months later new writer says it was a doombot.

Him and Magneto are the best Marvel villains... Norman Osborne is an overrated Lex Luthor ripoff now who is an Avengers villain

>Kirby-era Doom

Petty gypsy monarch. Is foiled several times by his own ego. Gladly uses his subjects for target practice for his robot army knowing that they won't fight back because he's crushed their spirits so thoroughly and believes it is an honor to die for Doom. Ben Grimm whoops his ass so hard that his will is crushed and he slinks away in shame and silence, not wanting to admit that a Brooklyn brusier with 1/100th his IQ spanked him like a child.

>Post-Kirby Doom

Conquered the world and gave it back after showing the Purple Man he has a will greater than the rest of the Earth. Panther God says he's the big dick hope for the future. "All hope lies with Doom". He's supposed to be legitimately good for Latveria. Saves the multiverse by making the hard decisions the heroes couldn't do, kills all the Beyonders because GOD DOOM STRONK.

Writers have ridden his iron clad dick so hard since Kirby left the book. My theory is that he is the expression of the political left's desire to have a benevolent government daddy rule and take care of them. They know its bad to suck dictator dick, so they have him be a "bad guy" to sublimate their desire.

>What a Mary Sue!

And don't forget he killed the Beyonders.

And saved the Multiverse.

And got a god to admit he was humanity's last best hope.

And convinced the Sorcerer Supreme to let him reshape reality in his own image.

And if anyone ever writes him losing his dick riders can just go "lol it was a doom bot bro it didn't count".

I don't think Mary Sue is the best name for Doom. He's a writer's pet character.

Why don't people use pet character instead of Mary Sue? It's such a better term.

>D belt
Is that new? It's nice.