Detective Comics #951 Storytime

League of Shadows part one!

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cbr.com/interview-james-tynion-iv-detective-comics-batman-watchmen/
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All I want to see is Shiva beat the hell out of Batman and then Cass barely beat Shiva.

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Posting a Tynion interview about this issue:
>CBR: There is a line in “Detective Comics” #950 when Tim asks Bruce quite bluntly, “Why are you preparing for a war?” Is he talking about events coming in the “League of Shadows” arc, or something bigger — perhaps involving Mr. Oz and a certain button with a smiley face and blood splatter on it?

>James Tynion IV: There are all of these very dark things on the horizon that Batman sees coming. I can’t really hint what those things are, but I will say that it’s not just what’s coming in the pages of “Detective Comics.” This is what’s coming across the entire DC Universe.

>Orphan, Spoiler, Clayface even Batwoman are all broken or at least have relationship issues that are severely strained. When building an army for this coming war, why does Batman decide to surround himself with broken soldiers?

>When I was choosing the members for his team, I thought Batman was very much about choosing people who he sees elements of himself in. Those are the people that he trusts. Gotham is a dark place, and a lot of bad things have happened to a lot of these Gotham characters. Each one of them represents a different aspect of Batman, and there is no character that represents that more than the original Robin. They each have a core piece of tragedy or pathos in them that they share. That’s why they were able to form such a powerful relationship.

>With Batwoman, Spoiler, Orphan, and even Azrael and Batwing, all of these characters have the drive that comes from overcompensating from a point, which is what Batman is. At the end of the day, Batman is an overcompensation. He’s what happens when the worst thing in the world happens to you. You can either collapse in the face of that, or you can build yourself into the perfect being in order to prevent that from ever happening again. Each of these people is doing that in different ways and is currently on different steps in the path.


>When you look at a character like Clayface, he had something horrible happen to him and that horrible thing made everyone see him as a monster and then he allowed himself to become a monster. And Batman recognized this. At this moment, Batman is at an even higher point of awareness and he needs to see that people can overcome these parts of themselves for reasons… for reasons that I can’t share just yet. [Laughs]

>Let’s leave the Watchmen and those who will be watching the Watchmen behind for now. No spoilers here, because she’s featured on the cover of “Detective Comics” #951, but Shiva is back in Gotham and she appears to be connected to Cassandra Cain. This is DC Rebirth, so things might be different, but pre-Rebirth, Shiva was Cassandra’s mother. Is that still the case?

>You’re right. You saw in “Detective Comics” #950 that Shiva still has some designs on Cassandra. In the current continuity, those two characters have not shown up together yet. You guys are going to have to go along for the ride, but you’re right — in classic DCU continuity, Shiva was Cassandra’s mother. This is the story that will answer the question of whether or not that is currently true, and what that means to Orphan if it is true.

>What we know about the League of Shadows so far is that it was basically a myth that Ra’s al Ghul propagated. It was conceived as an idea that would let him take credit for terrorist attacks all over the world and all of these other things. He hinted that it was this shadowy cabal, which allowed him total control. It’s something Batman has gone out and searched for and, to his knowledge, he has no proof that the League actually exists. So when the Colony came in during my first arc, “Rise of the Batmen,” to eliminate these sleepers, Batman saw it as Jacob Kane basically buying into a conspiracy in order to enact his dark agenda. And we’re going to discover exactly who’s been right and who’s been wrong and how all of these characters connect to one another. But the League of Shadows is an independent group of the League of Assassins, and we’re going to slowly understand more and more exactly how dangerous they are, and how they’ve they operating from the outside in the DC Universe.

>King's Batman
>too slow to dodge knife from little girl and armor didn't protect him
>Tynion's Batman
>too slow to dodge bullet from random policeman and armor didn't protect him
What the hell is that shit nowdays? Batman is a jobber now?

>If we go by the solicitations, it appears that Batman and Ra’s may be joining forces in this arc. Is this a case of the enemy of my enemy is my friend?

>[Laughs] We’ll definitely see them interacting. I don’t want to tip my hand just yet. The relationship between Ra’s and Batman is one of the most interesting relationships between any nemesis and hero in all of comics. Ra’s is a character that I have been fascinated by since I first started writing so bringing him into this story and exploring the ways in which he is connected to the League of Shadows and the ways in which he isn’t is a lot if fun. I can’t go into specifics just yet but he will definitely play a very major part as the story reaches its climax.

>Again, you mentioned Jacob Kane and he is, of course, the father of Kate Kane. Now that you are writing a new “Batwoman” series with Marguerite Bennett, will Kate be leaving “Detective Comics”?

>No, she will absolutely be a part of both series. Kate’s day job is working with the Batman Family in “Detective Comics,” and her own private missions that take her all over the world in between her missions in “Detective” are what will be covered in the “Batwoman” series. “Detective” will remain a fairly Gotham-centric book, while “Batwoman” will be very global in its scope.

>I think Kate Kane is one of the most fascinating characters in the DC Universe. I love how she plays on the core Batman mythos, but she also has some very big differences right in the heart> of the character. Batman’s parents were killed when he was just a kid and then he set out to become the perfect thing to fight that specific crime. He set out across the world to train and build himself to this point where he is the Batman – this real force of nature.

>A similar thing happened to Kate. Her mother was killed and she believed at the time that her sister was killed, as well, and she started building herself to become the perfect soldier to fight the kind of terror that killed her parent. But the thing that’s different in her character is that there came a point where she was about to achieve what she wanted to achieve. She was about to graduate from West Point and actually become a real soldier and she would have been one of the best soldiers of all-time – she was on the path to being DC’s Captain America – but that path was ripped away from her and then she was lost. She then stumbled through the world for a few years. And that is the thing that Kate has that Bruce doesn’t. She knew what she needed to become, there was a single drive to her path, but then that was no longer an option. She had nothing to become anymore...

>[...] And it’s that lost period, before she came back to Gotham and saw Batman for the first time and realized the costume could be the way that she served, which is wholly unique to her. She has the same drive as Bruce, the same ferocity as Bruce. But she can see failure in a way that Bruce can’t. And that can give her incredible strength in a wholly different way. And that’s something that Marguerite and I are very interested in exploring. And we really needed a singular series to explore it to its full extent because at the end of the day, her role in “Detective” will always be about her relationships with Batman and the other characters, including her father, around her. “Batwoman,” the ongoing series, is about her relationship with herself. And the fact that she knows that the path can get ripped away from her so that’s why in “Batwoman Rebirth,” we see a glimpse of what would happen if that path was ripped away from her again, what could she become and would it become something good or would it become something really frightening. There is so much material [Laughs] There could be five years of “Batwoman” stories just based on the my first conversation with Marguerite so I am very excited for everyone to see what we’ve got cooking.

>Can Batman/Bruce and Spoiler/Stephanie repair their relationship or are we past the point of no return?

>I very pleased with the final speech that Bruce gave at the end of “Detective Comics” #947. That when he said that he’s not willing to go out there and cut her down. He disagrees with the points that Spoiler is making but he sees why she’s doing it. She hasn’t just made the switch and become an unrepentant villain. She just doesn’t agree with how Batman operates in Gotham City. And that launches her into the next part of her story that we’ll be picking up on right after the “League of Shadows” arc. Spoiler will definitely continue to be a part of this book, especially as we move forward with the dangling thread of where is Tim Drake and what’s up with him.

>That’s a nice place to end, because I wanted to ask you about Tim Drake. I know you can’t talk about the war that’s coming, but all points are leading to the fact that Tim is going to be a part of it, as is the mysterious character that is holding Tim captive. Will those events and the upcoming “Batman/The Flash” crossover “The Button” tie-into “Detective Comics”?

>I will definitely say that fans of “Detective Comics” should absolutely read “The Button” when it comes out. Fans of DC Comics, really everyone, should pick up “The Button.” This is the first of a few launching points that will send us into the next year of stories. I’m very excited for everyone to see what we’ve got cooking but at this point, I can’t even hint> at the shapes coming in the dark but there are shapes in the dark and they are coming. [Laughs] There are going to be a lot of really big, really cool stories coming up that I’m very excited to take part in.

cbr.com/interview-james-tynion-iv-detective-comics-batman-watchmen/

Next:
>“League Of Shadows” part three! Batman’s team faces the League of Shadows, which believes in only one thing: complete and utter destruction! The League’s plan for the city is revealed…but can even that secret compare to the bombshell that is the identity of Cassandra Cain’s mother?

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The end

How dare they humanise batman. He should be bulletproof with the reflexes of the flash.

this is kind of stupid

you know for a team book it would be nice to see some of the other characters actually do something.

I think im only reading now for clayface and to see what happens with Azrael.

still, suppose Judge user will be happy to see the original Shiva again

So Batman still doesn't believe the League of Shadows exist when his son was trained by them and shit?

He should have better reflexes than a little girl and a policeman, no doubt about that.

I'm so happy that Cass is getting the spotlight in this arc.

Thanks for the storytime, OP

>tfw lady shiva will never step on you

King is a Dick fag so writes a shit Batman. Tynion is making him job because Batman is the best one the team. Kinda like how they make Superman a jobber when he's on Justice League.

I liked it. Compared to what we got at the beginning of the New52, I'll take this.

He was gliding after jumping out a window if he moved his arm to escape a bullet (that he couldn't see coming) he would just start falling. In defence of the girl she did kill 200+ dudes so she has to be at least somewhat skilled. I don't understand why people want batman to be untouchable if he takes a bullet or cut every so often it doesn't make him a jobber it just makes it more impressive when he can take down a room of guys later without a scratch.

That's a lot of fucking swords.

I'm still deciding whether he's getting wounded just a little too easily. The bullet I don't mind so much but the batsuit should have some bullet resistance, at least to pistols. Also for that matter some degree of knife resistance.

I'd just assume the neck and shoulder are less heavily protected because they need to have flexibility to them so he came move easily in a fight. Now if he got shot or cut in the chest area then I'd call bullshit.

I'm happy to see the coat, but holy shit I hate everything else. It's clear Tynion doesn't see her as much more than a chuckling villain. That said, a friend did note her eyes seem to be under the same control as the citizens at the end, so maybe there'll be a twist at the end.
But other than that, fuck this "say my name" bullshit.

Is this supposed to be a The Batman reference?

> those two books who brought blade tipped staffs to the fight.

I love unique lackeys like them.

Note as well that Takara drew her eyes normally when she saw Cassandra cried her soul out. Here? Here her eyes are black as heck like the other members.

Maybe mind control gone completely off the rocker and that's why Ra's can't control them. They think they're doing his bidding but taking his methods to extreme lengths.

Plus the way Cassandra is in this arc. She needs a healer. Someone who completely understands her. Kate and Bruce do not. Shiva can heal Cass of the mental anguish she's dealing with right now.

Holly hit because she was very good at what she did, the cop hit by being very, very bad.

What bothers me is that Azrael and Batman are the only ones that got defeated multiple times

Can someone crop Azrael with the Umbrellas for me?

Was not expecting that.

League of Shadows =/= League of Assassins

I imagine there can be some confusion over both, after Nolan had the latter with the name of the former in the movies.

Azrael is literally always a jobber unless he's alone.

this is retarded

>no way it's real Kate
>the League of Assassin, Leviathan etc. sure, but someone creating a group that operates in the shadow? preposterous!

That's a pretty cool sequence.

oh boy, it's going to be a "Batman has never committed a murder in his life and has fought crime in this for years, but we walked in on him at the scene of a grisly murder and assume he did it" episode.

Tynion has made Detective Comics the best X-men book in nearly a decade.

Is the shocking twist that it's actually not Shiva?

So how many mayors in Gotham City have bought it? At this point who would want the job?

I'm personally pretty surprised - Hady feels like a fixture in Gotham politics.

Jesus, Batman, no one says, "This isn't what it looks like," unless it's exactly what it looks like.

>tfw only still reading this shit for Cass and Clayface interactions
Tynion please don't pull some bullshit with Basil

At least we're getting Luke and Jean now.

What the? Batman forgot who Ra's al Ghul and his son's mom are? How is he dismissing the League of Shadows?

"League of Shadows" has been the alternative name for the League of Assassins in the comics since forever.

The only distinction was in DCAU, and now here.

...Despite Prime Earth Shiva being a member of the League of Assassins.

so, the complete reverse of Bat-Dad pre-n52.

Eh, I can still dig it.

She was a member of the League of Assassins in this world too. Where she was shot in the butt by Harley (a bit she was mind controlled) and led a bunch of Man-Bats then got jobbed to Jason.

Ehhhhh, Tynion setup Clayface's fall in 950, with his DNA shredding. It's happening sometime in the next two years.

I drew Azrael!

>A similar thing happened to Kate. Her mother was killed and she believed at the time that her sister was killed, as well, and she started building herself to become the perfect soldier to fight the kind of terror that killed her parent. But the thing that’s different in her character is that there came a point where she was about to achieve what she wanted to achieve. She was about to graduate from West Point and actually become a real soldier and she would have been one of the best soldiers of all-time – she was on the path to being DC’s Captain America – but that path was ripped away from her and then she was lost. She then stumbled through the world for a few years. And that is the thing that Kate has that Bruce doesn’t. She knew what she needed to become, there was a single drive to her path, but then that was no longer an option. She had nothing to become anymore...

the batwoman shilling will never end

It's extremely off putting

League of Shadows =/= League of Assassins

Nolan got it wrong

bump

isn't this the same thing owls did to their victims with dozens wounds?

Are owls still around? Did they fight league of shadows?

Why the fuck didn't Batman do that already? It's been months, hasn't it?

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>off-center mouth

Remains the best Bat book.

the best bat book is all-star

The first arc was boring as fuck. Plus I'm still pissed the only Gentlemen Ghost we got was one fucking panel.

Was original Cassandra good enough for Batman to admit he'd loss to her in a 1v1 or is Tynion just bat-hating again?

Yes, Cass has always been better because she has super-autism. That's her character trait, just like Tim is a super genius.

>Batman spied on Cass enough to know she likes ballet

It's cute when he tries to be a dad.

Well, those Bat-crossguards are going to be compelling circumstantial evidence.

More like the League of Flashmobs, amirite?

Wait, Azrael is a ninja?

Cass's mother is Harper Row now. Calling it.

It's definitely meant as Cassandra-wank, Tynion isn't exactly subtle about that stuff, he's always "tell, don't show."

I like to think that Bruce just doesn't give a fuck either way and just wanted said "I'd lose" to shut Kate up. Otherwise, whether he'd beat her or not, it's really fucking out-of-character for Bruce to resign himself to losing.

Bruce is not a retard and knows his limits

It's always been the case, pre- and post-Flashpoint that Cassandra is a contender for the title of best martial artist in the world. Batman is talking about a 1-on-1 fight.

It just means if he actually had to take her down for some reason, he'd rely on prep-time, gadgets, and psychological tactics. He'd try to avoid that straight 1-on-1 situation. Cass is hardly the only person in that category.

Original Cassandra Cain was the best martial artist in the DC universe. No ifs or buts. Writers generally danced around the Batman question though because they didn't want to say the company's golden boy would get stomped by a girl, nor did they want to invalidate Cass's "ranking" either.

Tynion is trying hard to sell people on Cass being a super strong writer, which is exactly what he should do (and should have done way earlier than this). The problem is that the only way he knows how to do that sort of thing is having some other characters stand around talking about how badass she is. That's not good storytelling.

Puckett built up Cass gradually, over the years, by constantly showing her doing unbelievable stunts all day erryday. Key words: SHOW and DO. He didn't just have Batman and Oracle stand around going "My scouter indicates that her power level is now two billion, that's over 600 million higher than mine".

>Tynion is trying hard to sell people on Cass being a super strong writer

FIGHTER. God damn.

Though that would be a fucking twist.

Snyder is a meme writer.
Though the Poison Ivy issue was good.

Well sure, it's well-established that if they fought 1v1 in H2H with no gadgets she'd win. I'm not contesting that, since she's, for all intents and purposes, practically metahuman in that regard. That doesn't change the fact that it's incredibly strange for him to concede and say he could never beat her, since those kinds of conditions weren't specified, unless he was just saying that to keep Kate focused on the job at hand.

I know I'm being incredibly pedantic, but it's sequences like these that make me hate Tynion as a writer. It just reeks of low effort, there are much cooler ways to show that Cassandra is a better martial artist.

>Cass' writing

>Shiva's not dressed like an idiot now

YESSSS

That's basically what I want back and what has been missing completely from her Nu52 run. I've been waiting this whole time for her to cartwheel on walls or deflect bullets or mow down guys in frozen matrix time or kick down a wall or any fucking crazy, over-the-top thing she used to do constantly. Her new origin sucks shit, it wastes David and makes her less unique and doesn't explain her abilities properly, but more than that I want back all the cool shit she would do. That's her main damn appeal.

She hasn't dressed like a dinosaur since like the 2014 Deathstroke book user, so you're a couple years late

She was in that terrible Secret Six book in the dino-costume

You should see how Takara draws it. Dayum.

She was still dressed like a generic idiot in that book. Also, she went back to the dinosaur look in Simone's Secret Six last year.

god forbids she had an actual interesting design instead of generic asian woman

Here

She looked retarded. Shiva is supposed to have dignity and grace.