Since there's no WW thread currently I have to ask: did they really just go back on this whole storyline ? Like...

Since there's no WW thread currently I have to ask: did they really just go back on this whole storyline ? Like, the whole thing was a lie and fuck everything that happened in it ?

How did Wonder Woman fans react ? What about the creators ?

>How did Wonder Woman fans react ?
It happens every time. They're used to it.

>there's no WW thread currently
And it should stay that way, you fucking retard. Delete this shit and fuck off.

>How did Wonder Woman fans react ?
New writer completely ignoring/retconing Woder Woman previous runs is pretty much the usual, only people that have only read Azz run care.

wahhh wahhhh wahhhh

>How did Wonder Woman fans react ?
Some fans were happy and some fans who barely know her character were mad.

>only people that have only read Azz run care.
Fuck Yourself.

>and some fans who barely know her character were mad.
FUCK YOURSELF!

He's right though. I only see complaining from people who said Azz was their first Wonder Woman.

Azz-fag detected. Go jerk off to your evil Amazons and Endless ripoffs elsewhere.

thread needs more wonder tits

and wonder butt

Wonder Woman unfortunately lacks consistency. Every writer comes along with their own idea of what Diana is supposed to be and do their own thing, ranging from mediocre to shit depending on who you ask. This arc is just another to fall out of memory
While true, I do think Azz's run gets an unwarranted amount of shit on here. There are FAR worse runs on WW and frankly it was fun for what it was. But yeah I wouldnt call it essential by any means, and the New God stuff didnt really mesh well with the story. Had some fun ideas though

I love when lying retard fucks claim the older Wonder Woman comics were never dark dour battle & war oriented books.

This is still my favorite WW outfit to come out of the last decade of trying to reinvent the wheel. Shame it didn't stay around too long. Animated Wondy really knocks it out in the movies.

...

Carolfags need to leave

Sadly, that's not the complaint.

It's not what happened. Well, it is, but what that happening meant to the greater mythos and symbolic nature of the character.

Azz' run wasn't overall bad, but it made some pretty bad calls which marred the title beyond what many could tolerate.

...

It always bugged me when the Amazons were used as "War Fodder" because . . . They aren't making new ones in that continuity. They just . . .are. There are Finite Amazons, and the stories rarely point that out as a real kicker to the tragedies involved.

>Finite
Not anymore....I think. Is the sailor fucking still canon?

Just because some of us prefer her to be more serious and warrior-ish does not mean that is are only experience with her.

Plenty of people are mad because the current run is boring & meandering as fuck pace-wise compared to Azz's run & I say that as someone who liked both runs.

We can love Azz's run overall and hate the evil amazon aspect.

...

not everyone may have liked Azz run, but it was the WW thing in the past 10 years at least.

I don't think so, and that was one of the things that people got mad at the Azz run for.

Well that and the daughter of Zeus retcon

Retconning the Amazon's being fucked up isn't the problem, the problem is retconning the awesome character & design work with the gods in exchange for fucking woodland animals.
The problem is revoking the awesome background added to Ares & Diana's replationship. It made him a MUCH more 3d character.

I am fine with her being the daughter of Zues, that makes no difference to me.

>in exchange for fucking woodland animals.

You do know that, with a few exceptions, those are the animals that were sacred to those gods, right?

I don't like Rucka's current run because it reeks of him pitching a fit. It reads like a l fix-fic, like he said at the start, "I'm going to do RIGHT by Diana, I'm going to MAKE HER GOOD." It feels super fanfiction-y, not in a good way either. On that note, it also feels like he took some kind of deep offense at the changes Azz made in his run, hence why he's retconned them so ruthlessly.

Well, to be fair, Azz and Rucka disagree heavily on what the core of Diana's character is.

Or rather, feel "Love" is demonstrated in different ways.

I don't care if it makes contextual sense, I want to see epic gods & monsters being badass.

Many of us come to Wonder Woman for the same reason we come to Thor, for epic god stuff.

Im conflicted. What I'd like is some consistency and her, and her rogues to get proper characterization this day and age but at the same time when you start laying it down you get that "not muh" conundrum. And I feel the Justice League book did far more damage to her than whatever her solo did

>Since there's no WW thread currently I have to ask: did they really just go back on this whole storyline ?
Same reason they did the same with Kanigher's and O'Neil's. They felt it wasn't resonating with the fans, so they ditched it.

Though the way they did it to O'Neil's was horribly unacceptable.

Eat a fat one. Sup Forums should NEVER talk about Wonder Woman for any reason. Most people here, despite feeling entitled to bitch about how much they hate her, outright refuse to actually read any of her books from before 2011, likely due to the influence of the DCAU, which solidified the false perception of Diana as a "me hate men! me kill!" asshole.

Additionally, a good chuck of posters are fans of the Azzarello run, which features the Amazons being evil(a type of portrayal that severely pisses off long time Wondy fans due to such a thing missing the point, and bringing up the wretched memory of Amazons Attack), yet more focus on the Olympians which got old even in the early days of the franchise, and that kill yourself annoying framing quirk where characters will finish each others sentences as a transition. I will never understand why so many people like that run despite it being pedestrian at best and offensive at worst.

There's no point in having a Wondy thread on Sup Forums because it's all the same shit every time. A bunch of retarded casuals spewing bullshit out of their flapping mouths.

Making a WW thread should really be a bannable offense at this point.

>and her rogues to get proper characterization this day and age
But that is exactly what Azz gave to the gods in his run and it's what Rucka is doing with Cheetah right now.

The Superman/Wonder Woman book didn't help either.

Though I admit, I laughed when Apollo blasted Supes and then realized what a mistake he has made.

>On that note, it also feels like he took some kind of deep offense at the changes Azz made in his run, hence why he's retconned them so ruthlessly.

He is an alleged feminist. Most of them feel wronged since they believe Azz played the Amazons straight from the Greek myths which were not so flattering in many instances. Fucking idiots.

>due to such a thing missing the point
EXACTLY what is the fucking point?

You do remember that Wondy's origins are a lot more than just the Greek Myths right?

They're also mixed in Feminism and OH so much Bondage Fetish.

>The Superman/Wonder Woman book didn't help either.
Only the flashbacks to the origin arc, otherwise her characterization was on point in that book.

>I will never understand why so many people like that run despite it being pedestrian at best and offensive at worst.

Because it deviated from so many established tropes. Ares wasn't evil. Her origin wasn't as clay, but as a daughter of Zeus. The Amazons were not morally good and she wasn't a emissary of peace. The latter in particular has become tiresome especially in our current era.

Yes and many of us want them to play down that bullshit.
The "women can do no wrong" aspect of her feminism should have fucking died with Batman's duel 1911s he stole from the Shadow.

But Azz was basically retconned away, hence my point. They need to fucking stick with something already. Rucka is off to a rough start, but at least hes trying

Two things that also really don't belong in WW in this era. Prioritizing one gender only another is no better than misogyny or the "toxic masculinity" decried by feminists.

Wonder Woman is his waifu, no one else's.

I can take or leave his Cheetah - leaning a bit more towards leave, his Doctor Cyber is fantastic, but what in God's name was he thinking with Doctor Poison? But the real shitshow of his run is that we get to set through more Veronica Cale. Fuck that.

Literally all he's doing is bringing back the status quo from when his original run ended. We can all see it. Fucking Ferdinand is back. Why?

>but what in God's name was he thinking with Doctor Poison?
The white blonde one? That was THE FINCH not Rucka.

Havent caught up with Rebirth, in brief what has Rucka done with WW's rogues exactly?

Your misunderstanding the point.

And you think Feminism is an the Devil apparently.

Look, to keep it simple, Diana is, when boiled down to her basics, Amazon Jesus.

She is a lady warrior from a society of lady warriors.

She is also a divine being from a celestial paradise here to make the world a better place.

If you taint her celestial abode, her missing to make the world a better place becomes tainted as well.

So, that's why Rapist Amazons are a bad idea, QED.

Remember Rucka's run from before the Nu52?

He's basically rebuilding that.

Since that's one of the best modern run's Diana's had, I fail to see why the complaints are so vociferous.

>"I like the Amazons being evil cunts!"
Kill yourselves. What, them being paranoid isolationists who look down on other nations isn't enough? They have to be murderous assholes as well? Fuck off.

That's another reason Sup Forums should never ever talk about Wonder Woman. Bunch of fucking edgelords the lot of you.

It's annoyingly transparent that he's doing it. He's trying to go back in time. It's not working, at least not for me.

Meh I don't mind Rucka trying to give Diana a supporting cast because she really fucking needs one. She rarely interacts with anyone outside the JL or the gods these days.

I don't think feminism is devil. I think feminism has outlived its usefulness as a political ideology in the developing world though it does have its uses in the Global South. But I doubt any WW writer is going to address that. It's just not sexy.

>She is also a divine being from a celestial paradise here

That was not really true in Azz run. They were just a fragmentary remnant from the Greco Roman Era who perpetrated themselves through murder. Arguably I think it's sharper commentary on the pre-modern and human society as a whole.

so...
much..

Azz-pain

Am I the only one who sees the Azzazons as good people forced to do bad things?

>What, them being paranoid isolationists who look down on other nations isn't enough?

That was essentially his point io. Amazing that your kind missed it by a mile.

Diana is more interesting when she ISN'T some savior figure, IMO. Or, rather, when her mission to man's world is complicated by wrinkles in her own personality.

This is the flaw in Marston's origin. Perfect characters aren't interesting. That's why Paradise Island being perfect isn't interesting.

>Since that's one of the best modern run's Diana's had, I fail to see why the complaints are so vociferous
It feels repetitive and redundant at this point, but it's not like the Finches left anything from Azz's run anyway. It's a solid foundation for someone else to do something more interesting with. I actually like Cale this time around, and Cyber is pretty good too, but Cale has never and will never be that appealing to anyone besides Rucka. He should shuffle her offstage once he's done with her.

I had a idea on how to reboot Giganta, lord knows she needs reinvented. About the only thing I remember her in were those brief Forever Evil tie-ins, and her costume sucked too

No I said here... That I don't like them being evil, I would be fine with them making babies with sailors if they just hadn't killed the sailors afterwards, could have had them use magic to make the sailors forget or something.

>I actually like Cale this time around, and Cyber is pretty good too
Agreed.

>That's why Paradise Island being perfect isn't interesting
This is something I agree with. Eden's don't really give rise to the drama necessary to be interesting unless you destroy, subvert, or corrupt them, which is why Themyscaria gets fucking wrecked so often. I'd prefer if Diana's decision to leave the Island was a choice she made against the wishes of everyone else, and the contest was simply her way of testing herself.

They didnt feel that magical in that run though, it feels like their tech and culture was reduced on purpose and the barbarism is part of that.

>Good people forced to do bad things
In a warped wrong sort of way yeah. The Amazons were always wrong about isolation, and they're cunts for killing sailors just so they could continue. Hell the biggest hero in Azz was Hephaestus since he offered to take the male offspring in exchange for weapons, otherwise those children would have been killed Spartan style

No, the generic evil mercenary he's calling Poison.

Cheetah is mostly the same he's just doing character stuff with her, Doctor Poison now has nothing to do with poisons and heads a rather generic looking mook squad, Doctor Cyber is now a ghost in the machine type deal, Veronica Cale is now a single mom.

Diana has a supporting cast almost all the time, it's just that writers change her supporting cast. If anything WW's supporting cast was very stable from Nu52 to Rebirth; all Rucka is doing is clearing out WW's supporting cast per usual.

Yes I think strangely enough it's better and sharper commentary on inhumane and coercive mechanisms in all societies than all-men-being-misogynists arguments. That ultimately what drives the inequalities in sex/gender is more arguably survival and later economic modes of production. But of course writers like Rucka who view themselves as thinkers ultimately are too cowardly to go there.

>implying Themyscira has ever been perfect outside the Golden Age
Casuals need to be permabanned. Read a fucking book, you fucking retards.

>Diana has a supporting cast almost all the time, it's just that writers change her supporting cast. If anything WW's supporting cast was very stable from Nu52 to Rebirth; all Rucka is doing is clearing out WW's supporting cast per usual.
I agree writers need to be better about respecting what came before, but Azz's cast got destroyed by the Finches not Rucka. Zeke just turned back into Zeus out of nowhere, Donna got that fucking awful new origin, the Manazons got killed off, there really wasn't much left.

Steve and Etta and Ferdinad are a nice start, but I wouldn't mind seeing Nubia, or some of Diana's half brothers or sisters via Zeus showed up. Jason is still out there and we'll see if he's a hero or villain.

Thank you for proving my point.

>Doctor Poison now has nothing to do with poisons and heads a rather generic looking mook squad

They at least had that bit about her making bio weapons.

Fuck off autist, we were talking about if it actually was perfect, and how the misconception caused it to get sacked. You Wondyfags need to fucking get permabanned, you're the biggest roadblack to discussion since you just scream
>NOT MUHHHHHHHHHHH

As a Wonder Woman reader that only gain interest to the character because of Azz, I dropped Wonder Woman altogether and stop caring about her after the rape that Flinch and Rucka did.

I liked the new 52 Wonder Woman. It made the Amazons actual people with different personalities instead of the inverse of the "Stepford Wives" trope where they all have to be super nice, yet for some reason be warriors living in paradise? Like...huh?

I also hate the idea of finite amazons who never upgrade their technology. I mean, living for centuries upon centuries on an island and their still brandishing sword and shield? I get the look of it, I mean it does look cool, but I'm kinda tired of the...

"What is this world of men?"...sorta existence they were often portrayed as. Women can be just as dynamic, evil, and world-weary as their opposite.

In either case, that's my piece.

Read the Jimenez and Post-Crisis Rucka eras. And their argument is that political conflict is ultimately because of patriarch's world such as the United States of America intruding into their waters or Hercules splitting up the Amazons after he enslaved them. There is no incident where it's all their fault or the fault of their backwards monarchy.

The biggest argument against Diana is how fucking awful her fanbase is
> DIANA IS GOOD AND IF YOU DON'T AGREE FUCK YOU REEEEEEEEEEEEE

>a man beating his wife is a matter of survival

Right on mate.

I think you missed the entire point of the Amazon's and Themyscira. They're set in their ways, stubborn, and cut off from the rest of the world because they think paradise is just avoiding the issue altogether

Also at the end of the day I don't much care about the deep themes of comics. I read comic books for cool shit, and so far Azz's run is cooler than Rucka's.

There's the Bana Amazons who are more involved with the world, Diana's Amazons chose to go be hippies and worship the gods on their island. As an isolationist island nation it makes sense their tech doesn't really advance. They should really substitute tech with magic though.

Honestly I'm more worried with who's going to take over after Rucka leaves. We REALLY don't need someone to try again to fucking tell the "definitive" Wonder Woman story. We just need someone who will take Rucka's status quo and do something mildly interesting with it, preferably without resorting to more god stories. Give some focus to Circe or reinvent one of Diana's old villains, or fuck it make your own.

It's hard not to scream that when you're frustrated that so much discussion is being had by idiots who don't care about, nor read any substantial amount of the material. Maybe if you actually bothered to read more than one run, before talking all kinds of shit, you wouldn't have fans of the IP crawling up your ass all the time, dumbass.

You think I'd go into a Blue Beetle thread and start giving opinions despite having little knowledge on the subject? Fuck no, cause that's fucking stupid.

>this whole storyline
>Posts a shitty, inscrutable fanart,

>men beat women because men are misogynists not because of the gender hierarchy of human society that has developed overtime due to the dominant economic/agricultural modes of production in human history that has given men greater economic and social power

>New villain
They tried that with First Born and we got a screaming autist who fucked hyenas because daddy never noticed him

>before talking all kinds of shit
Show me where I did this you fucking retard.

Go REEEEEEE somewhere else, we were having a civil discussion before your stupid ass felt the need to do some autistic screeching.

>You think I'd go into a Blue Beetle thread and start giving opinions despite having little knowledge on the subject? Fuck no, cause that's fucking stupid.
Of course you would user. We're on fucking Sup Forums.

Kek yeah Firstborn was awful, but Azz was gone and to be honest iirc he took the job because Dido threatened him that if he didn't they were going to go full retard with Diana in the New 52.

So his heart probably wasn't all in it, I'd still love to see him take one of Diana's villains and give them the Luthor treatment. But I also welcome other people trying to add some new villains as long as her classic rogues' gallery gets some focus too.

no one ever said that

I don't know user you sure act like an insufferable know it all asshole.

Donna's new origin was great. It was a legitimately good thing even if the run itself was shit. Concise, thematically linked, and conducive to character development and story ideas. Then they had to go and publish Titans Hunt.

That'd be like them revamping Iron Man into a magician then talking about the time he built a suit of armor in a cave with a box of scraps. Winking references count for shit.

I think what goads me the most about Themysciraian politics and views is that they somehow think that an absolute monarchy the size of a small town that gets infinite resources and protection by divine beings that spent millennia completely cut off from the rest of the world has any leg to stand on discussing any form of geopolitical issue.

You've been talking shit since your fist post, moron. You have done nothing but display gross ignorance of the subject at hand, and you don't even seem to actually care much for this property, raising the question of why the hell you're even here.

Fuck off, not everyone is a Sup Forumstard. Some of us actually want to talk about stuff, but are unable to due to a severe lack of sources for intelligent and/or well informed conversation.

>You've been talking shit since your fist post, moron. You have done nothing but display gross ignorance of the subject at hand, and you don't even seem to actually care much for this property, raising the question of why the hell you're even here.
Link it you stupid fucking faggot. And high talk from a fucking moron who's sole contribution has been screaming about how anyone who doesn't like YOUR Wondy is fucking wrong and REEEEEEEEEEEEE.

Fuck off back to CBR you waste of space.

>everyone is a Sup Forumstard
Not everyone, just you. You're not contributing anything but your asshurt at people who don't agree with you.

He hasn't really established a status quo for Diana yet.

>take one of Diana's villains and give them the Luthor treatment.
Ares. That's exactly what he did with Ares.

In real life their system of government would be called theocracy and only the most oppressive states on Earth have that sort of system including Saudi Arabia, Islamic State and North Korea.

Messner Loeb already tried that with Ares in his run. And I think his run was an unmitigated disaster.