Doctor Who General - /who/

Into the Dalek edition What are your thoughts on Capaldi's first dalek story? Reminder that we have 40 days until we say goodbye:

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Unmemorable, forgettable, rushed, 12 an absolute dick, utterly pointless just cramming the Daleks in as early as possible.

Some kino direction, but also some dodgy direction.

Jodie Whittaker will soon join the list of New Who Doctors, such as Christopher Eccleston, David Tennant, Matt Smith, John Hurt and uh...

*looks at smudged writing on hand*

River gets a pass because she's half timelord but Rose is human.

You also can't forget the fact that 10 spent half of his lifespan moping over her.

>inb4 12 was depressed over River!!!

Pretty meh if you ask me. Some bits towards the end are pretty cool but overall really unmemorable. Also probably the grumpiest 12th has ever been.

>12 an absolute dick
He saved the life of everyone that he could. Boo-fucking-hoo if he made some cutting remarks to them to amuse himself while doing so.

>River gets a pass because she's half timelord but Rose is human.
dats racist

JUST

Literally didn't tho did he. He basically tricked one guy into being killed for his own gain.

What will Jodie's first words be /who/?

I wouldn't want to see the Doctor marry or romantically kiss a Time Lord either. I like to think that Time Lords are above animalistic behaviour and fuck each other with their minds or something.

Not sure how I feel about the new TARDIS, lads.

You are probably right, I rewatched the scene.

I agree 12 was a bit of a dick, but that's not how that happenned. The whole point o that scene was that the guy was already dead when he attacked the Dalek inside--12 even tries to stop the guy. But after the antibodies target the guy, there's no saving him, and so 12 uses the guy's death as a way to save everyone else.

It reminded me of something theyd try circa Celestial Toymaker. Its a bit silly really.

LOOOOOMS

This bit is proper kino.
youtube.com/watch?v=MkAQesEffLw

12's unnecessarily dickish dialogue might secretly be the best thing about it. It's like a glimpse into an alternate version of the show, where the Doctor is an emotionally hardened arsehole with a heart of gold who genuinely needs his companion as a humanising influence.
His witty barbs to the soldier characters, rather than just being directionless edginess, all stem from a genuine mistrust of military interventionism and institutional slaughter ("crying's for civilians; it's how we communicate with you lot"). And Capaldi plays it all brilliantly, conveying a sense of tough love that doesn't contradict his inner compassion. I can't lie, I would watch the shit out of this version of the show if it actually existed.
But it doesn't, which makes it a bit of a weird episode.

‘Oh ‘eck, I were aiming for Kris Marshall!’

"SILLY BOYS!"

He was going to die anywhere. The pill he swallowed was a tracker so the Doctor could get on with the job of saving everyone else.

I like it. 12 was supposed to be a dick early on. Has some pretty funny lines.

He loosened up over the course of Series 8.

Kill the Moon is another episode in that "universe."

"YOUR TIME'S UP, MEN - WOMEN ARE THE FUTURE NOW!"

'What are you doing here?'

"What are these mammary-like things on my chest?"

ETHERIC BEAM LOCATORS

We won't know. Because it's going to be in High Gallifreyan.

When did the Doctor become a basketball coach?

...

I wonder what High Gallifreyan sounds like

>It's about time
Why? It was only established 6 years ago that Time Lords can change gender.

What's the best way to integrate "looms are canon" message into the show except for referencing it in the dialogue?

good post

>the Doctor shouldn't have romanti-

Although the idea has been floated around since Tom Baker left. And Moffat cast Joanna Lumley in a charity skit in 1999.

Like Tolkien's Elvish. beautiful but slightly bizarre.

Exactly like this, which is why they had to edit the episode to hide the truth: youtube.com/watch?v=vGG0RSgJT1I

(1:19)

EXPLICITLY romantic. I actually like the ambiguity with characters like Cameca and Madame de Pompadour.

>Madame de Pompadour
>ambiguous
they kissed, user

and they definitely fucked

they're clearly referencing that its a show about time travel

She kissed him. Whether he liked it while it was happening and whether it only amused him because she was a famous historical figure is unclear.

That was only implied on a meta-level with Moffat's "dancing".

"It's about time" is also a line used a few times in promos for the show, and was used for the TV Movie ("He's back, and it's about time.") Some people take shit way too srs

8/Grace and their kiss?

Come on. It's almost certainly meant as "It's about time a woman played the Doctor!" which, like I said, doesn't make much sense when gender-swapping Time Lords were only established recently.

hoodie

>gender-swapping Time Lords were only established recently.
And it was established far too late. 54 years without a female doctor is a perfectly valid use of "it's about time"

He kissed the nearest person out of sheer joy that he was remembering Gallifrey and who he was. Or maybe he just used that as an excuse because he fancied her. The fact that we don't know makes it ambiguous, not explicit.

this one of the low tier memes of /who/

And then... kissed her again at the end with the fireworks because

>And it was established far too late.
That implies that it HAD to be established at all, let alone after 50 years of it not being the case. Why?

because let's be honest, 13 guys in, it was getting boring

also, Romana changed into different species/bodies never mind just gender swapping

Forgot about that. That was an explicitly romantic moment. But the context is important: it occurred in a barely-canonical American TV movie which also revealed that the Doctor was half-human. Which makes it fairly easy to ignore those violations of the Doctor's long-established character.

Sure.

>barely-canonical American TV movie

Um...

>it occurred in a barely-canonical American TV movie which also revealed that the Doctor was half-human.
Excellent bait because it's true.

youtube.com/watch?v=TmfGopbT8h0

Do you think the Doctor's half-human? Do you want him to be?

YOU found it boring.

I'm sure I wasn't alone.

>well that's just, like, your opinion man
great observation

I'm not bothered by that line unlike a lot of autists *shrug*

youtube.com/watch?v=WfGncmpou_A

>well that's just, like, your opinion man
great observation

I think people are bored of Moffat (and maybe even Capaldi) not the Doctor being a man.

holy shit, McGann's singing voice is majestic

youtube.com/watch?v=qgwZyr_giYI

There are lots of people bored of white guys always playing the Doctor too. Just accept it. *rolls eyes*

>*rolls eyes*
Not the same user but I'm sure that is the text-based version of pic related.

>*
how about you fuck offerino?

Who is worse, Judy or *user*?

I have no problem with the Doctor changing race and I'm not strongly anti-femDoctor but I think it was done to appease a very vocal and aggressive minority (many of whom don't even watch the show) rather than because it was "boring" having only men. Maybe the right thing, but definitely done for the wrong reasons.

Personally I don't necessarily find it boring, but after the kino that was Capaldi, literally any guy would've been a step down.

*Judy*

oh shit

makeapp of jess and claudia when

Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead truly is GOAT

Your first mistake was existing, /who/. Your second mistake was thinking you know more than me. I'm here to correct both of those mistakes. No matter how much time it takes, from now until the end of time, I'll be here to prove you wrong and destroy you. Give up, /who/, you can't win. I will always outmatch you physically, mentally, genetically and sexually. I never tire, I choose to sleep. I never hunger, I choose to eat. I can prove anything. I choose not to. Now get off my board and go back to plebbit. This is your warning.

Vashta Nerada are a good villain IMO and I'm glad they've not been used again in the TV series, anyway

youtube.com/watch?v=xli6n64Xxqc

Here's Claudia

Who has the most female penis in all of Who

Astolfo

adric

5

10

>And Moffat cast Joanna Lumley in a charity skit in 1999.

Unironically, I would have based a female Doctor's look off of her dresses in Sapphire and Steel.

I think I lost my original .sai file for this... :(

...

This isn't real... is it?

who would photoshop it?

JNT and RTD. Both prima-donna, insecure, control-freak producers. Both were media savvy about promoting the show, both gained fanatical acolytes, as though inherently attracting fans of a similar unpleasant, petty, narcissistic mindset, or having the same propagandising media power to inspire unreasoning fanatical loyalty as Hitler did. Both reduced the show to tacky style over substance and pretentious, bog-standard fan-fiction. JNT forced his own martyr complex onto the show and its hero, and RTD forced his own messiah complex onto the Doctor.

There always seemed a chill heart to fandom's celebration of the revival. Usually the angriest JNT apologists inspire my begrudging respect for their strength of passion, furiously defending the era they love. With the RTD sycophants, those creeps have only ever given me insincere, cold vibes.

I think Classic Who naturally earned the love of fans and this love preceded whatever ugliness later befell fandom. The New Who sycophants, however, seemingly decided the line they'd take and manned their trenches of psychological warfare against the fans who'd hate it, before the new series even began. The self-hatred and unreasoning snobbish contempt seemed to predate the New Series itself, and wasn't born of any genuine love, but more like a drug hit, pursuing and maintaining an avaricious high and being devoid of any empathy for others.

Waiter, this pasta is delicious.

So we ended up with the RTD era. An era based almost entirely on desperation, but with occasional hints of a moral purpose that became lost in this whole messiah complex hysteria, lack of sincere conviction, and the superficial glitter of showbiz. Christopher Eccleston's era hinted at RTD discovering and honing his better angels. Whilst RTD may today be an egotistical bitch, occasionally his writing betrayed his upbringing in one of the last generations that believed in community spirit, utilitarianism and having a stake in the wellbeing of your fellow man. Often RTD's writing caught and projected that ethos even despite being consciously written for an individualistic generation which requires heavy emoting scenes to get the audience to care and empathise with the lead characters, rather than the old days when it was just assumed the audience would naturally have a stake in them and their ideals. RTD's stories were perhaps a needed throwback to a more 80's notion of youth and teen-hood that was far more working class and far less about the hedonistic, permissive high-life of high-functioning sociopathy and avarice that characterises Scream, American Pie, Dawson's Creek and Skins, and can leave the viewer who's outside that lifestyle feeling crushingly inadequate. Rose felt like our kind of teenager, who rightly placed being a good person over living the high life.

RTD's era was of one-sided politics and a self-righteous hero who cuts through the bull and does what has to be done. It was perhaps a throwback to simpler storytelling and character archetypes as an antidote to the saturating media information overload that defines our age and its confused, exhausted, directionless, passive aggressive, apathetic generation. I even thought maybe RTD's infuriating, apocryphal moments and belligerent fan complex were about cultivating much-needed anger and motivation in our apathetic generation, and maybe channeling nerd rage towards a positive goal. Maybe RTD's era wasn't 'real' Doctor Who, nor the Doctor Who we'd waited for, but it was still important television.

This is in synch with Christopher Eccleston's ideals for what he thought the show would be, but, as is becoming clear, Eccleston grew to dislike the cliquey atmosphere on-set, and possibly also the sillier stories with the Slitheen which played down to kids in a way Eccleston hadn't expected or wanted from a writer like Russell. RTD producing Eccleston's season was like JNT producing Tom Baker's last season. In both cases, the control freak producer dropped the difficult force of nature actor who had briefly made this superficial new show edgy and riveting, and replaced them with the straight-laced, heart-throb actor who would do as they were told and who the producer could and did reduce to his little performing puppet. Eccleston played a Doctor the viewer could be scared of, much like Hartnell and the Bakers did. Eccleston's Doctor could reduce the life expectancy of everyone around him. Tennant was always too safe and, much like Davison, he never seemed genuinely formidable; attempts to make him seem dark in The Waters of Mars just seemed desperate.

fuck off burrunjor

>second sentence in and user is already comparing Doctor Who showrunners he doesn't like to Hitler
dis gon be gud

I hated the domestics of Rose's family, but, looking back on the Australian series The Girl From Tomorrow, I see that on principle there's nothing wrong with introducing a mother character to a teen sci-fi adventure as an emotional focal point, provided the mother character is a realistic and endearing image of motherhood. Anyone can sympathise with a worried mother. In Survival, Sergeant Patterson tells Ace that he's disgusted with the way she's left her mother worrying. Empathising with a mother is the most basic feeling someone can have. Even if, as in The Girl From Tomorrow, the mother in question can be a quite strict, intimidating matriarch, she can still inspire respect and empathy. But Jackie Tyler was a horrible, spiteful loudmouth stereotype who just inspired contempt and revulsion, particularly when forced down our throats by Russell.

Jackie was at her best when other writers wrote her as utterly unpleasant and a symbol of everything wrong with our spoilt, materialistic society and captured the underlying hopeless unhappiness of Jackie's dream chasing. In Rise of the Cybermen, her 'perfect' rich marriage leaves her miserable and cruel. Again, though, RTD's overall control and exhaustion of his own excesses overrode everyone else's good work.

Russell seemed determined to paint fans who disliked the domestics as misogynists or snobs, and he consistently bases his female characters on the worst, most unpleasant, insecure, territorial and clingy kind of fag hags he's known, and thinks this captures the pulse of modern womanhood. He made the show just for them, turning the Doctor into the besotted lapdog of Rose, despite it making no sense for the Doctor to see her as so special. Again the sycophants seemed to think this desperate sexual tension and vulgar titillation was needed to keep the show popular, as though a platonic relationship wouldn't work on TV today. This is complete bunk given that Mulder and Scully worked as a popular platonic pairing in the same way as the old Doctor and companion team worked on the inherent connection between femininity and the fantasist. Both knowing what it's like to be patronised, dismissed and disregarded.

To me, nothing charts the descent of RTD's era more effectively than comparing Tooth and Claw and Last of the Time Lords. Tooth and Claw captures RTD's best qualities of sheer exhilaration. But it also has a quieter scene where the Doctor shares dinner with Queen Victoria and she tells of how she misses her late husband and how her faith in God keeps her believing that one day she'll see him again.

>hedonistic, permissive high-life of high-functioning sociopathy and avarice that characterises Scream, American Pie, Dawson's Creek and Skins

This sounds like someone who never saw those beyond a surface reading. The kids in Skins were often disaffected and lost, with complicated lives they couldn't understand. Rarely were they psychopaths. Naomi and Emily's plotlines were all about how they had to deal with feelings. Effy seemed like a sociopath at times, but that was always a cover (and she helps people out the goodness of her heart at least once.)

And American Pie was about teen boys who wanted to get laid, and about the bonds of brotherhood amoung male friends.

My problem with this analysis from that site, that you continue to post, is that it's rudimentary analysis. It's surface level, made by someone who maybe has a good point, but the way he interprets text it uses to support his claims is lacking.

*And Cruel Intentions is a better example of a movie about "hedonistic sociopaths" from that era.

Russell is of course a militant, belligerent atheist (hence why his era appealed to militant, rhetorical, belligerent fans) and so Victorian values represent everything he's antagonistically opposed to. Sexual and emotional repression (but without voice or sympathy for victims of sexual abuse), homophobia, oppression of women, religious indoctrination, child cruelty. This scene shows why Russell feels he has to be belligerently antagonistic. Because if he stopped, he'd have to admit to a certain awe. The scene with Queen Victoria shows the side of Victoriana that makes it almost seem like a better age. A time before our hedonistic fatalism and pessimism, when, for all the horrors of the Victorian age, it was an optimistic age where people believed with evangelical conviction that religion and science would point the way forward to a better future. It's a dichotomy that Russell wrestles with, and he almost dares to reckon with it here.

Last of the Time Lords shows Russell's rather elaborate solution. His bleak vision for what humanity's destined to become at the universe's end is perhaps his loudest atheist statement, but the story ends with the Doctor becoming Jesus, healing everyone's injuries, undoing the Master's evil acts and declaring his foe forgiven. Russell effectively reckoned with his envy of believers, by creating a religion of his own, making the Doctor his God. To everyone else watching, though, it's downright shameful and as laughably over-earnest as JNT's worst, most desperate moments. But it did something JNT's era never could, by breaking my ability to care anymore. The Doctor's invincible superpowers made the entire drama suddenly redundant, proving indeed that enough bad work can form a corrosive critical mass.