Are they actually racist stereotypes or are we just projecting it because we're looking at it from a modern day...

Are they actually racist stereotypes or are we just projecting it because we're looking at it from a modern day viewpoint?

Other urls found in this thread:

takimag.com/article/whats_the_matter_with_blackface_gavin_mcinnes/print#axzz4Zxx42C7G
youtube.com/watch?v=fpac3C3P76Q
youtube.com/watch?v=svoSSdsNhtA
youtube.com/watch?v=j9lG6uCOSH4
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They are actually racist stereotypes and we (you) are not projecting it because blaxploitation was common and is still used today, albeit more subtly in advertising and certain works of fiction.

Those crows actually are suppose to be an omage, than just a stereotype.

>support Dumbo
>are actually voiced by black people
why am I supposed to be offended? Because they were based on real black people?

the main crow was voiced by a white man and was named Jim Crow

Did you ever think that they are just acting like crows in their universe are acting and by connecting them to people within our universe and by making that connection, you and anyone else who does that connection is a racist?

What if the birds are black coded ?

here come the mental gymnastics. You know clear and well what they were doing, and yes, it is offensive. Doesn't mean you have to admit that everything is racist or sexist, though.

Who cares, and why should anybody care?

>I like to end discussions with dead end responses

Guess we shouldn't talk about anything ever.

As a matter of fact, i dont know what is so offensive about it.
Care to elaborate?

Let's just post dumbo

Explain why it is bad. Is having birds act like black people really so terrible? If so, why? Muh fee fees? Any valid reasons?
takimag.com/article/whats_the_matter_with_blackface_gavin_mcinnes/print#axzz4Zxx42C7G

They are clearly portraying crows as a stereotypical black guy, when black people were just in movies to be laughed at. Or do you just miss the good ole days?

Omage? Don't insult this boards intelligence.

It's less in the dialogue and more in the attitude. It's a very "yus mastha, of course mastah" stereotype. As well as:

>Are they actually racist stereotypes or are we just projecting it because we're looking at it from a modern day viewpoint?

Neither.

They are about as stereotypical as Timothy Q. Mouse, the mouse in Dumbo.

You're making a common error. A work cannot be inherently offensive. You need an audience, and a point in time to make that determination.

No evidence of them being stereotypes, so no. People just assume they're stereotypical because of their own views on race and racism. They don't understand either, and they assume others don't as well.

Well im afraid im not spotting it, i just see them as being a bunch of cool guys who help Dumbo out of a tree.

Could have something to do with the fact that im not American and so i havent been told forever about how a black guy acts, either in 1930s nor in present day.

thanks for being proof of OP: Don't just believe something because someone claims it or because it seems correct or matches up with your beliefs. Demand evidence, especially when it comes to accusation of exploitation.

The problem is that there are retarded people who have made shit like this into part of the curriculum of entire university courses

Honestly it would be easier to start destroying things like this movie so that the people who whine about it shut the fuck up

And if they don't shut up we cut out their tongues and put out their eyes so they can neither speak nor see again

Because it was an inaccurate, and mean spirited portrayal of how the white man saw black people. It wasn't something they were laughing with black people, they were flat out laughing at them.

It was equivalent of a 5 year old making fun of something just because they were different. Immature, childish, and added very little to any sort of plot.

>hurr durr, these niggers are black and eat watamelens and say massa

If you honestly dont see the issue with this, you are beyond saving. Jump into a fire. Read ANY bit of the shit that went down, during that time period. It also was dehumanizing and continued the notion that black people were just dumb niggers that needed to serve the white man.

stop using made up explanations, if they weren't racist they would have been in Dumbo 2, which they weren't because of the implications of having a literal Jim "crow" along with other crows played by black men and the main crow voiced by a white man using common speech characteristics that are often parodied in early 29th century cartoons and features.

>blaxploitation
I don't think you're using that word right.

THERE WAS A DUMBO 2??

>that are often parodied in early 29th century cartoons and features.

Well shit, sorry, didnt know this was still such a hot topic 1000 years from now...

they're in other films and cartoons, so I guess they're not racist at all

and again, NO EVIDENCE for your claims

planned to be, never saw the light of day, just a trailer:

youtube.com/watch?v=fpac3C3P76Q

Aside from Timothy, they were the only characters who felt bad for Dumbo and actually helped him. I didn't understand as a kid that they were supposed to be black people, but if I had realized that back then, I probably would've thought "wow, black people are cool".

Yeah the world kinda just gets stuck in a time loop sometime around 2041

>Demand evidence

Problem is, if I were to ever link you someone else's deconstruction on why they are stereotypes with other references made throughout Hollywood's history, you'd still call bullshit on it because people like you are so gun-ho on being as anti-SJW as possible, you end up flipping on the other side and convincing yourselves, "T-the crows can't be stereotypes! Because they're good guys who help Dumbo!".

Stereotypes aren't inherently bad. Sandy Cheeks is a Texan stereotype. Hermes is a Jamaican stereotype. Speedy is a stereotype. That doesn't make them inherently bad or "wrong", but they are stereotypes.

>If you honestly dont see the issue with this, you are beyond saving. Jump into a fire.

Nice hate speech. Reported.

You really think racism is just... you know... over? Fuck off you privileged cunt. Yeah I said it.

You're just being difficult at this point. You're feigning ignorance. Just fucking admit you like seeing this disingenuous depiction of niggers, take your racist card, shove it up your ass and just not care. Why even bother trying to hide it? Nobody is going to do shit to you. The worst is, "ohh this guy is a piece of shit".

Well see, the thing is, I don't know about americans, but most people can tell the difference between reality and fiction.

Like, when I saw those crows as a kid, I didn't immediately assume all black people talked like that.

Yeah i know, it's ok to hate whites, i fucking get it.

Jump into two fires after equally basting yourself on each side. So you can be uhxtra crispy like massa fried sicken!

fuck off You're not just a cunt, you're a tattle tail cunt.

The crows are total bros to Dumbo, the "Jim Crow" pun was probably a bit on the nose at the time, but nothing about these characters is really bad or dislikable. And some black people did fucking talk like that (and some still pretty much do) it's no more offensive than a foriegn or regional actor's actual stereotypical accent of the place they're from.

>no amusing stereotypes of people who were historically oppressed allowed
>even if they are fairly accurate and black people are capable of laughing at themselves
Frankly if you legitimately find these guys offensive and aren't just pretending for (you)'s, I don't care what color it is, you've got some thin fucking skin.

>takimag.com/article/whats_the_matter_with_blackface_gavin_mcinnes/print#axzz4Zxx42C7G

the second reason given is the real one, the rest is a lot of repetition, some strawmanning and cherrypicking quotes from morons to try to somehow weaken the opposing argument

pic related is the counterargument to reason 2... how does this constitute an argument in any way?

the whole article is written based on the unspoken assumption that black oppression ended forever on may 9 of 1865

OP asked if they were racist stereotypes. The crows are stereotypes of black people during that time period.
Whether they are good or bad depictions doesn't really change the fact that it's racist. If I say "all Asians are good at math" there is a broader implication of what is wrong with that assertion that goes beyond the intent of the statement or how it makes one person feel over the other.

>shit I don't have evidence, what should I do?
>I know, I'll just make up some BS about the user
>that certainly isn't a personal attack
>also, I'll throw in a line about stereotypes that completely destroys my argument about the crows being racist

Remember kids, it's ok when liberals do it!

They're a stereotype but they're also the only people in the entire movie to give Dumbo a shot despite it all.

So the stereotype is "black people are goofy but morally superior to whites."

Course not. It's never ever going to end when being poor and uneducated is classified as race-specific oppression

Do you honestly think that "Hey there is a side to America that white people DO NOT SEE" equals "kill whitey"? If that is where your brain jumps to, you are seriosuly fucked up. Does it take that much of a leap, just so you can delegitiize how fucking shit cops are? How many unproportionate arrests there are?

If you had a gun at you hip and got pulled over, think you'd be okay? probably. Change your skin tone and you have to walk on egg shells just to get out alive.

>inb4 niggers shouldn't back talk cops
a. It really doesn't happen that much
b. even if it did, does backtalking a cop equal a death warrant? You're legitimately ignorant for the sake of being ignorant. You're the worst kind of person.

I don't hate you because you are white, I hate you because you are a narrow minded cunt.

>racism is good or bad when I say it is

wow, great argument

Saying "racism is over" refers to the fact that the great, GREAT majority of people don't mind race. At all. Or at least used to, things have changed a lot in a few years.

Of course there's gonna be a few racist people, in the same way that there's always gonna be murderers, sadists and people with mental disorders. It happens. And when it happens, it should be treated on a case-by-case basis.

>implying libtard
fuck off with your them verussus bull shit.

I'm just glad they're focusing on cops so they continue to ignore black-on-black violence.

Just because the jive stereotype is not prevalent now doesn't mean it was not a stereotype back then.

Sorry the only rebuttal you could think of was greentext because you're so uninformed of how people were treated outside of the last decade.

There are at least half a dozen things off the top of my head you are overlooking when making that statement, and if you can't or refuse to see that then there is really no helping someone like you.

Same. I am Dutch and never saw them as racist util the internet yelled at me about them. I thought they were just goofballs who were helping Dumbo.

Americans are so sensitive about everything.

>no evidence

Guess I shouldn't be looking for water in a dry well.

>when black people were just in movies to be laughed at.

The most common movie trope from that era involving black people is the "magical negro" trope, where a simple-living yet intellectually underestimated black person bestows great wisdom upon the muddled and mixed up white central characters. This character was about as commonly laughed at as Yoda. Don't talk out of your ass and confuse minstrel shows with actual films.

If I watched a Japanese film and saw a Korean character portrayed in a certain way that was considered stereotypical to people in Asia, just because I don't see it because I'm not familiar enough with their society doesn't make it "not a stereotype".

The musical number wasn't out of line for other jazz and swing works that you'd find at the Apollo or Cotton Club.

Works made by black people for black audiences.

It's on par with modern bigots calling Cab Calloway a racist.

Audio related.

youtube.com/watch?v=svoSSdsNhtA

>the main crow was voiced by a white man and was named Jim Crow

is this what jim crow laws are named after

Oh yeah, interesting thing about that. White on white crimes are just as proportional to black on black. Of fucking COURSE when you take statistics from a black community black on black will be high.

jesus. Now if you actually look at NATIONAL numbers, there is a ridiculously disproportionate number of African Americans.

Are you really that much in denial that you can't even admit there is a fucking problem?

Fucking. Americans.

LOL people like you are why Trump is gonna sew dicks back onto your tranny friends. no racism in those nigger crows don't worry

Course there is, what I said was very simple

What "evidence" do you want exactly? A wikipedia link to "Black life in 1950s"? Like, are you really that uneducated or something that you need to be spoonfed basic history?

>fuck off with your them verussus bull shit
>telling someone that they don't deserve to live if they don't find something non-harmful to be disturbing

You started it.

Wrong board, Sup Forums is that way.

Did you just assume my nationality?

>Whether they are good or bad depictions doesn't really change the fact that it's racist
>racism is good or bad when I say it is

Are you seriously that fucked up that you are comparing racial depictions of black people to fucking YODA?

Really? Reaching. You are fucking reaching. But please, tell me all about how awesome and wonderful people were like when treating black people back then.

I've never understood why the magical negro was offensive.

It's basically saying "black people are smarter and wiser than white people and probably have magic powers". How the fuck is that a negative stereotype?

No. The Jim Crow figure the crow's name is based on is the name giver for the laws.

>You really think racism is just... you know... over? Fuck off you privileged cunt. Yeah I said it.

Racism is about as integral to the human experience as wanting to fuck. Racism isn't inherently bad because everyone is inherently racist. It's only when you express racism negatively that it becomes an issue.

This.

Yes. It's easy to fucking read. Only Americans have this much delusion and aversion to facts.

You appear to be upset

Have a meme and calm down

>Jim the Crow
>Dumbo (1941)
>Jim Crow
>between 1877 and the mid-1960s

It's the same as "all Asians are good at math". Generalization is negative overall because it paints people with traits they may not have just because of physical appearance.

I think that's your problem.
Phobia of stereotypes.

Or it could be that in Europe we are just too used to stereotyping other Europeans, giving them accents and ways they work and so on and so forth and then when you watch anything American they are suddenly walking on eggshells with stereotypes.

>I still lack evidence, what should I do now?
>I'll call user a retard for not agreeing with me

I think some people's real issue is when they're usually wisdom dispensers for white people or whatever.

Yes.

>I can greentext too.

Doesn't make it an argument.

youtube.com/watch?v=j9lG6uCOSH4

Yes, I am comparing the character to Yoda. In fact Yoda was even more negatively conveyed because he at least had that part of the film where Luke thought he was just a stupid obnoxious gremlin. Compare that to magical negro characters, who were never portrayed negatively; they were always given as little screentime as possible so they could bestow their great wisdom upon the protagonists and then leave the movie.

Now that's ACTUAL racism, since a lot of directors didn't want to cast a spotlight on black actors or have to pay them too much or invite them to premieres. You should be focusing on that instead of bitching about human nature and being pic related.

They are racial stereotypes, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's racist

The difference how much is it used to hurt them in real life

makes sense, a lot of europe is racist as fuck

Wow, how racist of you

Let's not forget how there are other countries that still execute people for witchcraft

Half the shitposters on this thread jerk off to "Birth of a Nation"
We shouldn't pretend that anyone here doesn't know all this crap is hateposting, just like the last ten times this same trollthread was posted.

Where are the fucking MODS???

>crows

>southern

>exaggerated black affectations

Gee, I wonder.

Is there a database somewhere I can lookup whether or not certain stereotypes are too offensive to use?

I think whips and slavery and lacking equal rights hurt black people more than how they were portrayed in fucking Dumbo

the birds are pretty racist, not as racist as The Song of the South but they have played Dumbo on TV in like 35 years for a reason, all the video releases have a "hey it was a different time" PSA

and it's easy to be insensitive when you when your minority population is so small they have no voice to say "Hey, I don't like that", In America we have to get along as best we can

What is wrong with stereotypes? Almost all comedy is based on stereotypes, and a lot of fiction is too. Especially in Disney movies. Stereotypes are not inherently racist, and they only become stereotypes because they are partly true. There is nothing inherently racist about those crows. Or is the fat bastard in Austin Powers racist against Dutch people too?

It's like 4AM, the mods are asleep.

>Everyone i dont like is [INSERT TERM OF THE MONTH HERE]

>hateposting
Is... is this a term now?

I already stated and agreed with that sentiment way back here: People still got pissed off.

I thought Fat bastard was supposed to be Scottish.

>x country still does this
>that means the shit we deal with here is dismissible

Hey, you know in some countries there are still beheadings? That means school shootings in America are just things to whine about. It's not that bad in the grand scheme of things, right?

Fuck off with your stupid ass logic.

BACK
TO
TUMBLR

>Thread posted 49 minutes ago
>Almost 100 replies
>Nearly 4AM

Sup Forums never sleeps.

user, i think we have just met a native who has traveled all the way here from the rain forests of Tumblr.

they also don't have to deal with white guilt so they don't have to give a shit in the first place

Yeah, everyone is biased, it's the number one human trait. Guess what, minorities are racist too.