The ENTIRETY of her character is "I am badass and better than the original Hawkeye without even trying, and all the others Marvel's characters will say how amazing I am at every opportunity".
And the readers LIKE it. LOVE it. Asked for more. And now Marvel is giving them more.
So, if you are a Kate Bishop's fan (fucking why?), you are to blame for shit like YAAS QUEEN! and Ms America BEST MAMA JAMA.
I like Kate for the same reason I like Clint, they're cocky outspoken assholes
I just think it's goofy she became a superhero because a homeless man raped her in the ass. Like it's so bad it sounds like a parody.
Yeah, but the Marvel Universe doesn't scream "YOU HAVE TO LIKE CLINT BECAUSE HE IS AWESOME AND THE REAL HAWKEYE".
Having Clint murder Banner and then putting him on tripe like Occupy Avengers isn't gonna help matters either.
That's not Kamala.
Would you like some cheese with that whine?
You're both wrong, it's /this/ cunt.
I kind of like that Kate is just as dumb as Clint is but she's convinced herself that she's way better than him. Her solo arc in Fraction's Hawkeye was basically her getting beat down a little to show that she's not actually better than Clint.
Also, despite being a hip youngster, she has absolutely no idea how to use computers.
what
Kamala is fine. That's the only one that got the tone of classic Peter Parker style slice of life heroism right. Then she was fucked up by the events.
>hip youngster
Young hipster
>that got the tone of classic Peter Parker style slice of life heroism right.
Eh, not mean spirited enough.
It's ok OP her book was a failure
Issue 1 was at 16 with 70,884
Issue 2 was at 102 with 27,049
>it's a "what singular thing caused marvel to be shit" thread
Lol what is your only exposure to Kate the hawkeye series where they flanderized her ego?Kate was never better than Clint that was always acknowledge before and after he came back,Whatever she's become now is a symptom of what's troubling marvel not a cause,she was about as superior to Clint as Tim was to Dick,close but far less ambitious and talented
>>it's a "what singular thing caused marvel to be shit" thread
This. Seriously this.
This is what makes me mourn what Marvel once was. It was good, great even. Alas no longer.
Miles is on his own level of bad. The female hero genre at Marvel is a different beast, because the writers keep reinforcing the same quirky slice-of-life writing style every time. The only character avoiding this has been Black Widow. She-Hulk has been ruined by this recent fad as well. Pic related.
By the way, this picture isn't photoshopped. Only cropped. This was actually published.
the real shame is she was nothing like that when she was first introduced in Young Avengers
>Eh, not mean spirited enough.
That's a good thing, it gets too unbearable after a while
Right.
A major aspect of her characterization in Fraction's run was that she could also be a total fuckup.
But readers and writers only seem to remember those early issues before the book got into that and she was portrayed as perfect.
>She-Hulk has been ruined by this recent fad as well.
Isn't she the quirky Hulk that breaks the 4th wall all the time though?
That wasn't the same. She wasn't "quirky" in the same way that females heroes are "quirky" today. Her book was actually funny and had sex appeal to boot.
Nah man, it was either Civil War or Avengers Disassembled. Marvel's problems as a whole started before Kate got wanked to high heaven and would continue even if she wasn't a thing.
Reminder Kate ha completely accepted her inferiority to Clint as was willing to drop the mantle but was stopped by Clint being nice and encouraging her to try to get on his level,her being a smart ass about it isn't exactly solid proof she's the root cause of the problem
>and she was portrayed as perfect.
And Gillen cemented the idea.
>B-but she wasn't like this befor-
It doesn't matter. She is like this now, and is actually this version that is popular.
source?
>This was actually published.
im retarded
what's wrong with that picture?
It's weird how influential Gillen's Young Avengers ended up being considering how boring and lame it was.
>source
>kids who never even read her Heinberg years go "b-b-but is that true"
Holy fuck
I'm finally an oldfag now.
No one is arguing that Kate got flanderized but her flanderization into "I'm the best hawkeye" is a RESULT of modern marvel,hardly the cause.Thats like blaming she hulk for starting the slice of life trend of marvel books because she was given one recently
No her costume is too lewd to be SJW. It's Carol's fault.
I haven't read Heinberg's YA in years.
that didn't look like Cheung's art to me.
I'm just amazed Young Avengers got off the ground as a concept.
It helps when it launched it was more concerned with telling a story than letting pandering take center place quite a lot of the time.
>The OP image is considered lewd now.
We've gone too far, I wanna go back.
Kamala isn't fine at all
her book is tumblr-tier writing
That's what someone from Sup Forumsmblr would say
It also helps that Teen Titans and Young Justice proved to them that a ongoing about a team consisting of legacy heroes could be a success.
b-b-but user!
it's totally fine and the only problem is that ONLY JUST recently they began to put her in group books and using her as a mouthpiece
C'mon, user.
Let's be honest here, Kamala's book is less than good for at least a year already.
It's kind of lewd in the sense that it confirms Kate wears no panties.
Ms. Marvel isn't a good book at all, Kamala could be cool if she had an ok writer
But dem side holes tho
I'm just amazed Gillen's YA is considered good at all;
"Come with me with you wanna be awesome"? For fucks sake. And the idiocy of the first arc is unbelievable.
that Hawkeye/Deadpool mini was great.
Her origin in young avengers has her talk about how she got ass raped in central park and decided to become a superhero. No bullshit.
Except Kate is an actual good character.
It really was bad,worse of it ruined Wiccan and Hulkling by cementing them from one dimensional characters with cool back stories to eternal gay romance cliches
Sounds more like something Image would do.
I'm of the opinion it starts fair but becomes a trainwreck right after the (intriguing, but went absolutely nowhere) GHOST PATRIOT issue.
This shit and Tumblr praising it for it will piss me off until the end of time.
I like Gillen's writing but sometimes it can feel a bit smug.
>that may solicit for Gwenpool/(Real hawkeye)
>Did you know Wiccan and Hulking are gay?
>'Cause I didn't.
Every time they call her the real hawkeye, it just signals that she isn't the real one. Which is hilarious.
Then you're the target audience for America and Wasp.
Hard to believe he made Godhunter really.
It's not one character that is to blame you myopic fuckup. Think back to the whole OMD thing and imagine that Marvel just sees their characters as product they need to sell so they decided to rollback Spider-Man in the stupidest way to tell the Parker Luck shit over and over. So we establish that Marvel sees them as product, right? Well right now they're putting product in competition with their other product (rather than having it work side by side) and trying to publically rip apart their selling product in favor of the new one, which is actually a pretty bad business move. Remember New Coke?
"All the other characters say how amazing I am" seems to be Marvel way of trying to get readers to like a character.
It's less that they were revealed as gay,heinberg did that first,it's more of how frustrating how hulklings issues with his dead mom and battling heritages and inferiority complex was all thrown out or just used as angst for more romance spiel,same with Wiccan.There gay but the whole"But does he love me or is he possessing me?!?" Sctick has gone on too long
To be fair she was,Clint was dead and came back secretly with a new name,her being hawkeye made sense,her keeping the name makes sense,Her bragging about being the greatest and Clint also bowing to her presence now?Nonsense
we'll have to agree to disagree. Someone dying doesn't make you shit. There is a presumption that doesn't mean anything.
She's even a bigger fuck up, because she's naive, which he's not, by sheer life experience.
Each one of them has their personal traits, even if they're very much alike to the core: she's very much like the classic, old Hawkeye, much the playful part. He's nowadays a much more mellowed and way less of an idealist, and a bit more honor driven, which is fun.
Both of them still have a lot of temper and a too much big mouth..
Let's get this straight.
This character is DEAD and will never come back. She was totally replaced by it
It's funny really, since the reverse works a lot better.
One of my favourite characters is Moon Knight, and all other characters have to say about him is how much of a dangerous nutcase he is. He's seen as unstable, monstrous, and that makes him doing something awesome stand out even more.
Or hell, think back to Spider-Man's debut where everyone was either afraid of him, or distrusted him for the Bugle smearjob. It made him an underdog to root for, and made him look heroic for saving the day in spite of all the shit he had to go through.
She didn't get raped, she was attacked, tho.
And Lemire's run, which is awful and a mess, did recon her in being a Clint shipper since he rescued her when she was like 10 or so.
You need to improve you bait, mate.
you took it, so it worked pretty well cad.
People /still/ hate Peter and think he's annoying as fuck.
Just look at Marvel's other popular characters too.
X-Men are considered dangerous.
Hulk is treated like a monster.
Punisher receives contempt from the hero community for being too aggressive.
There's a reason people like these characters, they're complex and the world around them gives a realistic representation of how people would act to people like that.
people don't shit on deadpool as much anymore. It was kind of funny watching ms.marvel try to talk shit to him as if he didn't just save the day.
>She-Hulk has been ruined by this recent fad as well
No she hasn't. Just because you don't find her recent series fap-worthy doesn't mean it's bad.
>Spider-Man and X-Men were distrusted and had to work hard for their reputation.
>The two most successful Marvel's franchises.
>Carol Danvers and Inhumans are shilled endlessly.
>It backfires big time.
They should have learned by now.
I was outspoken on Kate sucking way back when Fraction Hawkeye was starting, and you all shat on me. You guys deserved this hell.
I feel like the biggest misstep of the Inhumans push recently, is you have this fucking city that crashes into part of New York...and everyone's kinda okay with that after 2 issues?
the anti-inhuman bigotry just disappeared after a few issues as well.
I guess they didn't want to deal with the mutie/inhuman comparisons too much, but they definitely glossed over the hated and feared parts that would have helped build Inhumans as a group to root for.
>People /still/ hate Peter and think he's annoying as fuck.
Most of that in the 00's and 10's is bad writing though. It was more believable when he was in high school, less so for an adult who's been doing it for a long time and teamed up with a lot of the heroes.
Well, DC eventually stopped shitting on the living room carpet. I'm sure Marvel can learn the same lesson soon.
but Fraction had a good handle on Kate.
the only times Kate was really shit prior to this book was Gillen's YA, but except for Loki and Noh-Varr, everyone was kinda shit in that book (and I say that as an unironic Gillen fan)
its mostly the bad jokes and incessant talking.
Because I'm bored enough to get baited. Like now.
Why do people hate Kate, but never complain about the loser who is impersonating Clint Barton since House of M?
I feel like dying and being resurrected might have had some sort of affect on Clint
He's just going over a lot of shit and recovering from it.
It's not the first time he's depressed, right?
You will see! Ten years are nothing!
Yeah she was ass raped Jessica Jones even asks her who knows and Kate says only her therapist and her. You don't get therapy because someone stole your purse or treat it like a shameful secret.
Because since House of M Clint was written only by Bendis and Fraction, and:
1 - Everyone shits on Bendis already
2 - Fraction's Clint is incredibly OOC, but his run is somewhat a Sacred Cow, so nobody says shit.
If that's from Alias or JJ, I refuse to read it.
I think he was disputing the ass-rape part, not the rape itself part.
It's from young avengers,the series Kate premiered in you pleb
That or Wanda messed things up when she brought him back.
Maybe it's like in X-Factor where Guido was resurrected, but without his soul and became a giant asshole.
I-I'm sorry.
Does it really make any difference?
My bad. I meant the rape part. I was misremembering stuff.
enough for him to take the bait so apparently he doesn't like the thought of real hawkeye taking it up the ass.
He probably looked up her WIKI ENTRY where it says "Katie was ATTACKED when she grew up but the LEVEL OF THE ASSAULT HAS NOT BEEN REVEALED YET".
You know, give it a few years and they'll likely be referring to Miles as 'the real Spider-Man.'
It's ok, guys, don't bully me.
I'm just too bored to do anything, look anything, read anything, download anithing. I'm really easy to bait.
Really, it's Ok. Thank you, guys.
I wonder if that's the case with everyone else who's died and resurrected (not counting something like Infinity Gauntlet).
Spider-Man: died and resurrected in The Other, then it leads to his decisions in Civil War and One More Day
Captain America: died post-Civil War, then after coming back did things like look the other way as his Secret Avengers tortured people, joined the Illuminati, made major blunders in AvX that he shouldn't have, spent the last day of Earth during the incursion beating on Iron Man instead of helping to lead the Avengers.
Any other possible examples?
I hope bendis tries this bullshit, it might be the think finally takes that hack down.
After the inevitable implosion of Peter under Slott, I don't doubt it.
I feel like this is giving them intentional abilities that these writers do not have and would be one of the greatest writing twists that spans a decade. It's just not possible.
>All spiderman movies feature peter
>him ever not being the real spiderman