DC Universe

Very well Sup Forums... Who sank the DC universe?

a) Charles Roven and Deborah Snyder
b) Zack Snyder and David Ayer
c) Chris Terrio and David S. Goyer
d) WB
e) All of the above

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I say A, B, & C. WB wouldn't be so gunshy if the guy helming their cinematic universe wasn't a retard.

Disney did it. #dontblamezack

Tsujihara. He wanted a 2 hour JL. There's no doubt in my mind he was the one who fucked over BvS and SS.

Zack Snyder is the one element that, if removed from the process completely after MOS, gives the DCEU the greatest chance for solid movies.

Even the man's "good" films are either derivative or poo disguised as fudge.

Sudoku when ?

B and C. Just because a movie has "artistic integrity" and I use that term loosely doesn't mean it is good. BvS is a steaming pile of shit and even without studio interference and Whedon, you know JL would have been just as bad, if not worse.

I concur

C and D, I don't like any of Snyder's movies but what I think of his movies is irrelevant. I think they'd still be better received if the studio didn't try changing directions so much and if Goyer wasn't a hack who got lucky with the Blade update.

How about the faggoty "fans" who freaked out WB after BvS with all the "Its Literally Ishtar" (look it up) bullshit.

If not for the rotten tomatoes lets say this was the 1980s? WB makes Justice League a Snyder trilogy and doesn't screw with it too much because it made money and we get the satisfying and probably greatest superhero trilogy ever and the greatest take on the Superman mythos and best Batman ever.

Disney did. They raised the standards for capeshit to the point that Snyder couldn't meet.

This. Marvel's most recent capeflick was Thor when MOS started filming.
Snyderverse didn't stand a chance and WB had no idea.

This. He got a pass after MOS because people blamed it on residual resentment towards the Singer movie, even though most of the criticism of MOS had to do with its content.

MOS was a very flawed movie, but its problems could have been fixable. BvS doubled down on all of the problems and made it all unsalvageable.

He should have been gone immediately after BvS. It was a hit, but everyone knew it should have done better. Giving this guy free reign on JL was beyond stupid. Marvel didn't even give Whedon free reign on Avengers. So of course he was going to shit it up.

>Charles Roven


>Charles Roven (born August 2, 1949)[1] is an American film producer and the president and co-founder of Atlas Entertainment. He is probably best known for producing the superhero films The Dark Knight Trilogy, Suicide Squad, Man of Steel, Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice and more.[2]
He was married to producer Dawn Steel from 1985 until her death in 1997.[3]

>Dawn Steel

his dead wife's name was DAWN STEEL.


Dawn of Justice

Man of Steel


It's like pottery.

Honestly I think MOS wouldn't be nearly as polarizing as it is today if they had followed up with solid movies instead of what they ended up giving us.

I concur

Maybe, but all they had to do was make quality films. You can do serious, non-quipy capeshit and still have it be good. Most of the X-Men films are are perfect example. Or Hellboy. Or Blade.

The problem with the Snyderverse is that it's just not good.

Oh I completely agree with you. I just think the bar got raised to a point that Snyder's trash films are being recognized for what they are instead of getting a pass like they may have ~20 years ago.

Captain Boomerang is the key to all of this.

Yeah, that is true.

Making it under two hours so they could cram in as many showings as possible was probably smart. It wasn't gonna be a good movie no matter what. BvS wasn't under two hours so what's your excuse with that?

Inb4 audiences too dumb to get BvS.
Everyone gets all the shit you guys point, but you don't seem to be able to tell that it feels like it's written by a 14 year old.

D. While the others are culpable, the fact is they all had people above them that let all of this happen.
Sure, shit rolls downhill, but it comes from higher up.

Yep. At the end of the day, WB are the adults in the room.

Biggest difference between DC and Marvel? Marvel didn't let Edward Norton keep shitting up the MCU
and making creative calls he had no business making after Incredible Hulk bombed.

DC films have been a trainwreck even before this because of WB. If WB is really serious about salvaging everything they need to make DC films its own division.

>Snyder's trash films are being recognized for what they are instead of getting a pass like they may have ~20 years ago.
The big problem I have with snyder is that he got too big way to fast. He made the studios a lot of money with dawn of the dead, 300, and watch men. They're not "great" movies, but they were slick and audiences liked them, and as long as he was making money the studios didn't care.
The problem is that he's not a very mature director and not at all challenging.
I appreciate that he has passion, and in interviews he seems like a genuinely nice guy with some real passion, but he went right from directing music videos to multi million dollar tent pole movies almost overnight. I think he would have grown more as a director if he had spent more time as a working director.
Honestly thats my problem with a lot of new contemporary directors.

At this point I think the best way to save the DCEU is to hard reboot the entire franchise starting with Reeves' Batman. (can keep Wonder Woman around since general audience loves her but I'd retcon everything after WW1)

small thing but fucking hell what was with their desire to grey scale the fuck out of everything?

fug forgot pic :DDDDD

They're going to keep Ezra. He's had a very positive reaction

See: Josh Trank.

Ironically the problem you're identifying is also the underlying issue at the heart of the DCEU: WB wants Avengers money now and isn't willing to take the time to build it up.
No way F4 should've been Trank's 2nd movie, and no way BVS should've been the DCEU's.

>DC films have been a trainwreck even before this because of WB.
I don't know, the nolan movies were fine enough. Only studio interference I can recall is that they really pushed him to do DKR before he might have wanted to, but hell he signed a deal for 3 batman movies, so what can you do.
Even with man of steel, I didn't hate the movie (until the obnoxious ending fight scene).

I saw JL last night. It's amazing how much better Superman looks in the bright suit

True, and that would leave open the possibility for a soft reboot via Flashpoint.

All said though, I think it's gonna take a drastic change of course for general audiences to keep giving the DCEU chances.
Most people have no idea what Flashpoint is (nor do they give a fuck), so it seems like something drastic/headline-y is the best way to restore audience faith.

The funny think about Trank is that disney had him tapped for the boba fett movie before he had his meltdown.

kys faggot

No but nobody wants to compare DC to say X-Men its always gotta be compared to Avengers and the best Disney has to offer though. BvS outgrossed every X-Men including Deadpool and if that was our standard it would be fine.

Disney's bar is so impossible now that even Thor 3 could be a much better movie than "Avengers: DC"

WB felt the pressure and decided they wanted to be where Disney was so MoS was a good 8/10 movie with some controversy that got shoehorned into a rushjob with an auteur director.

Then Marvel simply laughed as they effortlessly delivered us Civil War while DC floundered with BvS. At this point WB is like trying to sell us a smartphone of the same power as like a Galaxy Note 6 or whatnot and Disney is on that iPhone X shit.

I honestly loved a lot of Snyder's ideas about Superman. vis a vis the media and how they would really treat Supes looks really relevant like how they treat huge figures like Trump or various other flavors of the month, they get treated less than human and more like purely good purely evil.

I think the problem with Snyder is yes that inexperience to admit when things just aren't working. The confidence to tell a Jesse Eisenberg tone it down or read Lex Luthor comics or watch Gene Hackman, we love your ideas Jesse but don't go nuts.

If it was codirected by Snyder and Nolan I think Nolan would enjoy the creative input and visual ideas but would be much smarter in how to portray them and tougher on his actors than Snyder.

Yeah he really fucked himself, could've become a safe-bet franchise director making bank but he played himself.

You can make bad movies (maybe not F4-level, but that's pretty much bottom-rung), but the second you get a reputation of being hard to work with, you're done.

le amusement park owner face

Agreed. But why would Nolan ever want to co-direct with a retarded person.

Considering I'll never buy/re-watch again Suicide Squad nor Wonder Skeleton I only hope JL will not be THAT bad so it can close the MoS - BvS trilogy in a decent way.
Am I asking too much?

Yeah, that is true. Nolan seemed to be one of the few people who knew what he was doing. What I was referring to was everything else. Catwoman was in development hell for decades, and WB execs finally just took charge of it and see what happened.

>Even with man of steel, I didn't hate the movie (until the obnoxious ending fight scene).

I felt the same way. Its problems could have been fixed with the next one, but Snyder doubled down on everything people hated about it with BvS. Because muh 9/11 allegory.

>>it took 3 movies to get to where we should've started in the first place.
If that sounds like you're cup of tea then have at it.

They could easily make Aquaman into a post-WWII movie where Diana Prince investigates the supposed Atlantis discovery and then she meets Aquaman. They could make it more about Amber Heard so we can get a honestly hot sexy woman in DC.

I think Snyder wanted to make the viewer put off on purpose like break your whole idea of Superman and cause you to consider it a very different tale.

It's fine. The effects can be pretty bad and Steppenwolf kinda sucks but the interactions between the league are pretty good

Well, I think MoS was proof Snyder wasn't really retarded though but Snyder is also very immature.

I guess I just think retarded is going too far. Remember he cowrote Wonder Woman which de facto saved DC too I think Snyder is talented just he needs a mentor in Nolan to be a good director rather than just unpolished but bright.

Everyone except Zack Snyder.

Nolan could see the writing on the wall. That fight that destroyed Metropolis at the end of MOS and killing Zod was all Snyder's idea he shoehorned in at the last minute so it would be "epic." It wasn't in Nolan's script. By that point Nolan had lost interest and was doing is own projects and was like "OK, sure Zack. Have Superman kill everyone. Go crazy. I'm out. This won't be on me."

What bother's me is that Snyder delivers utter trash, then has the arrogance to claim "people don't like seeing heroes deconstructed"
No dumbass, we want to see them deconstructed in ways that illustrate you even understand the characters in the first place.
The mental gymnastics this guy does, FFS

>I honestly loved a lot of Snyder's ideas about Superman. vis a vis the media and how they would really treat Supes looks really relevant like how they treat huge figures like Trump or various other flavors of the month, they get treated less than human and more like purely good purely evil.
I'm not wild about angsty supes (but thats just literally not muh superman), I agree. There are some really interesting threads, but they're not so much woven into atapestry as they are just a tangled mess, but I think a lot of those are issues with the script in BVS. There are elements of several different movies just kind of jammed together.
I would have liked to see all the superman and lex stuff pulled out of the movie and made into a man of steel sequel in its own right, and then give us a solo batman movie (homoerotic crossfit montage aside I really liked batfleck).
THEN you make a batman vs. Superman movie to introduce justice league elements.

>origin story comes out
>wah wah another origin story what the fuck we already know
>character is treated as already established
>wah wah why isn't there a whole movie about his backstory

WB is turning into Amy Pascal's Sony Picture.
I've been saying it for years now. They're driven by marketing data and execs interference is standard practice. This isn't Kubrick's WB anymore. This isn't the mature studio taking high risks with quality directors anymore. This is the Snyder's turf now, so good fucking luck with that. Meanwhile a guy like Scorsese who should be hired by any major cant finance a gangster movie with Deniro and Joe Pesci and has been forced to turn to netflix. Let that sink in.

I like MOS but can't help but think of it as a missed opportunity:

>>youtube.com/watch?v=T6DJcgm3wNY

I don't think I've ever been as hyped after watching a trailer. Which is really a shame because, while the movie wasn't terrible, it definitely left a 'meh' taste in my mouth.

Whoever's responsible for every single DC movie getting 10 reshoots and a new director half way through production

When I want to see a "mature" movie, I don't go see some fucking capeshit where people in spandex punch eachother. These movies work far better when they don't take themselves seriously.

>DC movies would be considered good if they existed in a vacuum and nobody held them to any standards

Neck yourself.

WB & DC

This is what the DCEU should've been. Kind of unbelievable we see Krypton in the first 10 minutes of MOS but have barely glimpsed beyond Metropolis/Gotham in the movies that have followed.

DCEU fanboys are the sonic fans of capeshit.

C

This. They gave him way too much power over the whole thing. Marvel handed off each movie to different directors in almost every instance aside from Whedon and the Russo brothers.

It keeps things fresh and changing. Snyder is a one trick pony.

WB and Snyder for most part. A lot of the dumb calls were made by Warner tho, so it's on them.

God this trailer is so good. I remember thinking the DCEU would tell stories that would resonate with me more as I got older (and outgrew some of the simplicity of the MCU).
Instead we got BVS and a philosophy 101 primer.

Honestly this trailer bums me out way more than any shitty RT score ever could

Split the difference and I think you're on to something.

the source material. doomed to fail in time. its fine for a few chuckles and flights of fancy when you're young, but to get stories with heart that tackle deep issues you should look elsewhere such as marvel.

>Zack Snyder has literally never made a good movie
>"Hey why don't we get him to be the main creative driving force for an entire series of films?"
It was doomed from the start

I preferred the second trailer

youtube.com/watch?v=KVu3gS7iJu4

No the source material is great. This is why it's frustrating

Pretty unbelievable how much the fortunes of DC and Marvel's IP's have reversed in the last decade.
>00's Marvel
Ang Lee Hulk, Daredevil, Spiderman 3, X-Men 3
>00's DC
Nolanverse
I know I'm cherrypicking here, but Marvel was really down on it's luck when Iron Man came out and DC was on top of the world.

Absolutely this. Any mediocre director would have been better since you have to be actively trying to fuck up this badly

>Watchmen was good
It literally wasn't.

Fiege saved Marvel honestly.
People can shit on the MCU but when everyone else is attempting to copy you; you're doing something right

I also believe that Watchmen is a steaming pile of shit, that's why I said that Snyder never made a good movie

That wasn't directed at you, it was directed at snyder fanboys who bring that horseshit movie up as an opening argument.
>in b4 should've in b4'd

agreed, if it wasn't for Rorschach and the Manhattan scenes it would be utter complete crap. Nice production values sorta faithfull to the source but that's it. And don't get me started on that endless sex scene to the tune of Leonard Cohen, Alan Moore must have puked his blood seeing that one.

You should've inb4'd my dude

I loved watching Snyder just miss the point of the source material for two goddamn hours
DUDE BAT NIPPLES LMAO

Whedon and MCU fanboys

This.

Good point, if there wasn't better competition out there, we'd have no choice but to watch Snyder's shitty movies!

It's not fair

daily reminder that you, and all dceu fanboys, are retarded. good luck sport.

i.imgur.com/uwuVBkc.gifv

All of them.

Reboot now:

>Less corporate interference,
>less focus on muh marketing
>Hire competent directors and writers, who actually understand and respect these characters
>stop giving a fuck about Marvel, >actually build your universe by introducing one hero at a time, the Justice League didnt happen before Aquaman got his own comic.
>Actually try and adapt storylines instead of mashing together the highlights of each.
>Make these characters the icons they are.

That's literally it. You don't have to make it overtly colorful or quippy, just give us the characters we know and love, with some convincing GCI, and an interesting plot. Boom guaranteed money and recognition.

Kevin Tsujihara is defnetly the final boss, literally Darkseid. Whedon is, adequately, Steppenwolf.
Snyder is something like a Harley Queen.

>Deborah Snyder
>Recalling their journey together, Ms. Snyder said she has gone from being someone who lived a “Sex and the City” life in Manhattan (out many nights, with weekends in the Hamptons) to a calmer more self-satisfied version of herself. “Now, I’m just content being with Zack, having my dogs, my family, my friends at my house,” she said. “I’m not looking for something else.”


what a fucking cuck

>Who sank the DC universe?
Reddit

Should have sucked the soul out of Nolan (and given him a couple hundred million) to at least make the JL movies.

>MoS was a good 8/10 movie

It was dogshit

BvS was written to be 3 hours. The studio signed off on the script. Tsujihara said yes to introducing a new gritty Batman, Wonder Woman, building a conflict between Batman and Superman, resolving it, and having Doomsday. While cameoing the Justice League.

He said yes to that and then wanted it cut by half an hour. Which impacted quality and reception. And now one of the big complaints about JL is that the story is thin. How much did they cut? 20 minutes this time? An hour?

Great female villain miniboss, with better Zod than the original, godlike soundtrack, best Superman flying scene, even if people hated that they fought around people, it still looked brutal when the slammed through buildings, interesting plot showing a darker more conflicted Superman that actually worked. It was good.

How bout the bug man?