Marvel says Hydra isn't Nazis anymore

Marvel says Hydra isn't Nazis anymore

But if they're not Nazis, then what are they? And what makes them bad?

It was one thing when Baron Strucker was wearing something called d a "Satan Claw" and feeding babies to mutated abominations as treats for well-executed acts of global terrorism, but since Spencer came along Hydra's ambitions are a lot less clear cut. There's a vague element of trying to take the piss out of racist/xenophobic populism but he's either too chickenshit to commit to that notion or doesn't have a clear idea of what he wants to demonstrate in the first place. So instead if just comes across as a vaguely threatening quasi political mob as oppposed to y'know, an evil organization.

So what exactly is modern Hydra's agenda? How affiliated is it with Red Skull? Does Red Skull still want to kill all mutants? Why is Marvel editorial so shit lately?

>Marvel says Hydra isn't Nazis anymore
LIES

Marvel is run by shit heads too afraid and too foolish to use their own history

Illuminati based on far-eastern warrior castes and realpolitik.

Who expected people to believe Hydra isn't a facade for Nazis anymore?

They aren't Nazis they are now the alternative right

With all the crazy enhancements he's shoved into himself on-and-off over the years, I keep forgetting that RS was originally just a spymaster in a fancy red mask.

i don't understand how realpolitik can be a concern for organization that doesn't actually have a nation or an established agenda and seems to change leadership more often than Kitty Pryde changes costumes?

Same thing they've always been. A SPECTRE pastiche mixed with occult ancient illuminati and a dash of super-terrorism.

I didn't watch the latest James Bond movie but I don't think it had Blofeld making appeals to down on their luck rustbelt sadsacks with nothing to lose

Was there ever any explanation for why Hydra were working for Crane Mother, Steel Serpent and Xao in Immortal Iron Fist?
It always seemed weird that mystical Asian warriors had an army of Nazi henchmen.

I thought alternative right was secular conservatives as opposed to Bible belt conservatives

To be completely honest, they haven't seemed like nazi fill ins for a very long time. I think because of how AIM/Hydra have been treated in last two decades..really to me they've felt more like 'Evil organization' ambitious, science driven mercs and scientists trying to achieve some goal, sometimes led by a group of people or just one individual and their goal is to get more power. In a very comic-booky kind of weight.

I mean yeah they have snazzy matching uniforms but we're not comparing it to italian fascism as its defining characteristic.

Between what the MCU has done and comics..Green Hydra of the comics feel very disconnected from the idea. Their history is nazi, and i'm sure they could be again, but right now none of the clandestine groups seem so. They're more like secret group analogs of the past.

They are whatever group of malcontents the media needs to throw under the bus at any given moment. I'm alt-right, you're alt-right, he-she-we, alt-right. There's a German guy down the left, and he says he's alt-right, but I don't think he means what everyone else means when he says that.

They're coming up with an alt-left, too, shit's nuts. It's not as catchy because there aren't enough dank memes to exploit, but some sites keep pushing it in the hopes that it'll take.

>But if they're not Nazis, then what are they? And what makes them bad?
"A Nazi By Any Other Name".

> How affiliated is it with Red Skull? Does Red Skull still want to kill all mutants?
Current Red Skull clone is one of the main Hydra leaders, who also has a mutant brain. Steve is now the one who wants to send all mutants to the camps.

So, League of Assassins?

I think that was just teaming up with local bigwigs to make inways into China

I suppose moderate is too empty a word and centrist doesn't really have a reputation in the US so new labels were needed to separate the more extreme elements from the core left and right wing somehow.

Yes. Except they aren't otakus.

>I thought alternative right was secular conservatives as opposed to Bible belt conservatives

The term 'alt-right' is just a pejorative, it is the leftist equivalent of calling someone a SJW.

Alt right was coined by people that self identify as it. Or are you really saying Richard Spencer is a lefty?

Strong_Guy_mutant_speech.jpg

Doesn't matter how a term was coined, it's how it's used today. Cuck was brought back as "cuckservative", a liberal insult, but now it's coded as a right-wing thing.

The way it is used now is a pejorative.

It is being used to describe a wide range of groups such as actual white nationalists/neo-nazi's and groups who are just libertarian, traditionalist or nationalist. This allows the leftists using the term to insist that all members of the alt-right are white nationalists and neo-nazi's.

The term was coined by a white nationalist, though. It was originally a white supremacist movement.

>I didn't watch the latest James Bond movie
SPECTRE isn't exactly a new addition to Bond, user.

>Or are you really saying Richard Spencer is a lefty?
Spencer being a CIA plant to discredit the movement is nothing new, user.

>this is what SJWs actually believe
No wonder this palce is called Sup Forumsmblr.

Nope.

Hydra stopped being Nazis when Hickman retconed them into some THOUSANDS YEAR OLD EVIL cult thing

He did the same with Shield, retconing them into THOUSAND YEAR OLD PROTECTOR OF MAN thing.

The thing is, they still are and always have been Nazi fill ins but these days everyone has forgotten what that means.

Nazism isnt just "chaotic evil" destroy the world gas minorities eat babies, its centuries spanning psuedo-scientific semi-mystical ideology based on a rejection of intrinsic human worth. Its the idea that it is not just foolish but actually immoral for any group to cater to those outside itself, and that any society that isnt heavily nationalistic is lieing to itself, and the specific psuedo-science of the racial superiority of a non-existent group thats responsible for all great ancient civilizations (white aryans).

And Nazis dont shout that from the rooftops, they slowly and carefully develop a society specific dogma by playing up any problem a society has that can be associated with outsiders and any solutions to any issue that they can spin as patriotism, doing so slowly and carefully enough that anyone who actually accuses them of meaning the things they say gets laughed down as a hyper-exagerating propogandist, and their movement contains many of those they espouse to hate.

Then when they build up to a critical mass they "cleanse" their own movement and attempt to take hard control.

What Hydra and even Red Skull have been doing is CLASSIC Nazism, in that it doesnt LOOK like Nazism but furthers it ideological goals.

TLDR: Nazis know they wont get any where if they look like Nazis, so they play up the reasonable patriotic group that offers personal meaning and a belonging social angle along racial or national lines.

You know that was from a cut short arc where the writer got fired shortly after and no one ever used it again, right?

Are you trying to imply that I actually read comics? Fuck off.

>Hydra stopped being Nazis when Hickman retconed them into some THOUSANDS YEAR OLD EVIL cult thing
They were never nazis to begin with, and they were ALWAYS a thousand year old evil cult thing. It's just that originally they were an ancient japanese organization and Hickman retconned it into an ancient egyptian organization that then went east.

You sure? Pretty sure they where introduced as a Nazi organisation and went with that for many many years

Hydra never was Nazi.
Hydra use Nazi for their purposes.

They are like Cobra now. Not racist but basically fascist-globalists - they want to take over the word under a strict authoritarian government.

>They are like Cobra
Cartoon Cobra or comic Cobra?

>Cuck was brought back as "cuckservative", a liberal insult

No. Cuck is an insult because simply an abbreviation of cuckold.
Cuckservative is/was an insult from one group of conservatives to another. Cuckservatives being the more mainstream liberal appears.

>says the cuck

You need a gf to be a cuck, normie.

The whole deal now is they're fractured into various factions. Steve's is like fascist pro-American. Skull is like Nazi+. Is Strucker alive???

No, there origin was explicitly that Strucker (a former nazi commander) hid out east after the war, which is when he was introduced to HYDRA and he then co-opted and brought it back west under his control. The "HYDRA = Nazis" thing is a misunderstanding over the fact that their leader was Strucker, a former nazi, but Hydra as an organization always predated naziism.

>They are like Cobra now
>now
You can't seriously be stupid enough to not realise that Cobra was a Hydra pastiche.

You need a life to be a normie, casual.

How does that invalidate my point? Cobra were never Nazis, Hydra were. So if Cobra is based off Hydra, Hydra has still been retconned to be more like Cobra.

Steve dropping "This is not how the world ends" in HYDRA school got me so hard.

>Cobra were never Nazis, Hydra were
Except Hydra WEREN'T nazis.

/thread

>Current Red Skull clone
Is he a clone? I thought he was the original Red Skull pulled into the present day via timey wimey shit. It's been a while though so maybe I'm just remembering wrong

HYDRA was not a Nazi organization, Kirby and Lee created it as a straight-up knockoff of SPECTRE from James Bond.

After Kirby left the series, it was Steranko who got the idea to use Strucker as the mysterious Blofeld-like head of HYDRA, and after that it took on some Nazi-like qualities, but anyone who says "WWII veteran Jack Kirby created HYDRA as a Nazi analogue" is basically blowing smoke.

Allah. They serve Allah now. Something more evil than any Nazi could ever be. At least Nazis are white.

No, he's a clone of the original that was pulled out of cryo-freeze after Red Skull died in Captain America: Reborn.

What makes red skull so special? I mean why keep cloning the guy? His head is all red and everything. That's gross.

It's Marvel, finding a villain who doesn't go soft and spend half his time teaming up with the good guys is really hard. He's one of the few villains almost exempt from Magneto Syndrome.

Is he the only Hardline Evil character Marvel still has? I mean he's bad bad guy.

Hydra was never "always nazis". (I could cite sources if I still had all my made in the 80s comic books) They were fanatics, they were secret societies, they were revolutionists with too much "revolutionary fervor." They just wanted to overthrow everything, like anarchists, but were orderly- too much so to be mohawk wearing splatterpunks.
They were sinister, wound-up, super tense, everything-haters. You know all that stuff you like? Hydra hates it. So they're still the villains.

>fourth reich
The third reich doesn't mean it was actually the third in an actual sequence of three different states, it's just an idea that society is moving in steps of three and three is the pinnacle and Nazis liked to declare themselves the pinnacle of everything.
So by that logic, the fourth reich would be some kind of stone-age society or something that has achieved literally nothing.

No, they did try to connect them to Nazi's. Hydra was messed with a lot. They did not ESTABLISH THEM as Nazi's is the key. Their initial appearance was not Nazis. They did toy with the idea though of it being a neo-nazi type organization, but they dropped these concepts. To say Hydra was NEVER Nazi is not true. At certain points different writers wanted to explore that and set up, but it was pushed aside and not fully pursued.