Isn't Red Skull supposed to be a villain?

Isn't Red Skull supposed to be a villain?

What part of this is the reader supposed to disagree with?

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Hi Sup Forums!

Preferably the part were he gets his followers to bomb people

That's an edit.

Bad guy wants people to do thing
Says thing they like will happen if they do his thing
People like sound of that
People do thing but don't actually get thing
Bad guy be smug til hero punch hard

Fuck you.

Doesn't change the original context though

Isn't that kind of a complete copout?
They could have just as easily made that page Red Skull kicking a puppy, and going "See? He's wrong about all the entirely reasonable things he just said because he's a PUPPY KICKER!"

It also doesn't change the fact that you're trying to stir up shit for your own amusement.

Oh, look, this thread again.
Time to post the same few images and rehash the same basic talking points that were brought up the last trillion times we discussed this.

>it's a "I have no idea how fascists recruit" episode
Protip: You need to have ideology that at least sounds vaguely sensible and appealing before you can start indocrinating people as terrorists.

What he's saying isn't wrong depending on your politics but red skull genuinly doesn't care,his goal is world domination,him lying to gain soldiers and supporters isn't exactly a copout,he's a maniacal mad man dreaming of world domination,Lying for support isn't exactly out of character for him,fuck the guy tried to make the whole world destroy itself for power,him actually caring about his homeland would be bullshit

Facism is now a buzzword that has little to no meaning. Congrats.

Red Skull's endgame is always something bad so I don't see your point, he's a manipulative asshole, no matter how reasonable he sounds he's gonna fuck you over.

Fascists and terrorists are not the same thing.

As for recruiting terrorists, look at Islam. Shit doesn't make the slightest bit of sense, yet there's at least millions of Islamic terrorists around these days.

But what he said is correct, regardless what he may or may not believe.

>Cletus Reads a Comic: the Thread

No, Islamic terrorists do it too. First they get impressionable young Muslims with "oh well the world hates us so we need to be able to defend ourselves", and then spiral from there into blowing up civilians.
Okay, but we're talking about fascist terrorists like the Red Skull here, who specifically use nationalistic, conservative ideology.

Okay? It's not a cop out, it's just Red Skull being Red Skull

What he's saying isn't wrong, but Red Skull is wrong. He's manipulating people and lying about his true goals.

>Fascists and terrorists are not the same thing.
Are you sure about that?

OP is saying red skull is a good guy for his speech,when it's very clear he is not a good guy,he's a manipulative asshole getting an army,fuck he could be givin out candy but if he's doing it to gain cannon fodder,he's still a fucking bad guy

>oh well the world hates us so we need to be able to defend ourselves

That's not the recruitment. The recruitment is "You'll go to heaven and have everlasting life if you do. God hates these people and you don't want to be an enemy of God."

>Shit doesn't make the slightest bit of sense.
But Christianity does?

You're not supposed to disagree. You just need to realize that there are people who will pretend to have the same concerns as you just so they can use for their purpose and they don't give a fuck about whatever happens to you after they achieve their goals. At least that's what I like to think this page means.

But it's Spencer, so who knows if I'm right or if he's just using the Skull as a strawman. It's not like I really care.

Define fascist then define terrorist then explain to me the overlap.

>First they get impressionable young Muslims with "oh well the world hates us so we need to be able to defend ourselves", and then spiral from there into blowing up civilians.

Well, no, actually, the vast majority of Islamic terrorism is directed towards other Islamists, in countries that are already under Islamic rule.

But it is a complete cop out. I'm talking about his actual points, not ad-hominem attacks against the person making them.

If I said "the earth is round", then convinced a bunch of people to blow themselves up, it wouldn't change anything about the earth being round.

Foo, you don't even need that if you have and audience of rubes who are stupid, self-absorbed and mean enough. Some people just want to do shit by other people for it's own sake.

But Islam does?

the bit where red skull uses vague rhetoric which appeals to emotion rather than present solutions to manipulate desperate and scared people into throwing their lives away for a man who ultimately only cares about obtaining more power for himself

the difference between red skull and hydra cap is red skull would never willingly sacrifice his life for the sake of his vision of utopia. cap would.

>That's not the recruitment.
Yeah it is user, ISIS main recruitment tool is the idea that this is a holy war between Islam and "Rome" aka western civilization and they use islamphobia to illustrate that.

It's not attacking the argument itself, it's pretty much saying "people will pretend to care about what you care about to get something out of you", so no, it's not a cop out

Are there hundreds of terrorist Christian groups, amounting to a few million terrorists, on every continent on the planet waging holy war against every other religion on the planet, including their own, to establish a Christian Caliphate?

Hello friend. are you enjoying my wrongthink?

yeah there is actually

I think it is a bit manipulative on the writer's part. The entire point is supposed to be that Red Skull is a treacherous monster who uses rhetoric he doesn't believe (regardless of the validity of what he's actually saying) to rope people into his schemes for world domination which have no connection to the lies he initially told to get them to help.

Which is fine, but I can only help but wonder if the way it's presented is a shitty illogical way to try and invalidate the points he makes by proxy. e.g.:
>Red Skull talks about political thing
>Red Skull recruits people based on whatever political issue he's raving about this time
>Red Skull uses the people he recruits for straight up evil shit with no bearing on the reason they initially joined him
>but it's presented in such as way that we're supposed to think this invalidates the (unrelated) political point Red Skull was making at the beginning

>ISIS main recruitment tool
What about the other couple hundred Islamic terrorist groups that currently exist, and have existed far longer than the ISIS meme?

>Facism is a extrme right wing authoritarian
>Terrorism is using threats of terror for political leverage
>Fascists often use terrorism
>Islamic terrorists are extreme right wing authoritarians.

You still don't get it,Red skull could be speaking about the values of liberalism and evils of trump or any topic,his intention and goals are what make him the bad guy,what he says to manipulate people is besides the point,asking "why people consider red skull a villian" after he manipulates a bunch of people to ki themselves is a dumb statement

obligatory

Name them.

But he isn't be reasonable. He is painting a bunch of people who just don't want to live in a wartorn shithole anymore, where if they stay they are likely to get murdered by rampaging fanatics, as an invading army by associating them with the very rampaging fanatics they are fleeing from.

It claims that granting asylum to the weak is someone itself a weakness, and places such nebulous ghosts as 'heritage' and 'culture' as not just being under thread, but more important than hundreds of thousands of human lives.

It claims that America is under attack and falling apart, when America is still the world's leading superpower.

It creates a sense of fear out of smoke and mirrors, playing on hatred and promising protection (from an imaginary threat) and revenge (against an 'enemy' that likely doesn't even know you exist) to create a group hanging on your every word and willing to do whatever you say.

This is basic fearmongering tactics. This is how fascist movements and cult leaders rise to power. Always has been, always will be.

Don't feel too ashamed if you fell for it. Human history is full of people like you. Its really easy to get gaslight by fear, thats why people who want power over you keep doing it.

He's not going to stop at more restrictive immigration policies, he's not going to stop at building a border wall, he's not even going to stop at more extreme measures like mass deportations of refugees, he's going to take a seemingly agreeable position and push all the way to the extreme for his own ends just like Hitler before him.

And yet, all I have to do is point to Britain and France to justify denying refugees entry

They used the exact same ration.
>look at these american devils who role in our holy lands bombing our children and burning our homes
>they're basically crusaders
>jihad on them

First off, the whole "blow yourself up to get into heaven" is the Islam bullshit meme equivalent of Christian angels sitting on clouds playing harps. It's just frilly fluff that gets more circulation in the west than actual Islamic communities, possibly because it makes it so easy to dismiss their creed as dangerous fantasy, but that's neither here nor there.

Second, no, that is not their recruitment technique. They rely on people going "Holy shit our lives suck", and they latch onto that mentality by saying "well if you kill these people, your lives will suck a bit less and you'll have control of your life again." It's all about the power play. West=oppressive force, Fanatic Islam=your only salvation. The fact that Trump and Co are playing directly into their narrative must have them giddy like schoolgirls.

The christian right. They believe Aemrica is a Christian nation and they have firebomb planned parenthood and killed doctors.

Pretty standard villain manipulation. Take a popular position that people can reasonably agree with, and then use it to justify more extreme, evil deeds.

Or Germany.
Or Sweden.
Or pretty much anywhere that accepted Islamic immigrants who claimed to be fleeing from Islamists, while still parroting Islamic values and demanding Islamic law.

>all I have to do is point to Britain and France
lol wat

I love that you people live in an alternate reality where Britain and France are burning when the US handily beats them in crime and violent crime per-capita.

You're the same kind of moron who believes there's a rape epidemic in Sweden.

Seeing how Islam and Christianity is basically the same religion I would have to say yes.

But they don't commit jihad "on us".
The vast majority of the time it's on themselves.

its not a copout when its the exact techniques used by cooked politicians across the entire spectrum for hundreds of years.

That's because of ancient tribal disputes, not cause of Islam.

>reasonable things
see His speech is complete bullshit

>demanding Islamic law.
What is Islamic law user? And how is it different from Christian laws that apparently say that Homosexuals and abortion doctos should be killed?

It's not a big problem yet because islamists are still a small portion of the population. If the percentage goes from 5-10% to 20-30% it will be the disaster people talk about now.

They get enforced.

>we're spreading bullshit because if things get worse the bullshit might end up true
Fuck off, that's called lying.

There are approximately 4-5 million refugees in total. The population of France is 66 million. Even if every single refugee went to France and lived in the shitty tent cities they set up for them that would still barely be 6 percent of the population.

Reality doesn't agree with your baseless statements.

>The Mirror
>literally talbloid tier

And has already caused massive problems in every country that has chosen to inflict themselves with that many Islamists.

ibtimes.co.uk/children-islamic-state-last-letters-mosul-schoolboys-who-became-isis-martyrs-1609013

Now what?

>now what?
Now I point out how one letter doesn't trump actual government intelligence that tells us that islamic terrorism isn't motivated by the idea of eternal reward but instead from national politics.

>Well, no, actually, the vast majority of Islamic terrorism is directed towards other Islamists, in countries that are already under Islamic rule.
Oh, sorry, I assumed we were talking about the sort of Islamic terrorism that Sup Forums actually cares about.

But no, you even just admitted that it hasn't when faced with the smallest shred of evidence.

Taking in refugees certainly isn't a beneficial act for the countries doing and and no one will claim as such. It's a humanitarian action. To turn around and pretend that refugees are forming police-sanctioned rape gangs and destroying western civilization with sharia when most are round up and stuck in shitty burning refugee camps is unconscionable.

You're either an idiot or a monster, but never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

Army of God
Anti-balara
Tripura
Nationalist Socialist Council of Nagaland
the Maronite Militia
the Lord's Resistance Army
Lambs of Christ
the 'Concerned Christians' of Israel
The Covenant
The Sword
The Arm of the Lord
Defensive Action
the Montana Freemen
to rattle off a few

wait, are you really arguing that islamic terrorism isn't about them getting perpetually bombed into paste by both foreigners and countrymen?

are you retarded?

because their leaders are just using their anger to try and secure power for themselves

They're not supposed to disagree with this particular part. This part is showing how he's able to actually recruit normal people.

There is no part in the comic that says what he's saying on the first page is wrong.

Maybe the USA should have stayed the fuck out of the middle east

>It's a humanitarian action.
No, it's really not.

Compare refugees fleeing Communist Russia to Islamists fleeing Islamists.

Refugees from Communist areas were not Communists, who believed in Communism, and preached about how great Communism is.

Unlike Islamists fleeing Islamists, yet still practicing Islam and wanting their host country to be as much of an ass-backwards hellhole as the Islamic shithole they claimed to be "fleeing" from, only to commit massive amounts of sexual assault, particularly against native children of their host country.

There isn't anything "humanitarian" about it. It's senselessly endangering the actual citizens of a country in favor of people who literally hate them.

Trump?

You actually saved this shitty reply?
>The heritage and culture of America is that of a melting pot welcoming the poor and disenfranchised of the world, nothing disrespects our heritage more than closing our borders
Why is the thought of "Closing our borders to ILLEGAL immigrants" somehow complicated? You know who hates illegal mexicans just as much as stormfront racists? Mexicans who got in LEGALLY and are not leeching off American welfare. Think for a second why that is.
>After saying the government must protect its land and people with as much force as necessary, he then says the government should have no authority over publicly-owned land. Which is it Skull?
It bothers me how the Red fucking Skull knows more about the U.S. than the braindead moron who wrote this post. Government protects your land and they CAN take it from you but not without good reason (2nd amendment acts as a failsafe if they try to anyway, because if the government is taking your land just because, your heading towards fascism). They don't have to be mutually exclusive

and what about all the people who CLAIM to be refugees but are, in fact, migrants?

>They're not supposed to disagree with this particular part
kill yourself

also read If you actually find yourself agreeing with Red Skull's speech you're a moron who needs to take a class on anti-propaganda techniques before you wind up drinking poison kool-aid in a nightgown

He is right. He is just using the truth as something to push his own agende, something many sociopaths do.

>No, it's really not.
Yeah it is. They're takng in families with no homes who are fleeing their war-torn country.

Pretty sure Buddhists weren't bombing Muslims to paste, and that didn't stop their native Muslim population from carrying out consistent terrorist attacks and sexual violence against the majority Buddhist population.

Dude that reply you keep linking is super shitty, and just ignores half of the decent arguments by lumping them under "tired rhetoric". It's garbage

all 3 of them?

Illegal immigrants actually pay more taxes in a year than our current president.

I agree.

It was so much better when the Taliban had entire countries under their rule, and banned women from leaving their own homes without a male family escort.

If they had already murdered every male in the family, then that was just tough luck for them.

Of course, it's just going to devolve back to this natural Islamic state as soon as we leave, so I agree. It was a waste of time.

What an interesting but of meaningless trivia

>People are actually defending rapefugees.

Sup Forumsmblr in full force I see.

>Taking in refugees certainly isn't a beneficial act for the countries doing and and no one will claim as such. It's a humanitarian action.
>putting your nation in danger so you can virtue signal

Simple cost/benefit analysis. The "cost" of accepting refugee is high- increased crime, increased terrorism, sectarian violence, strain on the welfare system, balkanization, etc. The "benefit" is... you getting to feel good about yourself for a moment.

Employing logic hardly makes one a "monster", you hyper-emotional child.

Well, historically. Muslims are never good immigrants.

>2nd amendment acts as a failsafe.
HAHAHAHA oh god.

>fleeing their Islam-torn country.
Fixed.

Also, 90% of them are military age men with no family. When the cameras zoom all the way in on one woman holding a child, notice how absolutely every other single person in the background is a grown-ass man.

>leeching off American welfare
Illegal immigrants don't have access to welfare, while they still pay into the system through sales and payroll taxes.

Why aren't they fleeing to Lebanon, Jordan, Turkey, Israel, or any other stable(r) nearby nation? Why are these "desperate" people traveling thousands of miles by land and sea to European nations they are not culturally compatible with?

>Illegal immigrants actually pay more taxes
>illegals paying taxes
>illegals who want to keep their undocumented status to evade deportation paying taxes
No.

Just saying, they're not leeches if they pay their fair share.

What if I'm a rapefugee and just want some underage kaffir pussy?

>Also, 90% of them are military age men with no family

> no proof whatsoever

That's not true. Until 9/11 they were considered as good to bring in as East Asians, and that's still true. You just want the cosmopolitan ones who assimilate well

>Christian law says to kill

This version of Sup Forums continues to be the dumbest and worst board. Sage.

Cause closing off your borders doesn't stop illegal immigration, it only increases it.

What about them? Go ahead and make whatever retarded claim you're going to make, I can't disprove a claim you haven't made.

>muh illegals
First of all, preventing illegal immigration is logistically impossible. Second, the vast majority of illegal immigrants did NOT jump the border, they came in on visas and overstayed. Third, if you're illegal you can't apply for welfare despite the fact that you do pay into the system through payroll taxes.

>government ownership of land
He's literally backing the people who took over a wildlife refuge claiming the government had no right to the land and demanding they give it to them. What the fuck are you even talking about?

What? No argument? You don't know why that's literally the SECOND amendment right after free speech? You don't know why the most oppressive regimes involved a disarmed population?