What are your thoughts and feelings on Supernatural?

What are your thoughts and feelings on Supernatural?

Decent show overall, among the prime shows/greatest examples of its genre simply because of its scope and longevity despite being a cult show.

It's unfairly dismissed or brushed off by many people due to its majority fanbase, and so gets associated to crap like Twilight or The Vampire Diaries, when in fact, the direction and focus of Supernatural is quite the opposite. The show has even mocked Twilight several times, and the backdoor pilot originally planned for a spin-off on monster families (very reminiscent of The Vampire Diaries) BOMBED so hard and was hated by most of its viewers. I'm not denying majority of viewers are tumblrinas, all I'm saying is that it does not detract to its merits, nor do their delusional shipping affects the canon.

I'd argue it's even better than the more popular The Walking Dead, because Supernatural keeps its creatures front and centre and among the main draws as opposed to The Walking Dead, which only brings in zombies for 20% of the story/airtime after the massive amount of soap drama their characters have. I'm not saying Supernatural doesn't have drama/family shit, but it's mostly relegated to the first 3 minutes of the show, some throw-away lines in between and the last 5 minutes of the show for MOTWs.

I'd highly recommend it to enthusiasts of the genre, with a bit of some modern western thrown in, those who appreciate top-tier brotherhood bonding while on road trips to the tune of classic rock.

Was very good for about 5 seasons, now it just won't die

I like me some hilly billy dbz from time to time.

Gay

Never have I seen a show where the writers have completely lost control of the story and are pulling shit out of their asses as much as Supernatural, and I've seen the Walking Dead.

It seemed to drive to a logical conclusion with all of the Lucifer stuff and then it just kept on going, getting more and more ridiculous every fucking season.
>leviathans
I think fans of the show (that aren't teenage girls) just keep watching it at this point because they've already invested so much time into it.

Supernatural at least sticks to its monsters whereas The Walking Dead just uses zombies as background noise. gtfo

>Supernatural at least sticks to its monsters whereas The Walking Dead just uses zombies as background noise
Sure, I guess? I don't see how that makes the show worth watching, though. It doesn't refute my point, anyway.

What's the new season about? The last one was about a bunch of limey wizards being dicks right?

Wizard girls and secret societies

well for one, let's see why you think it's getting
>more ridiculous every fucking season

What do you know about the latter seasons? Have you actually followed the plot to be able to criticize them properly? Or are we going by preconceived notions here?

Look, I'm not denying that the power levels are getting bigger, but tell me, which fantasy-based show hasn't? And what exactly is your issue with Leviathans? They're a step away from Angels and Demons, which at that point were getting tiresome. Not to mention it expanded their lore coverage. I also liked the elements of Thomas Hobbes' The Leviathan being reflected in the leviathans in the show.

And I thought I'd point out that I hated and dropped this show around Season 9. I only checked the main arcs every now and then and after actually watching the latter seasons (10 onwards), I realized a lot of my complaints were my own misconceptions (except for season 9, fuck that season).

should have ended at season 5

archangels and hybrids, interdimensional beings and a lovecraftian entity

>God left reality cuddling his sister
>Alternate timeline where Michael won, was much stronger in the "main" one, and is now gearing up for full Crises on Two Earths shit
>Lucifer has been so emasculated that this is the second time he's been rendered basically powerless, and had to beg for help
>Castiel came back from the dead because there's ANOTHER entity older than God, but he's such a pussy Castiel bullied him by refusing to let him go to sleep
>Angels are going extinct
>Sam and Dean are somehow still working cases while all this is happening

At this point I'm just watching because it's fascinatingly bad.

It's The Room of shows.

Even all this is better than Metatron

Really? I mean, he was just some guy who got handed the cheat codes to reality. I can understand it that his whole plan hinged on the boys (and Cas) doing a bunch of pointless fetch quests that cheapened the mythos by making every monster dude-shaped, but the actual concept of him being a salty burnout who needs to scheme his way into almighty power is more coherent to me than this Dragonball Super meme shit where it's powerlevels all the way down. Fuck's sake, if Lucifer's kid can destroy the universe then that implies he's at least as powerful as Amara, and more powerful than GOD.

Honestly Metatron was the saving grace of S11 for me; the scenes with him editing for Chuck were the only true kino moments in the entire damn season. But then again he wasn't even a villain by that point.

This. I keep watching though because I need to finish shit.

Are the later seasons really that bad? Just started watching this and I'm at season 2 rn, really enjoying it a lot. Sad to hear that it turns to shit later on.

They are. They really are, you can tell they were starting to run out of ideas in Season 6 when they throw in a meta episode, but it's not until Cas tries to become the new God that it really becomes apparent the writers have lost it.

After season 7 nothing makes any goddamn sense. Leviathans are introduced to make angels look bad, and then are kicked around by ghosts and maced with borax. Demons disappear for a while, then the strong ones show up and start bullying angels. Angels themselves are just...completely shit on every season after, becoming weaker for no reason at first and making stupid decisions that result in them currently being on the verge of extinction like I said.

Oh, and 4 witches mumbling can deal a significant blow to the being said to be stronger than God Almighty. Keep in mind that for all it's faults Supernatural isn't a STRONK WOMYN show: They die immediately afterwards, but there are many OTHER witches out there and some of them, like the Wicked Witch of the West, are implied to be stronger. Let that sink in.

...

...oh yeah, fucking The Wizard of Oz turns out to be based on real events in the series.

Basically seasons 1-5 can be seen as a contained story, where all the loose ends are neatly tied up in a satisfying ending. After season 5 the show lacks that same structure, limping from season to season trying to come up with some new cool baddie they can fight. Also they're running out of ideas for interesting filler episodes, I don't know how many times they've done ''he's a monster but dindunuffin'' thing.

Metatron being a scheming Big Bad was done better by Crowley

Metatron being a lowly angel being boosted to God status was done better by Castiel

Metatron is a meme and an apt analogy of Carver ruining Kripke's (God) established lore

10-13 are actually good. Trust me on this. I've actually watched the show and even dropped it at one point because of how shit it was. Objectively, it did dip so bad in quality but the newer ones are return to form.

Season 11's "Baby" is shot entirely within the Impala and is easily the best MOTW even including Kripke's

Season 6, 10, 11 and 12 all had great MOTWs and different creatures. This user sounds like someone who didn't bother actually checking the show and just spews the same shit like everybody who stopped at S5 does.

Am I denying the dip in quality? Nope. What I'm saying is that it does get better in quality and I refuse to let that part be buried by anons who just parrot the same shit without checking the show for themselves.

>10-13 are actually good

Are you fucking kidding me? 7-9 were of increasingly bad structuring and contrivance, but 10's where they have to actually shit out of their ass to make the plot (seriously Dean? Killing Death with his own scythe, after everything you've learned about not fucking things up for Sam's sake?), season 11 revolved around GOD'S SISTER and by 12-13 they've turned Lucifer into more of a meme than Metatron ever was.

The Men of Letters sent him back to Hell with science. SCIENCE!

>10, 11 and 12 all had great MOTWs and different creatures

Now that said, I can agree with this at least. The latest seasons have a few really strong momnets. Chuck playing the guitar was great. Today's episode was comfy. The problem is the overall plot direction is going straight into crazytown, and to that a lot of the supers are so wildly out of character so as to be almost unrecognisable.

Not saying it doesn't still have its moments. Just that it's gotten a bit stale and that they often retread old ground. You're a retard.
>Season 11's "Baby" is shot entirely within the Impala and is easily the best MOTW even including Kripke's
Monsters were meh, but it was a great episode. Still prefer the groundhog day one.

I will not argue with you about 8-9 because i really really hated those seasons. 7 I have little issues with because I am a fan of purgatory and the show exploring new concepts. Additionally, it meshes well with 6 as a somewhat cohesive era with Gamble as showrunner.

Carver's era (8-11) is a clusterfuck but I can at least appreciate 10 for trying out new things (overreliance on wifi/technology for Halt & Catch Fire, expanding to different countries--The Things They Carried had Khan Worm cousin with the US troops in the Middle East, the Italian Renaissance ghost in Paint It Black) with their MOTW, the Mark of Cain being an effective metaphor for addiction. 10 also had a different structure without a clear Big Bad, which worked well.

Death's schythe killing himself was already given in 5, and Dean even tried killing Death with it in the pizza shop. So it has precedent. I'm not saying I like it (I don't) but I won't complain about lore already given by Kripke

11 is most cohesive mytharc yet since the Apocalypse and had very enjoyable MOTWs. I will not deny the final fight was a bit flat, but the Nazi episodes with the sub in The Vessel was a great MOTW, something a regular fan wouldn't think is possible given the show's meager budget. I initially disliked Luci coming back but when I actually watched the episode, I found it works because the writing gives more than decent explanation, and the dynamics and acting really sells it to me.

Fair enough. I can see where you're coming from with a lot of those. At the very least, I will say I feel Limbo was the show's biggest success at portraying an actually magical realm.

Really, my only two sticking points are Death and Amara. Speaking of Kripke's lore, I can't get over how when Dean tried it first time around, Death explicitly had a counter-he made it hot until he dropped it, and then called it to his side. And this was Dean coming at him from behind, with no prior warning, and his spiel about how insignificant the world was carried much more clout than the usual rounds of boasting because he backed it up in the God Cas arc. Death was watching Dean on the second round, to add insult to injury.

As for Amara, I just feel that whenever Supernatural delves into escalation it handles it badly. God loses a lot of mystery and grandeur when His superior can be destroyed by "10,000 suns, set to supernova", and the whole concept of eldritch beings is cheapened now we have THE EMPTY too.

Like you said, there were overall better monsters, moments and twists by comparison. My main gripe is that the 10 and onwards eras' main plots focused on things so absurd, they make me think questions like "If Lucifer's so powerful why doesn't he just go back in time before all this bullshit happened?".

Yes, Limbo was well done. I won't try to defend Death dying because like I said I hate it, too.

I am a bit biased about Amara for a number of things: Carver hated having absurd and more ancient Big Bads so much so that he avoided it at all cost. As a result, seasons 8-9 faltered and had no footing. 10 worked as I said earlier but it's more exception than the rule. After three seasons, an actual big big bad was welcome for me. The season also opened well for me because it was cohesive. Teen Amara being a qt helps.

My gripe with 11 is they could have tied all the previous seasons to Amara's doing, but they didn't. And you know the retcons that affect old seasons. I also just remembered this is where they had the banshee, which was again a cool thing for a show with little budget.

About Luci going back in time, it was difficult to do before because the Apocalypse was going to happen no matter what. And Luci himself believed and propagated this (5.04 The End). So your idea doesn't work out. This is further supported by Balthazar later (6.17 My Heart Will Go On). Without the "script" for the Apocalypse, it was easier to change the past. Luci not knowing about the Hand of God in 11 was because Delphine Seydoux warded the sub against all supernatural interference.

As for the Entity in the Empty, I'm no longer fazed by the writers' knack for coming up with ancient beings. It's like they perfected it that I just find it hilarious. We are 13 seasons in, after all. And how can eldritch concepts be cheapened when this is the most faithful adaptation of Supernatural yet?