Gary Stu

Gary Stu

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Wasn't he a highly trained merc? I thought a mary sue/gary stu was someone who was just naturally gifted without any training.

No, I believe his name was John Matrix. Colonel.

mary sue/gary stu has lost all meaning these days, it's basically now "I don't like this character because they can do stuff"

Rey was 100% legit Mary Sue tho.

Like I said, lost all meaning.

What was his best line in this masterpiece?
I have to go with let off some steam bennett

>defeats a trained Jedi and uses mind control without any previous training
Oh yeah, she totally wasn't a Mary Stew.

Yeah but it's still a masculine self-insert power fantasy.
Sure he's a skilled merc, but that doesn't mean he should be able to escape and defeat a whole army on his own without breaking a sweat.

It's completely fine imo, love this movie.
But still, it's a self-insert male power fantasy that's completely unrealistic. I'm just trying to say that I don't find much inherently wrong with the concept of a Mary Sue. Maybe I'm misunderstanding some subtleties of the concept.

Who are some massively mary sue characters that you love anyway? pic related

holy fucking chad

Literally all of them but still love em.

"Don't disturb my friend, he's dead tired."

>massively mary sue character

Really? I've always thought of Richard as excruciatingly unlucky.

>the kid

that's either Rifleman Skillicorn (the Scouser who was hanged) or another gormless yoof whose name I can't recall but who also got killed (in Sharpe's Sword)

This was hilarious and brutal. You can imagine the controlled seething anger in Arnold. Sully's joke is pretty out there and ballsy. Then add Arnold's comeback to it, along with how he breaks his promise in the end... You have a perfect gag.

Sully: Here's twenty dollars to get some beers in Val Verde. It'll give us all a little more time with your daughter.
Henriques: Heh.
Col. John Matrix: You're a funny guy Sully, I like you. That's why I'm going to kill you last.


Col. John Matrix: Sully, remember when I promised I would kill you last?
Sully: [being held by his leg, by the wrist of Matrix, over a cliff] That's right, Matrix, you did!
Cooke: [as he lets Sully go] I lied.

it's not about training or power levels, eu autist/prequelbabby

>What did you put in this?
>Don't ask.
>(continues eating)

WAHT WAS IN THE SAMMICH

>another gormless yoof whose name I can't recall but who also got killed

Rifleman Perkins. He actually dies in "Sharpe's Battle".

>Better pilot than Han Solo
>Has more knowledge about Millennial Falcon than Han too
>Master martial artist, even though her life was constituted of gathering scrap and eating peanuts
>Better jedi than Kylo (a guy who trained from child)
>Can use advanced force techniques without having any prior knowledge of them
>Understands what the ball droid is saying, even though you need an actual fucking communication droid to understand them (one can only assume that she in fact speak over 7 million languages)

Rey was written by a 5 year old who though "what if Rey could do all things those others can do, BUT BETTER"

BASTARD

I fucking loved that line. it's simple but it works so well.

>Right?
>Wrong.

was also pretty good.

find a better scene in the history of kino
youtube.com/watch?v=BcIjFeWE4fE

I considered posting the greenhouse scene from Scum but decided not to bother because of how much *less* gay it is.

No one has ever called John Matrix a well rounded, thoughtfully written character.

>This Green Beret is gonna kick your ass
>I eat Green Berets for breakfast and right now im very hungry

>Whats with the macho bullshit

Commando is perfect, its just self aware enough

>In 2010, it was announced thatFoxwould begin filming a remake of the film withDavid Ayerin negotiations to direct.[10]Sam Worthingtonwas attached to play the new lead role, which would reportedly have a more realistic approach.[11]

barfaroo

>No one has ever called John Matrix a well rounded, thoughtfully written character.

Well, at the same time nobody's really complaining right? If this kind of movie is not your thing you just mind your own business and watch what you do like.

Who would win between John Rambo and John Matrix?

Commando is ironic as fuck. Of course he's a gary stu, thats what makes him hilarious. The main difference is that Star Wars tries to play Rey off as a serious believable character while John Matrix is a hilarious straight face parody.

>The main difference is that Star Wars tries to play Rey off as a serious believable character

You'd have to know her midichlorian count to know how believable her character is user.

>Has barely flown yet she is better at it than Han
>Never knew the Force yet she can defeat a highly trained Sith
Come on buddy you have to try at least

A powerfantasy or unrealistically skilled/superpowered character isn't exactly the same as a mary sue.

Matrix definitely is a powerfantasy, but not really a mary sue in either it's narrow or broader meaning: not a flawless author insert into a pre-established world or a (too) flawless charater with powers not justified by the narrative and who is liked by everyone.

Rey from TFA also isn't the best example of a mary sue, but comes close enough to the broader use to be annoying (not perfect, but too skilled including in area's that aren't established and too well liked by characters that barely know her).

Buffy, by contrast, can be seen as a female power-fantasy that isn't a mary sue: her powers and skills are justified by the narrative and she argues with other characters and makes mistakes, even though she's the here and basically a super hero.

Sure it is a power fantasy, but there's an explanation to his skills. It doesn't really matter if those particular skills are unrealistic, but at least it's explained why he does what he does. If he'd be a Gary Sue, he would not have had the need for the woman to fly the plane, as he would have known how to do that as well.

Mary/Gary Sue's just know how to do things despite they've never done that before, no matter if it's a question of shooting a gun or flying a modern fighter jet.

I've only watched the film once and it was next to some blabbering nerdy type who kept whining "Mary Sue! Mary Sue!".
From what I can remember, isn't Rey a well trained/experienced mechanic who has great knowledge on vehicles? And considering she can ride those junkyward-tier ships across the desert i'm guessing the Falcon is child's play compared.
Also, it was pretty clear that she's supposed to be gifted with some sort of Jedi power that's been inherited from her bloodline (suggesting she could be related to another famous) which is why she's able to comprehend and control those powers rather quickly.

Not really a Mary Sue desu, just the way she's been set up for future sequels.

Look at Superman - on paper he should be the most Mary Sue-ish character ever created going by the logic most of the whiners of the new Stars Wars follow. But he has weaknesses which villains can use to overrule him - not in physical attributes but in emotional blackmail (steal his love, force him to choose option a or b, each having their own fatal consequences etc.).

...

Superman's weaknesses were introduced only after they noticed he was already far too strong.

okay that makes sense.
(thanks for trying to explain your pov sensibly)
i think TLJ will explain a lot about Rey's powers. I agree that she sure seems like a wondrous flower child often, but on the other hand there are multiple instances where she shows flaws. Most obviously when she doesn't want to take Luke's light saber and runs away. The Force obviously guided her fate towards it, so I'm hoping we'll get more insight in her talents in TLJ.
I'm faily certain that she'll be tested thoroughly in TLJ and it'll show her character in a more realistic flawed sense. Her character in TFA was good enough for me though, I just found it amazing to see a completely fresh actress bring so much enthusiasm and good acting to the table. But I don't expect highly complex character nuances and storytelling virtuosity in a star wars movie, although there have been some.

>assblasted Disney intern soyboys attacking Sup Forums's favourite action classics because we told them the truth

Rey is the epitome of Mary Sue. It has been proven numerous times.

A Mary Sue character is a character that can do anything or everything to overcome with little to no problems.

A lot of Arnold's roles are pure satire.
They aren't meant to be taken seriously and are just male power fantasies.
Which aren't the same thing, in most of his movies things go horribly horribly wrong. He just overcomes because he is deus ex machina and being the lead character has to survive.

>attacking Sup Forums's favourite action classics because we told them the truth

im not attacking anything mr. epitome of masculinity, you're taking things way too seriously

I mean the best example I can give is in Predator at the end when he just happens to realize that the mud is keeping him from being seen and that the aliens sight is based on heat. So he lights a bunch of fires.

Not Mary Sue, just luck.
A lot of his roles are like this, he has the capacity to lose. He doesn't because of blind luck usually.
A Mary Sue just wins because they pull a random skill out of their ass.
If Arnold suddenly beat the Predator in hand to hand combat, that would be Mary Sue as fuck.

This has been my favorite movie since I was 4 years old. Matrix is an accomplished black ops soldier in the US Army. He was the commanding officer of his unit, every man of which was a killing machine on legs. His opponents are poorly trained, sadistic, self-serving mercenaries, the private army of a self-styled warlord or tyrant. Bennet was trained by Matrix himself, who probably figured out that he was a bit off. I'd say Bennet did not get the full benefit of Matrix's guidance. Furthermore, since it is Bennet who's training these psycho mercs, he's not likely to train them in everything he knows, and he also seems unlikely to teach them much of the basic soldiering skills they need. I think training under Bennet would be something like "this is how to stab a man, this is how to cut his neck open, this is how to torture someone, now we're done."
Bennet is also likely to be scared of training any of these mercs to anywhere near his level of proficiency, not wanting to be bumped off because someone's trying to take his position.
We can STILL see that members of Bennet's elite squad are:
1. Far superior in combat ability to average soldiers
2. Below even Bennet, not to mention Matrix.

Now, let's hit up some of Matrix's flaws.
Just in the first few minutes we get a couple:
Not taking the unarmed enemy sitting in his house as a prisoner. This is a valuable source of information left rotting.
Getting captured. This stems from the first one. His urge to rescue his daughter immediately leads him to make mistakes and confront his enemies chained to a table instead of on his own terms.
He has a bad combination of LOUD and greedy when he does his shopping trip, he obviously doesn't have an eye for subtlety. Either make a stealth entry and clean it out, or smash and grab and leave. It worked out for him because his accomplice already had a rocket launcher from the haul, and used it to rescue him, but I'm assuming he didn't get anywhere near what he wanted.

You know, I also think a Gary Stu would've just called up General Kirby and said "I need a full 'Commando((r)tm)' kit"

This isn't a plane, it's a canoe with wings!