Does anyone else loathe this trope?

>Humans are the real evil.
>The noble savages are better than us.
>Because they're in touch with nature which protects them.
>Technology and intellectualism bad.

Pic very much related.

>movie wants you to root for the main characters
wew

if you aren't rooting for the humans in both these films you're retarded.

Planet of the Apes (the modern ones, especially the second one) are a million times more nuanced than Avatar, though.

>Caesar
>savage

Its because of le noble savage maymay.

Meanwhile, in reality, savages skin eachother alive and eat ebola monkeys and burn down all of australia's forests

xenophile porn

Is being more nuanced than Avatar a meaningful achievement?

The villain of the second ape movie was a vengeful, power-hungry ape though.

well Avatar 2-5 have two of the writers from first two movies now so we'll probably see a way better take

Yes, but that is clearly not the case with the recent apes films. Maybe Rise overly vilified the humans, but both Dawn and especially War kept them mostly sympathetic. Woody Harrelson's character might seem like a dick but he was actually completely right. He wasn't killing the apes because of some hamfisted "muh superior race." He was literally trying to save his species just like Caesar and his was completely correct about the outcome of the planet should he fail. Apes do end up ruling the world and using humans as slaves. Both sides are just fighting to preserve their species, unlike Avatar where the humans are greedy assholes wiping out the indigenous population to get space rocks.

The villain of Dawn of the Planet of the Apes was one of the apes, though.

>Human is shown as being a slave to the system and unable to change it.
>Has to do the job he hate to afford his apartment and food.
>Noble savages are somehow depicted as highly civilized people who are above all this.
>In reality they'd kill each other to have the hottest girl of the tribe.

Avatar isn't the same since you can literally connect to the grid with other creatures, it's the bio internet, and also humans are bad because they're the invaders, while the planet of apes is just earth

yeah this doesn't describe any aspect of the Apes trilogy

>1,116 days until Avatar 2

While Rise vilified humans too much both Dawn and War made the humans so incompetent that it made the Avatar and Alien covenant team look like geniuses in comparison.

>both Dawn and War made the humans so incompetent that it made the Avatar and Alien covenant team look like geniuses in comparison.
You are talking absolute horseshit

the humans in avatar aren't representing intellectualism my dude, they're representing uncalled for rape of natural resources that don't even belong to them

Touché

In Avatar we even often tried to give them education and roads

But the biggest annoying trope that comes along with this is how "kind and balanced mother nature" is movies like Avatar.

Whereas in reality Mother nature is a bigger killer than humans and our greatest accomplishment is not being picked around by her like other animals.

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Oh fuck off , any military camp that let's a literal retarded child run around their camp helping the prisoners isn't smart.

Even the Alien covenant crew weren't stupid enough let carriers of a disease that nearly destroyed humanity gathered together in open fucking cages.

...

My man nature isn't an abstract force that keeps balance and fairness. Nature IS one tribe taking from another for survival and power. Lions don't try to be fair picking off the weak and sick and young, they do it because it's easy. So boo hoo, spacecats got invaded just like all other life in the universe does to itself.

failing to understand this is why naturefags always lose.

>>My man nature isn't an abstract force that keeps balance and fairness
In Avatar it quite literally is so PPPFTTT.

If Mother Nature was that good then she should protected that dumb tree

humans are the real evil, though. some humans have managed to be good but the rest of us (~99.9999%) are utterly useless and only exist to destroy nature and consume resources and produce even more useless human beings.

The whole point of nu Planet of the Apes is that even when starting completely fresh, given a blank slate, the new humans (apes) immediately express all of the negative aspects of human nature despite their good intentions.

You're lineally a brainlet if you interpreted it as APE=GOOD, MAN=BAD.

The whole point is that everyone has the capacity for evil.

Humans are not evil. They are complex.
I know these two movies are just popcorn flicks but for christ sake there is a way to show the protagonist's flaws other than "being too good for his own good".
Native/primitive cultures can have both good and bad sides to them.

>unlike Avatar where the humans are greedy assholes wiping out the indigenous population to get space rocks.
It's not like humans are in a energy crisis and desperately need those rocks in order to save millions of lives. If a couple dozen blue-cat-people have to die, then so be it.

There's literally nothing wrong with that, soyboy.

I never understood the point these movies were trying to push. I mean I understood they wanted us to side with the aliens, but they aren't human.
I can understand siding with one specific alien to fight one specific asshole of a human. But both of these were siding with the aliens in their entirety to fight humanity in it's entirety.
That's just absurd. I mean some stuff in those movies (like unobtaniam and now the monkeys get their superpowers) is also absurd. But there's not enough of it, so it just comes across as them being beyond stupid.
Or did I just not get any of those, and they actually were supposed to just absurdist shit.

>fantasy setting
>humans are the bad guys

t.human

>put your arms depot outside your stronghold
>put two drunks alone to guard it

He's a monkey, a literal animal

fuck off pinkskin

>fantasy setting
>humans are somehow the one with empires and shit even though other races are clarly superior and have magic/better technology

But the Na'vi win, they are superior to the humans.

Humanlets btfo

1>2>3
War was irredeemably bad

Lol no

2 > 3 > 1

The trope is perfectly fine, as long as it's done well. King Kong handled it well.

Im gonna let this here for you.

King Kong was only emphasizing how much of a dick Denham was, not the human race in general.

Apes threw this on its head though, at least in the 2nd one. Koba is the one who starts the war

In the Ape movies, the humans aren't evil.

wrong

Avatar the Aliens literally deserve to die. Humanity is busy exploring the universe venturing out into the unknown and driving progress. The aliens just want to sit in their tree and fuck each other with weird gross hair wieners. Like what is the message? That its perfectly fine to remain as backwards savages running around with spears forever? When humans show up and do everything possible to help you assimilate, including transforming teachers into your species and learning your language you gotta get with the program or you are gonna get left behind.

He was abused by humans.

isn't jake sully 56% human

Based

The noble savage thing is ironically a remnant of white imperial created by Romantic-era bourgeois writers who had never left Europe.

Was it done better in pic related?