I for one welcome our new Hydra overlords

I for one welcome our new Hydra overlords.

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Who is Glasses guy and guy who looks like a DC villain?

Where's SpOck at?

Why does robocop have horns?

Glasses guy is Doctor Faustus.
I assume that the "guy who looks like a DC villain" is the guy above Zemo. That's Daniel Whitehall, the Kraken, he's from Hickman's Secret Warriors and has shown up in Captain Hydra's fanfic flashbacks and was a villain in the Agents of SHIELD TV show. Last I checked he was dead but it looks like it didn't last.

Glasses guy is Doctor Faustus and an old Cap villain.

Who looks like a DC guy? The guy with horns? That's Kraken

So is Steve going to like

kill himself

If this brainwash/"past rewrite" gets undone?

I mean, characters like Wolverine and Reed Richards and Tony Stark do heinous shit that they're technically not responsible for and don't bat an eyelash, but they're assholes who generally don't give a shit about the consequences of their actions

It seems to me like this would be the kind of thing that would throw Steve Rogers into the kinda deep despair that made Spider-Man forge a deal with the devil.

I dunno, that seems like the only interesting thing that might come out of this. But maybe that's a little too Astro City for 2017 Marvel "Continuity Shmontinuity" Comics

Otto doesn't get to be part of the Inner Circle. Steve knows he's just an opportunist that isn't really loyal to Hydra's cause. He'll let him take down Spider-Man and Parker Industries but won't let him gain too much power.
A better question is where are Hive and Arnim Zola at.

miles is gonna kill him

Where's Hive?

Who is the guy above Madame Hydra in the kimono?

Why is Colonel Sanders there
Why do they give Cap that shitty retro shield, pretty much limits it to being used as.....well, a shield, rather than a cool offensive weapon that can be thrown and bounce off shit

Gorgon

He can stab people with the point

I wonder who the Kraken is here?

Technically it was Jake Fury the whole time

Zemo will save him with the power of love

The Gorgon, Grandmaster of the Hand.
He's a formidable fighter with super-speed and a god-killer sword. He also has the hax mutant power to turn people into stone by looking at them.

Madame Hydra is my evilfu

So basically Hickman's Hydra line-up but Cap and Fautus added minus Stryker then stupid sexy Zemo replacing stupid sexy Viper. Got it.

Someone's got to feed all of those hungry Hydra boys, and the colonel has enough clout and the secret of those 7 herbs and spices that Cap had to give him a seat at the skulltopus table.

Which one?

>Stryker
You mean Strucker?

Dammit I have X-Men on the mind. Yes. Strucker.

It can split in half and the bottom part is like a really big dagger

Gorgon, HYDRA samurai dude

>rather than a cool offensive weapon
It can split in half for duel wielding, is edged for cutting things, the front half can be launched out of the back half like a projectile/disk launcher, and the tip has a laser edge for lightsaber action.

It's pretty offensive.

Steve has no problem jumping to his death and the only time we seen him commit suicide is when he was in a Mind bubble induced dream (and the only way to get out of one was to kill yourself) and he just fucking jumps off a building like nothing even if it fell really real to him.

Hydra Cap had no qualms about dying, he I could see committing suicide to avoid capture and he would gladly die without any second thoughts if it furthers Hydra's goal.

Regular Cap though? I can't see him willingly dying unless he knows he's in a dream or if it's the only way to save another person's life. When Bucky recuperated his memories after the whole Winter Soldier thing people thought he had killed himself when he disappeared with the cube but Steve mentions that Bucky wasn't the kind of person who just gives up no matter how fucked up things are and I like to think Steve who is now in a similar situation.

Not to mention Steve would probably think dying would be too good for him and that he deserves worse for what he did.

He would definitely go into a deep despair and probably either turn himself in and let Justice handle him (and knowing Hill or any opportunistic Government hire up they wouldn't let him rot in a cell and just use him like they do other villains with the Government Tbolts)

Or he will exile himself into the middle of nowhere away from civilization and lose himself from everyone, that's what Ultimate Cap did after Spider-Man died.

Miles is just going to find him impaled, no way will Bendis let them taint Miles as a murderer.

That's what I'm looking forward to the most, how will Helmut handle the fall of what he and Steve build and Kobik restoring Steve's memory.

Will he think Kobik fucked with who he considers to be the real Steve? Also how strange will their relationship be now that there's love in it? I mean Steve will still remember what Hydra Cap does.

you mean cucker?

cuz gorgon plowed his 900 year old sugar momma

You could tell that Mark Millar really hated Strucker with how pathetic he portrayed him as.

>That's what I'm looking forward to the most, how will Helmut handle the fall of what he and Steve build and Kobik restoring Steve's memory.

The part that I find interesting about this entire thing is that Zemo seems less fixated on or loyal to Hydra (beyond a general sense of purpose/belonging he has been missing) and way more fixated on and loyal to Steve.

People speculated about him turning on Steve but in light of the line-up of that Hydra council and the vision of Steve dying is making me wonder if instead Helmut may end up turning on Hydra for letting Steve die to advance their cause.

anyone see the spoilers? it's been retconned that the nazis won ww 2 until the allies used a cosmic cube to undo that, and then hydra killed the allies. steve is a sleeper agent trying to undo the undo

Nope, where were they posted?

bleedingcool.com/2017/03/21/as-secret-empire-0-full-previews-get-sent-to-retailers-one-big-marvel-universe-spoiler/

As it is revealed that the Marvel Universe naturally has Hydra at its head. That it was only the Allies using the Cosmic Cube that saw them change reality so that the Allies won and not Hitler.

It’s a rather wonderful take on the classic “what if” trope, “What if Hitler won the war?”. Secret Empire has it that he did win. And Hydra ran his coattails. That the Marvel Universe is just “what if Hitler didn’t win the war”?

And so the Captain America of then is hidden in a spiritual fashion, sleeping, ready to emerge when Kobik woill one day remake Captain America and make what happens in the past possible, and then restoring him with all his memories of both versions of himself, but now, and forever, the Hydra version of Captain America. The snake eats its own tail. Cause and effect and reversed. And a perfect loop is drawn.

What happens now is yours to discover. But damn, I thought that was good.

I would have spoilered this but it's so fucking stupid everyone needs to see it

Actually knowing rich johson has bad reading skills...

The allies used the cube to try to win and did. But they would had anyways without it. So marvel undoes it, and sift reboots the marvel universe for generations.

That pretty cheerfully undermines the entire 'Hydra are totally not nazis' stick.

So he's basically saying "Hitler did literary nothing wrong, it was all the cosmic cube". Spencer is going to get soooooo much shit in twitter for that. As if the Nazi sympathizer accusations weren't bad enough now.

Just because Steve genuinely believes that the Hydra world is the "real world" doesn't mean that's actually true.

*literally, damn my eyes

At first the way he was being secretive around Selvig I thought he was preparing to turn on Steve but then if that was the case Helmut wouldn't have been so obvious about it (he just wants to surprise him with an army of villains to help their cause).

Also the speech he gives to Bob about love and how said love was driving him it kind of sealed the deal that he does believe in Steve and cares about him.

But yeah Helmut is going to be furious and hurt when Steve kicks it.

What's the big deal?

Korbik made Cap think that the Allies used the Cosmic cube to alter reality, and that he's the only one with memories of what actually happened. So now he wants to get Korbik to set things 'straight'.

What's wrong with that?

Technically it's Kobik going "Hitler did nothing wrong". Although yeah, Spencer is gonna get shit for this.

No rich thinks htler verse is the real verse.

I bet neither are. And marvel soft reboots.

>"Hitler did literary nothing wrong, it was all the cosmic cube".
You're jumping to conclusions. You didn't actually read the book.
I'm pretty sure that Hitler winning and Hydra taking over the world will NOT be portrayed as being a good thing. Hydra is still fascist and pretty evil.

no she altered reality so hydra did win then lost due to the cube, and made steve a sleeper agent. she didn't just change steve's memories, zemo "remembers too"

Nope.

yep.

Yeah that is going to piss off a lot of people.

No you retard.

Zemo do not remember, he is just so miserable that he tagged along with Steve.

zemo shares the memories with cap. she didn't just change cap.

any good stories with Hydra presented as a serious threat?

He doesn't. Spencer confirmed that he is choosing to believe Steve because he is a such a low-point but that Zemo's own memories haven't changed.

That sounds like you're both jumping to conclusions. There's nothing to suggest that from what's been made public.

Also, there's nothing to say that Zemo isn't just going along with Cap for some other ulterior motive.

Spencer has said before that he writes Zemo as a guy who hit rock bottom. Working with Cap is his way of getting back on top,

Hickman's Secret Warriors is the first to spring to mind.

We got 5 different takes on what rich is saying. Rich is saying the reality hitler won is the true one.

I just think he cant read, he always had reading errors.

Wjat really happemed was the allies used the cube to win the war faster. But they didnt need it.

Now they got to undo it, giving marvel a soft reboot for generations.

Ryan Higgins, the "Marvel hating retailer" said Secret Empire #1 is decent.

Had a much better idea for an "evil cap" story than this low level brainwashing bullshit.

Care to share it with the class?

Didn't we recent find out that Steve has the memories from Kobiks time shenanigans and his regular memories? Steve should suffer from a hard case of Schizophrenia

Not really. No voices, one mind.

>tfw actually really enjoying the Superior Cap storyline
>tfw seeing tumblr lose its collective shit makes it even better
Haven't been reading much Marvel in the last couple of years, but god this is endlessly entertaining. Both the comic and the reactions from the "fandom".

This is stupid

This is really fucking stupid

This is an whole new level of stupid

Bravo Marvel

Too bad enjoy it.

Oh please Secret Warriors started this whole "Hydra has infiltrated everything" crap that we have seen over the past couple of years
You don't need to hear voices to have Schizophrenia, but seeing how he has memories from two different realities that should make it very hard for him to tell what's real and what's not.

Schizophrenia is characterized failure to understand what is real

So, Kobik rewrites reality so that Hydra + Nazi Germany actually wins the war but then the Allies in Kobikverse used a cosmic cube to change reality to so that they won the war and the Marvel universe went on as usual, and jfc this is confusing.

Nope.

Hitler wasnt to be defeated with the cube.

Meh.

Steve starts using more and more shield tech, realizes he can be a better hero/soldier if he trains his mind.

Taps into the full potential of human intelligence rivaling Reed and Stark, eventually building technological additions to his suit that are beyond any Stark armour, the whole time his views on super heroes and villains becoming more twisted (or clearer).

Starts killing off villains while maintaining his public persona, Illuminati reform and find out it's him but not before he kills a hero (Someone like Black Widow or War Machine).

Basic bust ups with him using tactics, tech and over-skill to beat down other heroes one on one and your average multi page spread featuring him taking on a bunch of people at once.

Gets badly wounded but kills another hero still, begs Charles (I know he's dead, could even be Red Skull if you want a twist in there) to wipe his mind back to how he was when he first came out of the ice.

Did you get to read the SE#0? So Nazi Germany would have lost anyway but the Allies used the cube just to be sure?

Oh and he stops wearing the suit for a while, just dressing low-key with his armor underneath.

That's not better at all. You fucking lied, you hack.

Yes.

It's omd for the marvel universe.

Well you read it until the end and thats more people than those that will finish secret empire.

Oh god this is confusing.

What? That's not true at all. Even if it sells like shit SE will still sell thousands of copies by the time its ending. Your shitty pitch will be read by like 30 people before being lost in oblivion since you're never going to become a real comic book writer.

Not really. It does explain generations and rich saying post s e, a classic looking marvel.

>you're never going to become a real comic book writer
That's right, i'm going to be a fake comic book writer.

Retard.

No he doesn't even Steve acknowledges that Helmut doesn't remember anything that Steve does, he even tells him "I don't know what they did to you!"

Helmut is just with Steve because he's in a funk and Steve is giving him the best outcome to his current pathetically miserable predicament.

Also Steve is his enemy husbando whom he has always been tsundere for because of complicated shit involving daddy issues, Steve leading to Heinrich's death, Steve not noticing him, Steve giving Bucky a second chance to redeem himself and not him (which is a big fat lie since Steve has given Helmut many chances), Steve letting Bucky become Cap, Steve ruining his plans and not being the person he wants.

Of course now that Steve is everything that he wants and Steve is willing to help him out and they can both do villain shit he's happy.

But he doesn't remember what Steve tells that their life was like, he wants to believe in it though especially since Steve tells him that Heinrich was a loving father towards him and that just fixes a lot of Helmut's daddy issues.

>Marvel continuity naturally has the Nazis win WWII
Makes sense, given how much of a shithole the place is.

He still thinks he's Captain Hydra and the Captain Hydra memories is what he feels is real to him.

He has memories of the regular Cap but he disassociates from them and feels like they are foreign to him, if anything he thinks regular Cap was cosmic cube fuckery.

Marvel is dc's old earth x.

So to summarize:
1. Kobik rewrites reality so that Steve has always been a member of Hydra.
2. To keep the loop/time-line stable she has the Allies use a cosmic cube to win WW2 even though they would have won without it.
3. So technically the current "real" Marvel universe was rewritten into being a fake one
4. To unfuck the entire thing you'd basically need someone who knows the two key points of a) Steve being a Hydra agent and b) the Allies using the cosmic cube

Which would have to be someone with full knowledge of Hydra Cap's past.

Not him but I think it's stupid too and I'm enjoying it immensely especially since the plot is interesting and I want to see how this ends.

It's also way better than Civil War II at least, that shit was just pain and a waste of time.

>Which would have to be someone with full knowledge of Hydra Cap's past.
Like say, Kobik herself?

Bucky is going to WW2 in Thunderbolts, prolly the Kobik version.

lmao so salty
keep thinking your fan fiction is better than Marlel's comics though, you're hilarious

And let's not forget that Pymtron is somehow involved in all this.

Why is there a Viking Robocop?

Sounds like Schizophrenia

Yes. But techinally neither are the real one.

The real one is the one with no cosmic cube altering. Meaning we haven't been in the real marvel universe so far.

Kobik, Bucky or possibly Zemo depending on what else Steve is gonna tell him.

>Which would have to be someone with full knowledge of Hydra Cap's past.

Only person that comes to mind is Sinclair/Madame Hydra but she would never do that.

The other person who can do this, and I think it's going to be the person who makes Kobik change Steve back to normal, is Spencer's new Quasar Avril Kincaid.

She's going to be the person who solves this whole thing especially since she has a pretty powerful Cosmic Awareness and those with Cosmic Awareness can sense when someone fucks with the universe.

Reed and his family are slacking

lol nobody is salty, you just need to stop sucking dick.

As does Marvel since most people could come up with something better than what Marvel is putting out right now.

>Marlel
That's accurate.

Don't you question reality with schizophrenia though? HydraCap thinks his reality is the real one and feels the other Cap is the fake one, he's not questioning anything and he doesn't feel like there's two of him nor does he feel withdrawn from reality.

Honestly at the of the day it's just weird comic book shit so I don't think a real medical case should be applied to it.

...

The part that I am unsure about is whether Kobik is gonna make it out of the Tbolts book alive. Or Bucky for that matter.

This is fucking worse.

In what way exactly? I don't think it's bad.