How the fuck are there airbenders?

I finally watched all of Korra after all these years trying to avoid it after seeing the trainwreck of the first season. And out of all the weird decisions, the romantic subplots, the retconning, the poor writing, out of all of that, the one thing I can't fathom any way logically no matter how much mental gymnastics I try is the new Air Nation.

>Beginnings retconned all bending to be sourced from those who obtained power of the elements from the lionturtles and their genetic descendants

>Harmonic Convergence happens and suddenly a lot of people are given the power of a particular Lionturtle for absolutely no reason

How is this never explained? Harmonic convergence is about the aligning of the planets and the spiritual dual between light and dark. How does that have anything to do with the Earthbound animals distribution of airbending?

Why didn't previous harmonic convergences grant the power of the elements to people?

Why only airbenders? How and why was the distribution of these made the way they were?

The Lionturtles and their powers had nothing to do with the spirit world, harmonic convergence, or any sort of "balance"

They were just giant "ancient ones" who protected humanity and granted powers when they needed it. Why then would harmonic convergence suddenly summon more of their defunct powers of a dead lionturtle that he didn't want to give more of anyway into already born and aged humans with no trace at all of his original magic that was the source!?

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A wizard did it.

Some creators take "It's magic, ain't gotta explain shit" approach very enthusiastically.

a wizard did it!

The lion turtle thing was the most convoluted origin excuse to ever taint a shows plot. The one thing Korea shit on that actually makes sense to retcon

Shame, I loved the cities on the turtles.

You have witnessed the machinations of a self- correcting universe.

>Universe craves BALANCE
>Avatar is the embodiment of that balance
>Universe sees no Airbenders
>Universe must maintain balance
>Universe creates Airbenders
>Balance: Restored

The same thing would have happened if the Waterbenders had died instead.

>no_sense_of_right_or_wrong.png

But there were no airbenders in the universe to begin with, so why would the universe want them and them specifically?

There are no energybenders besides the avatar and I'm guessing the people who lived on the energybender lionturtle forgot to ask for that power when leaving.

Why didn't harmonic convergence create a fuckton of energybenders too?

Or why was there not a surge of water benders? Half of their fucking race was purged during the 100 year war as EVERY LAST WATERBENDER OTHER THAN KATARA AND HAMA WERE PURGED.

There was be a disproportionate number of waterbenders compared to earth and fire, and yet all the new airbenders were from the Earth Kingdom for no reason.

Also the avatar isn't the embodiment of balance, its the spirit of light that houses 3 elements at a time that constantly reincarnates into a human bender over and over. And said human has absolute autonomy to do whatever they want with said powers and Raava doesn't do shit unless its harmonic convergence and she needs to reminds you to do fuck up Vaatu again.

Look, man, I just gave you the best explanation I can come up with. This isn't Fictional Metaphysics 101. Go For a walk and try not to think about it too much.

>Harmonic Convergence happens and suddenly a lot of people are given the power of a particular Lionturtle for absolutely no reason
There was a reason.

They were all Bumi's bastards and had airbending genes.

Don't get me wrong, they were sweet, just a terrible bending origin concept

>Or why was there not a surge of water benders? Half of their fucking race was purged during the 100 year war as EVERY LAST WATERBENDER OTHER THAN KATARA AND HAMA WERE PURGED.

Only the Southern Tribe. North and the Swamp People were doing just fine.

>Half of their fucking race was purged during the 100 year war as EVERY LAST WATERBENDER OTHER THAN KATARA AND HAMA WERE PURGED.
For the record, this only happened to the Southern one, so it should be much less than half in total.

You're looking for coherence and proper world/story building when the authors didn't give it that much thought. Don't try to find something that isn't there man

A Wizard did it

I always thought this was stupid, wasn't the Avatar meant to be the one who brings balance to the universe? It's why the lore is so fucked up, it was so much more interesting when the Avatar's origins were unclear and made it look like they were an expression of the world made to maintain balance rather than "They are possessed by the spirit of order and being good or whatever" which is just such a hack move that I can barely believe it made it to screen. It would have been a more interesting idea if the Avatar was capable of giving non-benders air-bending powers and had to decide who to give it to rather than it happening for basically no reason.

Fuck Beginings for ruining the origins of bending too, I'm still angry at how they threw the idea of bending coming from peoples connection to their environment in the garbage and shat out the idea of "lion turtles did it". It's just so lame and unsatisfying that both origins were far better left as a mystery.

if i become a airbender after that can i get money from the fire nation for killing all of my predecessors

A better explanation would have been following up on the bullshit we learned from Amon's bloodbending.

That some people might have distance recessive airbender genes from the ancient past and the avatar(energybending) or a bloodbender could open that chi pathway, creating the ability to open up non-bendings to become air nomads.

But no, Bryke and Tim went back to the thing most people hated, the lionturtle, for plot and fucked it up 7 times worse than it already was.

Trying to figure out the bullshit in Korra let alone the ducking retconning is impossible. Nothing makes sense.

...

Remember when Won murdered three guys because they were hunting for food for the village?

the fuck are you talking about

...

>first season
>trainwreck

I WILL HUNT YOU DOWN

Amon's removal of bending was just bloodbending to do reverse waterbending healing.

I.e. he was closing the chi paths that connect the individual to their bending. And that Korra, as the avatar, normally would have access to all 4 paths, Amon only closed 3 of them.

This means there are preset paths of chi for certain kinds of bending, which leaves open the potential along with the genetic passing of building to have people have the recessive genes of a certain kind of bending (air) without knowing it that just has to be opened.

Ergo the Avatar using energybending or a bloodbender could help people with Great great^40 grandparents who were air nomads open up their path.

Yeah, that was pretty much what I had in mind with the Avatar giving people airbending thing.

I don't know what harmonic convergence has to do with anything when it comes to bending, Isn't harmonic convergence a spirit-world thing? What does that have to do with who can bend what? It just felt like the writers wanted more airbenders (which ultimately didn't have that much significance to anything) and just handwaved it with "Uh, it was the harmonic convergence".

I mean, the harmonic convergence itself is just such a retarded plot device that I felt waves of secondhand embarrassment just reading the wiki entry. "EVERY 10000 YEARS THE SPIRITS OF GOOD AND EVIL FIGHT EACH OTHER", Christ, did a 14 year old write this for their Avatar fanfic? It's just so amateur from a series that really should know better than having such lazy, cliched, un-nuanced plot elements than having "GOOD VS EVIL".

Not trolling I would honestly love the second season explained and how Korra meditating in the spirit tree thing let her go toe to toe with the dark avatar after becoming a giant spirit and then Jinora saving her by telling her... something

Its bad writing

The new Airbenders could have been distant descendants of the original Airbenders who lost touch with their roots over generations. We already know that at least one of the new Airbenders (Bumi) was related to Airbenders

Harmonic Convergence caused the influx of spiritual energy from the two open spirit portals to wash over the planet.

This could have caused those Airbender's descendants to have their chakras opened up allowing them to airbend for the first time.

And for all we know there were people around the world who were getting the other bending powers but because it wasn't unusual for there to be Earth, Fire or Water benders running around nobody made the connection

Remember how Rava's and Vatu's design was symbolic of ying and yang but somehow they don't balance each other at all?

Also they didn't do their homework and fucked up which one was male and female

needed guns and to show avatar/nature-spirits dying off..

leaving with a nihilistic future as industrialization and science displace superstition, mysticism, and "nature".

>would have at least a TV-14 rating.

>would have nationalist factions splitting apart the earth and fire-kingdoms.

>>rifles, muskets, cannon along with blades/bayonets are seen and used.

>Revolution is in the air, radicals/revolutionaries are seeing the old regime destroyed. Graphically indicate these guys are fucking nuts at times(public executions) but have justified causes beyond "muh wife",

>bits/hints at colonialism themes.
>would have bending being a completely dying art, as in there are increasingly rare to find, bending itself has gotten far weaker.
>Spirits who once kept the natural world in balance are being killed off by special hunters or mobs of townsfolk, and/or/otherwise becoming an extreme danger to people as they get forced off of their traditional territories.

>Show the traditional or "pro-bender" side as being suffocating with gender-roles and traditions, unable to think outside of a narrow framework of conservatism. often attempting to keep the tide of modernization from coming in and sweeping them away at their own peril.
>Show the industrialists as highly ambitious and ruthless towards the world as a whole.
>revolutionaries as delusional idealists


>Avatar somehow has to handle this chaotic scenario, but won't be able to "perfect balance" their way out of it, equilibrium is mostly a myth or something that emerges out of averages over a period of time.

>allows the world to move on... an uncertain future awaits.

They honestly needed to add more of a gap between Korra and Aang. I mean she uses firebending more anyways, having her born as a water bender was largely inconsequential. Not to mention it wasn't like she meditated and got advice from Aang. That was such a disappointment.

>Why didn't previous harmonic convergences grant the power of the elements to people?
This one did not. They just got to keep turtle powers when ghosts got ghosted. only MC got a power boost.
>Why only airbenders? How and why was the distribution of these made the way they were?
Who knows. It was always painted like their way of life was better but in reality they had to hide like everyone else.

tldr show runners stopped loving the show

I find them just to be more stupid from a world-building perspective. The sprits of "order and chaos" that are basically good and evil just feels like it is such an amateur idea, like nobody truly considers themselves to be evil so to have the literal embodiment of evil is just dumb and not very interesting. The whole concept of balance in the show has been handled in far more nuanced and mature ways than having the embodiments of good and evil come out to punch each other in the face.

The spirit world as a whole was ruined in Korra, before it was some mysterious realm of spirits, that got turned into a kiddy fun world filled with Miyazaki's scrapped designs. It really clashed with how it was portrayed before and just felt dumbed down. The crowning moment was that Lucasian Iroh scene where he met baby Korra and took her to a wacky tea party in another moment I barely believe made it to air and just sums up how this series doesn't seem to get what made the original so great in the first place.

Every writer who resorts to magic does that. That's the essence of magic.

>good and evil just feels like it is such an amateur idea
it is. especially in the way it is shown, even in yin yang the other has bit of the opposite in them. The way it is used in western shit is always trite, like calling characters adam and eve

nope.

Yeah, the deaths of the Avatars would've had more weight if Korra actually interacted with them.

They could even just imply she was listening to them by having her space out during travel scenes or something.

Plus someone correct me but order and chaos don't seem to be strong themes in Asiatic culture let alone the avatar world. It was always about balance in Avatar. Life and death. Sun and moon. Air and ground.

Introducing the whole "chaos consumes everything" theme felt very out of place, especially when the literal embodiment of that theme was in the form of ying and yang

>The Avatar state is supposed to be powerful because of all the past lives working together
>Link to the past gets severed
>Avatar state as powerful as ever

Here's the thing, though. As a precursor, I acknowledge I love the fuck out of magic.

Magic, from a narrative standpoint, must always follow its set rules.If you introduce new shit out of nowhere to solve problems, it's bad writing to be inconsistent. However, how magic ACTUALLY WORKS should never be explained to us. We just know it's consistent. People bend the elements, got it. Lightning is strong fire, got it. Metalbending is actually still only bending earth? Got it.

The essence of magic is not "I don't have to explain shit", it's "you shouldn't have a direct answer to all your questions." What makes magic invincible is that you can never be wrong by premise on how it works, only by how you've failed to stick to your own rules writing it.

Now, despite saying this, Amon's bloodbending fails completely on a narrative level. They never explain how the fuck he does it, and while yes, mystery and ambiguity is great for magic, the most essential, plot-enabling detail of how he blocks bending as a waterbender? Yeah, we need to know that. We need to be told that much. Not how Lion Turtles gave us all our powers, because we had sufficient answers from A:tLA that could be inferred, and didn't really detriment the series to not know. Korra breaks its own lore and establishes new shit which doesn't hold up to old shit, and raises more questions as a result. Answers should raise more questions in magic, yes, but not the way Korra does it.

It was so stupid too. Like skipping over Rava acting as the spiritual glue that held the avatars together (worst retcon possible) what exactly happened when they "died". Did their spirits get wiped from the spirit world? Liked wiped from existence because they were killed? Or was the connection just broken? Because nothing would stop a non-spiritually deficient avatar (that was never explain either) from just entering the spirit world and talking to them with or without the connection

Blood bending was stale because blood bending in and of itself brought nothing. There was no actual connection to your bending in your chi. Like no physical point where it existed. There is no valve to close.

It would have been way better if they had Amon chi bending (which they already established could do exactly what Amon was shown to be doing) instead of having blood bending now able to accomplish what chi bending could.

It's just so lame, you'd be hard pressed to write a worse and less "Avatar" plot than the one that fell out of Spirits.

>Like no physical point where it existed.
Bro, I'm the same one you replied to, and there is a perfectly reasonable explanation for bloodbending blocking bending. The problem is as I said, they need to fucking explain it because without it, we have Step A and Step H, with nothing in between.

>chi is a physical thing (chiblocking seals the chi-pathways
>bloodbending controls the body physically
>if there were such a pressure point that, when blocked with bloodbending applied as well, bending could not be returned

The problem is this actually opens an issue with the original lore. If waterbending healing works by massaging the chi pathways to accelerate the body's natural healing, then water healing should also be the natural counter to chiblocking, which is closing the flow of chi. Yet when it's established, it doesn't affect it at all.

>The Avatar state is supposed to be powerful because of all the past lives working together
>first avatar was strong without any past lives

Yeah, that shows how a great idea was ruined. The idea of the Avatar being powerful due to their connection to the past experiences of all previous Avatars is a lot more interesting than it basically being a videogame powerup from a ghost.

>original avatar universe:
>"We learned how to water bend by watching the moon. We draw power from the moon spirit and our life from the ocean spirit. Our world we live in reflects this power. To have control over it we must train our bodies and our minds.
>Korra universe:
>"Hey lion turtle give me the ability to move water. Also hey it's the prohibition era!"

Fuck me

It gave it meaning. It was just a power up. It was working together with the past lives, all their wisdom and power combined and working together to move islands, erupt volcanoes, summon tsunamis, and being tornadoes.

Now it was just "Hey you're a little bit stronger and nothing about it is spiritual."

While we are on the topic of the short age gap, how the fuck did Yakone get plastic surgery IN AANGS TIME. Like not even the roaring 20s era where that shit just started (and didn't look pretty pic related), in the era of Aang that shit happened.

Like the year he got fucked over by Aang, only 35 years after Atla, this motherfucker is getting perfectly made new face by medical professionals somehow when the only previous notion of medicine was chinese ointments and waterbends.

WHAT THE FUCK

Also he got plastic surgery to hide his face.... that he always hid by wearing a mask

Yakone, not Amon you moron.

Amon only had makeup.

Oh oops. Well that actually doesn't make any sense. No reason to change your face (like you said even assuming the technology exists for some odd reason) if you are exiling yourself to the middle of nowhere.

>original avatar universe
>"We learned how to water bend by watching the moon
>yet there are still nonbenders when they could just fucking look up at night and become waterbenders

there will never be a good avatar thread will there you fucks just like to bitch and bitch

>how the fuck did Yakone get plastic surgery IN AANGS TIME
It would have been one of the few instances where Koh the Face Stealer/Mother of Faces would have actually worked in the plot and not Sup Forums's retarded "Amon is Koh!" theory.

did fucks like you even listen to anything they said or are you making headcanon

Well you can blame Korra for that, buddy

None of it is canon so who cares.

nope you can blame the retards mad about there headcanon

Or you can blame the sub-par poorly written sequel series that generates all this buttmad

Wait, if waterbenders live very near the north and south poles, wouldn't they only be able to see the Moon rise just barely over the horizon at best, and not really witness it pulling any tides at the poles as a result?

The whole thing read like it was from Chinese legend, so I really didn't took what was said with face value, I just think that making an episode with it was the stupidest idea they could've had.

You either go full Over The Garden Wall or keep it as a legend, you are not supposed to show exactly what happened, retard.

Or you can blame the retards mad about their headcanon being proved wrong

Yeah, so we agree that you can blame Korra for being a bad show.

nope

good mad

I was mad because it fucked with the actual canon of the original series.

Oh ok
good post

If anything I'd say Korra was the one good thing of the show.

Poorly written and all, I never really disliked Korra except in Season 2

Fuck everyone else though.

It didn't though.

The series is never coming back.
Pretend Korra didn't exist and the canon is still intact.
Problem solved.

I meant Legend of Korra as a bad show, I never disliked Korra myself, but I never really cared for her as much as I did anyone from the first show.

it has canon comics about aang and korra

That's not an opinion, it did change the canon. The spirit world changed, and the concept of the avatar itself changed. Pretty much nothing about the lore in season 2 is consistent with what was set up in ATLA.

It's not really canon anyway.

i thought nuk-nuk was charming for what it was, along with lovable happy merchant man

>nothing about the lore in season 2 is consistent with what was set up in ATLA
you mean those legends and stories

Actually I don't. The lion turtles were dumb though.

>That's not an opinion, it did change the canon.
It didn't.

>The spirit world changed,
No, we just saw much more of it than the little tiny bit we saw in ATLA. There are aspects of the spirit world in TLOK that are similar to what we saw in ATLA

>and the concept of the avatar itself changed.
Not really, the avatar is still ultimately someone who is meant to bring balance to the world, who can control/master all four elements, and who can communicate with past lives(at least, unless that connection is severed)

>Pretty much nothing about the lore in season 2 is consistent with what was set up in ATLA.
Examples?

We've done this dance before user. You already know my arguments, so I'll keep it brief.

>Spirit portals. Spirit world changes from parallel world to an extension of the physical one.
>Avatar changes from a single being (part human, part spirit) into Raava attached to a human.
>Avatar state is a power up from Raava opposed to channelling the power of past lives.
>Connection to past lives doesn't make sense. The Avatar and Raava are two separate entities.

Long ago, people asked for temporary bending power from the Lionturtles that they live on.

Separating humans from the spirit world, and that the Lionturtles disappeared, people obtained bending through genes.

Some people could awaken their bending through other means by learning from natural "original" benders like Dragons or Badgermoles, like Toph. Others were just born with the prowess, like Korra. As long as they have the dominant gene.

Those with recessive bending genes Like Sokka or Bumi, could not bend. But they did have the gene.

Korra touched the spirit universal beam-thing called Harmonic Convergence. It went through Korra's spirit (Raava), copied the four bending styles, and applied balance to the world. Since Air Nation was the only thing that needed to be applied, it was the only thing changed.

That's my head-canon. I want to see Vaatu Avatar cycle since he is now infused with Ravva and has the four elements intwined within each other. Would be cool.

>Spirit portals. Spirit world changes from parallel world to an extension of the physical one.
No, it's still a parallel world, it's just connected via a portal. Not sure where you're getting the idea that the Spirit world was ever turned into just another part of the real world.

>Avatar changes from a single being (part human, part spirit) into Raava attached to a human.
It's still part human, part spirit though? The avatar is the human(with their own unique spirit that represents them as a human) and the spirit is Raava(and now Vaatu too).

>Avatar state is a power up from Raava opposed to channelling the power of past lives.
It's both, really. Raava provides power, the past lives also provide power and provide wisdom and experience.

The only reason Korra was still relatively powerful later on is because Raava was substantially larger than she was when she fused with Wan or when she was ripped from Korra.

>Connection to past lives doesn't make sense. The Avatar and Raava are two separate entities.
That are permanently bonded(unless they die in the avatar state or they come into contact with Vaatu). What abou it doesn't make sense?

Or you know, the fucking RULES AND LORE specifically shown?!

>Lightning bending is the most difficult ability to use and can only be mastered by the highest of firebenders
Suddenly everybody in Republic City can do it easily, Zuko just sucked ass for not being able to learn

>You must train and learn to unlock the chi path to connect with the element as a bender
Apparently you just had to get touched by a lionturtle and you seemlessly bend the elements without training. No martial arts, neutral Jing, Tui/La, spirituality solar power required. Its all Lionturtles magic. Fucking Aang was an idiot for not being able to Earthbend instantly by just moving his arms around.

>The avatar state is explicitly said by Roku to be the power of all the past incarnations of the Avatars used to hone your power and skills together
Now the avatar state is a power boost from the ultimate spirit of good and peace mixed with harmonic convergence portal energy, Because Wan didn't have any predecessors.

>The fucking Fire Lionturtle himself in Atla(check the marks on his head, same one): "In the era before the avatar we bent the energy inside of us."
JK there has always been bending since way before the avatar, and nobody actually ever energybent.

>Original artbook and escape from the spirit world states that the avatar is the Spirit of the world in human form, who does so to learn and live as man to help it directly and learn from it.
Sorry, the avatar is actually the spirit of all the good and peace ever that siphoned from elemental powers she didn't even have before from 4 lionturtles and just runs through the cycle of reincarnating into humans even though her original job to defeat vaatu is done and she gains absolutely nothing from giving her powers and access to the elements to mortals.

This is the correct answer.

>Not sure where you're getting the idea that the Spirit world was ever turned into just another part of the real world.
The fact that you can physically walk there through a door. Even bend in the spirit world. That's not parallel like it was in ATLA. Like how the spirit world was closer to the physical world during the solstice. that doesn't make sense anymore.

>It's still part human, part spirit though? The avatar is the human(with their own unique spirit that represents them as a human) and the spirit is Raava(and now Vaatu too).
They're two separate entities now. Not how it was described in ATLA.

>What abou it doesn't make sense?
Because Raava and the Avatar are separate, Korra's connection to her past lives should be independent from her connection to Raava.

>Suddenly everybody in Republic City can do it
only those 4 guys and one was mako

>You must train and learn to unlock the chi path to connect with the element as a bender
when the fuck did that happen

>Now the avatar state is a power boost
it was always a power boost

you need to ether watch the show again or stop putting your headcanon into the show

>Lightning bending is the most difficult ability to use and can only be mastered by the highest of firebenders
It was only scarce because it was a royal secret

>Suddenly everybody in Republic City can do it easily, Zuko just sucked ass for not being able to learn
no, it's still a relatively rare ability, it's just more common than it used to be.

Mako's job payed "good money" so it's still something that isn't common(as evidenced by there being only a few others), otherwise it'd pay cheap. The only other person we see doing it is Lightning Bolt Zolt

>You must train and learn to unlock the chi path to connect with the element as a bender
that's still true

>Apparently you just had to get touched by a lionturtle and you seemlessly bend the elements without training. No martial arts, neutral Jing, Tui/La, spirituality solar power required. Its all Lionturtles magic.
oh, it's another one of you retards. The Lion turtles only gave people the power of the element. Bending is still something learned and developed from observing the animals/moon&ocean. For fucks sake we see Wan learning from a dragon in the show.

>The avatar state is explicitly said by Roku
When did Roku become an unbiased objective source of history and lore? who's to say he wasn't repeating a commonly believed myth?

>Now the avatar state is a power boost from the ultimate spirit of good and peace mixed with harmonic convergence portal energy,
No, it's a power boost from both the past lives and from the spirit of Light and Peace

> "In the era before the avatar we bent the energy inside of us."
as in, other lion turtles.

>JK there has always been bending since way before the avatar,
only Wan was shown to bend, and that's after he learned

> nobody actually ever energybent.
lion turtles did

>Original artbook
where is it stated in an objective way

>and escape from the spirit world states
it does not.

>The fact that you can physically walk there through a door. Even bend in the spirit world. That's not parallel like it was in ATLA.
It is. The portals are just a physical way to walk into the spirit world instead of meditating into it. The portal acts as a doorway into the parallel realm.

>Like how the spirit world was closer to the physical world during the solstice. that doesn't make sense anymore.
How does it not?

>They're two separate entities now. Not how it was described in ATLA.
It was never detailed particularly in ATLA, and never stated to be one thing particular like you're pretending.

>Because Raava and the Avatar are separate, Korra's connection to her past lives should be independent from her connection to Raava.
Raava and the Avatar are not separate. They are permanently bonded beings(outside of two special circumstances that can separate them). Raava holds the past lives because she is acting like a memory backup. Normally, the case seems to be that when a human dies they reincarnate with no memory of their previous life. But the Avatar retains those memories because they have a bond with Raava.

>only those 4 guys and one was mako
And multiple gangsters, and also the fact that the entire power grid of republic city is run by lightning benders. There are countless of them at the factory.

>when the fuck did that happen
Aang with Earthbending, Korra with Airbending, Roku with waterbending.
They couldn't just make a motion and bend. They had to learn to connect and control their chi with the element.

>There are countless of them at the factory.
there were four others besides Mako

>They couldn't just make a motion and bend. They had to learn to connect and control their chi with the element.
Except, you know, Katara moving water and making motions without having any sort of training.

are you going to bitch about mettle benders too and why is it a big problem with you guys and lightning bending the only reason only azula and her dad know it was because they kept it a secret what if iroh was teaching others to do it he is the one to make the fucking thing

most of the retards think you need to know how to fight to bend

Energybenders are allowed to be snowflakes because they're op as fuck.

>Sun or moon turn off
>People lose bending
Why? Its all the magic put in their Genes by the lionturtles. Why does the sun or moon matter if the turtle is the source of their power?

>The "everything roku and all things states in Atla are wrong and Wan/Korra are right" meme
Retcons aren't right if they don't make since with the established lore and story.

>No, it's a power boost from both the past lives and from the spirit of Light and Peace
Wow, and yet Wan gets the same boost without past lives and from only vaguely practicing with the elements by himself for 1 year and never beside harmonic convergence having the ability to wield multiple. How convenient.

Also if you watch the fight, the Portal energy is literally the thing that lets him get the boost and fight/defeat vaatu. When just normally fused with Raava he isn't shit to Vaatu.

>only Wan was shown to bend, and that's after he learned
Everyone bent because everyone got power from the lionturtles. Hell, fucking air normads were flying like nothing, making Aang and all subsequent airbenders look like shit for using dumb air scooters.

>escape from the spirit world does not state this
youtube.com/watch?v=CJyfxHEGRqI

>Original art book
piandao.org/books/atla-artbook/atla-artbook7.jpg

In the original series, the spirit world and the physical world were like mirrors of one another. They're two separate planes of existence that are inextricably linked. For example, we see that when Aang entered the spirit world at the North Pole, he appeared underneath an arch that very closely resembled the one at the spring. Or the time when Iroh 'saw' Roku and his dragon flying over him. Or how the solstices brought the two worlds closer together. It's as if the two worlds were parallel dimensions, where something in the spiritual world affected the physical world and vice versa, and occasionally things can spill out into that other plane of existence. Then in Lok, the spirit portals made it possible to physically WALK there. Instead of feeling like a spiritual, parallel world, it became an extension of the physical world. For me, it completely ruined the mythical nature of the spirit world that ATLA captured so well.

>It was never detailed particularly in ATLA, and never stated to be one thing particular like you're pretending.
The avatar was the human incarnation of the avatar spirit. That's how the whole rebirth and past lives thing worked in the first place. Which is why the avatar spirit being Raava doesn't make sense.

>Raava holds the past lives because she is acting like a memory backup.
Sorry dude, it's a weak justification, and diminishes the importance of the past lives regardless. If you have to do mental gymnastics to make something work it may as well be a retcon.

>Iroh reaches nirvana to enter the spirit world

>Now anybody can enter the spirit world by any of the 3 conveniently placed portals

This hurts the most. Iroh suffers a fate worse than death. Being mortal in old age in a place where anybody can come and kill him as spirits can't bend elements.

>Why? Its all the magic put in their Genes by the lionturtles. Why does the sun or moon matter if the turtle is the source of their power?
The turtle isn't the source of the power in a literal sense, it just gave them the power to wield the element. Based on the info from ATLA

>Retcons aren't right if they don't make since with the established lore and story.
they do make sense though.

>Wow, and yet Wan gets the same boost without past lives
not on the exact same level

>and from only vaguely practicing with the elements by himself for 1 year and never beside harmonic convergence having the ability to wield multiple. How convenient.

>Also if you watch the fight, the Portal energy is literally the thing that lets him get the boost and fight/defeat vaatu.
No, the Portal energy is what fuses Wan to Raava permanently and allows him to use her energy

>When just normally fused with Raava he isn't shit to Vaatu.
He is until he's bonded with Raava for too long

>Everyone bent because everyone got power from the lionturtles. Hell, fucking air normads were flying like nothing, making Aang and all subsequent airbenders look like shit for using dumb air scooters.
None of them were "bending". There were manipulating the elements, yes, but they were not bending.

Bending in the "modern" sense encapsulates all element manipulation, it's a catch-all term.

Bending really refers to the specific martial arts.

>youtube.com/watch?v=CJyfxHEGRqI
again, it doesn't state that the avatar is the spirit of the planet in human form, it just has aang ponder why the avatar is a human instead of an all-knowing spirit

>piandao.org/books/atla-artbook/atla-artbook7.jpg

>"In the series bible, we wrote that “the Avatar is the incarnation of the Spirit of the Planet in human form,“ though we later dropped this idea for the series."
You do realize this goes against you, right? It's stated to be an idea they dropped.

>There are no energybenders besides the avatar

Literally every bender. They explained before people could bend elementals they had to learn to bend spirits ie their own. It's just lower tier

>In the original series, the spirit world and the physical world were like mirrors of one another. They're two separate planes of existence that are inextricably linked. For example, we see that when Aang entered the spirit world at the North Pole, he appeared underneath an arch that very closely resembled the one at the spring. Or the time when Iroh 'saw' Roku and his dragon flying over him. Or how ...
This is still true in TLOK, just not a universally true thing(which is fine). There are places that correlate to real world places, and there are places that don't. Hell, this is true in ATLA oo with things like Koh's Realm

>Then in Lok, the spirit portals made it possible to physically WALK there. Instead of feeling like a spiritual, parallel world, it became an extension of the physical world.
It didn't though. It's still a parallel world, the portal just gives physical entryway into that parallel world. You seem to someone think that a portal automatically removes the parallel aspect, which it does not. Just look at anything that deals with parallel realms or universes. They're typically accessed by portals or wormholes.

>For me, it completely ruined the mythical nature of the spirit world that ATLA captured so well.
That's completely retarded of you.

>The avatar was the human incarnation of the avatar spirit. That's how the whole rebirth and past lives thing worked in the first place.
That is never explicitly stated in the show or any other canon materials.

>Which is why the avatar spirit being Raava doesn't make sense.
It does.

>Sorry dude, it's a weak justification,
It's not a justification, it's a thing that's been around even before we knew the avatar spirit was raava. The implication was always that the past lives come from the avatar spirit.

>and diminishes the importance of the past lives regardless.
nope.

>If you have to do mental gymnastics to make something work it may as well be a retcon.
You don't and it isn't.