STOP BEING MISOGYNISTS LUKE IS THE MARY SUE
>font
kys
He probably should've fucked around with the Force to get on the team
Rey is a Mary Sue, though.
Luke had training, at least. Rey just showed up and is the best to ever do it magically.
>Rebels need pilots
>demonstrate that you are a good pilot
>have a friend from back home vouch for this
>they let you be a pilot
whoa...
>it was established that he had flying experience with biggs
>biggs was good enough for the rebellion
>luke references his experience later on in the movie
>biggs vouched for him
>they were literally about to get wiped out
I fucking hate people under 30
Forgot
> also rescued a prominent political figure and brought the plans to the weapon you must destroy
I was about to say this. Luke already had experience and Biggs was a reference.
a mary sue has to be a writer self insert though doesnt she (he) ?
I guess people think Rey is a Kathleen Kennedy self insert
These people don't know what a Mary Sue is. They heard for the first time in 2015, they are retarded.
That's not what happened. At all.
A bunch of desesperate rebels who need every fucking man they can alist a man who want to fight VS hey you are awesome take this and find our only hope to destroy the First Order muack xoxo
>Issue is Rey
>immediately talks about Luke
Millennials are faggots.
He's right, Star Wars "fan" mental gymnastics are legendary. They don't even understand their own obsession. Every trilogy is the same so far. Luke is instantly good at everything, then Anakin is instantly good at everything, now Rey is and suddenly all the manbaby alt righties have a problem with it.
You've clearly not even watched the movies.
What if the rebels misunderstood Luke and by rats they thought he meant imperial recruits that spied for the empire?
Luke gets BTFO for the entirety of the first two films.
Luke gets shit on by Han mercilessly though. It's only after they've been through 2/3 of the movie together that he starts to trust him.
Meanwhile everyone bends over backwards for Rey everywhere she goes.
luke got his ass kicked all the time
>Luke is instantly good at everything
...
Or they were aware of the Empire's weaponized womp-rat plan and were impressed he helped them out by accident.
>they needed extra pilots in a time where they didn't have enough manpower and the deathstar was powering up
>Luke had piloting experience shooting rats
>Biggs vouched for him
>it was good enough for them to have someone just pilot the damn thing they didnt care if he died or not
It made sense perfectly in star wars
>HOW DARE THEY CRITICIZE MY LITERALLY PERFECT FEMALE ACTION HERO THOSE GODDAMNED MISOGYNISTS
Rey is a Mary Sue because she is instantly liked, trusted and put on a pedestal by everyone she meets.
Han Solo wants her on his crew and trusts her enough to work on the Falcon. Chewbacca watches over her and rips off Unkar's arm to protect her, who also wants her for inexplicable reasons. Maz is willing to give her a lightsaber, and not just any lightsaber, but the Legacy lightsaber of the series. Finn loves her and his sole motivation in rescuing her is that he loves her. The major villains of the movie want her. Princess Leia hugs her and not Chewbacca when Han Solo dies, and personally tells her that the Force is with her. She inherits the Millennium Falcon, Chewbacca, and R2-D2 when one of the three most beloved characters in the franchise is killed off. The primary villain of the movie, Kylo Ren, obsesses over her when she is his prisoner and is the first person in the movie to take his mask off to. Absolutely every single thing is handed to her and her competence and personality are never questioned in any way, shape or form by anyone in the movie.
This is what makes a Mary Sue. Not the fact that she has all of these amazing powers and abilities without even trying or without having been trained, but the fact that absolutely everyone she meets instantly likes and trusts her. This is the true mark of a Mary Sue, and it is due to an inability of a writer to create a compelling character. A Mary Sue will always be a stand-in for how the writer wants the fictional characters to react to them personally.
None of this can be refuted. She is a Mary Sue, and it isn't because she has powers and is a woman. It's because she is horribly written and to defend her is to defend bad writing.
yeah, it's not like the rebellion were in a desperate situation to accept anyone who was willing to help them
tl;dr wahwah sexism wahwahwah my wife's son wahwahwah muh alt-right boogeymen
This image is retarded, why didn't you point out on the right side that Luke destroys the greatest and most well-defended military installation ever built his first 10 minutes in space? Smells like a pathological lying pol star wars neckbeard who doesn't know how to stop lying and cherrypicking.
Luke
>I can fly!
>OK, get this kid an X-Wing
Rey
>I have never flown before!
>Ok, you fly, I shoot
Luke
>You need more training before you can face Vader
>gets beaten by Vader
Rey
>discovers all her force powers on her own
>beats Kylo Ren first try
The sad thing is they cemented the fact that she's a Mary Sue by making her some random super powerful force user. If she was Luke's kid nobody would give a shit.
I don't know why this is even being turned into an argument of misogyny. If anything having a female character without flaws is very unfeminist because it shows the standards are higher for women and they aren't allowed to make mistakes.
Luke is not a marry sue...he gets beaten by a guy with a stick, he mucks up his training,he almost gets killed by a fucking Yetti and Han had to save him he loses to Vader twice.
Yes he's a good pilot and he was force sensitive but that doesn't make him a marry sue, since blowing up the death star was a team effort and he had to be saved by Han, again
Just because a self insert is always a Mary Sue doesn't mean that a Mary Sue is always a self insert you fucking retard
Good bait. I will respond seriously though. Luke was not good at everything, everyone thought he was a naive, short little farm boy with nothing to offer to the Rebellion. Han Solo frequently belittled him, Leia thought he was simple. He gets shit on by Sand people,he can't use the force yet, he failed to save Obi-Wan. He failed so hard during the first two acts of the movie that it took literally blind faith in the force for him to blow up the Death Star. Is that a Mary Sue?
Because that's part of the theme of the movie, retard.
And it's irrelevant. That bottom bullet is the only important part of that image. A character being an inexplicable savant is dumb, but it's not what makes a Mary Sue a Mary Sue. It's when other characters start worshiping the ground they walk on and the Sue starts upstaging established characters.
>Luke can fly
>Therefore it makes sense that he can pilot in space while being shot at from 360 degrees in every direction
How delusional are you? Luke was every bit as ridiculous as Rey. The explanation is that they're tapped into the fabric of the universe or some stupid shit and can see the future subtly which makes them automatically good at everything.
>luke constantly gets his shit pushed in and needs his pals to accomplish things
>MARY SUE MARY SUE SEE I CAN DO IT TOO!
That's the climax of the movie, and it was only one little action that the force guided him to make. Throughout the rest of the movie he's relatively inept.
it's said explicitly in the first star wars film that he's flown actual craft before. His speeder bike isn't "flying"
and the way star wars ships fly in atmosphere or in space makes no difference
Rey needed help with everything she did too you moron
>5 minutes after Luke showed up at the rebellion, AFTER HAVING RESCUED ONE OF THE MAIN LEADERS OF THE REBELLION.
ftfy
It's not unfeminist you fucking retard. If anything it fits what feminism truly is
Jesus you are really delusional.
Well said.
Feminists are against the concept of humanizing women and instead putting them on a pedestal? You sure about that?
Ragtag group of rebels accepting another raw recruit when pilots weren't exactly knocking down their doors is being a Mary Sue?
The only reason they're so butt-hurt of the claim over Rey is that they know its accurate. If she clearly wasn't a Mary Sue they'd just scoff and ignore it. Instead, they know its true and they're forced to redirect.
Yeah, like how she escaped captivity by herself
Or saved Finn from the tentacle monster by herself
Or killed two stormtroopers with headshots from long distance after never using a blaster, by herself
Or fixing the Millenium Falcon by herself to the bewilderment of Han Solo
Or beating up two bad guys by herself as Finn looks on and goes DAAAAAAYUUUM
It goes on and on
>every single reply is dumb millenials jerking themselves off to thinking TFA is more enlightened than ANH
End my fucking life.
>Accomplishes something almost by accident
Nice argument
It's literally from a Star Trek fan fiction with a writer's self insert
>mfw people think rey is a mary sue
>mfw people think luke is NOT a mary sue
Not only that, but the audience sees Luke learn space combat when he defends the Falcon with Han
Which he technically didn't do anyways. The whole team fucked up the plan at every moment. They were carried by R2 and Obi Wan.
Wrong, it comes from a New England author way back in the day (female) who wrote a bunch of shitty novels in which the self-insert female MC is perfect and treated lovingly by everyone.
>Wonder Woman shows up , everyone likes her and she beats everyone up
>Ray shows up , everyone likes her and she beats everyone up
Women evidently want characters who have no challenges. At least male superheroes get beaten up first and then come back to win
>provides an effective rebuttal with evidence
>ha you're delusional
Keep crying, disneyshill.
Wrong (you) it comes from Star Trek (fan fiction) written by a girl (female)
>good enough
Good enough means in this case being there and alive.
Stupid fucking faggot.
>the truth
>delusional
Rey gets a lifetimes worth of flight craft prowess in 5 minutes in TFA. Luke got a lifetime of it over the course of a lifetime. Rey gets years of training worth in a couple of days with no mentor. Luke gets years of training and experience with two mentors.
calm the fuck down and use your head. Rey was made too powerful to be interesting
>Some soyboy thinks Rey isn't a mary sue and Luke is
Checks out
It comes from both of them. The history of Mary Suedom is not binary.
>Luke was every bit as ridiculous as Rey.
Luke is constantly shown failing, struggling and having people treat him as just some dumb kid. This is to setup the catharsis at the end of the movie, where he's finally able to use his talent and faith in something greater in himself to overcome the impossible. This is called a "character arc", which is a hallmark of basic storytelling. Something I know you know nothing about, since you're defending Disney Wars.
Rey never is challenged as a character, thus is totally stagnant throughout the entire movie. She never fails, she never struggles and she never has anyone treat as anything less than a golden child. The only obstacles she overcomes are literal obstacles, i.e. badguys that she has to beat up.
You are a pleb.
You're both wrong. It's from a fanfic explicitly parodying those kinds of fanfics. While the original Mary Sue indeed came from that story, that Mary Sue was deliberately written as perfect and loved by everyone to make a comment on the fanction community at the time.
Except men are the writers, directors and primary audience of these movies.
Literally the only thing she needed someone else to do for her in the entire movie was Chewie showing up with the Millenium Falcon and taking her off Starkiller base.
And with the way they treated her, there was no reason to assume she couldn't have just stolen a Tie Fighter if given a bit of time.
That being said, the main issue isn't that she can do so many things, it's that we have no idea what she can and cannot do. She has no measuring stick to establish her limits.
Remember that "pointless" opening to Return of the Jedi? Luke fighting Jabba's men, using the force to do acrobatics, being able to choke guards and still getting shot in the hand was the movie's way of establishing just how good he got between movies, so that we have a sense for his chances against Vader.
Rey just keeps doing brand new shit throughout the movie and is an expert at all of it, and we have less of an idea as to what task is too big for her to handle than when two invulnerable superheroes impotently smash each other through buildings and we have to guess if either of them can even feel it.
>struggling rebel army accepts all cannon fodder
This literally happens in every war.
See, this is why I really think these SJWs and numales actually can't follow along in a movie. They literally don't understand a children's movie.
Because if you were making this analogy you'd instead focus on how Luke was the only one who could use the force and destroy the Death Star. Of course you'd immediately get shut down since Luke isn't overpowered at all in ANH. He gets spirit guidance from Obi-Wan. He's saved by Han in the trench run. He's covered on the way in by a bunch of other people who die.
Rey can do everything. She's the most powerful force user ever and she doesn't even need training. She also knows how to fly, not with any backstory about bored farm life making it her only escape, but she just knows. She duels and wins with a lightsaber with no training. She resists sith probing her mind because.. she's just great.
So, they don't watch the movies before they write their apologia. Or they don't understand them.
But just make it simple for them. Ask them to write down what Rey's negative traits are. What's her weaknesses?
Han Solo spends the entire movie up until just prior to the Death Star run doubting Luke and questioning his competence. They're very first encounter displays that he is a Brash and arrogant individual who thinks highly of himself and doubts that Luke could pilot a ship by himself. It is only when Luke and he make up prior to the Death Star run that they truly become friends.
The very first thing Princess Leia says when she sees him is that he is short. She then spends the rest of the rescue criticizing them for how poorly planned this entire operation is. It is only after Obi-Wan dies that she feels sad for him, and she knew Obi-Wan as well.
Red leader doubts Luke until his best friend from childhood vouches for him. The only two people to instantly trust and like Luke are his best friend and the mentoring wizard who has been watching over him his entire life, both of which are character archetypes that Rey does not have.
Darth Vader does not even know who Luke is in the first movie.
Continuing on into the next films, Yoda immediately talks down to Luke and claims that he cannot be a Jedi. He reluctantly trains Luke even though he says Luke has no patience whatsoever. Jabba the Hutt does not fear Luke and absolutely refuses the Jedi's offer of peace, laughing about it.
The difference between Luke and Rey, setting aside all manner of power level arguments, is that people react reasonably and normally to Luke. Rey however is immediately liked and trusted by everyone she meets and is never so much as talked down to once in the film.
Both Luke and Rey accomplished amazing feats. Both of them have a connection to the force. But one of them is written well, and the other one is not.
So this....... is the power........ of Disney marketing
whoa.......
Rey is the biggest bullshit of a character I've watched in recent times and that's saying something. She has absolutely no flaws aside from being ugly as fuck.
>mfw soyboys don't even know what mary sue even means
Check thisAnd go kill yourself.
Because it wasn't presented as "wow look is so good he can beat the death star alone" it was clearly shown that the force allowed him to achieve the impossible. Rey is always presented as doing well because she is so cool and smart she can do everything. That's the difference.
see
You don't even know where Mary Sue comes from, faggot.
>Because it wasn't presented as "wow look is so good he can beat the death star alone"
Pretty fucking sure the point of that scene was the highlight the character, so yeah, it was presented to make him look cool.
Christ, are you denying the main appeal of characters now for the sake of meme arguments?
That's exactly what is describing.
The original Mary Sue was a parody, so you're literally basing your writing critique on a joke.
No, brainlet, the point of that scene was to complete Luke's character arc.
There was no arc, he just immediately succeeds at everything.
>star wars OT fan calling anyone else a brainlet
the only people on this site dumber than you are are the neo-nazi shills. that's literally it.
>be farmer boy who has never experiences real life combat
>make a one-in-a-million shot because muh force
So a Gary Stu.
It was a parody of stereotypical bad fanfiction characters. When someone describes a character as a "Mary Sue", they're saying that the character is written like a bad fanfiction character.
Are you this dense?
Did you even watch the movie?
Yes, I watched the movie. It's hilarious that you pretend him failing to block a laser once until an old man says a platitude at him counts as failure or a character arc.
This is just sad. Usually the stupidity I encounter here just makes me laugh. This is depressing.
Neither are Mary Sues. Rey just has a very under developed character arc compared to most other characters in the movie. Anyone who thinks otherwise simply doesn't understand what a Mary Sue actually is.
So looks like you are who don't know what a mary sue is
Daily reminder that if Rey was a dude he'd be the most hated Star Wars protagonist since kid Anakin.
Ah yes, the very manly Patty Jenkins directed Wonder Woman.
Yes, because that's the only time Luke ever struggled, ever.
Good post.
You should kill yourself.
>When someone describes a character as a "Mary Sue", they're saying that the character is written like a bad fanfiction character.
When people describe a character as a Mary Sue, they genuinely think such an exaggerated character existed, when in fact it was deliberately written that way to make a point. Don't pretend you knew where Mary Sue came from, faggot. A lifetime of repeating shit you know nothing about doesn't make you an expert.
>*watches The Last Jedi anyways*
How else are you gonna shit up the board with forced memes, right?
Therefore, both of them are Mary Sue.
Why are numales so embarrassing?
Not an argument, soyboy redditor.
>Luke had training, at least.
he was also dragged around by Ben and only showed any agency after he died
I think it's pretty fucking funny that you think those scenes are there to communicate Luke's failures, instead of just being cliche scenes where the main character stops believing in himself 5 minutes into his training only to remember how ~special~ he is.
People like you really need to take the Star Wars cock out your mouth.
I think it's pretty fucking funny that you mange to breathe with your double digit IQ as you clearly can't follow a basic children's movie.
>n-no
Hey, you tried.
>when in fact it was deliberately written that way to make a point
And that point was one of criticizing bad writing and characterization.
>Don't pretend you knew where Mary Sue came from, faggot
It's common knowledge. I'm not sure what you're so mad about.