I see people loving it and I see people hating it. Am I the only one that has actually no fucking clue on how to feel about this damn movie? I'm so conflicted I actually can't even tell if I enjoyed it overall or not. On one hand, it had so many silly moments that took me out of it, like when Yoda used thunder to burn the Jedi records, or when Snoke was killed by the most contrived way of force I've ever seen, or that whole sequence in the casino and the alien horse races that felt like complete filler. But on the other, it managed to make Rey and Kylo such intriguing characters that I want to follow along, and gave out a better Luke Skywalker send off than I could ever have imagined. HELP ME OUT, Sup Forums. The fuck do I think about this movie?
I see people loving it and I see people hating it...
No, I agree.
It was a mixed bag. It's gonna take a while to process it.
I felt the same way when i first saw it Thursday. On Friday I thought about it more and started to dislike it, today I pretty much hate it
Basically the more I think about it the more I find wrong
It's bad, but it's not safe or a re-hash. Most of the criticisms of TFA don't apply to TLJ.
>Am I le only one
The answer is always no
Same here. Waiting for RLM to decide my opinion on it.
Absolutely adored it. It's the most bold SW film since the OT and tv got caught in the pleb filter
This desu based frogposter
Rey took the books with her. Yoda was just fucking with Luke.
yeh, movie had nice scenes, but also lot of WHAT THE FUCK ARE THE DOING stuff
it has nice moments, but in general I still think its a mess.
the way Luke is treated is nothing short of a character assassination
Leia should have died after exploding into space
Lukes anime fight was bollocks
Phasma went out after having 30 sec of screentime in stupid fashion
Hux is nothing but a comic book villain
Poe and "yo mama" jokes should not be in Star Wars movies
fucking Porgs man
whole casino plot could be erased and the movie would hardly change
Ackbar dying offscreen was just retarded, all we get is a comment "ackbar is kill"
Snoke joins the list of Star Wars villains that die before we even get to know them
Rey learns to become a jedi in about 2 days of "training" (including swimming lessons because how else would this brave young woman be able to swim, having spent the rest of her life living on a sand planet)
Some of the shots look cool for sure. Some jokes were okay, but in general there were too many of them, its at Marvel-tier of shooting shitty puns now every few mins.
All in all, it just doesn't feel like a Star Wars movie at all. It stands apart from every other SW film as far apart as possible.
And lets face it, many of the events were very much copies of Episode 5. (le structural borrowing meme)
>felt like filler
Absolutely this. Felt like a bad filler episode of an anime
I thought the whole very slowly moving away from the bad guys really killed any excitement
The movie has a ton of flaws, but they objectively got Luke right.
I am really curious to see what they think. They could nitpick this movie to death, if they wanted.
This movie felt like a polished and hashed out prequel rather than continuing the story.
It's not terrible but the Casino bits, the useless characters, the cheesy jokes... It's a prequel themed movie set in the Nuverse. Rian Johnson if he was allowed to direct Episode II might have saved Attack of The Clones, but this steaming pile of plot diarrhea is going to give a writer for Episode IX brain cancer or an aneurysm.
Literally only brainless retard star wars fanboys could have actually liked this movie.
Things I learned about technology in this movie:
1. Fighters are totally fucking invincible unless you have fighters of your own. Don't even bother building turrets, they are useless and will get picked off in seconds since they are made of glass and wired with explosives. And those fighters? They fly right through your shields and into your ship which brings us to 2:
2. No matter how massive your ship is a single enemy ship can take it out in a hyperspace suicide run. Which begs the question of why small, lightly crewed ships aren't routinely used for just this purpose. Hell, just put bombs on fighters and use THEM for suicide runs on capital ships.
TL;DR the ship to shop combat rules in this setting makes no fucking sense.
Was fantastic up until the last probably 30-45 minutes, pretty much as soon as Snoke dies.
Killing off Luke is so obviously a commercial decision so Disney can move on with new, younger characters without relying on Hamil, but the movie suffers from it. There was no reason he had to die, and he is such an integral part of the Star Wars universe it is just going to feel empty without him, and I don't care enough about any of the new characters yet to replace him.
Snoke's death is interesting because it helps to develop Kylo, but makes Snoke to be almost a joke character after seeing him use the force in such powerful ways, and Kylo has already lost to Rey twice now, so there's really no tension going into the final film.
I would have liked Rey and Luke fighting Kylo/Snoke in the final film, and then Hamil bowing out of the franchise if Disney really needed him to. Might have been a bit contrived, but I still would have loved it.
I liked the Luke, Rey and Kylo parts, I'm lukewarm on the resistance stuff and I hated the casino plot
I feel the same. There are parts I like and pats I don't. And they don't form a coherent piece whatsoever.
The whole movie looks like it was meant to troll JJ Abrams. By both shitting on TFA (fuck Snoke, fuck Rey's parents, fuck First Order) and leaving a mess to deal with in the sequel.
Because literally nothing happens other than Luke dissappearing from the script.
Episode 9 could release right now and this movie would have no effect on it.
Rey didn't need any training, she knew everything and did everything herself.
Snoke threads went nowhere
kylo vs Luke and their back story went nowhere
Leia is still ALIVE
and Kylo is still the bad guy
Nothing happens except Luke and Snoke disappearing from the scripts.
Pity you can't see the kino forest through the force trees user
Oh yeah, and 3: Though you have a massive fleet and a million (as previously established) hugely overpowered fighters, don't bother to send a massive swarm of them against the enemy ships which are somehow both (A) not outrunning you and (B) staying just within extreme cannon range.
>2. No matter how massive your ship is a single enemy ship can take it out in a hyperspace suicide run. Which begs the question of why small, lightly crewed ships aren't routinely used for just this purpose. Hell, just put bombs on fighters and use THEM for suicide runs on capital ships.
they could also probably just have "giant torpedoes" with hyperspace engines, that are functioning as basically space nukes
Hell, CIS would have won the Clone Wars by having droids do suicide runs against any enemy ship they see, win win win.
they are now in a phase of literally shitting on established canon in any way possible as long as it makes Darth Mickey get a few more shekels
You're still in denial this is the official episode VIII of Star Wars.
You'll grow to hate it soon enough.
Luke will be back as a force ghost though. SNoke was just a poor man's Sheev anyway so don't mind that they made him a red herring isntead of just a rehash character
I too only take opinions from based review kinos
This. People bitching about Luke are just mad that he wasn't space jesus. The casino plot deserves all the shit it gets though
I'VE BECOME SO NUMB
>oh I'm still here rey, I guess I'll train you now, it will be like episode 8 never happened.
PERFECT! TLJ has no effect on anything.
>There was no reason he had to die, and he is such an integral part of the Star Wars universe it is just going to feel empty without him, and I don't care enough about any of the new characters yet to replace him.
does anybody else see where this is going
the whole crew are gonna fly around in the millennium falcon like scooby and the gang for endless amounts of movies.
disney has ruined any creative spark in the series by turning it into a giant cashcow to be milked every 6 months.... sad part is people will go and see it, like that marvel shit.
I haven't seen it, but that is exactly how I felt about TFA. It was a roller coaster and fun...then after thinking about it, oh man was it a pile of sit that got worse and worse.
I feel the exact same, user. However they end up handling IX will either make this one of my favorite installations, or below even AOTC. It would be so easy for them to make this into some horrible "pure wonderful good Rey vs eeeeeeeevil Kylo Ren" and just end the saga by killing the last of the Skywalkers, but I'm hoping for Ben Solo redemption route, because otherwise all these themes of love, hope, redemption and sacrifice meant utterly nothing across 9 films.
This is my thought as well. It basically frees up Disney to do whatever they want with the series going forward without having them have to rely on Hamil, because it would make no sense for the characters not to turn to Luke whenever shit goes down
It had some really fun parts and some headscratching parts, all together I enjoyed watching it as a standalone piece but as a part of the larger narrative it was totally out of place tonally
I'm the same, I don't hate it but it's just not a good movie. Like so many Hollywood movies they try to virtue signal at the cost of making the best movie they can.
>Am I the only one that has actually no fucking clue on how to feel about this damn movie?
Pleb. Wait for the RLM review to tell you what to think about it.
How the fuck can't you tell if you liked something after seeing it? I see this statement all the time and it make zero sense, just makes you seem like someone who is incapable of forming their own opinion.
I mean I liked the fact I the plot points didn't response the way I expected, but since it is a deconstruction of the Star Wars themes (one person in a star fighter can turn the tide of battle, your friends provide mortal grounding, there was once a dream that was Rome) I don't know if I'm just being a man baby for regretting not seeing my space wizards and Lazer swords.
I guess it all boils down to a one word synopsis: de-mystifying
test
People whining that Luke was the bitter samurai master living in the forgotten temple are plebs of the highest order. That was probably the most interesting thing they could have done with him.
I'm sure there will be scooby doo moments like that, especially since that basically just happened with the casino bit in this movie. But if you think what Disney is aiming for is "safe" after this movie, you might be a bit crazy.
These.
Luke is the one thing they undoubtedly got right in this movie.
>But on the other, it managed to make Rey and Kylo such intriguing characters that I want to follow along
Except that was one of the worst parts. The movie dedicates so much time to playing with the idea of Rey and Kylo either switching sides or forming their own side, but it never goes anywhere. They end up right back where they started. There's implied character development without any actual character development.
That's what they should have done instead of the "let's deplete a sun lmao"-weapon in TFA
>How the fuck can't you tell if you liked something after seeing it?
I think OP explained it pretty well. There's good stuff and there's bad stuff and it's hard to weigh in everything together.
I loved it but here is a list of legit criticisms.
>Space Leia
>Laura Dern keeping her plan secret for no reason
>pacing of the affirmative action subplot
If you hate it for any reason other than those listed above, you are objectively a low IQ pleb. Light speed missile is not a plot hole btw.
Just copied Yoda and Obi wan? They couldn't think of anything else to do with him?
Luke wouldn't just give up and Mark Hamill thought the same. The only reason he does is that we have to have a fallen JEdi for the narrative of a new trilogy to work.
Luke didn't fail because of his character flaws or some problem in his personal philosophy, he failed because a new trilogy demands it.
So what's the deal with Luke? Am I too stupid to get it?
He's fighting Kylo, disappears when he get struck, reappears on the temple planet, and then disappears again (for good?).
So what's up with that? My take away is that Kylo actually killed Luke in self-defense at Luke's Jedi Temple when he was kid but his (force) ghost haunted him for a decade.... however, I feel like that's probably not the take-away the writers intended.... theories? What happened?
My brother said she kept it a secret because she was worried about having a spy aboard and wasn't sure how they were being tracked. We both agreed that made sense until we realized even if there was a spy they did nothing to stop anyone from getting on the transports so the end result would have been the same. So she really did end up keeping her plan a secret for no reason at all
The way I interpreted it, Luke was so powerful that he was actually projecting his image from the other side of the galaxy. Physically, he never left the island. That's why that force ghost was able to survive all the billion shots against it. There was nothing there.
>Snoke's death is interesting because it helps to develop Kylo
He developed and then regressed back to where he was before, so even that was pointless. He's still a "conflicted" (read: angsty) little shit fighting for the First Order, except now he's the leader although it doesn't make a difference because they already threw away any pretense of Snoke being an important character anyway.
Everything in this film was pointless.
So I’m at the first showing at a local theater. And the light speed kamakazee scene happens. (Which by the way, I loveeeeee how that was done). So the theater is dead quiet. In awe. With the white a black shots flickering on the screen.
And right as the last shot comes up in this sequence, this boy, probably around 8 years old, let out the most genuine and awe inspired “wow” out loud.
It got to me. That’s what Star Wars is. That’s what it’s about. The awe, the amazement, the sense of wonder of a galaxy far far away....
Just Thought I’d share.
>They end up right back where they started. There's implied character development without any actual character development.
Now THIS is the most pleb criticism of the movie I have seen. It would've been hackneyed as fuck if Kylo and Rey had switched sides. They went through plenty of development, Kylo in particular, and you'd have to be absolutely autistic to miss it.
His entire motivation and defining character trait from TFA have been completely discarded by the end of TLJ. Maybe you didn't notice because the characters don't explain exactly how they are feeling every 2 seconds like in the prequels
I took it as a "If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine.” type moment. He used the last bit of power he had in his physical body to do that and then ascended to the level above after that that's between living and the dead with Yoda and Obi-Wan
What if who Kylo killed wasn't Snoke at all? What if that was just somebody that Snoke was puppeting behind the scenes to act as a figurehead for him in a sort of Wizard of Oz style?
>The fuck do I think about this movie?
Think more for yourself
Unironically this
This post is way too happy to be from Sup Forums. Did you copy paste it from somewhere else?
>not liking what they did to Luke even when Hamill hates it isn't a legit criticism
>not liking that lazy killing off of Snoke isn't legit
>not liking that retarded Yoda scene isn't criticism
Conflicted suffering characters are my favorite form of cinema. They just really wrote Luke awfully. If you got someone like Zack Snyder (not memeing) to write this film, Snyder would have better explained why Luke abandoned everyone and what his real motives are and what he is thinking deep inside.
So in my opinion after seeing this film twice (second time was free so don't call me a shill by paying for it twice), I believe Luke of course hated himself for what he had done by isolating himself for so long. Therefore he decided to appear as a hologram in front of Kylo to see if Kylo really did want him did (as he did). Therefore Luke says "If you kill me I will be with you forever" hence in Episode 9, Luke will be mentally tormenting Kylo. Well I hope that is what they do.
I actually like the theme of "forget the past, move forward" and "the heroes journey doesnt end when the bad guy is killed" but I dont think Star Wars is the place for such a story, people WANT the Jedi and Sith battles, people want a big bad guy and family lineage connecting people to the force so they have powers. The way the story is going it looks like its going to dismantle the Jedi and Sith, and anyone can use the force, not just people of special birth, its why Rey can do all that forceshit, its why that kid reaches for a broom using the forceat the end, its saying that there are people out there that arent Luke Skywalker and can use the force. The problem here is that it fucks with Star Wars as people know it, I personally am conflicted on this aswell, I really dont like that its fucking with the lore and replacing good characters with these new no-marks I dont care about at all, I wanted a good guys vs bad guys story. Again, I like the deconstruction, but Star Wars was probably not the place for this story, people actually want that heroes journey story with Star Wars, its what made SW what it is. Its not a predictable mythos now, we have no idea what the next movie is going to be, it stopped being predictable and that is almost to its detriment, just look at the average pop corn shovellers reaction to this. They dont like that its different and things they expected to happen didnt happen. Its by no means the best SW movie but its certainly not the fucking worst.
The problem is that all the good parts could still exist if they had fixed the bad parts. There was no need to have this movie be good and bad at the same time.
>good
driver and hamill's performances
snoke's throne room scene
the overall cinematography and visuals
cool shit like the lightspeed kamikaze
Poe being charming
But all the rest is either mediocre, bad or downright shit.
Mark Hamill is wrong about Luke Skywalker. They did right by his character. Not shitting on him, though, I thought his performance was great. Kudos on the guy for working with the script and doing his best even if he personally dislikes how it went. In a show of true life pottery, he turned into Alec Guinness as his character turned into Obi Wan.
It's simply not believable that Luke would turn from who he was at the end of ROTJ into a guy abandoning his family, friends and all he cared about by letting them die to space nazis 2.0
No they fucked Luke's character pretty badly, he was the positive one, always up beat and ready to fight. There needed to be a more compelling reason for him to be on the island and in isolation. Shutting himself off from the force while just happening to be on the planet that contains all the Jedi knowledge is stupid.
Of course. I don't think anyone is trying to excuse the bad parts of this movie by saying that they were required. I completely agree with you. At the same time, I still feel like the movie had good parts, which is why it's so hard to judge it overall.
>Am I the only one that has actually no fucking clue on how to feel about this damn movie?
I am sure there are plenty of low-agency retards in your position. I bet you're the sort of drone that just follows the trends and never has any truly personal opinions.
>It would've been hackneyed as fuck if Kylo and Rey had switched sides
They didn't have to switch sides, they could have joined their own side as well as Kylo wanted them to.
>They went through plenty of development, Kylo in particular, and you'd have to be absolutely autistic to miss it.
Absolutely not. Kylo wants to abandon ship from all sides and make his own order with Rey, she refuses, he throws another one of his tantrums because he felt like she betrayed him and his mannerisms are clear in expressing it, he CONTINUES to throw tantrums when reuniting with Luke, and he's still fighting in the interests of the First Order with absolutely no political shift or ideology change since Snoke was thrown out. He's literally exactly where he started.
Same thing with Rey. What fucking development did she have?
Plebs
This is what happens when you put a woman with no creative bone in her body in charge. Don't be fooled, Rian Johnnson only dealt with the boring shit during the production. All these ideas were cooked up by some dumb committee led by Kathleen Kennedy.
>he CONTINUES to throw tantrums
Therefore he had no character development. THIS is how low IQ you are, it's really sad. Here's a hint, character development doesn't mean your whole temperament changes you absolute spastic.
Rey had a bunch of development, through her relationship with Ben, Luke, and finally accepting the truth about her origins. What more do you want? What does character development look like to you?
This is probably the most sound observation Ive actually seen of the movie yet, its not blatant love for it and its not hating it because its different and fails at things. For fuck sake the movie is not worse than the prequels, what message does that send to Disney that the prequels are better than something that actually wants to expand start wars rather than retread it.
Still dont like what they did with Luke, couldve done that way better, but it had a fucking point.
Rey and Kylo stuff was actually decent. Too bad that most other parts are a clusterfuck.
Like getting thrown in prison for a parking violation?
Which reddit post is this?
You can't seriously have liked the cringe banter shit.
>am I still on hold?
They literally explain how he evolved that way:
Luke becomes a legend at the end of ROTJ ->
starts a Jedi Academy because he's an awesome legend->
realizes too late that he's a garbage teacher, because he's a legend and doesn't want to admit failure ->
panics and tries to kill Vader 2.0 in his sleep ->
fails, all his students die or turn evil ->
becomes crotchety depressed man
>Therefore he had no character development
When you can summarize Kylo's entire character by describing his temperament and inner conflict, then yes, that's exactly what that means. None of this changes by the end of the film.
>Here's a hint, character development doesn't mean your whole temperament changes you absolute spastic
Literally the only change was that he became the leader of the First Order, which means nothing because, again, there's absolutely no implied change in ideology, overall motive or political outlook. He's just the leader now, which has nothing to do with his actual personality.
>Rey had a bunch of development, through her relationship with Ben, Luke, and finally accepting the truth about her origins
Accepting the truth about her origins was the only piece of development Rey had and it didn't contribute anything at all thematically.
>I like the deconstruction, but Star Wars was probably not the place for this story, people actually want that heroes journey story with Star Wars
This right here is the exact problem. This was not the kind of story a mainline Star Wars movie shouldve had, it shouldve been in some spin off trilogy.
>all movies up to this point work on the heroes journey archetype and how the dark side is bad and the jedi are good
>last 2 movies are going to be about how the hero archetype is fundamentally flawed and the Sith and Jedi are both flawed and dogmatic religions rather than the Jedi simply being inherently good
I appreciate that kind of story but not here. Imagine if LotR continued with another trilogy after Return of the King, there is another more powerful ring, Aragorn is now a homeless old man, Frodo joins Sauron, Gimli and Legolas are both replaced by gay black women characters and the trilogy sets out to dismantle the "good vs evil" story. This isnt the place for it, the story was over and it worked, dont undo it and replace all the beloved characters with characters that are simply lame comparatively.
To be fair, it's an asshole casino.
>Shutting himself off from the force while just happening to be on the planet that contains all the Jedi knowledge is stupid.
Wow, it's like he has a complex relationship with the force where he can't fully reject it and resenting himself for it
He's the equivalent of being suicidal but not being brave enough to kill youself
I thought it was boring up until the final act, then that dragged out for too long and I got bored again. I really don't care about anything they did to the characters, they just failed to entertain me so it's bad in my book.
in fact, it's probably more boring than the prequels. Maybe on par with phantom menace.
>For fuck sake the movie is not worse than the prequels, what message does that send to Disney that the prequels are better than something that actually wants to expand start wars rather than retread it.
But the prequels were the ones that expanded the universe not the sequels. There is still no world building or proper storytelling in TLJ. Is that what you meant?
You can't mean that. Attack of the Clones is so much more fucking boring than this.
It has beautiful shots
On the other hand, if don't have the attention span of a porg and can reset every 15 seconds your mind, the editing and pacing blunders coupled with "risky" and not needed scenes( space Leia anyone? This should be more or less universal) destroy any kind of tension and engagement you can build up watching a movie
This as a general view, to that you can add the personal pet peeves, one of mine is that the movie starts with a prank call.
You step out of the theater feeling nothing
okay well I haven't seen 2 in a long time but yeah now that I remember it was a snooze too. maybe tlj was slightly better than those two.
>had and it didn't contribute anything at all thematically.
>it doesn't count because I say so
Yeah fuck off, I'm not going to continue arguing with an intellectually dishonest goalpost moving shithead.
>Ackbar dying offscreen was just retarded, all we get is a comment "ackbar is kill"
Wow, I forgot about this. What a shitty sendoff.
>It has beautiful shots
Agreed. Luke's death and the Rey scene with the mirrors stood out to me.
It's not as bad as the prequels but it's still a bad movie. I'll call it mediocre if it makes people fell better. It's just not good. It's not above a 6/10. And it's fixable too. You could cut out all the shit in this movie as all other posters have said and turn this movie into an 8/10 at least.
Like fuck the character Rose and Fin, fuck them. Kill them. They are useless.
I'm not moving the goalpost, I'm acknowledging that you're right about Rey but still dramatically overplaying her development. Accepting that her parents were shitmongers doesn't actually do much to develop her character. it doesn't feel nearly as substantial as you're implying.
I'll admit it was more development than Kylo ever had though, which is a fucking shame because I liked what they were about to do with his character in the film before he just regressed again.
>space Leia anyone? This should be more or less universal
To be fair, literally no one is defending that scene.
The burning tree too morphing into the republic symbol too
Another one is introduction to the throne room
Has anyone defended the casino yet? Because that whole sequence of scenes felt like a waste of time to me, as OP said. The Code Breaker was kinda cool, I guess.
Super Leia was shit, the Canto Bite (casino planet) plot was shit (though I liked Benicio's character) and was literally pointless and pretty much the entire character of Rose sucked. Yoda's scene had good intentions but was executed poorly. The initial shot of him looked fucking silly as hell (up close shots looked great though, like straight out of ESB) and Luke going to burn the tree down looked rushed/forced. I like that they tried to give Yoda that hint of silliness but it actually felt out of place and the scene felt rushed overall. Also, there was just too much forced humor. Poe fucking with Hux was fun but was a bit too much IMO.
I read them and they're numerous and i still can't find a review that single out that scene.
What Im saying is its not on the same level as that shite in terms of narrative, absolutely not. Rogue One isnt even worse than those movies, this and RO are just lame stories that dont really belong to Star Wars thematically, the prequels are a mess in terms of visuals and logic, not just narrative, you cant deny that these new movies look good, and you can follow them even if you dont like the story. The story isnt bad it just isnt what I want of Star Wars at all. User rating should be higher, something in the 60 or 70, the critics are wrong for giving it something in the 90% aswell, I have no idea what movie they were watching and if it was just the afterglow reaction to getting a review out quickly that made them do it. My point was the movie isnt as bad as the prequels like the user score suggests, its just so different that people who go into the movie wearing jedi robes and swinging plastic lightsabers are going to fucking loathe it.
Yes, my problem is that its rated worse than the prequels and its simply not as bad. Mediocre is the perfect word for it as you said. Get rid of all that Finn and Rose(is that her name?) stuff, it felt jarring when it kept cutting away, the Luke and Rey stuff was fantastic. Get rid of the MILKIES shit and Leia doing the superman thing too, what the fuck was that shit.
It felt like prequel territory, like they were building the universe but using a 1950s diner to do it.
It was literally pointless and contributed nothing to the plot. They LITERALLY just made shit up for Fin to do the entire movie because he had no purpose. They should have just had him stay in a coma and cut out the casino planet shit entirely. Would have cut the movie down to 2 hours and nothing would have been lost. Do that and remove super Leia and the movie instantly goes up 2 stars.
>its just so different that people who go into the movie wearing jedi robes and swinging plastic lightsabers are going to fucking loathe it.
I think that's part of why I'm really positive on it.
A quote from my friend: Just got home from seeing Last Jedi and I don't even know if I can sleep, still processing how incredible it was. I'm gonna be thinking about it for days and seeing it several more times. Probably the best Star Wars film yet with Empire Strikes Back and Rogue One rounding out the top three.
That last part about rogue one makes me immediately discredit his opinion, cause boy did that movie blow dick.
- Unfunny jokes.
- WTF count through the roof.
- Washing machine action.
- Fuck your plot revelation expectations.
- Here are some cute disney animals.
Yeah, it's weird. There's stuff I think is genuinely shit (Finn and Rose's entire plot and super Leia) but then there's stuff like Snoke getting killed halfway into the movie, Luke astral traveling and dying as a result and the lack of any real lightsaber duel that I think are great. The thought of all those fanboy nerds getting blue-balled when Kylo and Luke never had a sword battle makes my fucking day.