Are they right?

Are they right?

Its getting torn apart because its shit

What risks did it take exactly? I'm asking honestly, because at the moment it looks exactly the same as the original trilogy if Palpy died a movie early.

lol what risks? Rehashing empire strikes back only obi dies in the second one and not the first one?

They're just strawmanning the criticism.

A risk would have been Rey joining Kylo

(me)

yeah this it's empire only with shittier effects and obi dies one movie later while palpatine dies one movie earlier

TFA was a fucking remake of a New Hope, it wasn't taking it safe at all. Also it had shit ton of other problems.

This took risks, yeah but also shit on characters so hard and without real reason. This shit is for the books on how not to do a movie franchise.

>there is no middle ground between just remaking a film, and completely throwing established characters out of the window

>What risks
Luke having a whole new outlook on life mainly.

They failed both at playing it safe and taking risks

Making a shitty $250m movie seems pretty risky to me

Force Awakens was shit because it felt like a carbon copy of the first film.

There's a difference between good risk and bad risk

What are these people called? The ones who literally pull shit out of their arse just to defend something they love?

>taking risks = overpowering everything to force impressions on dumbasses

hackery

Killing the main bad guy is a pretty big risk. Can't wait for the thrilling conclusion of Ray defeating Kylo again.

>people actually think they're smart making brain dead reductivist fellatio tweets like this

Something huge happened in his life that changed him. It’s like Yoda or Obiwan after order 66. You couldn’t expect them to behave the same way or they would be killed.

>ESB and ROTJ plotlines thrown in a blender
>practically rehashed TFA as well by having another OT character die because of Kylo Ren's stupidity
WOW IT TOOK RISKS

Fanboys. I couldn't imagine being in a 'fandom'. How empty must your life be to have it revolve around a corporate franchise?

Yeah, but his role in the film is identical to Obi-wan's in a New Hope. Aged mentor teaches younger student then sacrifices himself in their defense.

You might be surprised that Luke is a miserable failure, but the way the character as an old mentor is used is utterly predictable.

>don't take any risks
>make a shitty movie
>"your movie is bad"
>take a ton of risks
>make a shitty movie
>"your movie is bad"
Maybe try making a good movie in the future.

Strawmans are never right.

Is there any board on Sup Forums that isn't about twitter screenshots?

It'd have been more of a risk if Snoke was an actual character

Jumping infront of a car is pretty risky you know
doesnt make it a good idea

But the Last Jedi was also a rehash, what is this meme that it took risks?
Only new thing about it was that it took place over like 12 hours and pretty much after the last movie ended.

I agree with this - which is why I mentioned Palpatine. They have removed the "big bad" and replaced him with a more interesting villain, but not a threatening one. This is the main risk the movie took, as far as I can see - risking the last film having no tension because Rey is just going to beat his ass.

Underrated post.

>risking the last film having no tension because Rey is just going to beat his ass
Oh fuck, you're actually right. I guess they did take risks and took the whole fucking ship down with them on that one.

This, and a difference between good homage (the original Star Wars was a good homage to shit Lucas liked) and bad "homage" (copying superficial details without capturing the heart of the original like TFA).

The path they took to stick him on the island undid all his growth over the original trilogy and made him less mature and more cowardly than he was even at the beginning of ANH.

Decimating Luke's character isn't a "risk". It's an objectively bad decision. As is ignoring, or cutting dead, TFA's plot lines. A risk might have been if they were to change up the empire-rebellion dynamic. Which is something everyone would welcome. When people say they want something new from these movies, what they mean is new storylines, new characters, new environments. Nobody wants the original trilogy and the actions of Luke, Han and Leia to be rendered completely meaningless.

Threat and resolution can only really go two ways now:

>Rey beating Kylo Ren for a third time
>An extragalactic entity that was backing Snoke, reveals itself. Displeased with his failure, they attempt to seize the galaxy themselves

So either they retread the climax of the past two movies or they copy from Disney's other property: The Avengers

>I made tea with no sugar, people asked for sugar
>I made tea with 100 spoons of sugar, people asked for less sugar
There's no winning with those spoiled tea fans!

This. There's a reason why they even call it a "risk" considering how they're essentially taking a huge leap in making good/bad story decisions. The question isn't whether they took the risk but rather if they even landed well enough to justify them.

I don't hate it because it tried something different
I hate it because it failed at everything it tried

tfa got torn apart for being a rehash of anh

tlj got torn apart for making terrible story and character decisions

yes, if you take risks they always pay, thats why theyre called risks

>it's another "le 80s retro synthwave epic neon literal who posting his opinions no one cares about on Twitter" episode

Star Wars is obviously never gonna be a decent movie series ever again, the standards have been lowered.
Now the only reason to watch them is get what you want. And nobody wanted to see Luke get treated like a bitch, while Leia defies death in the same movie.

>TFA
>played it safe
>people got mad because it played it too safe by basically remaking ANH such that it didn't really come out as its own

>TLJ
>took risks
>people got mad because the risks it took, such as completely changing the mentality of one of the most well-known sci-fi heroes of all time to the point of him no longer behing himself as well as the plot being a complete mess, resulted in it being shit

Conclusion:

>mfw Disney only deals in absolutes

Females think like children so they don’t understand why men don’t like omnipotent heroes and weak, goofy villains. Soy Wars is basically Power Rangers at this point.

No. Taking risks don't automatically make your movie good. If they did, it wouldn't be called "taking risks." They took risks, gambled, and lost.

I think the third film is fucked now. But as an user mentioned the other day in one of these threads, it's probably not a 'trilogy' anymore. How many years after Ep9 will Disney wait before they start their next 'trilogy'? They've probably got Rey vs Villain of the Week movies lined up for the next decade.

>sci-fi
Star Wars is fantasy you dumb weeb

Luke's entire arc, not keeping Snoke as Darth Sidious 2.0, not having a dumb plottwist on Reys parents.

He's retarded
Check his other responses in the feed for that twitter post

Risk? What risk?
Risk is having Rey join Kylo at the end.
Risk is showing that none of the MC have plot armor.
The only "risk" they took is kill Snoke and shitting on Luke.

My main issue with TLJ is that it took everything about TFA that I actually found engaging and shits on it for no real reason other than to be subversive for the sake of it. It was terribly written, half of it was totally pointless and Finn being sent off on a stupid sidequest that has no consequence other than getting him a love interest was an awful misuse of his character.

I'm not even a big Star Wars guy and I knew it sucked.

The ONE risk it took was ruining everything that Star Wars stood for.

Rian is already lined up to star another trilogy after IX.
Daisy said she wont be playing Rey again after IX though.

Maybe Rey actually fucking loses in IX and we have a trilogy for Kylo's redemption arc.

Regardless, the point still stands. Just because it took risks while TFA didn't, doesn't make it automatically good and free from being criticised.

Oh my God I hate this argument so much. I read this exact same "first you said it was too cold now that it is too hot!" shit about 200 times just yesterday.

This is the most idiotic shit ever.

>Luke's entire arc
A nonsensical decision that made no sense in the context of the character.
>not keeping Snoke as Darth Sidious 2.0
This one is a risk, but a stupid one. It just leaves everyone feeling short changed. When you kill him off like that without any explanation, or even suggestion, of who he was, he become nothing more than a gimmick.
>not having a dumb plottwist on Reys parents.
Another case of people being shortchanged. It's not entirely Rian's fault as Abrams was the one to set it up. But the mystery surrounding Rey parentage was a big part of the narrative thrust. Now it just feels like a cheap ploy.

>My main issue with TLJ is that it took everything about TFA that I actually found engaging and shits on it for no real reason other than to be subversive for the sake of it
This. TFA introduced new interesting ideas despite being a rehash, so for TLJ to somehow outright ignore or shit on them felt like it didn't know what else to do with them other than try to subvert audience expectations.

>Finn being sent off on a stupid sidequest that has no consequence other than getting him a love interest was an awful misuse of his character.
This. Finn isn't even my favorite character but the fact that he was originally one of the three main characters TFA established and he's suddenly relegated to a sidestory subplot, it feels like the writer didn't know what the fuck to do with him and just shoved him out of the way.

>Villain of the Week
This has been the biggest problem with all the Marvel films I've watched - villain is introduced, unimportant people and cities are destroyed, some doomsday weapon is threatened, villain is defeated in CGI orgasm in the last 20 minutes of the film. It's incredibly boring. TFA sort of did it with the Starkiller base, which was introduced and destroyed within 40 minutes after killing 30 billion nobodies that nobody grieves over. I thought Snoke and Kylo might at least be interesting long term characters, but I guess maybe only Kylo now. Who gives a shit.

>Force Awakens
>marketed as a new story, turned out to be a remake
>also Luke wasn't in it, was just used to market the movie

>Last Jedi
>completely changed Luke's character and betrays everything the original trilogy stood for

taking risks per se it's to be encouraged.

but tlj is a rehash, the only risk it took was making luke all jaded and cynical and pathetic.

>I thought Snoke and Kylo might at least be interesting long term characters, but I guess maybe only Kylo now. Who gives a shit.
It comes across as a lack of commitment to the characters you established. If say, Snoke had a bigger role and enough context/backstory behind him in TFA, then his death in the TLJ would have felt more justified. As it is, he was treated more like a cheap plot device and somehow we were meant to be shocked that Kylo Ren kills him when we barely even knew who was to give a shit about it. There's no tension surrounding his death beyond the audience realizing how the writers screwed themselves over.

The issue with the latter two is that TFA built them both up as having potential meaning and mystery to them, and for the payoff to be "lmao it's nothing HAHA GOTCHA" is bullshit writing. This is what happens when you let Abrams do his mystery box shit and then have another writer and director try and "fix" it.

he's some faggot from ign.

But that's so brave and unexpected! Rian is a hero!

it should've made more. That's underperforming.

>Fuck Luke
>Fuck Leia
>Fuck Han
>Fuck Chewie
>Fuck Lando
>Fuck Ackbar
>Fuck Wedge
>Fuck R2 and Threepio

I love how TLJ defense force thinks this is why people didn't like it.
It's boring and they killed Luke, the prequels were better and I fucking hate the prequels

>fans tore apart TFA

Love this meme.

Except he changed before anything huge happened in his life.

Daisy will be saying she won't play Rey again because she'll want a massive new contract to return. There's no way her and Boyega or earning much from these current movies, having been plucked from obscurity. She'll have negotiating power after this trilogy is done.

TFA got what it did because of some retarded Honeymoon phase when the months passed, they started to abhor it.

Something something people only hate it cause it was different than what they expected XD

Sure, but that's because TFA isn't immediately offensive like TLJ is. Han died, but he still acted like Han for the most part.

I think as poorly as TLJ was received it will get worse as time passes. A lot of fans were blinded by seeing Luke for the first time in 40 years and the admittedly good effects and cinematography in theaters.

underrated.

Chewie did fucking nothing for the entire movie other than be a comedy prop for the Porgs. You'd think he'd be hanging out with Luke and Rey or something.

"""""critics"""""" are on full damage control now after being exposed.

Wait until IX. They're gonna bring back Lando so they can kill him and Chewie off. Also, expect the Falcon to share the fate of Anakin's lightsaber.

I've never been a star wars fan, my favorite is phantom menace. what killed TFA for me was the fact that it was a not so hard to see imitation of the first saga and that it was filled with outside statements about the characters and their personalities.

since I like to watch movies that are actual movies and not shitty liberal statements, and since when I watch a movie I'd like for it to be a new concept. this movie failed in both aspects.

I didn't go to see the second one because it is based on the first one. fuck it.

The realisation that TFA was kinda bad only came later for most people, when they had a few weeks to think about it and for the hype over "new star wars woooo" to die down.

Fucking this.
who the fuck was snoke?
He might as well have just been called 'Supreme leader bad guy'
He's just the bigger emperor to go with the bigger death star and bigger luke. so fucking lazy

>IGN employee on Disney's payroll gives it a 9.7
>Ex IGN employees who own a small business hated it and echo Sup Forums criticisms despite being largely soy themselves

*thinking*

I don't necessarily mind the idea getting rid of old facets of the OT or PT and replacing it with new stuff - new trilogy, new generation, sure whatever. The problem to me is that there's nothing worthy of replacing any of it from the new sequels right now. Rey is nowhere near as endearing as Luke, Finn has a one-sided rivalry with a useless silver stormtrooper and is used as a plot device for knowing how First Order machinery works, and Poe is Han with like half as much charisma.

The things is you can simultaneously take risks and have them be stupid ideas.

Exactly! The SJWs love the movie because they are fucking retarded. TFA didn't play it safe, it was ANH with no story and all action. Rogue One took more risks. It killed everything.

>i'll just buy bonds to play it safe
>wtf i could have made more by trading in risky stock???
>now that this stock has a bunch of risk im sure to make tons of money
>wtf the stocks fell through and i made a loss???
i hope this twitter nobody isn't an investor

It still has to be good, you raging faggot.
And copying something wholesale is cynical, not "safe".

TFA radiates cynical hackwork.
TLJ radiates "Fuck Star Wars".

Both running on the oft-bean-spilt sentiment in Hollywood regarding genre fan bases:
"What do you care? You'll see it anyway."

Seen with STD and Ghostbusters most recently.
A running theme with Jabrams work.

>took risks
>the risk of not advancing the plot at all

>haha there's only one or the other, no unbeaten haha

Eh. They can pull whole planet-sized guns out of their asses, which in turn proceed to be annihilated like flies on a windshield.

There really aren't any stakes anymore.

Checkmark means it's someone. You don't have a checkmark. You are no-one. Checkmark means it's word of god. You don't have a checkmark. You don't matter. You are expendable. You agree with the checkmark. Agree with the checkmark and one day you will get a checkmark. Do not agree with the checkmark and you will not have a checkmark. You will never be anyone. You will always be nobody. Checkmark is the word of god. Worship god. Worship the checkmark. Stop thinking and comply.

Chewie was meat-shamed.

What they did with Leia was pretty risky.

Do we have to kill/destroy every minor character/setpiece from the OT? Couldn't Lando's fate just be left up to the viewer?
Why does it feel like this whole trilogy is just a transition to the next one?

There's a difference between doing something different and taking risks. We wanted something different. We didn't want them to completely fuck up the fundamentals of Luke character.

>It's not shitty! It's just risky!

Is there a more pathetic argument floating around trying to defend this turd?

Risky for my sides.

>taking risks automatically means it's good!
You fucking wut m8?

>we either handle the characters from the original trilogy terribly or we copy the plot entirely from one of the old movies, take your pick.

its a strawman so no

>it's stylistically designed to be that way, and you can't undo that, but we can diminish the effects of it...