Do retcons ruin the lore experience for you, or are you indifferent towards them?

Do retcons ruin the lore experience for you, or are you indifferent towards them?

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Literally me

Its part of why i stopped loving starwars so much, yeah

They can hurt an experience for me but they don't ruin it usually.

For example in LoK the explanation they give for the origins of bending is really stupid and kind of ruins the lore from the original series. It didn't hurt my ability to enjoy the original though.

That's not a retcon though

As someone that got into Star Wars really late, was the EU really as good as people say?

>as good as people say
yes

The lore about the aliens was better then any of the films

I miss ysalamiri.
Are they still canon?

There was some really good stuff, and then there was some really bad stuff. Ultimately throwing everything out was the only decision they could've made.

I do 40k and D&D.
You don't know shit about retcons, son.

No.

Alot of things were cool

alot of things werent

>I would take that solo kid in a fight totally

Oh Kyle

Alot of clone trooper lore/Republic Commando/Mandolorian lore was written by a fangirl


>Jedi are evil
>Mandos dindu nuffin
>my vibroblade folded a trillion times

This. It had so much contradictory shit on Jedi alone, they could never harmonise that into anything for their movies without ruining their ability to act in the interest of plot.
The prequels also fucked up spectacularly in that regard, making Jedi simultaneously a giant state church, an elite diplomatic organisation, humble warrior monks, military commanders...
And thirty years later they are forgotten?
A myth?
The fucked their own canon so royally by trying to make Jedi every bullshit fanfic wet dream from the EU at once, you couldn't even make them work within the movies if you start to ask questions.
They work as secretive orders, but the second you try to make Jedi and Sith something like armies, they just fall apart.
It was important to curb their numbers and direct influence.

I still think kyles way of being a jedi is the true way to being one

but Kyle was just

>Fuck you I wanna use lightning
>but kyle you cant
>what if I use lightning while not acting like a dick
>but kyle the force its a way of life
>Really I just used the force this morning to get myself breakfast shits super useful you know
>Also I am gonna my apprentice this way of the force too

Why did the cannon continue firing after the control window was supposedly taken out. If shooting a rocket at it did nothing, why do it?
Why did they scale the building afterwards, just to pose?

Don't you mean: Bendu nuffin'

>6 month old clone trooper beating a jedi to death

>And thirty years later they are forgotten?
>A myth?
I've never got this complaint. There were 10,000 Jedi in a galaxy of trillions of people. Most people had probably never even heard of a Jedi, let alone seen one.

The main problem was that the EU was absolutely fucking massive, so of course you had really shitty bits mixed in with really good bits.

When they retconned the entire EU they got rid of both.

Which is now exactly what Luke does because he was the first to figure they tried to balance scales on one side only for millennia.
Because they were fighting the base principles of the very force they professed to serve.
Which has odd implications in practice, I guess.
Do they need to be assholes half the time, or do they only become kind of jerks that don't help people because it creates evil people?

Depends on how it's handled.

You see Genndy's Clone Wars? The 2004 cartoon series with the Jedi killer Grievous and Arc Troopers operating operationally?

Yup, not canon anymore.

They're most egregious when the creator uses retcons as a way to build up controversy for the next game at the expense of the actual story, instead of making a good standalone game.

How can they be a myth if it's all over the holonet about Jedi General this freed that world from these separatist droids. They might not know the details of what jedi can and can't do but the whole jedi are myth thing just seems insanely stupid. Palpatine actually stands in front of the galactic senate and says the jedi rebellion against the republic has been crushed. Are we honestly meant to believe no one outside the fucking senate building knows about jedi, that the entire galaxy suffers collective amnesia if something happened more than two decades ago?

They were having giant influence, had temples, influenced the Senate.
They would be recruiting people all the time.
And they led units in the war. Very publicly so. They were on every military register as officers.
They spoke before the political elite.
There was no doubt about their power, let alone existence.
It would be much easier to malign them, like the Illuminati.

It's clear that there is SOME vague awareness about the Jedi in parts of the galaxy.

But not everyone is going to be aware of who the Jedi were or the role they played in the Clone Wars after the Empire came to power and started exerting massive control over the flow of information.

Take Luke for example - he's growing up on a fucking moisture farm on a shitty Outer Rim planet. The fuck is he gonna know about wars and jedi apart from myths and stories from travelers?

It's only been a generation since then. The veterans of local forces and affected planets are all still around.
Luke's family would have witnessed the political situation, the war, the rise of the Empire.
Luke might be a bumbling fool of a redneck, but others would be keenly aware of what went on and how all talk of Jedi suddenly ceased.

>myths and stories
See that's the problem we're talking a couple of decades. My grandfather died a couple of decades ago, it doesn't make him a mysterious mythical being. The entire idea of making 20 years ago shrouded in myth, regardless of imperial propaganda which is a feeble cop out story wise, is as farcical as declaring yesterdays breakfast a saga from ancient days.

Have you heard of that fabled group, the Jackson Five?
The bards sing us tales of their ancient exploits!

That happens still in TCW 2008

Well happened

>CG wars
>good

>CG wars
>bad

Did I stumble into 2008?

CG Clone wars is super good man

>its not muh action packed Genndy wars so its bad!

This. Modern documentation and mass media ensure that memories stay fresh and even in ancient times word of mouth would retain enough to convince children that their fathers met a Jedi once, or saw one hold a speech before the Senate.
The effort needed to suppress deeply rooted knowledge like that of Jedi being a thing two decades ago would be immens.

You know, I've never seen anything in either version of the Clone Wars TV shows that conflict with each other continuity wise.

Just watch the original one into volume 2 and stop right before the rainy planet, then go through the CG cartoon in chronological order, then go back to the 2D one and watch from the rainy planet to the end.

Nothing contradicts anything and makes RotS a better viewing experience.

This. There are some retcons that fuck up shit.

Genndy Wars killed a jedi with an on going comic series

Most of post ROTJ was really fan fiction shit, alot of force sensitive people that didnt need it including r5, sheev being clone, suncrusher, etc outside of Thrawn and Mara Jade stuff
But pre ANH was pretty great with the KOTOR lore and Gennedy Clone wars

Gennedy clone wars, mara jade, and Revan would be the three things that id want back like most people because that shit was actually well written

Comic series is neither of the animated series, which is what I was talking about.

Retconning is a two-way street. The lore experience can be improved by retconning poorly-executed or otherwise bad plot points. This is exemplified by the current explanation of lightsaber crystals in nu-canon Star Wars, which I have come to view as an overall better addition to the lore than how they were previously handled.

Conversely, retconning ineresting or well-executed plot points can degrade the lore experiance, though this can be mitigated by replacing the defunct plot line with one of equal or greater value. For example, I'm salty that Gendywars and all the Clone Wars-era lore we got from it was reconned, but I'm glad we got TCW in its place.

Here's the thing about Traviss, I think she could be a decent writer of she just pulled her head out of her ass. She seems capable of writing original characters and giving them depths, and I like her prose style, but when it comes to already established characters she instead opts to ignore continuity and just write whatever she wants. Her Halo novels suffer from the same issues.

>Halsey is an arrogant sociopath with the temperment of a spoiled child, and not the brilliant,yet conflicted and massively guilt ridden old mother figure that Nylund wrote her as
>Mendez is somehow ashamed of participating in the SPARTAN program, even though in all previous books he took great pride in having trained humanity's greatest soldiers
>SPARTANS are autistic spoiled children with fancy armor and enhancements, instead of highly disciplined yet still human super-soldiers
>ONI somehow having the gall to sit in judgment of Halsey's actions, even though they were the ones who okay'd everything in the SPARTAN II program, and even started an arguably even more morally repulsive third program

Doesn't mean they can't pick the good parts out and adapt them. The Thrawn we got in Rebels and the new Timothy Zahn novel is arguably just as good a character as in his original Thrawn trilogy.

>the Jedi killer Grievous
>not canon anymore
damn

good. That series always overrated

It's not as good, but it does eventually become good.

WAY indifferent.

I can't imagine living in a way where every damn little detail "he picked up a penny so it's CANON" defines my entertainment.

Eh, don't worry about it. Some of it's good.
Like Gennedy's Cartoon.

And then we have Palaptine's secret Three-Eyed son Triclops which actually was a fucking thing that fucking happened.
And his doppleganger tried to marry a Leia robot before she blew up and killed him.

There's a LOT of stupid out there and a lot of one-up manship when it came to writing.

I.E.:
Starcrushers, etc

>Let me tell you about retcons

Rope yourself my dude.

They don't immediately ruin the experience, but they start to diminish the work.

For example, I got into buying DC books because of Darkest Night and started to lose my childhood interest in Marvel. But then the New 52 came, and I had mixed feelings but was excited.

Come a shitload of retcons, canceled half starts, and constant multi-book event crossovers and my interest is fading. I started buying more Marvel books, but then that was hit by massive shit events and reboots.

Cue even more reboots, and now I give zero fucks about cape comics anymore. I don't hate them, but most of my passion is gone and I just don't care anymore.

I feel the same about Warhammer, and increasingly Star Wars.

Its reboot/retcon fatigue, when the continuity no longer matches what got you into it. As a kid I was thrilled for Shadows Of The Empire, the bounty hunters, and Dark Forces. Now I look at Rogue One and Rebels and am starting to not care if I ever see it at all. I still am watching, but the further from my comtinuity it gets the less interest I have. Seeing things I loved like Thrawn and TIE Defenders was great, and if I see Darktroopers and Kyle I will be into it. But right now, looking at the solo Solo movie, I just keep feeling very little affection or excitement.

The Gears novel Aspho Fields was alright to me. I don't know about the other novels she wrote for Gears.

Then again GoW1 was literally "We'll name drop something and expand on it later."

Cute Shaak Ti isn't canon any more, either.

Thanks for squandering Genndy's work there, Lucas.

Shaak Ti is a shit tier jedi and the definition of useless waifu bait bullshit

>bathrobe

That bothers me more than it should

>Obi Wan and Yoda wear drab brown robes because they are in hiding since there "aren't" any more Jedi

>LOL NAW THAT'S WHAT ALL JEDI ALWAYS WEAR

T.Fives

youtube.com/watch?v=z6afF2bASCs

>Could have prevented order 66
>Shaak Ti acted like a dumbshit

I am happy she dies 5 times now

>How can they be a myth if it's all over the holonet
If you speak about jedi you end up in space gulag with your friends and family

commies have proven that you can brainwash entire peoples given enough sadistic brute force and dedication

>Palaptine's secret Three-Eyed son Triclops
this was a book made for 2nd graders user, it is nothing like the normal eu books

>Modern documentation and mass media ensure that memories stay fresh
but they can be as well used to imprint false memories into your mind especially if space KGB gets rid of evidence of what really happened

>kotor
>great lore
Technology is exactly the same for how many thousands of years? That was nothing more than Bioware using the official license to retell the OT with their wheelhouse of tropes thrown in. Kotor 1 is creatively bankrupt. 2 was worse.

>Genndy's cartoon
>good

Thing is, the Empire has a small presence in most of the galaxy. They show up in force when shit goes down, but have less than no power anywhere Hutts are and Vader isn't.

Russia was, and no offense to the reddies here, still very primitive pre-Soviet. They were easy to control because swathes of Russia was basically Napoleonic, and had no radio or electricity.

>I don't hate them, but most of my passion is gone and I just don't care anymore
>I feel the same about Warhammer, and increasingly Star Wars
Oh. I can see why now.

Same problem with the prequels though. Tech gets worse within thirty years.

Don't you know? Uncle Owen was a Jedi.

How do you figure?

>no radio or electricity
you see user mass media make you more susceptive to manipulation and propaganda not less
that's why commies all around the world made sure that not only everybody can read and write but also has acces to tv or radio

even modern means of thought transport like the internet are being used to spread lies ever more efficiently

and you don't need to have a strong presence all it takes is a couple of smart and dedicated operatives and a threat of violence

t. ex-commie block country

Why are half these titles just a character's name
How fucking lazy can you get
You think we wouldn't know what the book is about? You can't just slap Thrawn or Ahsoka on the cover cause DisnEU Star Wars fans are too stupid to figure out what it'll be about from just that?

As long as they make things cooler or more interesting from my point of view

They should have retcon Endor into being Kashyyyk because Ewoks defeating the the most elite storm troopers of the Empire is still one of the stupidest moments in cinematic history.

see