Father, I know you're a psychotic mass murderer that has done unspeakable things and you've killed millions...

>Father, I know you're a psychotic mass murderer that has done unspeakable things and you've killed millions, but there's still good in you. I know it.

>Better fuckin kill this Ben kid though

> Emperor, even though you have killed billions and are literally a living vessel for evil.. I refuse to strike you down
> Oh man my nephew is going through some dark thoughts better kill him is his sleep

it's called character development, retard

dont believe kylos lies

That's not "character development" because nothing happens to justify the change. It's character regression. Luke was never a character meant to be used outside of his respective trilogy.

>MaRey Sue: YOU SAW THE LIGHT IN VADER. WHY NOT BEN?
>NuLuke: YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND. HE HAS SUPER DARKNESS AND SKYWALKER BLOOD!!!!!

He was afraid Kylo could become so strong that no one would be able to stop him. The thought of killing him was something that happened in a split second and he immediately realized it was wrong. He explained he didn't go into the room with the intention of killing him, he just wanted to confront him.

Lots of bad things in the movie but this isn't one of them at all, Luke just had a moment where of weakness and Jedi or not he's still human. Fuck this is why he doesn't want to train any more Jedis they always end up becoming arrogant dicks who think they are incorruptible and above all.

Because Luke wasn't a Gary Stu right?

>First I was a character who saw only the darkness in Vader and tried to kill him, but eventually realized the potential of light in all things
>Then I forgot about that and went back to the first thing

Yeah, like I'm 'progressing' every time I drive ten inches and then slam on the reverse. I'm going somewhere so it must be a good change!

>You gotta kill all the younglings, son. Do it for your old man. It's not that terrible.

> people always improve no matter what no matter the circumstances there better than they were yesterday.
Thats what you're arguing here

Luke hates violence, he didn't even want to cut Wompa's hand.
TLJ did complete 180° on Luke just to ruin our childhood hero.

Yeah development into a worse character that as no basis in the character

he was just showing off his cool new lightsaber

>I'm going to save the princess!
>OH FUCK EVERYTHING WENT WRONG

>My friend is here to give context of the fact I used to be a great pilot back on Tatooine, but even then a bunch of other pilots do great too
>SAVE ME HAN!

>Okay, so now I'm getting better at the force and I can beat snow-bigfoot-
>SAVE ME HAN, AGAIN

>Ow, this little green thing is kicking my ass-
>YODA GIMME MY X-WING.

>No, Vader, I will save my friends-
>SAVE ME LEIA

>Movie 3
>Actually does cool shit

If you have to wait THREE MOVIES to be good as a fighter and also wise, you're not a Mary Sue.

You're an actual character.

that is literally the opposite of character development

even in movie 3, AAAAH SAVE ME DAD

>Character does the opposite of what he developed into
>Thats development!!!

That's a brain tumor

Actually it's the opposite. It's character regression.

BAHAHAAHAH

You don't think being a lonely permavirgin for thirty years might turn him into an asshole?

Listen, I can buy Luke having a momentary lapse in judgement and igniting his lightsaber. I can even buy him losing faith in the Jedi as a whole and deciding to just let their legacy end.

What I can't buy is Luke not trying to set things right between him and Ben and kill Snoke, whoever he is. I can't buy him cowarding out and leaving the entire galaxy to be ruled by the First Order. That's not Luke. Luke would never abandon his friends and family to go sulk on an island and milk sea sloths.

What circumstances turned Luke into someone who murders kids in their sleep then?

Just say mary sue you reddit faggot

Somebody post that edit of Kylo v Luke with the Naruto music please. Or Superflight with the MoS music+monologue

Jesus fuck no. Do you even know what that word means? Luke got his ass kicked in every movie. First by those cantina weirdos and a training droid, then by a Wampa and Vader, then by the Emperor. Even Anakin in the 2nd and 3rd movies wasn't a Stu because he'd trained for a decade to become a Jedi. MaRey Sue is inexplicably good at everything and everyone loves her. She goes through no character arc nor experiences any kind of growth, or struggles with anything. She is the definition of Mary Sue.

does Luke Skywalker post on reddit?

>Luke just had a moment where of weakness and Jedi or not he's still human
Great. So why'd he run away to die on an island like a pussy instead of go after Ben himself?

see

>naive boy
>hardened old man willing to sacrifice

its been 40 years of course hes changed, and now hes a realistic character

>Or Superflight with the MoS music+monologue
This one. The kikes on jewtube shut it down before I could have a laugh

It's not development though it's called a character re-write and such things only take place when the new writers either have an agenda and want to use the character as the avatar of it, or are too inept to develop the character properly and in this case Luke suffered both. There is nothing in the movies that justify such an extreme change in both personality and ideals and it speaks volumes about Disney's complete lack of creative talent.

>that is literally the opposite of character development

So youve never had a cocaine relapse? I hate how even our movie tropes shame natural human pitfalls.

That's actually reverting in character.

>now hes a realistic character

>he just wanted to confront him.

And then he didn't.

Even though he did exactly that in the last movie, with wwwaaaayyyy more dangerous people. You're using a 'momentary lapse' to try to justify 30 years of a fuckup that contradicts every single thing he did in the series people liked.

But yeah no if he'd done that Rey wouldn't have had anything to do and we can't have that is' REY the one who inexplicably didn't even lose this time so we have no reason to be worried in the next movie.

Its because he was a white male hero the sjws couldnt resist taking that away from us

Except is not.
The character development is taken for granted in this movie: it supposedly already happened, and this movie is after the fact.

Cold corporate, pr focus-group mindset plus screenwriting tackiness.

>comparing an addiction to a change of personality
>reddit spacing
im done here

But he hadn't been a lonely hermit by the time he wasn't attempting to kill Ben. Being a hermit came after...

Try again retards.

>So youve never had a cocaine relapse? And then gave up for the rest of your life even though everything you did before that was charging headfirst to try to make the situation better and then walling off the friends you've made even though you were willing to die for them a bit ago?

I'm not saying it's not realistic that someone like you would lose once and give up forever after doing the opposite, I'm just saying we'd understand if it happened to YOU.

>any random change in character is "character development"

Is this what they teach in American schools?

By the time he was*

> character development
Perhaps if you are implying the character is going senile

>If I stood next to your bed with a knife above your chest, that's because I just want to casually do it and not intend to kill you? Think about that for a bit. Even if I don't commit to the action, I still intended to stand above you in your sleep to fucking murder you physically.

I saw another poster comment on this last night, saying that "If he was that crazy, he was probably going crazy for a while. He was probably in his room thinking about it."

That was not the case. The movie shows us that Luke did not go into Kylo's room to murder him. He was looking inside of him, to assess the depths of his darkness. That was his original intention; reflection. It was only after he saw how genuinely fucked up Kylo's future was that he reacted harshly. Luke himself explains that almost immediately after igniting his lightsaber, he was repulsed.

He was not contemplating murdering Kylo for a long time. It was an impulse. It was a very Anakin-like impulse, and this is Luke Skywalker. This is not the first time he's had the same urges as his father. This was something touched upon in his training on Dagobah.

The difference is, in the past, he's transcended those urges instead of succumbing to them. Like when he went berserk in RotJ for example. Again, Luke says it himself.

>"In a moment of pure instinct, I ..."

The difference is, the stakes were reversed here. Luke wasn't young anymore. He wasn't a "farm boy". He was a grown man. That's why the consequences of fucking up like that hurt so badly. His mistake caused nigh-irreparable damage to a young child.

>Luke conquered and learnt from his fears long ago.

People are fallible, and weak. They make mistakes.

The point The Last Jedi was trying to make in regard to Luke is that Luke is a person too. You don't just suddenly stop making mistakes or come into all the answers in life because of you've conquered one hurdle. That's not how life works.

Luke killed over a million people on the death star though

Star Wars IV: 2/10

Star Wars V: 3/10

Star Wars VI: 1/10

Star Wars I: 1/10

Star Wars II: 2/10

Star Wars III: 2/10

Star Wars VII: 1/10

Star Wars VIII: 1/10

Some ideas of this series had potential if didn't decide to market it towards children/young adults.

It is a shame so many adults take the lore seriously though..........

No, this is called character assassination.

Running up on your old man and his boss is different than dealing with a child. A child that isn't your own. A child that was entrusted to you. If you say something or do something wrong you could cause them irreparable harm, which is inevitably what Luke did, but you can see why he didn't jump into the confrontation immediately. Adults are people too, and often more wary of their actions than children because they understand consequence.

What's your 10/10 movie?

>2 above anything
You have a worse opinion than people who give tfa a 10.

RAN

No, what you're arguing isn't fully wrong (although luke seemingly learned better when he was younger), nothing was fucking shown, off screen bullshit to justify the change. Character regression isn't good writing, luke could've turned into goddamn anything and you would argue it as sensible which its not

Disney will never be canon
Luke will forever remain EU Luke for me
FUCK THE MOUSE

Okay shithead. Then why does he just give up and let things get exponentially worse? Why does he write off Kylo as irredeemable but Rey can find
"the conflict" inside him without any trouble?

It still makes no sense. Luke fucks up, okay, I accept that. But then he just runs away to some godforsaken island and leaves the galaxy to its fate?

And again, you completely miss the point that this-

>People are fallible, and weak. They make mistakes.

Is a bullshit justification to explain why Luke, the guy who charged in to save a princess, fight a Death Star, run out into the snow to stop a probe droid, fought Vader just because his friends were in danger despite how little chance he had, risked his life to save Han from Jabba, then walked in willingly to face both the Emperor and Vader alone just so he could do all he could to save his father.

THAT GUY had a moment of weakness once, fine, we could buy that.

THAT GUY then gave up forever and never once tried to make mistakes? And this is him being 'human? No. This is him being a character written like shit by an idiot and someone who doesn't understand the basics of character, period.

Glad to see there's someone else who would defend this mess of a film, but what else can we expect of you?

You're fallible and weak, and you need this movie not to be so, so bad.

No it isn't

Except the lapse in judgement happened 10-15 years after ROTJ

>everything was off screen
that isn't good writing

Kladivo na čarodějnice.

I just want to chime in to tell you how stupid you are.

>blaming SJWs for TLJ's faults

fuck no. I can see Rose really pissing some feminists off hardcore and them being disappointed by a huge waste of Laura Dern.

Ah yes, the most noble and competent man in the universe develops into a paranoid weakling. What a great story.

>he just wanted to confront him
>bringing a lightsaber
its a prank bro!

>Luke is a person too

Yeah, and he always was. It's baffling to me how there are people on this board who don't think there's a middle ground between flawless paragon of virtue and friend-abandoning nephewcidal curmudgeon.

>but you can see why he didn't jump into the confrontation immediately.

Or ever, until Rey came down decades later.

>Adults are people too, and often more wary of their actions than children because they understand consequence.

Hmmm, this guy is so entrenched with the dark side and I see evil in his future to the point I'd instinctively activate my lightsaber. Welp, I'm weary of the consequences of talking to him, but not of the whole 'let super evil Snoke who I know about run all over the galaxy' thing.

There's just no way to spin this into anything other than shitty writing by shittier people.

This, Luke in TLJ properly follows the heroes journey. He suffers challenges and temptations with dealing with Ben Solo being pulled towards the dark side, and contemplates for one second killing him, to prevent a Vader 2.0. The island he is stuck on is the abyss until Rey and visit from Yoda spark his rebirth and atonement for past mistakes. He then makes his return and sacrifices himself by using all his energy to create the distraction that allows the remaining resistance to escape.

Retard. Go rematch the movie

hahah

Based

Wait fucking what? Luke already had his hero's journey you retard. He didn't need another one. He was a complete character. He was supposed to become the mentor for a new generation. That was the entire point of bringing him back.

>properly follows the hero's journey
>everything now isn't nearly as urgent or dangerous as last time
>he regresses off screen
you guys are reaching

Holy fuck you absolute brainlet, it seems the nice little picture I included wasnt enough to show you that the hero's journey is a never ending cycle. This is good story telling having ur characters go through trials and tribulations that change them but they always eventually return. This is better the having a stagnant "omni-benevolent" protagonist remain the same for ever. Star wars fanboys are salty because this movie had Luke not being the perfect little boy he was during the original trilogy where his only "mistake" was trying to take on Vader before he was ready.

>(You)ing bait this obvious

Come on now.

I've never actually thought about this but why is the darkside bad and the light good exactly?

Both want to rule the galaxy, and both have killed millions to do it.

Beyond that, WHY are either side good or bad?

No because I'm not Carrie Fisher

thats a conflict in the movie I guess, too bad it goes nowhere for both Luke and Kylo

That's a low blow.
Although there's no blow low enough that Carrie wouldn't snort.

>he regresses off screen
What's wrong with this. Its a very commonly used in good story telling. For instance in another series which follows the hero's jorney well, Nolan's TDK trilogy, Batman regresses inbetween TDK and TDKR. In TDKR is quite literally goes into the abyss where he has his death a rebirth where he escapes the pit and returns to gotham and is able to defeat bane. In the end he "sacrifices" himself to save gotham (he really should have died, the autopilot thing was retarded)

>Beyond that, WHY are either side good or bad?
That's what Rey would figure out in the next movie.

Oh fuck off. It's supposed to end, asshole. That's why it's a journey: it has a beginning and a destination.

>good writing
it isn't, it's lazy and anything is justifiable if you don't have to show it
>nolan's tdk trilogy
oh shit i fell for bait again

This is a conflict shown in the movie and part of the reason why Luke was shitting on the Jedi for their hubris and arrogance and thought the order should end. Of course this angered fanboys cause "muh jedi is always the good guys" emotional reaction.

it isn't shown, it's talked about. bad writing

This, Anakin killing younglings in RotS was over the top but it was built up much better than Luke's """"""temptation""""" in this movie

>it isn't, it's lazy and anything is justifiable if you don't have to show it
No what would be lazy is to keep luke as the exact same character he was and have him come back to defeat le ebin evil bad guys whom he had nothing to do with them being evil.

Problem Child 2

no, regression between TDK and Big Guys on a Plane was a direct consequence of the ending of TDK where Batman became disheartned by events of the movie, especially Harvey Dents actions.
in ROTJ there is nothing that justifies Luke turning into a kinslayer all of a sudden. on the contrary, Luke learned in that movie that there is good in everyone when he managed to turn his father into the light

Or maybe, get this, Luke's story wasn't meant to have a cashgrab sequel!

>I've never actually thought about this but why is the darkside bad and the light good exactly?

What did Yoda say in Empire?

Better writing then completely ignoring any flaws with the jedi and just delivering more fan service with Rey and luke restoring the Jedi and going back to fight le evil sith who are bad because theyre bad.

REEEEEEEEEEEE

this is basically a peace offering between warring factions. luke has killed many people at this point too, remember.

This is a valid argument I'd be willing to concede to, the new trilogy probably should have had all these orginal trilogy characters, which were used to draw crowds from nostalgia. But if we are talking about how a new trilogy including Luke should have gone, im very pleased with what they did with his character.

Who says that's the alternative? It's not a binary choice between character assassination of Luke to force an edgy "deconstruction" of the Force, and blatant fanservice. Besides, Luke succeeded where Obi-Wan and Yoda failed by redeeming Vader, implying that he wouldn't fall into the same traps that they did. But then he did, and worse, in the backstory to this movie, so I guess let's just forget all that.

Luke could've failed in a way that made sense for his character, who was too naive and trusting ("your faith in your friends is your weakness,"), not being a paranoid cowardly asshole.

>No what would be lazy is to keep luke as the exact same character he was

Right which is why they should have had him progress even further down the path of virtue and wisdom instead of regress. There's nothing good about just retracting him as a character to drag him through the mud. He hould have moved forward from Jedi instead of back.

They didn't though and thats the whole point of him going away.

>He hould have moved forward from Jedi instead of back.
He did until Kylo Ren.

Stop acting like these two are mutually exclusive, the movie can criticize the heroes as well as be written well.

Exactly.