JJ: Okay Rian, I've established new characters and did the groundwork for the new trilogy...

>JJ: Okay Rian, I've established new characters and did the groundwork for the new trilogy. I played it very safe to avoid a huge fan backlash, all you have to do now is come up with a cool answer to the two major mysteries I set up and address some of my rushed and shitty world building.

>Rian: OR, how about the answers to the mysteries are FUCKING NOTHING and I make the worldbuilding WORSE. Oh and also I'll kill Luke in an even shittier way than you killed Han but leave Leia alive even though she can't be in the next movie. Good luck with episode 9, JJ. >:^)

What is Rian's fucking problem?

I'm glad he shirked all the stupid fan theories about Snoke and Rey's parentage. Having everyone in Star Wars be related to one another is what ruined The Return of the Jedi

he hated TFA so he fucked TLJ in spite.

I agree with you about Rey, but what he did with Snoke is insane. He didn't need to be tied to any known character but he needed some kind of fucking logic in his existence as a character.

>Rian: I want to make Loopers 2, but even if it was a success, noone wants to give me money. So i just use Star Wars as a disguise.

The absolute madman

>two shitty,unproven directors

No thanks

Rey didn't need to be a Skywalker or whatever.
Literally any other explanation is more interesting than "parents are nobodies, she's just some random girl".

Was Palpatine's origin something we knew about in Empire?

He was the Emperor of the Empire, his existence was self-explanatory. Snoke is the Bigger Emperor of the Bigger Empire introduced seven movies in, the situations are completely different.

The point is that she came up from nowhere and still mattered. It's the Jesus origin. It's much more appropriate than coming from a royal bloodline or some shit.

>JJ: Kylo kidnaps and interrogates Rey, kills his dad as she watches in horror, they fight and she's close to killing him after scarring him

Rian: Kylo and Rey have a force bond, she sees him shirtless, they talk about feelings and hold hands, she goes to see him and he kills Snoke when he orders him to kill her, they had each a vision of their future together and they unhappily part ways

Rian is better.

>Snyder does Christ themes and depressing characters
>critics say it's bad
>Disney does Christ themes and depressing characters
>critics say it's good

JJ never expected to have to solve all these puzzles as Colin Trevorrow was going to do it so now he's properly fucked as there's loose ends from TFA and nothing to work off from TLJ

No, but now they explained all the sith are destroyed so Snoke's existence runs counter to what we know previously.

>Name is Ryan
>With an i

Guy was born to be a faggot.

Snyder's movies are derided because they aren't very well made, not because of their Christian allusions

Honestly i dont give a fuck about her being a who or nobody. But then dont try to spin her as someone important. Just better narration, no sugar carrote.
Even in the prequel they wrote it better how anakin was a nobody but with a mysterious origin.
The problem is just, they dont describe her or builded hercharacter well enough so i dont care where she comes from.

Rian is the original name.

JJ completely fucked up TFA and Rian was merciful enough to give us a good demo reel of what his GOAT Star Wars trilogy is going to be like before we have to go back to JJ the Jet Plane land with Episode IX, where Poe will be saved in a daring rescue from a... um... VOLCANO planet in the first act before Rey splits off to find Luke, not realizing he was dead, and has a force ghost sesh with him, Ewan MacGregor (or weird Disney zombie CGI Sir Alec), and the CGI Yoda from TLJ that looks worse than PT Yoda. then Poe, Finn, (Rose too?) will go to a... um... MOUNTAIN planet instead of a forest one so they can destroy a First Order base while meanwhile there's a second Starkiller base getting created by Kylo Ren, whose ultimate nihilism now makes him want to destroy all of le planets but ITS A TRAP xDDD. Rose for some reason will pilot the ship that destroys Starkiller base 2 while Rey resists being seduced to the dark side and converts Ben back so that they can kill Hux together and save le galaxy.

the whole idea of the First Order and the Republic makes no sense and wasn't developed well at all, so might as well have First Order be the New Empire randomly to create some tension for the main characters and avoid having to actually develop the politics of the Star Wars universe (something people HATED when Lucas did it).

the Knights of Ren were a dumb idea that didn't fit in with Kylo Ren's singular journey to be the second coming of his grandfather, and I'm glad that they were retconned as fellow Jedi Academy pupils who were convinced by Kylo that Luke needed to be killed.

Snoke was a dumb character with bad design who was inevitably going to be The Emperor 2 (pure ebil, seduce the young skywalkahhh, etc. etc.) and i'm glad we get to instead have a flawed, complex, and correct about the right thing for the galaxy antagonist in Kylo instead

except we already had a Jesus analogy in Star Wars, ffs Anakin was CONCEIVED BY THE FORCE

His origin was being Emperor. You don't need an explanation for that, it's just what he is. Shadowy super sith man who should be extinct and created a giant evil army out of nowhere needs an explanation.

I think JJ fucked Rian's wife. Its the only thing that makes sense.

How are they badly made? The plot? The character's motivation? By that standard the new Star Wars episodes are badly made too.

you can still get rid of Snoke but at least tell us his backstory. not doing so is just either incompetence or pure laziness.

It's not just about the writing, it's about the scene-to-scene aesthetic and tonal choices he makes. They're tacky films.

Maaaaarthaaaa

The problem with TLJ is simple. It strays too far from the core that made a Star Wars movie a Star Wars movie. Instead we got some Marvel movie with Star Wars characters.

Did Sheev have a backstory in any of the movies? No. That shit belongs in the extended universe novels. Why do so-called SW fans want MCU style shit?

>JJ: Okay now Rian, so Luke is secluded on that island living alone, but he deliberately made an extremely hard to crack map that he put in R2-D2 for someone to find him someday if the situation is extremely urgent

>Rian: Yeah that's cool and all, but wouldn't it be EPIC if he's just an old demented herbit who just tells everyone to fuck off the island so he can die, even though he made the map for someone to find him?

>Kathleen Kennedy: Bravo Rian, throw a purple haired stronk brave woman there somewhere and we'll call it a day.

uhhh you did what the prequels right?

>almost 2018
>brainlets still think this is a real criticism

Jar Jar Abrams ... stop posting on TV ok, its not even funny anymore and we know its you OK, we know.

oh and if you really care about Rey's lineage you're the kind of dumbass making this franchise always color inside the lines. who gives a singular fuck? do you care who Poe's parents are, or Han Solo's, or Anakin's for that matter? this was literally only relevant to Luke Skywalker because it was the central plot twist of the OT. it wouldn't be pottery to repeat that kind of reveal with Rey; it would be stupid.

Rian should have gone further, to be honest. Luke's impulse that the Jedi should end was right, and it's dumb that he was probably forced to keep them around for JJ's shitheap. Kylo Ren is actually subtextually correct — the political regimes of Empire and Republic are clearly interchangeable for the vast majority of people in the galaxy, as evidenced by the effortlessness of political transition between opposing military groups. this is obviously a product of these movies being made for Americans who have small political imaginations but that's neither here nor there. the Sith and the Jedi are both esoteric cultish religions that produce arrogant, hubristic sages with outsize power and no political checks. it would be much better to dissolve both religious traditions of focusing the Force in such a damaging way to Galactic peace and instead focus on diversifying the exploration of what the Force is. fuck, now on the spot i can imagine midichlorians coming back and there being a conflict between secular researchers who are convinced the Force is midis and cultists who insist it isn't. sorry, tangent. my whole point is though that the fanfic gray Jedi thing is a much better approach to this material than making Kylo EXTRA EBIL xD just because he has a political program while Rey continues to be a Mary Sue fighting for a cause that she has no reason to believe in (she was poor under the government of the Republic; why should she care about undoing the new government that destroyed it?)

You dont become a force wizard mary sue by being born from trailer trash you fucking deceiving kike

anakin is the jesus origin in star wars though

>le Snoke is Plagueis
>le Snoke is Mace Windu
>le Snoke is Sheev
>le Snoke is Anakin
fa/tv/irgins forever BTFO by BASED Rian. How will you obese cucks ever recover? Sup Forums soyboys on permanent suicide watch

ok Rian thanks for coming out

>emo superman using kryptonite razers to slice his wrists

>tonal choices he makes. They're tacky films.

Sloth tits, eating porgs, and page turners they were not are all so tasteful.

generation x was a mistake

>haha rian btfo you guys by making awful decisions u mad?

>emo

Is this post from 2011?

Snoke wasn't an important character in the first place. he was a black box representing "dark side of the force" to explain Kylo Ren's seduction. his backstory isn't interesting at all because we have no context for how the political landscape of the universe changed from RotJ to TFA. he was a poorly conceived Emperor flashback in a universe that no longer had an empire. his inclusion and the framing of the First Order as anything but a terrorist organization is why this trilogy is so fucked. i'm glad we just ditched him instead of adding another half hour to this movie to explain how the Republic rose and how Snoke took advantage of their weaknesses. again, if you'd like to see how political actors are shaped and seize power in the Star Wars universe, refer back to the PT and remember how much it sucks to watch since there's no unifying politics for the good guys in these movies (as opposed to Star Trek, where you can play with the Prime Directive all day long. Star Wars just has two factions at all time trying to seize power for what they consider peace even though it's typically monarchs fighting emperors and no one wins in the end on the ground)

what did he mean by this?

>she came up from nowhere and still mattered. It's the Jesus origin.

You do know that one of Jesus' parents was someone important, right? Maybe you've heard of him he's called GOD.

>shitting on TFA to defend TLJ
You Disney employees are absolutely ruthless. Makes sense to demolish a film that has already made money to ensure the next one is successful, though. Good work.

>people actually thought Snoke was going to be a returning character
I would've liked some more backstory on who he is but it's good to see obsessive fanboys BTFO

i get your point and it's well argued. but consider we could take the length of your argument and use the same amount of characters to come up with a motive and backstory of Snoke. So again, was it incompetence or laziness?

>2 years ago

Either the movies always been shit, or someone butchered the shit out of it.

Abrams and Rian are two despicable guys, add to Kennedy's witch and you have the recipe for disaster.

Rian at least understands the basics of lighting and shot composition, and doesn't turn everything into an over-colorized slowmo fest

>Its time to tell you about your parents Clark.
>They were homeless drunks.

Hes a bit slow from all the inbreeding in his j___ culture
please don't bully him

Rian is fucking based. TLJ wasn't a safe flick for nostalgiatards written by a committee like TFA.

The prequels were because people keep nagging Lucas to do it so he did, people dint like it because Lucas taken forever to cave in.

Also the prequels didnt expanded much on Palpatine as he was a Senator of Naboo that we already knew in some part since Obi-Wan talks about Vader and later about Palpatine, you still dont know how he managed to became a Sith, the prequels are about Anakin becoming Vader as well the Fall of the Jedi and the Republic and the Rise of the Empire that we also knew in some part, Obi-Wan said the Empire was created from the Republic, it filled details, left others still open.

First Order is what? ex-Empire? who or what Snoke is and were did he come from? we are left with a conclusion after RotJ and a gap to when TFA were things happens and NOTHING is explained, one thing is ANH thats a new movie and TFA thats a sequel.

Actually it was pretty damn safe. It was just a bad movie.

i hated TFA when it came out. it was and is my least favorite, maybe not quite as bad as AotC. it was completely without substance or originality. while the PT failed to modernize Star Wars well and give it better world-building, it at least had a coherent universe. there's a republic, there are failed institutions that let individuals seize power, those individuals take advantage of other institutions to destroy their opponents, and we see every piece put into place and then executed in RotS.

TFA produced a complete wtf world that made no sense. the Republic was apparently the dominating force in the galaxy if not THE governmental structure in place. but the First Order could still seize the resources necessary to build a massive army and massive Death Star III without being noticed but still being noticed enough that the military wing of the Republic branded itself the Resistance. the Republic was so brittle that destroying one star system completely collapsed it, and the First Order was so popular with the people that they were able to build a new Empire despite what should have been universal condemnation, as well as universal military force against them, since their big superweapon was destroyed by a small band of elite ops agents. none of this at all makes sense. add to that a story about a literal Mary Sue where the only character with an arc is the villain and it gets tiresome. TLJ at least extended Kylo's story in an interesting way, introduced a better philosophy on these governments and religions that's an appropriate response to the complete clusterfuck that the Star Wars universe clearly is as far as who's following whom and why, and gave us some fun scenes that didn't feel ripped out of the OT, even if some of them fucking sucked (Superleia)

>Snyder
>not understanding shot composition

There's a lot of things you can say about the guy but come on.

Redditors being this stupid

It's a subjective assessment, but I think his shots are tacky as fuck. They look like a 16 year old's conception of "cool"

...

i'm sure you could come up with a motive and backstory, but you don't need either. from his actions in this movie, we can tell he was Emperor 2. he wanted to control the galaxy and be the best dark side force wielder (of the moment, of all time, whatever). he was a villain archetype and no amount of backstory of why he got that way would make him interesting. villains with established positions of power and one-dimensional motivations don't make any sense in the real world and aren't interesting to include in a universe that's already had one (with Palpatine in the OT) who had a drawn out backstory that didn't add much to his character, even if it was fun to watch pieces fall into place for some of us (Palpatine in the PT). it's much better now that we have a two-headed beast of a leadership for the First Order, two all-too-human characters in Ben and Hux trying to keep this new political regime together while bickering constantly and not having a clear vision of the future. that lets us see new stories instead of new coats of paint on old ones

>Why does Evil exist?

Because it's necessary and so is in turn Good. Everyone deep down understands this and the OT displayed this. We didn't need a dissertation on why Snoke or the First Order came to be. We just needed maybe 3 sentences. And not doing so just shows how little Rian understood about Star Wars itself.

>lessons in stillness

more like lessons in stillborns

>that lets us see new stories instead of new coats of paint on old ones

See old stories are good and what makes new stories good is that are like the old stories. We're not making a new IPhone here it's fucking art.

Rey is a nobody and a powerful force user but wasnt Anakin the same thing? Being born from a slave nobody mother (not that im trying to defend this abomination of a character, also, correct me if im wrong)

was for

They explained there used to be a Senate before it was deconstructed, Vader talked about the Emperor and how he's unforgiving, and there's a few more things.

but the original Star Wars didn't tell us anything about where the Empire came from. you're contradicting yourself. on the one hand, you say we just know that evil has to exist, and on the other, you're mad that Rian didn't give us an explanation of what made Snoke bad.

this is honestly the worst part of "nerd culture" movies outside of Star Trek is that everyone wants to make it into a fucking comic book where we have a cut to an origin story for every character. we didn't have any exposition for Sheev's origins or Han's or Chewie's or Lando's or Leia's or Akbar's or Mothma's or R2's or 3PO's or.... and when we did get excessive backstory for half those characters, people whined that the magic of Star Wars was lost (the PT)

JJ did nothing wrong

Lmao tru

Anakin was space Jesus and his mother was the space virgin Mary. Rey was the daughter of two drunken hobos.

>le Joseph Campbell
Joseph Campbell was a fucking hack. His ideas are general to the point of meaninglessness, and I will never forgive whoever it was who first used the Golden Bough to ~intellectualize~ Star Wars's simple action movie format and to pretend that it's some Platonic Ideal of what a film is supposed to be as a result. the Star Wars universe has always been incredible one-note in its themes of family, good triumphing over evil, and companionship and camaraderie. there is a real opportunity to take this universe in particular in new directions to explore the political stakes of two under-developed governments vying for power across the stars. you can ask now what is war instead of what is evil and who is redeemable. it's still a big question that you'll be polishing off a lot of old answers for, but it's not such a dull retread of stuff that's already happened in this very franchise.

He was the emperor of the galactic empire and the master of the big guy

>but the original Star Wars didn't tell us anything about where the Empire came from. you're contradicting yourself. on the one hand, you say we just know that evil has to exist, and on the other, you're mad that Rian didn't give us an explanation of what made Snoke bad.

We knew Snoke was bad just like the Emperor in OT. But Snoke didn't exist in a vacuum like the OT. We knew about the OT already. So who or how Snoke came to be would be at least filling the gaps.

Again we didn't need an excessive backstory. We just needed to know how we got from point A to point B. Simple ignoring is either laziness or incompetence.

so who was snoke i didnt see the movie

i know rey parents are 2 random drunks but how does she find that out

I love how they wanted Rey to be the MC but it all backfired and people only care about Kylo now. Disney is so incompetent they can't even get the audience to root for their MC.

the reason you don't get these kinds of shout outs in the new trilogy is because no one actually did world building first and established who's in control and who isn't and how that changes over the trilogy. Snoke became a liability to write an origin for because he's simultaneously the leader of a cultish fanatical group of terrorists (the backstory of the First Order in the first film) that also has the resources to control the galaxy entirely after destroying one star system (the reality of the First Order in the second film). if you can unfuck that story, then you unfuck Snoke's motivations and backstory and can start to hint at them. but JJ had no idea what he was doing and instead of just having the opening title crawl say that the New Republic fell and now has to rebuild, he decided to try to show it in the most unbelievable way possible and by copying the story for ANH, where the groups were reversed.

> there is a real opportunity to take this universe in particular in new directions to explore the political stakes of two under-developed governments vying for power across the stars. you can ask now what is war instead of what is evil and who is redeemable. it's still a big question that you'll be polishing off a lot of old answers for, but it's not such a dull retread of stuff that's already happened in this very franchise.

but that's not Star Wars.

a daring synthesis

You got your rehashed Star Wars in TFA. Time to move on.

Move on to what? Something better? It doesn't seem better. Why is TLJ better?

How SEETHING is JJ right now, guys?

it's not the first three Star Wars films that you watched as a child, no. but it is the PT (even if it was done badly) and a huge chunk of the EU. i fucking swear, nostalgiacucked Gen Xers are why we'll never have a good sci-fi franchise ever emerge again, because it will always have to conform to their golden ideal of children's movies from the '80s. even fucking Star Trek is Star Wars now. i'm glad Rian Johnson punched back against you fucking morons and gave the characters depth. fuck, even George Lucas accidentally made Luke potentially go semi-dark side at the end of RotJ. there's been more complexity here that's gotten smoothed over with time and screeching from people who want to play with action figures and be seven again and then call it "Campbellian" to have morally one-dimensional characters

>And not doing so just shows how little Rian understood about Star Wars itself.

Snoke was a stupid idea, it was JJ Palpatine and him being gone was a good move.

Point is Kylo issues are his own, he did what he id out of his own will, there is still "some" good within him but he is not going to turn and be a nice guy, he made his choices and he made then in this movie ... he killed Han because *he* wanted, wasnt pushed by Snoke as JJ intended and killed Snoke because *he* wanted, its growing out of being a puppet being used by Snoke and Rey to fill their own needs, its just he decided he wanted to take over the First Order instead of "third time is the charm" like Rey wanted.

Choices, not Destiny ... he made them, Rey made them as well.

Personally I perfered that JJ was even less created and ripped dark Empire even more and had Snoke being a Palpatine Clone, he COULD done that, Palpatine had the Clone technology and would work better overall because if anything, Palpatine was a fun guy, always with a smile and laughing ... instead of doing a break in and stealing CGI from LotR, there would be less questions and we wouldnt be here talking about it .

he actually made a decent movie so probably not a lot

No, fuck you, it's not just Rian and JJ. About a hundred plus people have to go through these films before final copy is made and ready for showing. That means every single fucking person involved is to blame.

More than 100 people saw this and went "Yeah, this is awesome! I love the pointlessness, the character assassinations, the shitty plots, the terrible acting and the bad fight sequences! Let's get this to print!"

Well if you want a post-modern star wars, you got it now. Enjoy it with all it's "complexity" and "daring".

But he has to somehow follow up on this mess. Which is impossible unless rey wakes up and TLJ was a dream

Snoke didnt personify shit. It was lame

>a movie that was very milquetoast vs a movie that had some real problems story wise in it
I think they're both making all the "what went wrong?" threads, trying to laugh it off but also gain some insight.

>post-modern
you realize that the mythical texts people pretend are simple morality plays like Star Wars actually have a lot more psychological complexity to them than Star Wars, right? it's not post-modern to just write better, more thoughtful scripts.

this is the only really worrisome thing about this. if Rian was in charge, or a third director was, this could turn into a cool Episode IX. but retconning VIII to punish it for retconning VII is going to make IX completely incomprehensible and stylistically schizophrenic

theres no new info about snoke. Except that he gets cut in half. Rey finds out who her parents are after snokes death kylo says to her
>Do you want me to tell you who your parents are, or do you already know. Maybe you've always known you just buried it
Rey
>....
Kylo
>say it!
Rey
>they were nobody
Kylo
>Worthless scavengers dead in a paupers grave who sold you for drinking money.

something like that, almost word for word but i forget some of the word choice

>psychological complexity

what does this even mean? psychology is barely a science. and you couldn't come up with a solid definition of complexity if you tried.

Honestly you just like it more because it aligns with your world view. And I like the old Star Wars because it aligns with mine. It's that simple.

fuck I forgot that. He cant even just rehash VI since Rian fucked that up too lmao

if they make kylo the mc for the next movie ill forgive them

>even though she can't return

Sometimes I think Sup Forums must be experiment time objectively like Dr Manhattan. How else to explain its inability to tell things happen one after the other not all at the same time in a big jumble?
It was written and filmed BEFORE SHE DIED

But Jesus did come from the bloodline of King David