Reminder

If this bitch had just taken 2 seconds to explain her plan to Poe, then nothing would have happened. Actually think about this sequence of events.

>She refuses to explain the plan
>Poe buys into Fin and Rose's plan because he thinks there is no other plan.
>Fin and Rose go through their stupid Casino Royale adventure and get hacker
>Hacker betrays them
>His betrayal ruins the plan Tumblrina here had and results in the death of hundreds.

She had no reason NOT to tell him and every reason TO tell him. Basically, every death is on her head.

Yes we know already. Just forget about it user. Let it sink in and forget these movies were made.

I'm almost in the acceptance phase, took a day. Let the shit sink in.

finally, another star wars thread

>>Poe buys into Fin and Rose's plan because he thinks there is no other plan.

There literally was no other plan. She came up with the other shit on the fly.

To be fair, it’s also Poe’s fault for not obeying the chain of command and going off the handle for the second time in 30 minutes

Hell, just add a scene where she's confiding that hyperspace tracking has never been proven and the most likely scenario is that they have a mole so everything is need to know.

Not that Poe shouldn't have been included in any need to know activities, he's only the best and most dedicated resistence pilot they have.

See, the problem is not her not telling him, the problem is not justifying that action. The Mole thing would be a perfect justification. The fact that he flew off the handle all the time would be even more reason to handle him carefully.

Hell, all she had to do was say the shuttles were cloaked when he confronted her about them. Thats it. Three words.

Ain't that kind of behavior exactly the same as she described right to his face? She should have expected that he would act on his own

To add to this, why is the fuck is there a moon out in the middle of nowhere? That's not how moons work.

Why does this place even exit? Why didn't they use this base in episode V? The moon itself is both a deus ex machina and gigantic plothole that makes no sense even in canon.

Exactly even a scenario where she just outright tells him "there's a plan, trust in me, but you've proven to me you're not responsible enough for me to tell you."

It would sting for Poe, but it would add some clarity to her actions. The movie takes the stance Poe has until the last moment, that this purple haired bitch doesn't know what's up.... and then ultimately proves it because she didn't divulge enough to the people who could help her.

Everything would have worked far better had the entire crews known "We're heading towards a base, we're not just being chased down until they kill us."

Poe lead to the death of over half is squadron. He was demoted, and demanded information he was no longer qualified to know. McBitchface had no reason to disclose any information to him, especially when he sent two other rebels out to do a dirty mission that ultimately ended up going south.
Poe did some really cool shit but he paid for it. He had some solid character development for it though and was rewarded for it in the end.

>She came up with the other shit on the fly
How do you know that faggot? Did you help write this shit? The only thing she actually came up with on the fly was Jihading herself

you’re wrong, austin

ITT: little man who can’t handle being led by a woman

So you punish the guy for disbeying orders then do nothing to keep him from doing it again and even give him motivation to do it again?

Solid movie logic.

She'd be an attractive cougar if wasn't for her dykey purple hair.

notice the plucky rebellion is shown suicide bombing themselves as an act of courage and bravery, not terrorism and fanaticism.

30 years ago the "heroes" killing themselves to kill the enemy would have been called "Kamakaze" an act reprehensible to Americans in that day and age.

16 years ago the heroes killing themselves to kill the enemy would have been accused of "pulling a 911" and any movie that portrayed it as heroic would have been accused of siding with fanatical jihadists.

But in this day and age the lefty Hollywood lunatics are so determined to befriend the jihadists they make this "pulling a 911" the signature "dramatic" moment of their blockbuster movie.

All it does is make the New Republic look like Fanatical lunatics.

Her character was never fleshed out.

>she served in some battle
>SHE served in THAT battle?

>No longer qualified to know

Fucker, her not telling him lead to a fucking mutiny. Every single fucking person on that ship wanted to know the plan and she didn't tell anyone. The way to handle a loose cannon known for acting on his own is not to cut him out of the loop and belittle him. Either throw him in the fucking brig or tell him enough to stop him from blowing your fucking lead.

Weirdly they actually then go against her actions in the next 15 minutes when Rose stops Fin from suiciding.

>t. low I.Q. soy fueled submissive cuck

This.

What do you mean do nothing? They demoted him and then he Finn and Rose went behind their back. They didn't know, and once they found out Poe started a mutiny. He found out later that they had a solid plan, he just wasn't in the position to know until after he almost fucked it all up.

Women see leadership as absolute unquestioning authority.

That's why they love communists.

>If this bitch had just taken 2 seconds to explain her plan to Poe, then nothing would have happened
I don't get why she didn't, even if Poe got demoted a Captain is still an officer is it not? She probably should've filled him in.

But why not tell him? Why not tell everyone? Couldn't they have been helping get shit ready?

Poe shouldn't have disobeyed a direct order.
Pink hair should have communicated better.
The blame is shared.

In Rogue One they deliberately say that "I'm not a terrorist. I'm a patriot. And resistance is not terrorism."

The jew wants kids to associate with antifa because they're communist and communism is synonymous with judaism.

They even have this nigger that's named "Saw Gerrera" say the line about terrorism.

Saw Gerrera, aka Che Guevara.

It's almost like the jews want to be caught. Isn't there some psychological need for monsters to want to be caught?

Look, I'm not saying she wasn't a bitch, or even a qualified general. But Poe knew he was out of line, he killed over a dozen people including Rose's sister, he was literally the last person who should be disclosed anything, let alone something literally nobody else knows about.

These

Every single rebellion plan is a suicide run.

>Poe single handedly going against star destroys and a dreadnought
>Somehow, despite achieving his goal of disabling everything they thought a bomb run was inappropriate
>Run and run and run until holding up in a base where the entire first order knows where you are is the ultimate plan
>Lightspeed run into their capital ship
>Hold up in the base with a single point of escape, and attack their forces with a handful of ships, telegraphing their position and trajectory with ski's and salt clouds, with inexperienced pilots
>Event he subplot of Finn & Rose, they never would have made it off that ship alive, it was a suicide mission

Every tactic is a fucking suicide mission or at least one accepting of severe casualties. Why did Dern feel so strongly about Poe going a bit rogue? Every plan they ever had would have or did result in just as many deaths.

They did nothing to punish him for disobeying the chain of command. She basically gives him motivation to continue disboeying her and playing it off like she really doesn't have a plan. She does nothing to alleviate these concerns which leads to a full fucking mutiny.

I don't know what world you live in but the leadership in most war scenarios is responsible for keeping their people in line.

The fact she gave him more reason to not only disobey but manage to rally others in mutiny is 100% on her for letting it get that out of hand.

Yes there was even Leah knew of the plan.

If he's such a risk that you can't even tell him anything, why are you not throwing him in the brig?

I'd say the true villain is Leia, because she clearly allows this shit to happen all the time for Poe to be so cavalier and comfortable doing this shit.

>I don't know what world you live in but the leadership in most war scenarios is responsible for keeping their people in line.

Not to women.

To women it just means you must listen to everything they say and never doubt anything or you're a mansplaining chauvinist.

...

>They did nothing to punish him
They demoted him and refused to disclose top secret information to him.

Also, I'm not arguing that Purple hair was a good leader. Poe was not in any position to demand information and he knew this. He then went ahead and sent two rebels out on a suicide mission that ended up going bad too. He made poor choice after poor choice until he realized that the Bitch in charge actually had a good plan.

Because he's Poe fucking Dameron they didn't expect him to do anything.

So the take-home lesson is that women are incompetent and shouldn't be put in positions of leadership?
WTF I love TLJ now.

Fuck off, this has nothing to do with gender politics.

kek this lad is confirmed for not emptying his balls into a chick and pretending it’s a porg tonight

found the kike shill.

>Man known for doing things wasn't expected to do a thing

>Man known for flying a ship is the first on the "Most Likely To Stage A Future Coupe" list
Really gets my noggin joggin

In the military, you obey the lawful orders of your superiors. This isn't a gender politics thing, it's how the military operates.

Idiots prattling along misinterpreting things to drive their own agenda. Even a cursory look could give you some ill informed writing about how episode VIII supports anything from peace to jihad.

Commentary goes any which way you want it to when nobody is present to counter your arguments. Pointing out a single article with an agenda isn't evidence, it's a opinion no more valid than the shitposting that goes on here.

Why wasn't she wearing a uniform?

If it was Ackbar instead of her, Ackbar would have turned the cruiser immediately and rammed it instead of watching 1/2 the transports get blown up. You know it. For an admiral, she is really piss poor at making decisions.

but but muh surprise plot twist reveal

They demoted him for disobeying orders during the bomb attack. They do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING for when he disobeys the chain of command again when she starts demanding answers from the person in charge.

What did she expect the guy who constantly disobeys dfirect orders fro mhigh command to do when he pretty much tells them he sees their plan as a plan of nothing?

Oh gee I don't know just leave hi mto his own devices and do shit behind our back that we didn't want to him to do. Oh no how did we not see this coming?

Idiocy.

A smart leader would have expected this outcome and either set him straight, planned a way to deal with him or just slapped him in the brig to at least consider his problems because clearly demoting him did fuck all.

everyone was incompetent as fuck in TLJ, men and women alike.

>men are to dumb to not mutiny an fuck everything up so you gotta throw them in the brig
agreed

>communism is synonymous with judaism
>jews have the most power in capitalist USA and Israel
what did he mean by this

They did their best to portray it as a heroic last stand and not a suicide attack. I was annoyed because that's not how light speed works. Honestly I don't watch Film Theory but I would be interested to see if it's plausible.

He should have listened to his stronk female masters and SIT the FUCK DOWN crossed his legs and not make eye contact

I wanted to FUCK Laura Dern in this movie.

I completely agree that the bitch general was a poor character. I don't think you'll find anyone who would disagree. Yes she pushed Poe toward acting out but that's simply plot convenience. They made it pretty clear she was a poor general when her crew went and mutinied.

SHE GOT SHIT DONE

>men

Nothing about my argument was gender specific so nice try to bait gender into this like a bunch of other idiots but logic still wins. The leadership was a mess regardless of gender.

i got to FUCK laura dern in this movie

Please tell more.

>If this bitch had just taken 2 seconds to explain her plan to Poe, then nothing would have happened

She's in command, she doesn't have to explain shit to a captain or let him know all of her plans and reasoning.

Poe's job is to follow orders from superiors, he was a fucking retard for starting a mutiny and going against them, especially after the speech leia gave him earlier in the film.

You do what your commanding officer tells you, or get the fuck out of the army. Can you imagine a general having to explain himself and all his ideas to all of his subordinates? Get the fuck outta here

>If this bitch had just taken 2 seconds to explain her plan to Poe, then nothing would have happened.
Are you sure about that? I don't think Poe would have given a single fuck. He wanted to fight. Nothing could convince him otherwise. He should have been arrested after the Dreadnaught incident.

did she say "fuck you [insert user's name]" while you were plowing her?

100% agree but he proved twice in less than 30 minutes that he wasn't going to continue obeying orders and that a third one was coming.

The fact they sat on their asses knowing he was up to something and did nothing tells you a lot more about the leadership. All the best leaders were likely on the bridge and died, leaving the rebels with crappy ones.

Jews use capitalism ironically to mete out their communist ideals
>we need open borders for migrant workers
>we need diversity
>we need increased women's wages
>we need more trans etc.
They sell this all to make money, and money is power. They can't overtly push marxism without being called out, so it must be subversively done under the guise of capitalism. What is the difference between Jewish controlled communist governments and Jewish controlled monopolies? Jewish controlled communist press and Jewish controlled "free press".
Jewish marxism is really a form of Hillelism.

Or they could have used a droid piloted "robot ramship" borrowed from the eu lore.
Look it up on wookiepedia, its a real thing.

>Doesn't have to explain shit
True. Though not doing so ended in her death and the death of nearly everyone in her command so maybe not a great tactical decision.

>Poe's job is to follow orders
Which he has shown he will not do. A competent leader would have addressed this one way or another.

> Do what your commanding officer tells you or get out of the army

They're not in the army. They're in the resistance. Resistances aren't known for stellar command structures.

When leia tells him the full plan he just says "Oh. That could work."

But Poe isn't just an ordinary soldier. He's the best pilot the Rebellion has. He was flying circles around everybody in episode 7, he flew into Starkiller base to blow it up by himself, he took out all the towers on the dreadnought by himself. Even with a demotion, he seems to be a very important guy.

They have to know that he's extremely cocky, talented and loyal to the rebellion to not be in on the plan, especially if he's known to do risky shit. Not telling Poe is a really dumb move by any commanding officer.

>Bombing Run
>Dropping bombs
>Dropping
>In space.

>Finn and ChineseBoxOffice didn't even succeed
I thought they'd succeed at the last second and pink hair would escape without tracking
This movie is a mess.

This character was cringier than the Ice Wolves being total boys with the Rebels. In a movie that needed a commanding presence that Carrie Fisher couldn’t deliver they decided to throw in yet another female except this time she’s way taller than all the guys and has purple hair. She gets a girl power scene with Leia at the end that simultaneously made every SJW wet.

What a if they're gravity bombs?

The Rebels are a terror cell. They are not a military.

You've got some issues you need to sort out

>HURR DUR CHAIN OF COMMAND

Considering how Poe is a Commander/Captain, and was surprised Leia didn't give the top spot to him, it is not at all unreasonable that he expected to be Purple-hair's second in command, or at least in her inner-circle. Her not saying shit to him was DUMB.

The ships have some kind of gravity stabilisers, they could easily shift to give the bombs downwards momentum when they are released from the holders

she is literally a pet kathleen kennedy character to show how strong womyn can be and all men are pigs and it's obvious

> the resistance is so small that they can fit on a single cruiser
> she is a vice admiral
> poe has no idea who she is
> poe is the resistance's best fighter, and head of black squadron
> he would be in officer/leadership briefings. the fucking squadron leaders were all there in ANH, ESB, ROTJ, even Rogue1
> this sets up the "oh she wasn't what i expected" aka hurrr i was expecting a man b/c i'm a sexist man

> holdo is depicted as being on top of her shit
> but she doesn't know who poe is. he's just some "i know men like you. a hotshot pilot looking to shoot something with his gun" hurrr penis metaphor
> pretending that MAYBE it's possible he doesn't know who she is as an subordinate, it contradicts her competency, because she should DEFINITELY know who a) black squadron leader is, b) the squadron leader who blew up starkiller base and c) the fucking guy who just solo'd a dreadnaught only 10 minutes ago

> it's one fucking ship, tell your fucking plan. inspire confidence. what are people going to do? call the first order up? it's obvious to them what your plan is, because they can track you, you are trying to run but can't

> muh stealth shielding on the transports is fucking pants on head retarded because star destroyers have fucking windows. like a shitload of them it seems, and every single one of them would've been blasted out of the sky

> she had to make the heroic sacrifice for no fucking reason. get a fucking droid and send the ship into the supremacy

insult to strong female characters. but everybody will herald her as STRONG & BRAVE

It doesn't matter what Poe thinks. He needs to suck it up and obey his superiors, especially when Leia has literally just finished telling him that exact thing after he got most of their bombing fleet destroyed

Yeah I'm starting to move on too. It took a hole fucking day of being depressed and mad though. Star Wars is dead. I still think I won't be seeing movies for a long time now especially didney.

If chain of command is so important than it's Leia's fault the bombing fleet got blown up, not Poe's. There is no possible negative to Purple bitch telling the other people in the Resistance her plan.

>> this sets up the "oh she wasn't what i expected" aka hurrr i was expecting a man b/c i'm a sexist man

But.. Mon Mothma ran the rebel alliance.

Leia was a major part of it later as the princess of Alderaan and sole survivor.

These doors have been kicked in 40 fucking years ago.

>the Rebel Alliance is surprised when one of its members acts rebellious
I can really feel those neurons firing

Shes a woman hear her roar!

exactly, it also assassinates poe's character too

obviously poe respects leia, it's demonstrated multiple times in both films. so this is knocking his character down to prop up holdo, which is a) bad writing and b) bad agenda driving. it's not even good at the later, it's just hackery

if i was oscar issac i'd be pissed

She had no fucking reason not to tell everyone and anyone aboard the ship.
Literally 5 second speech to the crew "yo we're gonna keep burning fuel until we're close enough to disembark at a nearby abandoned rebel base, carry on".

Absolute piss poor plot device.

They literally refer to them as gravity bombs in the movie. There's really no need to explain the bombs further.

this shit relies on assuming its typical for someone to withhold vital information purely out of spite when there was already a reprimand but only spinster cunts on the job do this

its trying to reaffirm that basic office bitch attitude that comes from a place of dissapointment and bitterness is admirable or heroic instead of immature and counter productive

if women do it good if men do it bad

exactly

efficiency is key, they are being chased, EVERY second counts. tell them you're heading to an old abandoned base and have them have a goal to look forward too, get the transports ready, etc instead of last minute bullshit

also it would be a better storytelling device, because now the audience knows there's a finish line and will they make it in once piece?! as opposed to this stupid planet showing up at the 11th hour in some deus ex machina shit for some convenient shit

>If chain of command is so important than it's Leia's fault the bombing fleet got blown up, not Poe's.

Poe disobeyed orders so it's his fault, but yes Leia is at fault too for letting somebody so untrustworthy raise so high in her ranks

>There is no possible negative to Purple bitch telling the other people in the Resistance her plan.

Unless of course there's a first order mole or potential traitor in her ranks, revealing your battle strategy to your entire army really isn't a smart idea in war

But why?

But why what? So they can be used to bomb starships in space

The movie never sets up the idea or possibility of a mole. Stop shilling.

poe is canonically their best pilot and commands respect amongst his fellow pilots, as well as command since leia is the one who put him on the secret mission in TFA to retrieve the map of luke

he has every right to know because they are down to one squadron of ships left

It would be nice if the writers for this movie introduced the possibility of a mole on the ship.

Was ramming Snoke's ship even Haldo's original plan? She doesn't even start to turn the ship until half the transports are lost.

I don't think anyone is condoning poe disobeying orders. he fucked up but we also see he's going to keep doing it when we're 30 mins in and he already does it twice. if I can learn and predict this fucker in only 30 minutes, that Airhead of a leader should have been able to.

Poe is wrong as fuck for what he did, but the buck stops at leadership when they fail to deal with a known problem.

Yep.
God damnit. I really was hoping I wasn't going to walk away from this movie tearing it to pieces the weekend after viewing. I enjoyed it but had my niggles, and those niggle are growing larger and larger with every discussion and lookback I take part in and make.

I'm not sure whats worse now, that JJ is back in the directors seat for 9, or that he's going to be using Rian's finished script.

>sh-shill

Is that all you have?

In the real world, you don't get generals shouting out their entire battle strategy to the army either.

Battle strategies, especially ones that include tricking the enemy, are on a need to know basis. Poe did not need to know, he should have followed orders like a good little fly boy.

Holdo's mistake was not having Poe locked up or knocked out until the plan was carried out. She has no obligation to explain herself to that asshat

leadership should also know the pulse of the troops at the time. when their support ships are being taken out one by one, and the situation is dire she should've fucking informed them or made a speech or something

poe's mutiny wasn't a one-man, he had support, it shows she was shitty at her job. she let moral drop to a low enough point for him to get mutiny supporters

Reminder Poe wasnt the only one in on the mutiny

Nobody is arguing the stand in general was competent.

no it just shows that these people don't actually thin ahead like the movie writing keeps saying they are able to do.

we were made to think they had no plan only to deus ex machina one "they knew was happening all along" and her main idea was to just keep driving the ship straight until they blew her up? I mean fuck she could have just set the autopilot.

No they planted her purposely on that ship exactly for that plotwist so she could then turn the ship and ram them.

it's really bad writing

Well, she is Vice Admiral. It's possible she's played the game long enough to attain high rank like that while actually being a lackluster leader and therefor never being given full command.